All Comments (53)

CCNL:

Don't take the SCREWTAPE skit too seriously. It was creative writing designed for amusement. Still, do consider the points within. You often come across as repetitive, doctrinaire, and self righteous about the Crossun thing. Consider the full humanity of your fellows on the blog, even if they differ from you.

PaganPlace:

Precious few "reasoned articles" to be found here. Maybe we should all work on that.

I would say, Anonymous, that if you want to take that kind of position on people who present reasoned articles here, on the basis of academic credibility, stop arguing from authority and provide a shred of evidence about your serious accusations.

Cause, you know, somehow I don't see *liberal* Christians driving the fancy cars and defending the profiteering of coprorations.

You wanna get that picky and accusatory about credibility, ...for starters, pick a name, and for another thing, ...back it up.

Anon aka Screwtape,

Reading the works of the cited exegetes will set you free. Enjoy your trip to the reality of it all!!!! Or you can simply remain in the muck of biblical fiction, myth and embellishments. Both roads are protected by the First Amendment.

My Dear Concerned “Christian”,

You progress has been outstanding. Our Father Below, will be most pleased to hear of it. You crow that no one can judge sensationalist popular-press books, while you yourself judge Jesus to be illiterate and a crazy peasant. You judge what the “authentic Jesus” could have said from genteel environs, just so certain that you have found the Truth. And indeed you have found Our Truth.

O delight! You call it “deflawing”. Thus you have progressed to a fundamentalism which is cannot be shaken. You even say a contrary scholar is “spouting mumbo jumbo” if he disagrees with your popular press gods. O do choose which “30%” are the “authentic Jesus” and debate upon it. You are in such good company when you do that. And it is such a delightful exercise of certainty when you really know nothing about it. And it invites others to share in your certainty. It is wonderful to see that so many “scholars” of today never even read the original materials. We have lead them to commentaries upon commentaries so many layers deep that they have lost all meaning.

Do decide the Abraham was mythical. Your certainty, based on nothing in particular, delights me so. You so confidently speak with no evidence. It is such great practice for the future to mislead others down Our Path. We really must have that discussion of what Jesus would have done had he survived to maturity. We can be sure that Christianity would be nothing like what it, unfortunately, did come to be. That one is so productive.

Your fundamentalism is a true joy to behold. You assume your conclusion, which then forces you to conclude that you were right all along. A certainty that needs nothing but its own substance upon which to feed. How lovely that you have abandoned real inquiry and find your truth in shallow popular press books. Real research of the original material could provoke reasoned investigation, so avoid it at all costs. If unchecked, reason can lead us to the Enemy's ground, because it can awaken the mind to trust creation and itself. Above all, avoid the sciences. The enemy's creation has too much fidelity and orderliness to be ignored when it is honestly examined. There have been unfortunate cases among physicists. You could start wondering about why creation is so perfect. No, No, No, that is dangerous to Our Truth. The Pabulum for the mind to which you are accustomed is so much easier to digest so please do not trouble yourself.

I will check in to encourage you another time soon. O yes, “exegete” is such a lovely term. But what of the hermeneutics of suspicion? So productive that one has been for Us. You will simply love the lessons on that. You can be so authoritative and confusing to the unprepared. I am sure you will be delighted.

Your affectionate uncle

SCREWTAPE

Anon,

You make a number of statements without any supporting references. And you sit in judgement of NT exegetes who have PhDs and multiple books about the NT? So what degrees do you possess?? And Luke Johnson simply reiterates the same mumbo jumbo orthodox Christianity has been spouting for the last 2000 years!!!!

The current status of the "deflawing" of Christianity for your purusal:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was probably a mythical character. If he was real, he was at best a combination of at least three men. 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT. http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

3. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy talking flying fictional thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

I am thankful for:

the material of existence that composes the world and our bodies;

the dynamism of existence that motivates the world and our spirits;

the balance of exiistence that causes all things to operate as they do;

the rythms of existence, that enable us, in our passage through time, to experience life as we do.

CCNL:

Funk, Crossan, and Wilson have been debunked by Luke Timothy Johnson who is a first rate scholar. He points out that the Jesus Project Community is motivated by:

1. A desire to cash in. They take controversial positions to make sales, just as Hitchins, Dawkins, Harris, and Jacoby do.

2. They believe that fundamentalism is dangerous and wish to undermine it. They have dispensed with historical accuracy and quality of scholarship to do so. This subsequently turned into a general assault on faith, which they continue.

3. They represent a very small minority of Christian Scholars. They get popular press printings and bookstore shelf space because of 1.

4. They are generally second rate in their scholarly techniques.

LTJ provides many specifics. Your faith in them is misplaced. I feel sorry for you because having been taken by them.

Anon,

Professor Crossan, an On Faith panelist, is simply one of many religious exegetes who are "deflawing" Christianity. A list of these experts and their books is featured at http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

"Reasonable..." Please - you seem like a nice person, but "we [Christians] will always point out the truth that you all need Jesus Christ to fulfill yourselves" - is your opinion, not the "truth." And, having once known Jesus Christ, please rest assured that I am much more fulfilled without him.

YOu also say, "Christians have the obligation to scream "fire" in the burning theater our world really is,and to point out the escape from destruction that lies in Jesus Christ."

We atheists have no such obligation, so just let me say person to person, that I'm not interested in your supposed "escape from destruction." I don't believe in it. Never really did, I don't think, and it seems to me if you did, you'd be doing more than talking about this need to help humanity escape. For reasons unknown to humanity (God does work in mysterious ways, so I'm told), God made the Savior known to just a small portion of the world. So it's obviously your job, as a Christian, to point out the escape route to heaven to all those poor souls around the world who haven't heard of Him yet.

Perhaps you should pull yourself away from your computer and this website invested with stubborn atheists. Instead, sell your worldly possessions and convert those multitudes who have never heard the Good News.

DZ:

I doubt very seriously there are "millions" of dominion-ists. Galatians , if he is real, is in the minority in the evangelical community.

As for me, I believe in the core truths of Christianity and in free will- if you choose not to believe, that is your thing. After all, the Constitution grants us freedom to worship or not at all.

That does not preclude me from influencing society with Judeo Christian principles through politics or with my vote. Really, a theocracy is impossible in our society and I find it a straw man argument when people like yourself bring this up. There are some that believe that in the Christian community, but the vast majority don't . It strikes of scare tactics to me.

Mavina- Christians will never leave those that don't believe in Christ alone- we will always point out the truth that you all need Jesus Christ to fulfill yourselves . It is HOW we do it, and when someone does it in the spirit of love, that is one thing, but if they do it with legalistic and to be interpreted as hateful- that is another thing. Christians have the obligation to scream "fire" in the burning theater our world really is,and to point out the escape from destruction that lies in Jesus Christ.

CCNL:

"You cannot use the problems and history of other religions and geographical areas to deflect the significant problems of Islam."

Why not? You use make-believe popular press books for scripture.

All hail Dom Crossin! For He is the Truth, the Light, and the Way! Thus Saith CCNL.

Victoria, Victoria, Victoria, and "Like Thinkers",

You still don't see the big picture i.e. the warmongering, anti-female passages in the koran that 24/7 leads to Muslim on Muslim bloodletting, terror and torture and "dark age" sensitivity to your founder's name. If you suffer from the latter issue, simply repeat, "Mohammed was a warmongering, womanizing, illiterate, hallucinating Arab" twenty five times. Bravo, you are now on your way to the reality of history!!!!

this statement seems somewhat questionable from a historical perspective-

"until recently we have largely been protected from the consequences of religious and ethnic tensions that grip much of the world."

alot of tensions come to my mind-

does persecution of any non-christian groups count or is it only the christian protestants that have been protected?

o wait- i guess not all- those women burned as witches were protestant but they probably felt less than protected-

Gaby:

Well said, my friend.

"We have conflict with each other, because too many of us are in conflict with God: not accepting His existence; not obeying His commands; rejecting His salvation."

Give me a break, Cal. Why don't you tell that our god fearing Commnder-in-Chief.

The reason we have so much conflict is that the leadership of many countries are power hungry, money hungry, corrupt, pompous asses who want to force their world view on every other human on the world. Or in the case of many third world countries, they are just corrupt, money hungry bastards who enrich themselves while starving their citizenry to death.

I don't need your bible god to lead a "christian" lifestyle. I give where I can, I treat others the way I'd like to be treated, and I do no harm. If that isn't good enough, well to bad, so sad.

I'd be willing to bet that Galatians is not tongue in cheek at all. I have dozens of relatives on my mother's side who believe the very same drivel that he/she is spouting. There are millions of Americans who espouse the views of Galatians, and they are very dangerous.

As Stephen Colbert says:

“I believe that everyone has the right to their own religion, be you Hindu, Muslim, or Jewish. I believe there are infinite paths to accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior"

We are always thankful for this Thanksgiving Day. "Thanksgiving" Reminds us some thing we tend to forget. "Thanksgiving" is a practice, social discourse, which allow us to focus on our innersoles, the house we live and delve in it for last 365 days. What is it's status? Is that house is in order? Is it clean and tidy?
What we will find in our inner houses if left uncleaned, unkempt, un-dusted, unboomed, not being Hoovered? Well, we find it Dusty, stale and gloomy plus emanating filthy smells of all sorts of vices and dangerous bugs and Elements who have started residing in our own inner Houses -the inner sanctum.
So these unwanted and uncalled for Entities are classified like these- Hate, lie, zealousness, disdain, anger, illicit sexual connotations, tend to harm thy neighbors, harboring all kinds of prejudices, self boastfulness, tend to bring oneself ot "self- importance", boastfullness of having illicit wealth accumulation, cruelty to innocent creatures and plants and nature [all creations of God], religious intolerance, cruelty to children, Gambling, prostitution, money laundering, unneccessarily attacking our neighbors or Nation and start unjust war ...etc.
so in my view this Thanksgiving day is highly significant for me that it shows me an avenue through through which I can proceed to spirituality and self salvation and peace. It also provides me with necessary tools and instrument to claen my house, and get rid of all vices form my inner sanctum.
Thanksgiving Day also brings presents as Santa Claus doses, They are- to Help the needy and helpless, Provide shelters to whom needs place to rest, Preventing me from Animal cruelty. It teaches us to avoid all Vices mentioned above and specially related to **three W's**.
So Thanksgiving allows me to be a better Man.

"Is it so scary to declare this nation "under God"?"

Turns out it is. It takes 'One nation indivisible' and *divides* it with a theological statement.

If you don't believe in that sort of God-above-separate-and-ruling, then to you, it's people who do claiming religious authority over you.

If you do believe in that sort of God, you shouldn't need your government to tell you.

"Richard Rosenthal:

Athena- there is no evidence at all that Cal or anyone else wants a theocracy. It is a straw man argument in your case, or just scare tactics. Fabrication and just plain false."

Actually, Richard, google the guy and see what he writes in *conservative* forums.

Athena- there is no evidence at all that Cal or anyone else wants a theocracy. It is a straw man argument in your case, or just scare tactics. Fabrication and just plain false.

Since this is a Christian Nation founded on Christian principles by Bible-believing Chrsitians like the Puritans, I offer here the Puritan's Prayer of Thanksgiving.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Is it so scary to declare this nation "under God"?

Our constitution declares that Congress shall pass no law respecting the establishment of religion. The first commandment states "I am the lord your god! you shall have no other God before me.
So, this is easy. If you pick our Constitution you also get to keep the first commandment (to yourself please) If you pick the first commandment then renounce your citizenship and leave. This is the only reason we can avoid theocracy. And also remember why trying to legislate your morality by majority is sooooooo un-American.

"E favorite:

Malvina -- I suspect Galatians might be tongue-in-cheek too. At least I hope so. He/she is just too perfectly biased and [theocratic]

You know, E fave, some satire is just indistinguishable from what it's satirizing, but there's a possibility. Certainly, Galatians would be unhappy with his 'Christian Nation' when the Christians inevitably start going after the Trinitarians among them, or whatever darn thing. One thing history teaches is that their repression and bloodshed doesn't stop with non-Christians, when they get to be in charge.

You don't have to look much further *than* the Puritans to see what happens, they come all the way here for 'freedom to do religion their way and their way alone' and promptly ended up with a situation where they're burning people among them as 'witches,' at war with Native Americans, and people have to flee *them* for religious freedom.

Look at the horrors Cromwell visited upon Ireland, if that's not enough.

Of course, the UU can trace their roots to these guys, so it's not like one can't learn from these things.

The thing about theocratic control, and the horrors thereof, is that it *never ends.* It's never satisfied, and never at peace. And that's something the Founding Fathers knew.

If they wanted a Christian theocracy, they bloody well would have said so, not left it for thin arguments and revisionist distortions of history.

Moody, Moody, Moody,

You cannot use the problems and history of other religions and geographical areas to deflect the significant problems of Islam.

Once again, the issues and history of Islam:

Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, warmongering, hallucinating Arab who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic train bombers in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino koranics.

And who funds these acts of terror? The Islamic Shiite terror and torture, controlled news, theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

Bottom line:

Until the Muslim SOP, the koran, is "deflawed", no one is safe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Throc?" I meant to say "theocratic."

"efect" of course, is "effect"

Sorry - obviously typing too fast and not checking.

Malvina -- I suspect Galatians might be tongue-in-cheek too. At least I hope so. He/she is just too perfectly biased and throc.

Irrespective of Galatians' authenticity, I can only hope it has the efect of scaring liberal and moderate Christians away from despots like Cal.

The tenets of all religions, when examined objectively, are nonsense. Their primary value seems to be to give one a sense of superiority over "others," and to define in-group/out-group thinking. This has, of course, led to much pain and suffering. Cal Thomas is just a shill for the Religious Right, and would [I believe] welcome a Dominionist theocracy in America. I think that "Galatians" [who I suspect as being tongue-in-cheek] has accurately captured the spirit of this movement. All of the Abrahamic religions seem obsessed with making over the world in the image projected by their interpretations of their holy scriptures. Why can't they mind their own business and let the rest of us alone?

I always wondered why every passing day west is going shamelessly promiscuous, vulgar, obscene, abhorrent to morality or virtue and repulsive by reason of crass disregard of moral or ethical principles. OTHER THEN RUTHLESSLY VIOLENT AND BARBARIC TO OTHER RELIGIONS AND RACES!!

-Why kids are molested in there dark churches and convents by there priests. TURNED INTO MILLIONS OF GAYS OR ETHEIST, I GUESS BETTER CHOICE FOR THEM!
- Why children are molested by there parents (mostly adopted not blood related) in your society?
- Why every second women is raped in your society? Alone in USA more than 2730 women raped every single day.
-Why teenage girls pregnancy is out of control in your society?
-Why kids are not properly raised by there parents and why old parents are not been taken care by there kids in your society?
-Why your society is so violent and crime rate is so high in its civic fabric?

FIRST I WAS SHOCKED, IMMEDIATELY AFTER READING BIBLE REALIZING THAT ALL MY EYES GET WET, I PRAYED AND THANKED GOD AND ASKED FOR HIS MERCY AND FORGIVENESS, THAT HE SAVED ME FROM THE CURSE OF TWISTED LIES…….AS ALL THE ACTUAL VIRTOUS VERSIONS, ALL THAT WE MUSLIMS KNOW AND MOSTLY NOT AWARE OF THE WAY VULGORLY THOSE HISTORY STORIES ARE TWISTED IN THE BIBLE.

I READ YOUR BIBLE AND CAME TO REALIZE WHAT KIND OF TWISTED VOLGUR ATRIBUTES YOU HAVE ATTACHED TO YOUR PROPHETS AND TO YOUR LORD GOD. YOU HAVEN’T LEFT ANYONE, FATHER TO DAUGHER, SON TO MOTHER, GOD TO SARAH, THERE BASTERED OFF SPRINGS. HAVE YOU LEFT ANYBODY THERE?????
AND THAT IS THE CURSE IN REALITY WHICH IS REFLECTING UPON YOUR WHOLE SOCIETY, BELIEVE IT OR NOT!!!!!!!

VERY FEW EXAMPLE OUT OF THE BIBLE……..

PROPHET LOT AND HIS DAUGHTERS (YOUR BIBLE TELLS SLEEPING TOGATHER AND HAVING CHILDREN)

30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father."
33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, "Last night I lay with my father. Let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father." 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
36 So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father

PROPHETS SON SLEEPING WITH HER MOTHER YOUR BIBLE TELLS-GENESIS 35

21 Israel moved on again and pitched his tent beyond Migdal Eder. 22 While Israel was living in that region, Reuben went in and slept with his father's concubine Bilhah, and Israel heard of it.
Jacob had twelve sons:

PROPHET ABRAHAM MARRIED HER REAL SISTER ACCORDING TO YOUR BIBLE

11 Abraham replied, "I said to myself, 'There is surely no fear of God in this place, and they will kill me because of my wife.' 12 Besides, she really is my sister, the daughter of my father though not of my mother; and she became my wife.

THE BIRTH OF ISAAC (LORD DID FOR SARAH, WHAT HAD PROMISED) ACCORDING TO YOUR BIBLE IT WAS NOT ABRAHAM
Genesis 21 (New International Version)

1 Now the LORD was gracious to Sarah as he had said, and the LORD did for Sarah what he had promised. 2 Sarah became pregnant and bore a son to Abraham in his old age, at the very time God had promised him.

Now I clearly understand that why our Quran tells that Bible or any other devine book is not in its orignal form and are all tanted by the evil doers. And that why we do not believe or follow them, though we do believe in all devine books including bible revealed in their original form but do not exist. AND WE ALSO BELIEVE IN ALL THE PROPHETS INCLUDING JESUS CHRIST AND OUR QURAN REJECTS ALL KIND OF VOLGARITIES ATTRIBUTED TO THEM OR TO OUR GOD. AND EXPLAINS AND TELL STORIES ABOUT HOW VIRTUOUS THEY WERE IN REALITY!!!!!

Deb & Dave,

Since you forget history and prefer not to discuss your religion (???) let me enlighten you:

- When Prophet(PBUH) finally entered Mecca with the his army, not a single person was killed. And he gave amnesty to every one including people who for 13 years keep on killing his family, his diciples, newly reverted muslims, tried to kill him so many time, who tourtered and butchered muslims through out his life, with the trail of all previous wars raged by them upon muslims.

- In 13-14 centurey, christian crusaders took Jerusalum by force and ruled over it with IRON FIST for 100 years, not allowing muslims to practice there religion and extreme oppression. But when Sultan Salahudin Ayubi took it back, he gave unconditional pardon to all the Christians and Jews, following his Prophets(PBUH) foot steps. And since then all religions were practiced there with out any operation until ISRAEL came into Being.

-Israelis (Jews) forgot that when the Europion Crusadors throwed them out of from ALL Europe. The only place they got emnsty, peace and lived freely for more than 800 years in Spain with Muslims under there rule. Finally after that they are thrown out once again into Palestine.

-And you Hindus forgot that you are ruled by your own race converted Muslims for more than 1000 years. And as per your Indian records, audio / visual documentories and movies, which until now tells and aploud about the justice of Muslim rules. IF we would have to convert you Hindus by sword, there was no Hindu left after 1000 year of muslim rule. Look around the comparative world history of Crusadors, colonists or other nations.

- I don't want to go into details way Indian muslims ruled instead of hindus there. All the reason hidden deep with in your religious discrimination to the very extend of killing each other, burning women alive, as per sacred religion still eating cow dung and pee and so many other rediclous hate mongering practices...so and so...even today India is the only country where women are less in number, every day more than 3000 female fetuses are aborted there. And continuous genocides of different religious races including there own are still going on under Hindu rule.

Note : Muslims in reality never wanted to divide India. You can read my post in this regard in " Islam and Voilence" dated Nov 04, 2007 with the topics.
- India / Pakistan History before Partition
- Pakistan history Politics after Partition.

And why muslims killing muslims. The answer is in very recent example:
Before American Invasion, Sunni Iraqi Tyrant leadership to please its master USA was in war with Shia Iran for more than 8 years. But there was no sign of civil war between sunni and shia Iraqi's, further more any kind of security forces killing and public bomb blasts on such every day mass scale level. It is USA who ploted TWIN TOWERS and fueling the muslim riots among the muslims AND KEEPING THE FUEL!!!!!!
AND SAME IS THE BRITISH 300 YEAR COLONIAL HISTORY ON THE MUSLIM LANDS. WHERE THEY ARE CRUSED AND OPPRESSED BARBARICLY. IT IS ALL VERY OPEN ON RECORD AVAILABLE EVERY WHERE. ALL YOU NEED TO DO,JUST SEARCH GOOGLE.

And though suicide is forbidden in Islam. But after almost 60 years long BARBARISM OF ISRAEL AND SILENCE OF HYPOCRATE WEST, the hopeless tormented muslims are committing that forbiden sin, giving up hope in extreme frustration from there present state of destroyed life by every means.

BECUM A BETTER PERSON AND STAY AWAY FROM ALL THIS HOKUS POKUS! RELIGION POISONS EVERYTHING IT TOUCHES!

I'm not against religion at all. I'm all for people worshipping as they choose to - or not. However, my acceptance of all religions stops when one of them decides that this country would be "better off" if we followed THEIR principles and not the Constitution.

Galatians:

Your disgusting Christian dominionist view of history is a clear and present danger to the health, safety and freedom of all Americans. That is apart from the fact that your reading of history is completely and totally inaccurate. You are exceedingly dangerous.

"America remains the last best hope on Earth"

you're joking right

Mo,
There is little to no proof of human sacrifice in ancient Egypt. Now there has been accusations by those trying to say that there was, but there has been no findings of it.

The Eygptians believed in sympethetic magick... the connection between two like things. A figure made to look like the person would do. Christians are too literal...and a necklace of Lapis Lazuli would be more appropriate then a human.

terra

Galatians,

You noted:

"It means to believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. It means believing that the world was created in 6 days about 6000 years ago."

Time to shed your apparent Breeding, Birth and Brainwashing in orthodox Christianity . e.g.

Hominids evolved to their current form, 60,000 years ago after millions of years of evolution. See the description of the first "Adam".

https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/

" DNA studies suggest that all humans today descend from a group of African ancestors who about 60,000 years ago began a remarkable journey. Follow the journey from them to you as written in your genes”.

"Adam" is the common male ancestor of every living man. He lived in Africa some 60,000 years ago, which means that all humans lived in Africa at least at that time.

Unlike his Biblical namesake, this Adam was not the only man alive in his era. Rather, he is unique because his descendents are the only ones to survive.

It is important to note that Adam does not literally represent the first human. He is the coalescence point of all the genetic diversity."

Oh, and if you're still unclear on the definition of 'Freedom,' consider the word *Liberty.*

Oh, and a *child* knows that 'Freedom to do only one thing' isn't freedom at all, even if you like that thing.

This is pure doublespeak, on your part, Galatians.

The Puritans didn't found the United States of America. They were one group that had a colony a century and a half earlier. In fact, in many ways they embodied everything the founders of the United States intended to avoid.

Mr. Thomas,

I feel that your remarks deserve some scrutiny. I agree with you that "freedom of worship" is one of the hallmarks of this great Christian Nation. However, we have to be careful about what the founders' intentions were in granting us freedom of worship. Look again at the Pilgrims. They refused to worship under the apostate Anglican Church, so being Bible-believing Christians, they set out bravely and with God's help to the New World so they could worship freely. THey embodied our freedom of worship.

So, I think that your remarks need to be clarified. Freedom of worship in this country means freedom to worship the One true trine God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It means to reject apostates such as the pope. It means to believe that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. It means believing that the world was created in 6 days about 6000 years ago. Any other form of worship is heresy, as is failure to worship. That's what freedom of worship means.

Every day I praise the Lord for allowing me to live in this blessed country.

"he messeage of jesus son of marry is nice and simple,worship the creator not the creation,"

This is also Dominionist code for 'Everyone but us is an 'idolater,' whatever they actually believe.'

"Christian nation" advocates are the same of "English only" advocates - insecure about anything different or accommodating to others. As my mean old Irish Catholic boss used to tell me, "It's may way or the highway"

"Christian nation" means fascist theocracy. It this sounds trite, have you looked up the true definition of "fascism" lately?

a political system in which all power of government is vested in a person or group with no other power to balance and limit the activities of the government. Fascist governments are often closely associated with large corporations and sometimes with extreme nationalism and racist activities. ...

Sound familiar, Cal?

ancient egyptians when the nile is short and dry they used to throw a virgin young lady in the nile and let the poor girl drown to death hopeing for the flood and plantation.

christians proclaming to mankind that for so god love the world he nailed his only begotten son on the cross for the sin of mankind. or some mankind nailed the incarnate god in earthly son on the cross for the sin of mankind.

the above fossilism of ignorance is gone long time ago .

the messeage of jesus son of marry is nice and simple,worship the creator not the creation,.
no sweat no drama no tragedy no melodrama no divino comedia.

I think in this columnist's case, he gives lip service to the idea of religious freedom, yet thinks everyone should obey *his.* In one breath he says he's thankful for religious freedom, and in the next says only people bing thankful to *his* God 'count.'

'Christian Nation' distortions of history are in fact well-known code words for theocratic movements in American public life, ones that say 'freedom of conscience' doesn't extend to those whose conscience doesn't tell them to make gays second-class citizens based on certain interpretations of certain religions, to have Pagan soldiers recognized by military and prison chaplains, or to have their faith recognized with the others on gravestones...

'Christian Nation' advocates seem to be a little unclear on how far from religious freedom it is to have government buildings put up *written commandments* of what God to worship and the like, never mind trying to write discriination *into* American laws based on their idea that some people are inherently 'sinners'.

Comparing America to certain Islamic states' abuses doesn't change these facts: there isn't even supposed to *be* any comparison.

TO JERRY:

You wrote, "...in a land where admitting to being a Christian can often be a death sentence because of the intolerance of Islam towards any other faith. Islam truly seeks the creation of a theocracy.", and that is exactly right.

I have wrote many times and I repeat: God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof. Jesus is Who He said that He is and that is God-Incarnate.

I have also said that I do not hold it against Mohammed that he was deceived, Jesus is not a second-rate prophet but He is God-Incarnate and isn't it just like satan to try and hijack God-Incarnate and call Him a second-rate prophet.

I wish you well over there in Iraq, remember we are all God's children, no matter what anyone believes.

When I was in the army in Vietnam, I was treated very well by the Vietnamese and even tho I didn't like the army, I thank God that I was drafted and was sent to Vietnam. I hope that you have met some of the Iraqis and have been treated alright.

I have met God and God is a Trinity and God is PURE LOVE. God has a Plan and His Plan is for all of His children to be in His Kingdom contrary to what some of the people that call themselves "christian" would have others think.

I did not ask to be the New Testament Moses, I didn't even know there was suppose to be one, but someone had to be me.

It is really sad that so many people twist the bible into such utter, vile, bitter hatred, since God is so much nicer than some of the people that call themselves "christian" think that He is, and even sadder; that some of them even want Him to be.

Another thing that I have said before and I repeat: It is important what you do and why you do it and what you know.

Take care and remember, God wins, satan loses, a tie is unacceptable.

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Galatians:

Repeatedly posting your demonstrably false nonsense does not make it true. You might want to learn something about American history before you pontificate about it.

Since this is a Christian Nation founded on Christian principles by Bible-believing Chrsitians like the Puritans, I offer here the Puritan's Prayer of Thanksgiving.

O my God,

Thou fairest, greatest, first of all objects,
my heart admires, adores, loves thee,
for my little vessel is as full as it can be,
and I would pour out all that fullness before thee in ceaseless flow.

When I think upon and converse with thee ten thousand delightful thoughts spring up,
ten thousand sources of pleasure are unsealed,
ten thousand refreshing joys spread over my heart,
crowding every moment of happiness.

I bless thee for the soul thou hast created,
for adorning it,
sanctifying it,
though it is fixed in barren soil;
for the body thou hast given me,
for preserving its strength and vigor,
for providing senses to enjoy delights,
for the ease of freedom of my limbs,
for hands, eyes, ears that do thy bidding;
for thy royal bounty providing my daily support,
for a full table and overflowing cup,
for appetite, taste, sweetness,
for social joys of relatives and friends,
for ability to serve others,
for a heart that feels sorrows and necessities,
for a mind to care for my fellow-men,
for opportunities of spreading happiness around,
for loved ones in the joys of heaven,
for my own expectation of seeing thee clearly.

I love thee above the powers of language to express, for what thou art to thy creatures.

Increase my love, O my God, through time and eternity.

— Valley of Vision, Arthur Bennett, Banner of Truth, 1975

Reasonable...:

There are millions of Christian dominionists in the U.S. who do in fact seek theocracy. Check out the followers of the philosophy of the late John Rushdoony or Greg Bahnsen, or Larry Pratt or Randall Terry or Joseph Seidler or many others.

That said, I believe in free speech, and, as despicable as he is, Cal Thomas has as much right to express himself as anyone else.

Jerry:

You are not fighting for anything in Iraq except to help Bush prove that he has larger genitalia than his father.

HOMOPHOBIC CAL IS PROOF THAT RELIGION POISONS EVERYTHING IT TOUCHES!

Thanks to Doug and Athena. May those that have the capacity to decipher be allowed to do so and to express the results. For them we are indeed thankful.

I must say that I also agree that Cal has the right to voice his opinion. No one should use lies, distortions, or innuendoes like the red herring argument of "wanting a theocracy" to try to discourage others from reading what Cal has to say. You may not like Christianity or those who profess their Christian faith for whatever reason, but that profession does not make them evil. They have the right to speak of their faith, just as I serve here in Iraq at this moment to defend that right...in a land where admitting to being a Christian can often be a death sentence because of the intolerance of Islam towards any other faith. Islam truly seeks the creation of a theocracy. Christianity got over that mistaken desire of people ruling humanity in God's name many centuries ago.

Doug and Athena- first off, Doug- why do you think that evangelicals (that are 25% of the population) should not be represented by Cal ? Don't like the opinion- don't read it !

Athena- there is no evidence at all that Cal or anyone else wants a theocracy. It is a straw man argument in your case, or just scare tactics. Fabrication and just plain false.

It is like this with many of you that don't like religion- you just want YOUR opinion heard, and anything else must be put down or shouted down, or lied about.

I am thankful that Muslim women like Ayaan Hirsi Ali have the courage and the freedom to tell the truth about Islam as she did so in her book, Infidel.

A summary from the Washington Post book review:

"Thus begins the extraordinary story of a woman born into a family of desert nomads, circumcised as a child, educated by radical imams in Kenya and Saudi Arabia, taught to believe that if she uncovered her hair, terrible tragedies would ensue. It's a story that, with a few different twists, really could have led to a wretched life and a lonely death, as her grandmother warned. But instead, Hirsi Ali escaped -- and transformed herself into an internationally renowned spokeswoman for the rights of Muslim women."

I'm thankful that we still have freedom of worship DESPITE Cal and his fellow Fundamentalist Christians wanting to turn this country into a theocracy!

Good Lord, I cannot believe that the OnFaith editors voluntarily debase their own creation by including Cal's tripe as a part of the site's offerings. Can't you at least segregate him from the other panelists? Create a subsection of OnFaith called Lunatic Fringe, or Evangelical Amen Corner. Cal is not a religious thinker, he is a non-thinking zealot.