An approach through the religion and the religious establishments within Afghanistan would certainly be a positive move. How difficult such an approach would be is hard to say but I suspect very. However where I live in Indonesia Islam is a very different faith as practiced and so it is in many other parts of the world. It is not a monolith as so often assumed. The Koran can be interpreted in many ways and where interpretation is impossible it can be ignored and still provide the framework of belief Muslims need and enjoy.

To many in the West this enlightened view of the Koran and of Islam seems impossible but it is the everyday reality for around 60% of the total Muslim ummah worldwide. Islam works well with democracy and is the faith of the majority in secular democracies such as Indonesia, Bangladesh, Senegal, Mali and Turkey; which together make up 34% of the ummah. Moderate Islam is the faith of the majority and should be made available to those under the rule of the fundamentalist and extreme conservative wing who really do not know that a vast majority of their fellow believers are living a religious life that allows them to enjoy the benefits of modernity.

More on this from http://democraticduckham.blogspot.com

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Hmmm, so the koran is translated differently in Afghanistan, Pakistan/"Pashtun-land", Iran, Saudia Arabia and Iraq as say how it is translated/understood in the USA??

To wit: the English translation-

KORAN commands to kill infidels:

"Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216

(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you."
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Hmmm, so the koran is translated differently in Afghanistan, Pakistan/"Pashtun-land", Iran, Saudia Arabia and Iraq as say how it is translated/understood in the USA??

To wit: the English translation-

KORAN commands to kill infidels:

"Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful to you."

Islam itself is not the problem in Afghanistan. The problem is cultural interpretations of Islam. Afghanistan, as we know it, is home to several ethnic and tribal groups. The ones that make up the Taliban, and are on the Afghanistan/Pakistan border, are the Pashtuns. They are well-known for being the nastiest bunch of folks in a nasty part of the world. I mean, we're talking about a part of the world that hasn't really been conquered by an outside force since Alexander the Great. And even his successors couldn't keep the lid on for too long.

Regarding the Wheel of Life,

aka the Swastika,

the Nazis stole this symbol, used in Tibetan Buddhism and other Buddhist forms, that was a representation of the movement of shakti, chi, dharma, life force in a constructive and life affirming direction, and turned it around. Buddhism had the Wheel of Life spinning in a clockwise direction, life affirming, creative. Nazism spun it toward death affirming and destructive.

Hitler was fascinated by the occult and used it, psychics, seers and clairvoyants, as well as derivations of Rosicrucian and Order of the Golden Dawn magickal ritual, to support the realization of his intentions.

He got the symbol of the Wheel of Life fame and widespread recognition, but only as the symbolic representation of Evil, the complete opposite and mirror image of it's historical religious connotation.

zebra4

You wrote, " paint swatikas in their temples and homes,"

Even tho many associate the swastika with the Nazi's and only them, the swastika was around long before the Nazi's.

A friend of mine told me quite a while ago that when he was in Vietnam that he saw the swastika symbol on tombstones, this came as a revelation to me since until then I only knew it as a Nazi symbol.

Swastika:
1. a figure used as a symbol or an ornament in the Old World and in America since prehistoric times, consisting of a cross with arms of equal length, each arm having a continuation at right angles.
2. this figure as the official emblem of the Nazi party and the Third Reich.

This "symbol" does not mean the same thing to all people, so even tho it may be "politically correct", showing "tolerance" or whatever to denounce someone concerning the swastika, it is also blindly judging another when one does not know all of the facts.

Maybe this is one of the reasons that Jesus said, "Judge not, lest ye be judged", since no one knows all of the facts about anything or anybody.

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom, the new heavens and the new earth.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Dear Anthony,

Thank you for your thoughts. I agree that distinguishing the practice of Islam from the politics of the Taliban is crucial, and that my allying itself with the practice of moderate Islam, international forces in Afghanistan may win the support of the local population and bring peace and development.

Unfortunately, tribal politics are as much to blame for violence as are religious arguments. International forces will need to offer political, development-based solutions to both warloard-ism and crony-ism.

More international troops may be needed, but only if they can be used to establish and keep the peace, building and developing. If the mission is simply to fight, they will not find a receptive local population.

As an American Muslim, I want to thank you for wading into this issue and offering your thoughts. More inter-faith dialogue is needed to promote solutions to world problems that affect people of all faiths.

Thank you!

Zebra, further, I suppose your lack of a logical argument indicates you have none. I suppose you will not support my freedom of religion while visiting mecca, will not support a woman's freedom to wear what ever she desires, nor do you deny that the moderate muslims of the world are funding al qaeda.

I will support your freedom to choose the name of god you want to worship (or denounce), I will support your daughters' and mothers' rights to wear whatever they want, and of course would not fund any religious entity that may support the destruction of your people. My morality is informed by Krishna, hinduism, and the pragmatism of the American way of life. I hope someday you will join us and abandon your hate.

hariaum

Violence and intolerance in Islam is not extreme but mainstream. Every day there is violence by Muslims. They have nations based on Islam with no or very little non-Muslim population.

Zebra, your stuck in your own imagination. Muslims and christians abuse their wives and burn them or kill them with guns or knives. In the western world and India that is a crime and they go to jail. In the islamic middle east they go to court to get a sharia order to kill their wives, etc. Women are abused all over the world. That is a wrong. But here we are talking about ideology. In hindu scriptures there is no statement that Sati is required.

Islam teaches that if a man changes religion the punishment is to kill him. Of course islam ruled India for 1300 years and did not get rid of caste, indeed it sustained it even in "modern" pakistan. islam still believes a women can't be high priests. Muslims kill people that try to marry outside of the religion.... Of course the whole of islam split on the question of caste: does the family of mo inherit the priesthood or is it earned? Of course I always see the Saudi princes eating with their servants, sorry is that eating their servants?

Of course your comment is physician heal thyself. But isn't that the lamest moral excuse? If you say I sin, does that make your sin less? Is that not just cowardice on your part to not face your own faults?

I don't know what your problem is with swastikas and cow dung. The whole middle east is relevant only because of decaying dinosaurs and plants.

Never the less, I will join you in saying Indian culture has much to learn from Hinduism, as does the rest of the world.

hariaum

Afghanistan, like the US, doesn't need any more religion, it needs to continue down the path of modernization it was succeeding with before the Soviets invaded. Religion is an irrational world view causing endless strife, and mature people everywhere need to begin moving underdeveloped societies in the direction of secularity, science, and social equality for women, not back to whatever version of the dark ages seemed least troublesome...

Once again, the foundations of Islam, as with all religions, are severely flawed. Eliminate these foundations with historic truth and reality, and Afghanistan will crumble into a country of drug-running war lords which it was centuries before the arrival of Mohammed's crazies.

To wit:

With the pretty, wingie thingie i.e. Gabriel and the "warmongering, womanizing, "unholy hallucinator" aka Mohammed what does one conclude about Islam?

A cult based on oil profits, terror, fear of the sword, stoning, hand chopping and suicide bombers.

With the pretty, wingie thingie i.e. Gabriel and the illiterate peasant, possible mamzer, hallucinating and embellished Jesus what does one conclude about Catholicism/Christianity?

A cult based on the fear of hell, guilt trips, the sin of myths, limbo and the false promises of sin atonement, "miracles", indulgences and the only key to the spirit state of Heaven.

With "avenging angels" aka "not-so-pretty wingie thingies", and the mostly mythical OT and its "fortune tellers" what does one conclude about Judaism?

A cult based on the support of its rich members, the fear of Hell, the promise of a messiah and the return to the mythical promised land conquered previously by mythical OT characters.

Navin1 :

PHYSICIAN, HEAL THYSELF !

Coming from a Hindu?

Do you think the world does not know that Hindus consider even the shadow of a Dalit (untouchables) "polluting".

They do not allow the untouchable to sit with them at the same level, have any social intercourse, will never allow an inter-caste marriage.

Hindus of India are known for urine drinking, burning alive of brides for the sake of dowry, burning alive of widows in the name of sati, paint swatikas in their temples and homes, paint their homes with cow dung paste, burn cow dung cakes for fuel.

As an infidel, idolator, and heathen this original comment is nonsense as is the posts of those calling islam the religion of peace. Your god hates me, I have no care or belief in such hateful entity. I hope your allah grows a brain.

Which of you moderate muslims will sign a petition asking the administrators of mecca to allow hindus to freely worship and form temples in mecca. which of you moderate muslims will get up and say that women in all islamic countries have the right to wear what ever they want including bikinis. which of you moderate muslims will riot to force the government of pakistan to rebuild the temples of the Hindus.

The US was used by the radical muslims to support their agenda as the US is being used in pakistan and arabia now.

In the war against the Soviets, the US supported al qaeda. Now it is the moderate muslims that send funds to their mosques that (intentionally or unintentionally) fund al qaeda.

As a Hindu who loves god that is the truth, I hope your god suffers the karma for all the suffering that demon has caused - now this is an intellectual challenge to mono-ideologists: I find no problem with the muslim but with the ideology of Islam - the human was made by the god that is Truth, the islam was made by megalomaniacs.

hariaum

“Since Islam is not intrinsically oriented to violence, then it should be possible to bring peace according to the Quran.”

This statement alone proves that Mr. Arroyo never read the Quran and therefore is not qualified to promote it as a vehicle for peace or anything else.

The New York chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR-NY) today welcomed hate crime charges brought against a man who allegedly used racist slurs during an attack in Queens, N.Y., on a Long Island Muslim woman.

According to the alleged victim, who wears an Islamic head scarf, the perpetrator pulled alongside her vehicle on a local parkway, spat on it, and shouted, “Dumb f***ing Pakistani! Go back to your country!”

The attacker then reportedly sped up his car, cut into the victim’s lane and stopped in front of her in an attempt to collide with her vehicle. He then allegedly got out of his car, approached the victim and struck her hand, causing her to drop her cell phone, which she was using to speak to a 911 operator. At that point, the alleged perpetrator got back into his car and drove away. The incident took place in front of the victim's three young children.

The attacker was later arrested and will reportedly be charged with assault in the third degree, harassment in the first degree as a hate crime and harassment in the second degree. CAIR-NY is in contact with law enforcement authorities and will continue to monitor the case.

“Attacks motivated by racial or religious hatred must be prosecuted to the full extent of the law to serve as both a legal deterrent and a public repudiation of intolerance,” said CAIR-NY Civil Rights Director Aliya Latif, who is in contact with the victim. “We welcome the prosecutor’s decision to address the apparent bias motive of the alleged attacker.”

Latif also called on the U.S. Department of Justice to investigate whether federal civil rights charges may be brought in this case.

Anbd what you know about fostering Muslim piety?

I applaud the idea Stevens-Arroyo puts forward. It is logical, makes sense, is workable, and is congruent with essential Christian and certainly Catholic concepts. Now, Catholicism does not usually stand in direct support of other religious traditions quickly, in that it, like most Christian forms, believes that the Soul is saved only by following it's True Path.

But this proposal is good, and certainly takes courage for a Catholic to forward. It does not seek to impose military of political oversight as the force of change, or superimpose a foreign religious presence onto the culture. It seeks to cause a separation of alignment of the natural religion of the land from the radicalized and militarized elements that have seized power in the religion and in the culture. Using organic means.

What is wrong with that?

Christopher3,

Ignorance is in you, if you think that this website had any form of overall truth about Islam, and if you believed, as you said you did, that the Stevens-Arroyo article was ignorant.

I second the post of WPC09 to you. Christianity is the religion of war, as is Judism. We can look at history and the tastes and tendencies of followers of those religions and validate that title.

Likewise we could call them religions of peaceful desires, and support that concept. As we can do with Islam.

Be less a conditioned, prejudiced and programmed Westerner and use your brain, and then help in some way, instead of being another repeating station for bigotry and bias.

Christopher3, what a tendentious screed against Islam you recommend. It should be "bad Muslims in action" rather than Islam in action. One can go to Christian history and find similar things by which to call Christianity - unjustly - the religion of war or slavery or subjection of women. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all have rules and teachings relating to war - when it is just and when it is not. Try actually studying unbiased sources on the life of Muhammad and the history of Islam. I suggest readers try the biography by Martin Lings entitled "Muhammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources"; "Islam: Religion, History and Civilization" by Seyyed Hossein Nasr; or "No god but God" by Reza Aslan.

The solution to Afghanistan and the Islamic Problem in general is simple and very inexpensive:

Simply translate the following Easy Five Step Method for Deflawing and Deprograming Islam followed by the promulgation of said around the Muslim world:

Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

"1. Belief in Allah"

aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc." should be added to your cleansing neurons.

"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gib Gnab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "creationist".

"3. To believe in the existence of angels."

A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/devils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hittites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc.

No "pretty/ugly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as fairies and "tinker bells". Modern devils are classified as the demons of the demented.

"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."
Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels/"pwtfft"s to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the uneducated masses in line. Today we call them fortune tellers.
Prophecies are also invalidated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."

Mohammed spent thirty days fasting in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic violence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallucinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

Accept these five "cleansers" and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

test

What an ignorant article this was.
Here is the truth.

Islam 101: The Religion of War

http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2009/10/islam-101-religion-of-war_05.html