All Comments (25)

"Jesus may be the titular leader of the Christian church, but He's not around to issue press statements, perform worship rites, make sure that the service/mass starts on time, etc. "

Why is any of this even necessary? Why should there be organized religion of any kind? It's all just a bunch of people, who we certainly have ample evidence are no better than you and I - witness Baaker, Swaggart, Haggard, and all of those pedophile priests, among others. All of these people just put layer after layer of interpretation on the respective texts until the underlying writing isn't even discernible. Why can't you interpret for yourselves? Of what use are the rituals?

Why not just teach people to read, and make them aware of the relevant books. *All* of them. Then let them do it themselves in their own time.

Jesus may be the titular leader of the Christian church, but He's not around to issue press statements, perform worship rites, make sure that the service/mass starts on time, etc.
A recent workshop that I attended posited that there are three kinds of religious leaders: the priest, whose main function is to be the worship leader and inspire the laiety; the minister, who takes care of the laiety (i.e. pastoral counseling, youth group, visiting the sick, etc.); and the "rabbi" or historian, who is the keeper of the traditions. Regardless of your spiritual path, leaders need to be able to combine all three of these functions. Perhaps these gentlemen achieved greatness because they possessed all three qualities? I don't know - I'm not familar with them.

Garyd wrote: "by the way if what Cal said is religious bigotry then everyone here who things his religious view is the best is a religious bigot and that includes the Atheists."

Why must athiests always point out that atheism is NOT a religion? Maybe its because "believers" cannot understand not having a belief in any supernatural power. Everyone has beliefs. Belief in helping the poor, not hitting children even to discipline, taking oaths and commitments seriously. Most have nothing to do with belief in the supernatural.

And you and an atheist have almost identical non-beliefs. Assuming you are christian, both you and an atheist do not believe in the Hindu god, the Muslim god, the Wiccan gods, the American Indian gods and the thousands of other gods that are believed in worldwide. The atheist just doesn't believe in your god either.

And there is a difference between thinking your belief is best and being a bigot. Bigotry is based on ignorance. If someone has studied various religions and settled on one because they thing it is best, that does not make them a bigot. However someone who says their religion is best because it is the only religion they have known is certainly bigoted as would an Englishman saying that English is the best language.

Pam,

Interesting..

thanks for the link.

W

Cal's argument sounds a little like President Bush when he was asked who his favorite philosopher was, and said, "Jesus," becaue he couldn't think of anything else to say. He could have said that he is not much of a student of philosophy and didn't really have a favorite; that would not make him look dumb, but I suppose he was too insecure to say that. "Jesus" is always a safe answer to every question. But realistically, Jesus is not here and cannot provide the kind of leadership that the question asked about.

I don't even think Cal cares anymore. He seems to write down the very first cliche that pops into his head, with the fewest possible words. I am sure he could do better than this, if he cared to.

I have always been an admirer of Jesus but I think that "The Way, The Truth and The Life" lies within yourself and not with someone else.

You are the universe comtemplating itself and although teachers are good, you must go beyond them to reach heaven.

I don't think Mother Theresa went about jibber jabbing about the 'savior'

she simply sought to help people.

I don't know what you need to be saved FROM

my BEST guess is you're only interested in your 'personal afterlife plan'

pretty damn selfish if you ask me

Whatever your name is, I've forgotten it

I do remember Mother Theresa's name though.

Something tells me you're in it for your 'personal salvation' pal.

DECIST Order:
WHAT?:
Bgone:

Att: hoax? aka
WHAT? aka
BGONE aka
HOMO SEXUAL,

http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul

ATT: BGONE ; You are Going To Be Investigated by the I.R.S. for Commiting Internet Fraud & bilking unsuspecting Donors to your Fraudulant Site!

>>I see you aren't a real scholar of Greek.

No. No degree. No magna cum laude. Nor, are you in the respect that you mention it..otherwise you wouldnt admit that it (paradise) can be several meanings...which by the way in this case, it is meant for the garden tomb area.

>>Or you'd know that the word translated as paradise in Greek has several meanings mostly determined by context.

Correct. The true context of the verse in question is exactly what the garden area of the tomb was referred to as.

>>I also see that you aren't familiar with the fact that Jesus spoke Aramaic.

And where did you derive that view of what I know from? Thin air? Where in the world did I mention differently, let alone any comment of, what language Jesus spoke?

Red herrings are easy to dodge, my friend.

What? says:
"Any real scholar who studies the original Greek..."

Do you know the writings of Bart Ehrman? He was so devout that he studied and became fluent in both ancient Greek and Aramaic so he could study the documents that made up the Bible in their original language. Read his story at the link below.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/04/AR2006030401369.html

Yeah Jesus knew where he was going alright said the Gays you good old US of ass folks say straight to the hill. Christians bolt the doors and allow fascists of all sorts to push cannabis and kids for sex and bikes. I would be careful about your faith and your affection towards the drugs that alter your mental state or is it your faith in drugs for your affections towards those you sacrifice to the sun gods just like the boy child Jesus Christ. There is a very high number of people treating Edinburgh like Amsterdam and making it seem less and less unique. I was in Amsterdam and drugged by the drugs and sex occultists who worship the sun mostly that makes their cannabis and bank balances grow. Well I do not know what the drug dealing and child prostituting McLean’s of Crimond and all the other junkie alternate cult sex offenders did with me from and since early child hood but most people know better than to give me a bad name. On account of the dangerous side affect of drugs other people have taken in my life to make them make child porn with me to fund drugs which varied from the usual say the drug industrialists, child on adult sex to animals on children sex to one “maybe” attempt at child snuff porn and for the pleasure of it. So I think you have done it all with me well before I left school and since and that includes Eli Lilly Novartis and Glaxo Smith Kline. Some people have more rights than others. I strongly believe that if you do drugs dealers and users and producers that all of your wealth should be confiscated and not even your children should be allowed to profit from the suffering and deaths of other children and adults but the children should not be punished for the crimes as is often the case. Food stamps like other countries have adopted so long as they can be identified with the intended recipient should replace their benefits. It is strange that the law protects those who make the money and not those they make victims, which sounds ironic.

by the way if what Cal said is religious bigotry then everyone here who things his religious view is the best is a religious bigot and that includes the Atheists.

I see you aren't a real scholar of Greek. Or you'd know that the word translated as paradise in Greek has several meanings mostly determined by context. I also see that you aren't familiar with the fact that Jesus spoke Aramaic.

A counterpoint to what was mentioned above by BGONE:
Any real scholar who studies the original Greek knows that 'paradise' refers to the garden where Jesus and the other two were entombed. The connotations of the word 'hell', translated by the King James from 'hades' steers very far from the original meaning of the word hades. Basically, just 'under the ground'. Our religious cultures of the past centuries have tacked on the false notion that there is a hell where people are currently tormented. The bible speaks clearly that the only tormenting 'hell' (or as it was in the greek - 'gahenna') will be reserved for those who do not wish know and follow God after the Great White throne judgement which follows Christs millenial reign on earth. At it wont be ever-burning....that type of torment is only reserved for the adversary, Satan, and his demons.

Its all in the book, my friend.

You said, "We have too many "leaders" and not enough followers of the only Leader (Jesus of Nazareth) who knows where he is going." As for all those leaders aren't they just trying to get in on a good thing? The big money goes to those leading the multitudes to hell doesn't it?

http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul agrees with your contention that Jesus of Nazareth knew where he was going, hell. That's what the Bible says anyhow. And He described hell as paradise - turned to the good thief and said, "this day you will be with me in paradise." Later on in the Bible it says that Jesus went to hell upon His death on the cross. Hell and paradise must be the same place.

If Jerry Falwell is now with Jesus where's he at? Jesus was fathered by the being in the burning bush ya know.

As long as the big tax money as well as "gifts to God" paying for tickets to hell keeps going to those leading the multitudes to hell can we expect the number of leaders to diminish?

CTCNL

Yes, I have seen your link.

Unless Im mistaken, R.G Price, correct?

Seems to be a jack-of-all-subjects ('myths', capitalism, facism, a slew of others)

Im curious. How do all the authors (including Price) of these 100 books you tout know Jesus is a myth when they didnt live at that time? Seems to be the same argument of some that discount the gospels and the like. Whats the point? You have your people that didnt live at the time of Christ that you believe and I have my people that lived at or closer the time of Christ that I believe...

Again, sorry, not convinced (along with millions of other Christians)

But, all the best anyway.

One human race.

One origin of that human race.

One earth upon which they live.

One God, creator.

All else on the subject...mans conjecture.

Mans conjecture is the root of human confusion, including religious confusion.

Consider. I dont know you (speaking to any or all)...but I know you have a mind with the ability to create...even if I dont see you create. I also know that you could probably create something quite extraordinary from a menagerie of, for example, trash. But it takes thought to make something of that trash. What you create from trash could only work perfectly by design, not by blowing up the trash in the laboratory.

DW,

WAPO limits net references to two per commentary.

Did you review the two I included? Did you already peruse the 100 books on the historic Jesus that are listed in the second reference?

When finished, you should also review the information at http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm. "Mr. Mark" noted this referene in a recent thread.

Mr. Mark:

Yes, a 56 word essay that confirms his religious bigotry. Hope the flat rate is really low.

Apparently, the WaPo has stopped paying Cal by the word and has gone to a flat rate for his columns.

We should count our blessings. ;)

CTCNL

Wow. That a lot of words in admitted theories (aka speculations) and probably's (supported by evidence strong enough to establish presumption but not proof) you have there. Not to mention some points that have no source mentioned at all.

I would have to say, though, they are not convincing to the millions who realize, and are not swayed by what is mentioned above, that there is one who created us just as we are able to create. With the unexplained, countless intracacies of human life alone...it is a logical progression of thought...yea, belief.

Thanks for sharing thoughts...but again, sorry, not convincing.

The Prophet and the Archbishop were good and gracious men but were they leaders? Leaders educate and both failed in that regard. We "pew sitters" should not need to search for contemporary historic reviews of our religions. This information should appear in our Sunday bulletins, posted on our bulletin boards and discussed from the pulpits.

This is what should have been presented but was and is not being promulgated as required by our religious leadership:

A synopsis of the flaws in the founders and foundations of the major religions (for those that have not seen them before or did not take the time to look):

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was probably a mythical character as was Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.

1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

3. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven,warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels"/"pretty thingies" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds these acts of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

4. Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy talking flying fictional thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

5. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) - "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."
The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."
"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

What disgusting drivel.

...crickets chirping

in an empty chamber,

with a reverberant...

echo