All Comments (93)

I cannot believe the hollow rhetoric and misuse of historical quotes from Charles Colson in light of the facts both past and present! This was a baseless intervention by the present adminitration that has caused immense human suffering and no political spin and twisted nationalistic theology from evangelical advocates will tell other wise.

Mr Colson, it's worries me that in your judgement you contributed to this chaos that has destroyed many innocent lives both Iraqis and Americans. You had the bad judgement before the war and I wonder where your commitment stands. Is it with God or with America. Considering the fact that God wants these Iraqis to know Jesus Christ. Should these innocent people be killed for America's glory. I think the Christian thing to do is to repent of this gravious and ungodly thing you did to encourage the president to go to war. I am very dissappointed in you and the other Christian leaders who encouraged the president to go to war.

Am I miss something here? Mr. Colson, based on false information, declared the last war 'just' and help dupe millions of Americans into supporting what was and is an unjust war based on lies. Now he is again allowed to interpret 'just war theories' for the public. Do the hundreds of thousands of innocent lives lost in Iraq get to speak? When does a messenger who has has so tragically misled people become discredited.

While I agree that their is a moral obligation to the iraqi people, I disagree that it rests on the American people. Christians in American and elsewhere should rise up and do whatever is neccessary to fulfill that obligation be it humanitarian or otherwise. If military action is as necessary as the hawks feel it will be after withdraw, charities can also fund protection services, similar to Ross Perot's handling of the kidnapped employees.

Remember to call your congress(wo)men, senators to DEFUND THE IRAQ WAR AND DEFUND ISRAEL, THE SOURCE OF PAST(since 1947), CURRENT(Iraq war, Afghanistan war, and the War on Terror), AND FUTURE WARS(Wars with Iran and Syria and beyond--two carrier battle groups in the Persian Gulf to "pressure" Iran) IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

Call REPEATEDLY and DAILY. It bugs the hell out of them and it works.

i couldn't agree with you more mr. colson. as for the rest of these people, there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

To Clay Workman,
You say Bush did right to take our fight against Al-Quada to an uninvolved country? I don't know how you would feel if 2 alien groups started laying waste to your home, your country, your friends, your family, but I know how I would feel.

Do you have no sense of fairness? Shame, sir! You cannot use self-defense as a justification in this case, sir.

It seems those that post don't have much of an argument against what Mr. Colson wrote. What keeps coming up is they don't like Bush, don't understand the situation, haven't looked into what has been found in Iraq, and that we are fighting terrorists there, rather than here. The point is, we cannot give up. The question of a just war was not brushed aside, it was answered. Our ancestors who fought in previous wars of these United States, I think, would be ashamed of the public sentiment to give up against those that have stated plainly that they want to annihilate us. John Adams when referring to the barbary pirates (muslim terrorists)said if we decide to fight them we must fight endeavor to fight them forever. Do you think he would be for giving up now? Thomas Jefferson used the navy that Adams built to defeat them. It is time to defeat them again, regardless of whether they are in Iraq. Better to fight them there than here.

TOO MANY DOTS....TOO COMPLEX !!

"WAR" IS ALWAYS A DETERRENT FROM WHAT WE
SHOULD FOCUS ON: "ORGANIZED CRIME "!!

Politics and organized crime and corporate culture all go hand in hand – anything that produces profits is of interest to politicians. The last in line for government help are “the average people” even thought they are the backbone of all three group’s profits.

To several of us, the continued conflict between Israel
and Palestine, does have a great deal to do with all
that is going on in the entire Middle East.

When it comes to any sence of fairness in dealing
with the Present US administration, anyone can look
at our total support for Israel and see we have no
sence of fair dealings.

You look at Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Iran, Syria,Iraq
and UN resolutions. As an Arab nation, how would
you find any TRUST in negotations with the USA,
looking at the history of 60 years of blind support
for ONLY Israel.

IF the USA would be "FAIR" in looking at both sides
of the coin. We just might start regaining some of
our own standing in the WORLD arena.

We want to see Israel to continue to be, to be secure, to be at PEACE. HOW-EVER, if we continue with such
policy it is leading to destruction for Israel's security
in the long run.

Horrific acts of violence and deadly attacks on innocent people, carried out by the Israeli military.
In defiance of the American people's wishes,and the World in general, when push comes to shove the U.S. government manages to support a hostile Jewish State. The message is also delivered from the pulpit with vigor, When in reality Israel is against christianity.Worse yet, through their greed for money, we have sold or gifted this hostile nation, (Nuclear, Biological and Chemical) weapons with the missiles to deliver them. These weapons now threaten the world.

The total Iraqi people are dismayed, will not come together, because none of the three sectarian groups have what they would consider a binding relationship with the USA. They realize we have Israel's interest at heart with any dealings there. They all now see us as occupying their nation, as Israelis to Palestine. They think or most likely know, that we are there for Israeli interest, more than our own or for Iraq's true interest.At this juncture we the American people realize exactly the same scenario. Just look at the agenda, & rethoric for the last six years.

Look how the USA has equipped Israeli military better than our own reserve & national guard units.

NO matter what rethoric our government states,the facts are before us all , IF you take the time to research it.

FOREIGN POLICY SHOULD BE BASED ON GOOD LOGIC AND JUDGEMENT, NOT FAITH BASED !!

To be "MORE-CLEAR" how about a little Integrity and Ethics..

NO PEACE IN PALESTINE, NO PEACE IN THE WORLD:

British Prime Minister Tony Blair realizes there is no hope in defeating "Forces of Extremism" with out

resolving the Palestinian--Israeli conflict.The disastrous Iraqi quadmire is connected with Palestinian issues.

We have been saying for years that Palestine-Israeli conflict is the root cause of instability, turbulence, and violence in the Middle East and throughout much of the Muslim world.

We know and George Bush knows all too well that the American occupation of Iraq was conceived in Israel , carried out for Israel ’s sake and is now maintained more or less under pressure by pro-Israeli pressure groups in the United States .
Ehud Olmert, the Israeli Prime Minister, warned Bush during his recent visit to Washington against pulling out of Iraq ?

The "FAILURE" of JFK & RFK"S war on organized crime
and drugs. It all ended with their assassinations,then
escalation of the Viet Nam war as a deterrent.
Now more of the DOTS are connected, right back to
the Kennedy assassinations, Meyer Lanski, Las Vegas
and more. Don 't forget the gain in Media Control and
the development of AIPAC in American government,
a Foreign Agent.
The most important key to Criminal Empire America: It’s the extensiveness of the people that can be called upon, each to do his or her small part in a complex operation, that gives the super braintrust operators of the most tremendous rackets in the world (like rigging the U.S. presidency) their power and this tiny group and even single individual has doubled or tripled their octopus tentacles.
We are headed for bigger problems, check out the
organized crime organizations in Mexico, Canada,
and of course the USA. (Now a North America strong hold)
Look at the Russian(Jewish) & China organizations
.....Now connect the dots dirrectly to AIPAC,
ISRAEL, and Mossad (The enforcers) assassinators.
We certainly are up against it.
We can call it (Zionist organized crime).
All forms of racketeering from Drugs, Gambling,
Chain economy, World Trade, and saddly the collection
plates in their worshipped tax free buildings and holdings.
Now, go back to Denial. It is to late to open your eyes
anyhow...................too many dots, too complex..

How many people remember Saddam Hussien telling his government that he had weapons of mass destruction and then later they found out that he didn't have any at all. Saddam Hussein deceived his government and the world about his weapons. If He didn't have any, why did he say that he did?

Mr. Colson:
No war is a just war, and the war on Iraq was a religious war. Religious wars by nature are based on a fundamentalist reading of religious teachings and scripture. Religious readings, left or right, have the potential of unforeseen disasters. If by the belief of any of the main Middle Eastern religions human beings are the children of God, or the representative (khalifah) of The God, or image of The God on earth, then their collective thought should carry the weight of the word of The God. If The God created everything through evolution, then the evolution of human being towards a God-like creature must also be evolutionary. If this is acceptable, then collective achievements of human being must be respected as The Gods words. If so secular wisdom should always be preferred over the one based on ideology.

Actions based on any single ideology, religious or otherwise, have not served the best interest of human beings at any time. Let us walk through the history of recent ideological wars. We can leave out the obvious extremes like the World War II and Vietnam War. Let us start with the occupation of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union and the response of United States under President Carter, a well-respected democrat, a Christian Evangelist, and according to Bill Press, a speechwriter of President Clinton, of the Christian left.

Although most people including myself, have no doubt about the good intentions of President Carter, yet the result of his policy of creating an Islamic Green-Belt (the strategy of Zbigniew Brzezinski, the National Security Adviser of President Carter) around the Soviet Union, was the creation of a number of strongly fundamentalist states plus an international network of horror, named after Islam. This was the result of a strategic(??!) planning based on ideology, the blow back of which was 9/11.

The next ideological planner comes from Christian right surrounded by NeoCons and the Israeli lobby group. The result of this is Afghanistan, Iraq, and what may come next. A point of pride of President Bush is that he had met with the former Israeli Prime minister 17 times and not with representative of Palestinians even once. He brought Iran among the axes of evil, while Iran had helped him to succeed initially in Afghanistan. Iranians elected Ahmadinejad, as an antidote for Bush.

Extremism breeds extremism. If America claims to be “The Only Superpower”, then she better act like a superpower not a warlord. A superpower cannot disobey the UN and stage a “preemptive” war over a nation half of the world away from her territories and expect the others to respect either her or the United Nation in which she has the veto power. The US administration has demonstrated that the “New World Order” is nothing but a “Broken Order”, courtesy of a Born Again Christian and his ideological allies.

A new order is needed based on the collective wisdom of human beings not from “higher father”. Religious governments have shown to be prone to prejudice and inflexibility. You cannot negotiate for a land that is a “God-Given” to a nation, nor you can negotiate for the life of a man or a woman who is declared blasphemous by a fatwa.

Garry Holmberg,

I agree with ALL of your points and your sentiment, but to merely blame Bush for the current mess in Iraq would be like blaming the bear for mauling while ignoring the handler who TRAINED the bear to maul. The handler of course is AIPAC. If you are wondering what has happened to the American decency of old, that began to disappear in the late sixties as AIPAC began to exert its influence in America, the time of the 1967 Arab-Israeli Six Day War and seriously so from the Reagan era.

As mentioned previously, Professors Walt and Mearsheimer of Harvard and U of Chicago has published a new book, "The Israel Lobby and the U.S. Foreign Policy"(2006) available for free in pdf working paper version at cnionline.org under New Study of Israel Lobby. It's 81 pages long, but half of it is bibliography.

Yes, Bush was an eager political bear who saw the neocons as a useful ally, placing them into positions of high power as never before. Former Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, now president of World Bank, is considered the architect of the Iraq War for instance. Yet Wolfowitz is merely one of many agents of AIPAC in government albeit a high profile one.

AIPAC has turned into a juggernaut of sorts seemingly crushing or threatening to cruch anyone or anything that stands in its way with no remorse and often with much glee. Of course, AIPAC is a house of cards. Once people realize that its power comes from disinformation, it will scatter like so many cockroaches in the light of truth. As a conservative evangelical Christian and a FORMER neocon, I am an optimist as conservatives often are.

I am beginning to be quite disappointed with current evangelical leaders however. I could care less about Pastor Ted Haggard(head of National Evangelical Association accused of having trysts with a gay masseuse); what happened with him affects him and his church and I guess embarrassment to some Christians. Christians are not saints, just forgiven sinners. But having orthodox Jews as bedfellows is a serious problem that not only affects Christians, but the world at large, because America is 40% evangelical.

Part of the problem is the anti-intellectual tendency of the Pentecostal movement which swept through the U.S. Churches and is just beginning to wane. It is the Pentecostal idea to believe in the necessity of the state of Israel for the second coming of Christ. This is NEW and STRANGE theology in the history of Christianity not espoused by the early church father nor the Protestant Reformers.

Being an optimist, I am seeing signs of a quiet revolution in American evangelicalism. The nation's largest flagship evangelical seminary, the Southern Baptist Seminary has a faculty that is 96% Reformed(Calvinist) since 1993 ("Young, Restless, Reformed" christianitytoday.com 9/22/06). Reformed theology DOES NOT see the laughable necessity of the state of Israel for the second coming of Christ, a tenet of Pentecostalism Israel boosters were more than eager to harness and encourage through careful liasons. Southern Baptist Convention's International Missions Board has a year ago barred its missionary candidates from teaching and promoting "speaking in tongues" or glossolalia, one of the hallmarks of Pentecostalism ("Tongues Tied" christianitytoday.com 2/1/06). Banning glossolalia is not important in and of itself, but it shows the Reformed movement's ascendant influence and reach. Other than the manic support for the state of Israel, I have no other bones to pick with the Pentecostal Movement. People are free to worship God and live for Christ as they see fit.

Sorry to bore non-Christians with the inner working of the church, but the belly of the American evangelical church is undergoing reconstruction. Granted, many Reformed evangelicals are neoconservatives. They are under the same influence of the AIPAC censored U.S. media as the rest of America. Plus, Christians are subject to heavy propagandizing by the pro-Israel Jewish hardliners like the conservative Jewish radio talk show host Dennis Prager. And just notice how many pro-Israel Christian TV shows there are. As a result, Israel is seen as good friend and that its national interests are identical to America's. Zionists among the Jewish community has long ago recognized the importance of the evangelical Christian support for its cause.

However, it only took the raining down of cluster bombs in Lebanon last August, a country 40% Christian with a democratically elected pro-West, pro-American government killing over a thousand civilians and killing and maiming people every day since the war “ended”, and a chance viewing of CSPAN presentation of Walt and Mearsheimer's Israel Lobby book to make me a FORMER neocon. I am hoping I am not the only evangelical who has opened his eyes to the reality of AIPAC. I am doing my best to make sure that is not the case. This is certainly an easy case to make to fellow evangelical Christians who are beginning to question the justification and value of the Iraq War and beginning to have doubts about the evangelical leadership who have been asleep at the helm.

Remember to call your congress(wo)men, senators to DEFUND THE IRAQ WAR AND DEFUND ISRAEL, THE SOURCE OF PAST, CURRENT, AND FUTURE WARS IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

I simply don't have time to explain to you all the reasons why you are wrong, many others have already done that in extensive detail.

Sadly, if you really believe what you wrote, you had best look inward and ask yourself some very tough questions about your motivations, because it certainly was not to present a well informed and objective assessment of the issues surrounding the Iraq war.

A war which regardless of platitudes was unnecessary and will be the biggest debacle in US history--there is simply no way at this point to make this very bad decision right.

To make matters far worse the course of this war has been littered with unconstitutional actions by the President and the Vice President; prisoner abuses were perpetrated by Americans on detainees in a manner that is outlawed by the Geneva Convention; and a President and Republican Congress nearly passed a law invalidating the Geneva Convention just to cite two.

These are not the American values I was raised on by parents, uncles, and aunts who survived WWII. These are not the American values that root for the underdog, where actions speak louder than words, and where a man's word is his bond. No, this President and his Vice President do not represent men of their word to the Amercian people and they certainly are not seeking to spread democracy, for if they are they are really bad at it.

No, I am sorry, you simply could not be more wrong about the Iraq war, and even worse you apparently are completely oblivious to all the unAmerican and unconstitutional acts that have been committed by this President and his administration. Even now when more than 70% of the American people want the President to bring the troops home he has decided again that we should send more. The President was handed a report that outlined how to best proceed at this point and he has chosen to ignore it and the American people. I hate to say it but this President may become more infamous than Nixon, and I never thought I would ever see that kind of Presdential abuse and deceit against the American people again in my lifetime.

I believe this point in history will be analyzed for decades to determine how a President gone so astray could get away with it. Where were the checks and balances?

Chucky boy you are so lost that I doubt that you can be found. How can a so called Christian believe any form of killing could be just? I take it back. The Iraq war was just, just ridiculous, just unchristian, just unjustified, and just deadly for women and children. Are you the same Chuck that went to jail for breaking the law during the Nixon administration? Why did they not just keep you in there? Just remember a few things Chucky. Just remember that God commanded us not to kill. Just remember that God commanded you to treat your neighbor as you would treat yourself. Just remember that God commanded you to place no God before him. God did not give Moses a wish list, God sent commands. Just remember that America is not a greater God then our precious leader. And finally Chucky boy remember the punishment for guys just like you who know better and choose to ignore the word of God.

Posted on January 12, 2007 20:26

>>Warp10:

Why do CONSERVATIVE Christians have a heart of stone for the massive suffering and devastation done to Iraq... not to mention the support for Bush's torture policies which have caught up a number of innocents in your nets.

Because they are nothing more than ANTI-CHRISTIANS. They believe in the barbarian ancient mythologies of the old testament, which in their twisted minds justifies all kinds of violence against outsiders. They don't give a d**** s**t about the preachings of Jesus.

IOM IR ET GL

Couldn't the Post find anyone who could argue the point in a more logical way? "Chuck" even gets the basics all wrong. What happens in Iraq has little to do with Israel vis a vis Iran. The United States presence in Iraq, if anything, allows Iran to develop nuclear weapons much faster than it otherwise would have, because the United States can not offer any credible conventional detterence while we are bogged down in Baghdad. Furthermore, Iran's conventional millitary is no match for Israel, which has numerous nuclear weapons of its own if its existence is ever truly put into question...

As for the point about a responisbility to the Iraqi people... Maybe we do have a responsibility in general... but to which ones, the shia who are busy slaughtering and revenging themselves against the sunnis, or the sunnis that are blowing themselves up left and right to kill Shia? When the vast majority has choosen sides and is in effect complicit in the violence, no side is really worth dying for. After all, remember the bible story of sodom, God didn't try to fix Sodom for Lot. He helped him get out and only then if no one looked back. We showed the Iraqis the way, we don't have to help them walk it.

"Chuck" is kind of like a Toddler blurting out the random thoughts of an immature mind, content to thump his bible pretending it is a drum, extolling highly questionable passages of the bible to support the aftermath of a war no true christian would have supported to begin with... After all, anyone can quote verse. "Thou shall not kill," and "Turn the other cheek"... are the ones I would have choosen and are far more relevant to the current situation then the cursing of enemies... But I would like to end with my favorite bit of scripture which doubles as advice for the Post and "Chuck": "give Unto Ceasar that which is Caesar's"...The founding fathers in their infinite wisdom decided to keep religion and politics seperate for a very good reason. Religion has a way of giving false legitamacy and weight to otherwise rediculous people.

Is this for real? I mean honestly, Augustinian and Thomas More? The fact that there were no WMD made it and no real threat whatsoever "a close call"??

What's happening to you America? You fought the Nazis, won the cold war, and now you're afraid of your own shadow. Saddam was no threat, Al-Qaeda is not threatening civilization. What happened to "We have nothing to fear but fear itself" and "Our problems are man made, therefore they can be solved by man"? Now you're whipped into a frenzy of xenophobia and religious self righteousness by "Chuck" quoting 10th century concepts of justice, musing about the morality of continuing an unjust war because it will make America look bad (oh, and Israel will be destroyed as well).

Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio?

Mr.Colson,

When someone makes a reasonable argument, backed by defensible facts or even well thought out opinions, it justifies a thorough response. Your article doesn't qualify, but somehow I cannot help from making a few comments.

If you are for continuing this war, have the intellectual honesty to just say it is what you believe and do not hide behind a theory as your "formulation". Additionally, have the guts to recognize the impact of your position on the commitments between OUR government and OUR citizens. If this is such an important struggle, suggest the necessary commitments we as a country will need to make, such as increased taxes, the potential for significant expansion of our military through a draft, the risk that in order to be successful in the end we will have to aggressively convert to an economy that is not reliant on oil.

If your suggestion were simply that of "doubling down" that would be one thing. Because of the situation we are now in, we are unfortunately left with some sort of withdrawl plan or a MASSIVE commitment to war. What is likely to happen is the president's cowardly sending of insufficient troops while the president weighs political considerations.

miss information:

repent (by your definition) or go to hell?
we're already in hell. proof? having to share intellecual space with idiots like you.

i, for one, detest the pathetically unconditional support for Israel my country is being forced to provide. i am equally sick of the "moral"-fascist religious right.

there are still free thinkers here in the US. we WILL rise up, and woe unto the lunatic fringe when we do. hopefully, this will be sooner rather than later, for MY America, and that of the Framers, is in dire need of rescue.

Mr. Colson, I could not disagree with your arguments more.
1.) This war was not about the Iraqi people, nor did they ask us to invade. This war was based on lies, deceit and arrogance.
2.) This war was about Oil, Israel and partisian ideology, which had absolutely nothing to do with terrorism, 9/11, WMD's or humanitarism.
3.) There is nothing MORAL about this war and Bush's continuance of violence against innocent men, women and children.

Vulcan_7:, wow! You really can be pretty harsh can you not? I know that you are an attenuated product of your own environment, and that they have probed your mind with false pretenses and psych-ops, the 4 year-old for example, but they know nothing of your real struggle against Lucifer at Mount Olive that very day. No, that truth is beyond their eyes and machinations. Rest and be still for now....I do believe that God Loves you.

Where's my gun?

Mr. Colson,

While I do appreciate your sentiments and I believe you are correct in that we can't leave Iraq in total chaos, as it would further diminish America's credibility (which the Bush administration has effectively destroyed,) I can't accept our continuing shaky occupation as a moral imperative. Foreign policy should be based on pragmatism first and morals second.

The whole war, illegal as it is, has been bungled from the start from an incompetent administration that failed to properly occupy either Afganistan or Iraq. For God's sake, the ancient Romans knew how to do it, and they didn't have guns. How did we get it so wrong? (Somone should have given Rumsfeld a copy of Machiavelli's "The Prince" before he sent our troops charging into Iraq under false pretenses.)

So, while I agree we just can't leave now, we should do so for pragmatic reasons (stabilize the middle east, keep Iran in check, extract the oil that the American people are owed for this fiasco,) not moral reasons.

The only pragmatic thing to do, besides total and brutal occupation, is find a political solution, first by getting rid of the useless Nuri al-Maliki.

The moral thing to do is prosecute the liars in the White House who dragged the world into this mess.

How many hands we need in Iraq now?
If one our soldier handed two Iraqi people to lead them to security, no soldier had free hand to fight our enemey; if one soldier handed one civil person and fought by another hand, the free handed Iraqi might turn to be our ememey with the chance of exact number of our hurts.

Last one. Not wanting to spam. Probably Egypt, Syria, Arabia Saudi and Iran were more involved in a regional solution leaving them alone. Arab vs. Persian and Sunni vs. Shiite conflicts are deeply present there, of course. But I see little probabilities of a large scale conflict while the neccesary people was leading there. The real danger was an unconcious 'democracy push' opening new ways to extremism.

The Iraqi conflict was only Iraqi (muslim better) being the USA out of Iraq. It was clearly visible for fellows and foe.

WWII was near a perfect 'just war'. It is probably the last such a war until now.

Wouldn't getting OUT of Iraq give Al Qaeda one LESS thing to fight about??? Or, do you think they will be like the USA after WWII in thinking they can rule the world??

Excuse me, sir:

Agustinian notions of 'just war'. 'Last step' like an enough objective concept not meaning the subjective limits of any person able to make a war. Just war implies objectivity enough. Just what the war on Iraq is not showing.

Only among the miserable cretins known as Americans will you find such a thing as a pro-war christian.

This guy has no right to tell us anything about morals. He aint got any. Must think he is born again. You can run, and you can hide, but you are who you. Still and evil genius.

I fear that if the United States and Israel keep going down this road...all by themslves..that we may not have an Israel in 40 years..I also fear that if the US or Israel attacks Iran, that Iran will retaliate and kill thousands of American Jews whom call Tel-Aviv home..further, Iran will definitely fight back and destroy as much of the Oil as possible in the Middle East creating a new Oil crisis and crashing the US economy..the idea that the US can stop that is nutz!..Iran is not the backwater you all believe..it is not Iraq and it's population and land size is 3 times that of Iraq and much more educated..further, you have an additional 2 or 3 million Iranians living all over the world..They will not be happy watching their countrymen die..Remember, the bombings in London were over the Iraq War - not Al-Qaida!..Frankly, AlQaida is just a tiny part of the war...we need some educated brains in the White House and Please for crying out loud.... Hire some Leaders who did not flunk out of college and did better than a C- average...and whom do not lie about what they are reading all the time.. They should have read these books in college...Bush knows less about the Middle East than does my 85 year old mother. She told me what the failures would be back in the Fall of 2003..So far, she has been right on the money..Speaking of money, what happened to all the Billions given to Haliburton with no bid contracts?..Can't wait for those Congressional hearings..It seems a lot of people made a lot of money from this war and then got a huge tax break on top of that..So far the biggest winners in this war are..Exxon, Shell, BP, Chevron, A Oil Co.,B Oil Co., C Oil Co., D Oil Co.. No body got richer than they and their top Oil Company executives..$400 million retirement packages while they lay off the workers who kids are fighting in Mr Bush's and Mr. Cheney's War...It was all over Oil..and the Israeli's might yet become its victim....Meanwhile, the United States has our great Middle Eastern Democracies to help us..Oh that's right!!..all of our allies are either Kings, Dictators, Generals, Grand Muffti's, Seiks, Emir's not an elected one among them..Making a foolish mockery about spreading democracy..I see Condi lost her democracy voice again on this latest pathetic, almost laughable road show.. As for Mr. Colson..He was wrong during the Nixon administration and he is still wrong.. What did I just say about failed Leaders..and in this case a former felon...He has chosen the easiest way out..to preach to a bunch of captives many willing to do or say anything to get out earlier..To be honest..I think Mr. Colson is right where he belongs..preaching to his criminals..

Known within the Nixon administration as the "evil genius," special counsel Charles W. Colson served seven months in prison in 1974 after pleading guilty to obstruction of justice in the Watergate-related Daniel Ellsberg case. Colson's more notorious ideas, according to some reports, included spreading false information about Ellsberg and firebombing the Brookings Institution. He was also indicted for his role in the Watergate cover-up

JAIL BIRD

What do you know about morals????

This paragraph is just pure lunacy:

As we consider the Christian perspective on our present dilemma, we are compelled to weigh heavily the fate of Israel. Christians have a great respect for the people of the old covenant, and are constantly reminded of God’s words to the Jews in His covenant with Abraham, "I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse." (Genesis 12:3).

To make policy on the basis of a 5000 year old text makes no sense whatsoever. Should we base our policy toward modern Greece on the Iliad?

This is exactly why the founders were so wise to create a system of government that does not concern itself with the ideas of any given religion.

Your read this and it's easy to see why Mr. Colson never saw the harm to the constitution in Watergate.

B Gone, I don't pop up in these forums too often, but its already tiring to read the same thing from the same person over and over and over, regardless of the subject introduced. The silly hoaxbuster site, run not by an objective observer but by a person with an obvious agenda, full of stuff that even I can see if factually incorrect and bluffery even without much training at all, doesn't need to be metioned for the umpteenth time. Let the guy who runs it have a public debate with some knowledagbe types and we'll see what happens. His documentation on Amenophis (1800 BC) I am sure is one thousandth or less than the documents of scripture, which are documented far older than his web site cares to admit. How about instead we address the subject du jour, (this is written to the flamethrowers out there, not the few who are actually attempting dialogue) instead of tossing fireballs at Mr Colson? I don't agree with what he did in the 1970s, either. He deserved jail, and he went. Since then he's won a pile of humanitarian awards, better than me or a bunch of other people. The question of the day isn't whether Chuck Colson is a jerk, it's whether we have a more moral case to stay in Iraq or leave. Were we right to leave Korea? My Korean college roommate didn't think so, and my current Korean friends pity the plight of the people of North Korea today. Seems like there are parallels. Mr. Colson pointed out the parallels with the carving up of eastern Europe after WWII. These are relevant. Yes, pulling out would save innocent lives of US soliders. But what would happen in the vacuum between the three or more factions? Cayambe made a few suggestions, but I am not qualified to know if they would work. But dialogue on these particulars would be better than screaming at each other, no?

We are doing as we preach. At least, much more than anyone is willing to give us credit for. But that is the point, we have never preached that all Christians should go to Iraq, but rather, our nation is fully authorized to wage "just" war. We preach that faulty though it was, the intel showed that Sadam was an immediate threat in violation of UN resolutions. Once we discovered there were no weapons to discover, we preached it was wrong to pull out and leave anarchy. Watch for nuance and you might surprise yourself with the profound consistency of word and deed. Ignore the nuance and...well...that would be ignorant wouldn't it.

If you feel so strongly about this you should --without delay-- go to Iraq and stay there until the problem is solved. This applies to all the like-minded so called Christians who follow your advice. Do as you preach.

Be careful what you wish for. Can't accept 700 American GIs killed each year ? Impeach Bush and get Cheney. Impeach Cheney ? get Pelosi or worst Cheney's new VP. Withdraw from Iraq ? get Al Qieda bases in Anbar. Withdraw from Iraq ? maybe massive civil war that kills far more then 34,000 Iraqi killed in 2006 (UN estimate) Maybe a half-a-million dead or more ? Withdraw and get maybe four hostile mini-States ? Increased Saudi funding of Sunni militants ? Iranian or Turkish invasion ? President Muqtada al-Sadr ? Withdraw and Israel nukes Iran ? Withdraw and maybe Britian and Canada will find little reason to stay in Afghanistan ? Withdraw from Iraq and we will all become Spanish surrender monkeys... until of course... a victorious and strengthened terrorist network (Al Qieda ? Hizzbolah ? ) delivers what it has long promised the Great Satan... that Shia nuke to New York harbor. Be careful what you wish for.

Jimmy, read your Bible again. It does not say, thou shalt not kill, but rather, thou shalt not commit murder. Capital punishment is considered righteous in the Bible. It was also righteous for God to command the Israelites to completely annihilate the Canaanites who were consistently involved with child/human sacrifice. It was also righteous for God to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. If we today were to be aware of a society that was like either of those, which we are not (Gibson's Apocalypto comes close) we would be appalled. Both of those societies made Hitler's Germany and Mao's China look good. Furthermore, the reason why the Bible outlaws slavery among jews was because they were to be a holy nation. He was teaching the world what holiness would look like. The Bible of course records the fact that they never really measured up to that holiness. Slavery arises from sin. Sin enslaves all of us. To the extent that we are sinful, we find ourselves enslaved by others. Which is the point of slavery in the Bible: The Israelites were to live holy and as such not be enslaved. However, if you read carefully (watch for nuance) you will note that God assured the Israelites that if they rejected His commands they too would be enslaved. As history bears out, God was right about this. The Israelites sinned and rejected God and they became slaves in Babylon and Assyria. It is also true about any Christian nation, when they sin, they will be enslaved by their enemies. Sin enslaves. We could set the whole world free and give them civil rights but if we choose to sin we will still be enslaved. When the New TEstament told slaves to stay in the condition they found themselves, it was teaching them to live free from sin, knowing that if they chose righteousness, the slavery would eventually fall away. This is exactly the struggle we see in Iraq, we might set them free, but are they able or interested in keeping that freedom? Sin is an idea that deserves our full attention. It enslaves all of us. It destroys human society. It is found in Jewish nations, Christian nations, Islamic nations and atheistic nations. AS a result we all find ourselves drowning in a moral debt to sin. We fight over whether George Bush should have done better or whether Stalin was just misunderstood or whether the UN can bring peace to the world. In fact, we fight because we all know that neither you nor I have what it takes to bring change. My influence is limited by my own moral failures. So is yours. So is George Bush' and Sadam's. It's part of the reason why we are all so cynical these days. We know that all the promises that are made by humans are fluff. They are arrogant. Christians promise that God alone can bring change through Jesus Christ. However, they NEVER promise that Christians will bring peace on earth. They only believe that can happen through a sovereign act of God through Jesus' return. On the other hand, humanists and atheists would like you and I to think that we can change the world through our own efforts through the UN. Even though the UN consistently shows as much fraud as any human leadership institution throughout history. So, who is full of greater naivete' the Christian's hope in a returning Messiah or the Humanist's hope in mankind's evolutionary self transformation? I sense a cynical revulsion toward believing the promises of more humans. AT the least, we must all agree that humanity does not have it in us to make the necessary changes. Who has the moral authority that we should trust them? There is no one with that kind of moral authority. Certainly, not you and I.

What part of "Thou shalt not kill" does this christian minster not understans. How can any human being defend the APARTHEID STATE OF israel.
He pretends to be compasionate about iraqi civilians - over 600 thousand of them killed -.
What a disgrace, you make any human being sick.

It's always so refreshing to get a lesson in moral instruction from one of Richard Nixon's main hatchet men. You say time has passed and you're not the same weasel you were 30-odd years ago, Charles? Tell that to the countless people who still suffer from the harm inflicted by you and your slimy gang of liars and thieves.

Jacob:
I watched your film. Thanks for clearing things up at the nitty gritty detail level. And giving just cause to the question posed to the panel which was, ah, just a minute I'll think of it, ah, yeah! That's it. Just cause.

I take it you're not in favor, (film can be taken more than one way) of a sudden or soon end to the world. One of the primary things that must happen for the world to have a propper ending if for the Jews to return to their homeland. Everybody knows that. It's not altogther clear they have to stay there for the world to end but looks to me like the righteous think so trumping all other thoughts while the "enemies of Israel" are planning to save the world by getting rid of them altogether. Without Jews in Judah the world will have to keep on spinning round.

There's not much chance in the short run but maybe if folks understood that the Bible, that's the neo con's Bible, where they get their divine guidance, if it was known to be a hoax then what, could we actually settle the mid east mess and stop the world from ending all at the same time?

The Bible is a proved hoax, http://www.hoax-buster.org has the proof but then people must be able to look at pictures, somewhat of a chore for neo cons and others too. The first part of the question is answered but then there is the matter of people finding out. However will people find out the Bible is a hoax, at church?

What you're saying is unacceptable for one simple reason, Mr. Colson - it's exactly what was said about Vietnam. Bush's policy has exactly the same flaw - it underestimated the ability of the native people to rebuild.

Sure the country is in a state of violence. It's going to be now. And that's our fault. Sure the present government isn't able to govern. Neither was the Vietnamese gov we left behind. That was our fault, too. And yes, what is happening is going to affect the neighbors. How could it not?

Get out. Help them rebuild WHEN THEY ASK. But let the Iraqi people have their own country back.

Stop repeating the mistake of Vietnam.

Al-Quada was never in Iraq until we went there. Take care of OUR security. Do what you said you were going to do - protect us from al-Quada. Where are al-Quada's top leaders?

Let Israel take care of itself. It's very good at self-defense. It's never lost a war. They won't let their selves be destroyed. They need to grow up anyway. We are not their daddy. If they can't stand on their own feet, maybe they don't deserve to exist. Stop using a 7000 yr old story to justify their existence. Think where everybody would be if we all did that.

Listen all Christians, Jews, Muslims, and Non-theists who are against this war and against its cause, Israel and its outpost here in the U.S., AIPAC(American Israel Public Affairs Committee).

It is time for us to join together as ONE, gather our resources and strengths. It is NOT ENOUGH to be just against this war. If we do not take care of its source, AIPAC, we will be defunding wars till the kingdom come(or not come for some folks).

For those of you who are new to this AIPAC thing, like I was till last August, read Walt and Mearsheimer's The Israel Lobby(2006). Free pdf working paper version of their book is available at cnionline.org under New Study of Israel Lobby. Stephen Walt is Academic Dean and Professor of International Affairs at the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University and John Mearsheimer, a West Point graduate and a 5 year veteran of Air Force, is a Professor of Political Science and the co-director of the Program on International Security Policy at the University of Chicago, where he is an authority on security affairs and international politics.

For those of you who hate to read and prefer to watch,

The Neocon Agenda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4MdyJDnSoI
10min long, explains the political situation

Google Video -- "Peace, Propaganda & The Promised Land". 1hr 20min long, Israel lobby's control of U.S. media. Viewed over 895,000 times.

Join a good organization. I have become a member of the Council for the National Interest, cnionline.org since last August when Israelis dumped THOUSANDS of cluster bombs, each containing 600 bomblets, each 155mm in diameter, against civilians in Lebanon, second time since 1982. I am sure there are other good organizations I do not know about. Do your research and JOIN. It is NOT ENOUGH to just vote. Join, and GIVE MONEY to the group of your choosing. Yes, GIVE MONEY. We must out spend AIPAC. It may sound like a tall order, but there are MORE OF US, if we ALL UNITE(a la Lord of the Rings). Domestic affairs may separate us but we have a serious common enemy that will lead us to World War III if left alone to its EVIL devices.

JOIN, SPREAD THE WORD, AND GIVE GIVE GIVE MONEY MONEY MONEY. And for now CALL YOUR CONGRESS(WO)MEN, SENATORS DAILY AND REPEATEDLY TO DEFUND THIS WAR. Tell your grandma and grandpa, aunts and uncles, mom and dad to call everyday, as often as they can. It bugs the hell out of them and IT WORKS.

Ba'Al wrote:

"Finally, there is the fact that Colson is demonstrably dishonest and in a better society would be discredited from participating in discussions of public policy. He had his chance to work at highest levels of the government, and he participated in gross subversion of the Consititution."

You have a point.

Why is it that the rehabilitation of white collar criminals in this country includes book tours and new-found financial gains? Why is it that the higher their crime, the greater their eventual reward?

You're right - he had his chance and he disgraced himself.

I think I liked it better when people like Mr Colson slinked off into exile and left the world alone, their therapy restricted to cutting out paper dolls or sewing together their hair shirt.

Stan, the Israelites, (builders, carpenters) did NOT corss the red sea. They crossed the SEA OF REEDS. The Nile river qualifies as a sea of reeds. The ONLY way into Akhetaten was across the Nile at the time, (still is?).

I just took another look myself. It's his chapter 34. It's there complete with the miracles of water and food in a place there was none, Moses striking a stone and water gushing forth. The Amarna cove was void in life support at the time with all supplies to build Akhetaten having to be barged across the Nile from the west bank. Egyptianologists are pretty much in agreement that Akhetaten was built by foreigners too. Another damning point for the Bible story, 12 tribes of Israelites being led to a desert place where they built a tabernacle, (Akhetaten?) worshipped, honored, adored, glorified and made sacrifices to the God of the father of Moses. That's the sun, lol.

Every significant part of Exodus is accounted for the way I read it, (I have more than a little training in the Bible). Where exactly he read that I'm not sure but one thing is for sure, "chasing the money changers from the temple of God." I think all Egyptologists agree on that point. Amenophis IV is creditted with an identical. Was that a historical single or did two people, Jesus of Nazerath and Amenophis IV both do it?

It doesn't take much to figure out the three great faiths that get their God from a hoax are in for a licking of one kind or the other. That story will not go away and it CAN and WILL be verified as fairly accurate with details added by the experts that have been asleep all these years. I should note that all these years only amount to a couple of hundred, since Napaleon, the first great anti Christ who turned Notra Dame over to the Parisian prostitutes saying they had paid for it, so I've heard, lol.

I and a couple others I've noticed have pointed out to Newsweek and WP at this blog the biggest story since Washington crossed the Delaware. If they aren't working hard on it the LA Times surely is or some other major publication. The question is not will the story break but when, in the middle of the 2008 campaign when evangelicals are talking to the sun, sorry meant to say talking to God, lol.

Protect Israel? Ok Mr. Colston. I am going to go sign up for the Israeli Defense Forces right away. Oh whoops, you must be a Jew to be in their army. Oh and also, you must take a class on how to torture and imprison Palestinian muslems and christians. Or did you not know Israel persecutes Christians too? Nobody told you that the Israelis have walled off bethlehem? Jerusalem has been walled off too. Under muslem rule, Christians practiced freely. Under your so called Chosen people lol, Christians are imprisoned or have left the country. I think I know what im talking about. Since i was born there and live there.
But regardless, Lets have more american troops die to protect Israel. And lets send all of our Social Security money to protect Israel. And I think they need more weapons. You know what, Israel, the chosen people of the chosen country, deserves some food too. And more cluster bombs to drop on 50% christian Lebanon.
Does anyone get my point? When are we going to take care of America? When will we spend our money here? Keep our troops here? Or are we going to listen to some cokehead "christian" dude who sells books and makes millions preaching help Israel. Oh, and on the side,, he converts murderers to Christianity.
Protect America!!!!!

Hoax-busters has a lot of it right but it should be fair to wonder why it omitted the crossing of the Red Sea on foot with an 'East' wind strong enough to