All Comments (43)

I think this is a good website

Ay Capt.
The coarse you lay down is strait sharp as me blade.
Yea upon your final order yet my courage does fade.
For when I stop to looking without and perchance a look within,
All I encounter is me own- black- sin.

Ah people of little faith,how great your hunger for truth is. Ask and it will be shown to you.Then prove it to yourself.Stop looking without and look within.

Ah people of little faith,how great your hunger for truth is. Ask and it will be shown to you.Then prove it to yourself.Stop looking without and look within.

Strange isn't it these people find child molestation to be utterly unexceptable but see nothing wrong with Mohhammed the Prophet who grates to have had sex with a 9 year old girl!.

Michael,

Anonymous get his/her trash from some non-verfiable Islamic website. I researched his/her garbage and that is what I found out.

I vote let's leave it in the pit!

anonymous says:

"The Talmud teaches thats its ok for Rabbi's to molest Goyem (GENTILE), children.

THe Talmud is perversion.

Rabbi's are molesting Children world wide"

anonymous your words are complete and utter lies and fabrication. They reflect your desperation.
Come out into the LIGHT and verify those words or crawl back into whatever pit you came from.

The Talmud teaches thats its ok for Rabbi's to molest Goyem (GENTILE), children.

THe Talmud is perversion.

Rabbi's are molesting Children world wide.

The history of some belief is in no way an argument for its validity. The long history of the flat earth belief didn't make it flat.

If works mean anything at all why do the goats stand condemned?

who would pay any attention to this goofy fool?

Jesus, help us all!

Thank you!

Bob

Concerned the Christian Now Liberated:

You know, I think you have something there. Ill bet our creator may get a chuckle or two watching our 'reality'

Good point.

4th watch: I guess it gives license for us to do bad all our life and ask for Jesus in the end..'cause we will be saved after all!!

TDAY,

Are you sure? The whole cosmos and our "reality" might be "reality TV" for a more intelligent species.

The Christian belief and history of the same is superstition only to those who do not recognize physical evidence.

The dead sea scrolls, Epic of Gilgamesh, Law code of Hammurabi, the writings of Flavius Josephus...all merely the tip of the iceberg of physical evidence.

There is much more evidence of a consistent belief in a creator God thru the history of mankind than there is evidence of a big bang theory. There is a fundamental reason for this. And the reason is not superstition.

The fact that each individual human being on this earth is but a mere spec in the whole of the universe, and that mere spec has the ability to design and create in their own realm, in and of itself presents the logical progression of thought that there is a 'something' that took the time to design and create us in a way, but on a higher scale, similar to how we do the same. To think otherwise puts us humans at the center of the universe, which we are not.

To me, watching the miracles of nature, with dozens and dozens of new species being discovered all the time, reading about all the exciting discoveries of the universe and the human brain (the place of feeling and thinking), the realization what a huge microbic biotope constitutes what I can experience as "I", with billions and billions of microbes assembled in my ("our!") body, rendering my life possible - that is what I mean when talking about "value". That is my true open religion, full of miracles and wonders, (miracles far above a guy walking on water!) not a closed system someone tries to force on me.

All this immense information, love, awe, communication, art, music, poetry, the infinite wonders of human possibilities, the enigmas and still only partly understood laws of physics, based on thorough education and a lifelong evolution - all this is a hundred times more valuable to me than the stale religious bible quotations from childhood, with their primitive reward and punishment system that limit the human freedom of thinking, even of existing.

Stagnation ("security") instead of evolution ("freedom") - that is what the standardized religions propagate.

Only in the above sense I can accept a sort of "religious atheism" or "atheistic religion", not in the silly aggressive sense religionists feel entitled to use when looking down in their hypocritical contempt at everybody who refuses to subscribe to their particular brand of superstition.

And I demand the right of this free thinking!

Be good to others because it is simply the right thing to do.

How do we know what Jesus said?

Did he have a stenographer following him around all day? Was pen and paper readily available? A tape recorder?

Could you accurately quote conversations and stories that occured decades ago?

Even today with modern technology there are argument as to who said what to whom exactly and when, under what circumstances, etc, etc, etc...

Yet we are to believe that he is quoted EXACTLY by authors years and years after his death in a book that we know has had multiple mis-translations and probable editing over the past several thousand years.

How do we really know what he said?

It is an honest question.

A points out “The claim of being saved even if you don’t do any good in life but repent at the end does not hold.”
Where then are we to place the thief on the cross, to whom Christ assured a place in Paradise that crucifixion day?~ Luke23:39-43~ This thief was mere minutes from death yet Jesus understood his plea to be remembered as a demonstration of true faith, that saved him.
So just which claim holds water, which one leaks?

Viejita,

Hi.

Just curious. Why do you take the "O" out of God when you write it?

Anyway, if your asking me if the "righteous gentile" can recieve salvation, your asking the wrong person. Ask God. He's the judge.

Romans 10:6-8

6But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'[b]" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7"or 'Who will descend into the deep?'[c]" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,"[d] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:

The concept of the righteous gentile comes from Judaism, I think, but seems pertinent to this discussion. You hear the term most often in reference to those who assisted Jews during WWII. It refers to someone who follows G-d's commandments and/or commits righteous acts even without having been educated as to what is righteous, following a virtuous instinct, perhaps.
I'm no theologian so I hope I've got it right. Basically it is a non-believer whose acts are as good as or better than the faithful. As a child I was told there was a special place in heaven for such souls.
In the contemporary world, I fear that Christianity is plagued by so many noxious self-appointed spokespersons that many who possess this righteous instinct may be driven off.

Of course God in not displeased by good works of those not born again. Good works are good works. If a believer feeds the poor or an un-believer feeds the poor, what's the difference? They both are doing good works, right? I do think He would be displeased in those who do not believe in Him and the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross for all of us.

What do you mean about the "concept of the righteous gentile"?

So let me get this straight: Do you mean to imply that G-d is displeased by good works if the person is not "born-again"? What about the concept of the righteous gentile?

From Professor Crossan's book, The Historic Jesus, 210. Place of Life: (1) Dial. Sav. 27-30, (2) John 14:2-12; Not said by the historical Jesus-

Crossan analysis:
http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php/210

_Place_of_Life
Item: 210
Stratum: II (60-80 CE)
Attestation: Double
Historicity: not said by the historic Jesus (a later embellishment)
Common Sayings Tradition: No

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar

A,

Maybe you missed this:

"He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (John 14:6-9)

or

"I and the Father are one."

Sounds to me that Jesus says he is the Father as well.

When you say "from the Father" your exactly right. Where is the Father? In heaven. So Jesus is from heaven. When he is in heaven he is known as the "Father", when he was on earth as man, he was known as the "Son". It is His positional aspect that seperates the names.

You said,

The point is - being in faith does not guarantee good deeds and doing good deeds does not necessarily co-relate with a person's faith.

Your exactly right. Anyone can do good deeds. Believer on non.

You also said,

So the claim of being saved even if you dont do any good in life but repent at the end does not hold.

I'm trying to understand you point. But I think you are saying that for example; someone is on their deathbed who had no faith their whole life and repents and says they believe in Jesus should not be saved right? If this is what you mean then I should respond by saying, I DONT KNOW? I'm not God. How should I know if his repentence is a true heart-felt testimony?

I say I am saved according to the Biblical standards. I know in my heart that Jesus died for my sins and resurrected on the third day. The day I not only said this but felt it and knew in my heart it was real was the day I was saved. Now I believe that works cannot get us into heaven. It is by faith alone. That doesn't mean that I can sit back and say "Hey I'm saved, now I can be lazy!" Not at all. I WANT to do good works to please God. Once I truly understood what God did for me, I realized how much I wanted to follow in His works. I believe the works I do are not of my own, but of Christ's who works through me. I also, believe that because I accepted Christ, I should try to refrain from my sinful nature. See I used the word "try". I know I am a sinner. But I know I am forgiven as well. I do think that refraining from a sinful life is more important to our salvations than good works. Sin seperates us from God. Works cannot bring us to God. So what is more important? Living a holy life. If we live a holy life, we will want to do good works to please God, not for our sakes but for His glory.

God bless

Using passages from John's gospels to prove the deity and words of Jesus is poor biblical scholarship since it is the least reliable of the gospels. Luke 2:27,33,41,48 would be the better passages.

To see an in-depth analyses of these passages, see Professor Crossan's book the Historical Jesus.

Jesus' "deity" also requires a heavenly father. See Professor Bruce Chilton's book, Rabbi Jesus, for his detailed analyses of the required virgin birth.

In the book, Chilton develops the idea of Jesus as a mamzer; someone whose irregular birth circumstances result in their exclusion from full participation in the life of the community. He argues for the natural paternity of Joseph and finds no need for a miraculous conception. In his subsequent reconstruction of Jesus' life, Chilton suggests that this sustained personal experience of exclusion played a major role in Jesus' self-identity, his concept of God and his spiritual quest."

David, the key word is "from the father"- so there is a father- and that exactly is the point-Jesus never claimed himself to be the Father..anyway thats besides the point since there are many instances where the first person claim has been made by many. The point is - being in faith does not guarantee good deeds and doing good deeds does not necessarily co-relate with a person's faith. So the claim of being saved even if you dont do any good in life but repent at the end does not hold.

I hope I can get "genuinely" saved from the hypocritical and superstitious nonsense the "syndicated" columnist Thomas tries to spread to make a well-heeled living on it.

A,

Jesus did call Himself God, several times.

The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple. (John 8:57-59)

"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (John 14:6-9)

What kind of "good works" or "faith" doth the pious-sounding George W. Bush evince by occupying a country illegally, pointlessly, unaffordably and counter to the Christian principle of "just war" not to mention "love they neighbor as thyself", "all men are brothers", "turn the other cheek" and "judge not lest ye be judged". The blood, deaths and mutilations of more than 600,000 Iraqis and tens of thousands of Americans are now on his lily-white hands. And by what neocromancy of faith and works does Reverend Cal justify his support of that occupation? Let us turn, brethren, to the Good Book, Matthew 25, wherein Jesus views hypocrisy as a serious sin and compares hypocrites to a whited sepulcher, pure without, foul within. Yea, come to the light, Brother Cal, cast off your illusions, confess your satanic neoconservative failings, your complicity in the sins of Cheney and Bush, the utter hypocrisy of such as you deigning to lecture the rest of us on faith and morals from a base of wickedness, mendacity and cant. Join our flock: IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST.

cal,kick the dust from your shoes and walk away. there are some mean people here.where is the mean girl when you need her.

A Statement Against the Church and a Personal God
About God, I cannot accept any concept based on the authority of the Church. As long as I can remember, I have resented mass indocrination. I do not believe in the fear of life, in the fear of death, in blind faith. I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God, but if I were to speak of him, I would be a liar. I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws.

—W. Hermanns, Einstein and the Poet—In Search of the Cosmic Man (Branden Press, Brookline Village, Mass., 1983), p.132, quoted in Jammer, p.123.

Maxine;
Your post was absolutely right on.Keep making sense Maxine.You're nor wasting your breath.
People have to speak out against the nonsense called religion,just so other non-believers know they're not alone.

In answer to "Mortal"- if one reads the Hindu scriptures which is wrongly represented by saying that "it is a religion of 10000 gods"- Krishna has stated in the first person that He is God- there is no one above him-between him- or below him. He is the supreme..and all this 2000 years before Jesus!!

I am sure similar things have been said in other scriptures also..the point being we should strive to do good..do good to humanity and let God decide if we have done good enough to get to heaven..'cause having faith does not guarantee good deeds and doing good deeds does not guarantee faith- in any religion

Works without faith do find favor in God's eyes because it is important what you do and why you do it. People that do not even believe in God but do the right thing because it is the right thing to do most definitely do find favor in God's eyes. You cannot earn your way to the "good place" that is true, but to think that God is such an egomaniac that knowing His Name is more important than being a decent person to your brothers and sisters, which happen to be humanity, is absolutely absurd. Jesus said, "I Am the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except thru Me", If you let that sink in you will notice that there could be untold number of ways to get to Jesus, who happens to be the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. Some people that call themselves christians need to get off of their self-righteous, holier than thou attitudes and maybe actually become christian. Sometimes God gives a person a very simple job like telling the whole planet that God wins, satan loses and a tie is totally unacceptable and that person happens to be me. As God says I will send the simple to confound the wise. Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

In answer to "A":

I would say the closest Jesus ever came to a straight-out declaration of divinity would be when He answered a question with, "Before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:58), which of course refers back to God's revealing of the divine name to Moses in Exodus, Chapter 3 ("I am who am", Douay Rheims translation).

Christian salvation is not mainly about "not going to hell after you die."

That is a Biblical concern, but clearly not the major one. If the God of the Bible is the one true God of All Things, like the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures claim, then what he calls sin is real. We're not talking about moralism, about looking down one's nose at others, or about an Old Man In A Rocking Chair In The Sky zapping people with thunderbolts if they act naughty.

The God of Jesus Christ created the cosmos, and gave us the opportunity to break it. We did. We continue to break it, in a thousand little ways every day. So that God launched a mission to rescue his good creation. He didn't start a program that made sense to us, or that would make us look good. He started a plan that would let some of us, those who want to, get involved in His Way of rescuing His creation.

The Israel of Jesus' day had no interest in anyone but Israel. They believed that God would empower Israel to conquer 'the nations', particularly Rome, and then all Israel would be resurrected to live in the Promised Land and judge the world.

They thought too small. They saw a little enemy. God saw the big enemy. Rome was just a pawn for the real power of Sin/Death.

Jesus warned that continuing to resist by violence, continuing to cut off one another, hating and judging instead of loving and serving, would lead to the destruction of Israel. He, as the true Israelite, was led outside the city of Jerusalem and was crushed by that destruction. If Rome, serving sin and death, could destroy the innocent One, how would it respond to the guilty nation?

But Jesus did not stay in the tomb. He defeated death in the flesh... he was resurrected to a NEW life, somewhat like his former life, but fuller, realer, more perfect. He had changed, and yet remained the same. And he empowered and commanded his people to do for the world what he had done for Israel: to accept the punishment and offer a new way, a way of rescue. Israel rejected the path of peace, the Prince of Peace, continued to try and be Israel by fighting Rome, and was destroyed.

Men and women in 2007 can continue trying to be human according to the ways around them, the ways of the world. Greed, anger, lust, malice, pride, self-fulfillment: all these lead to one thing - destruction of one's fellowman. You can cling to your old way of being human, or you can follow The Jesus Way. That was the offer in the 1st century, and that is still the offer today.

in HIS love,
Nick

has Jesus ever said that he is GOD..in his own words??

Only thing he missed is the name of God:

JESUS CHRIST

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

"GET saved"? "Get with it"? "Get your arse out of bed"? Whether or not you are "saved," you have reduced the concept of salvation to its lowest level.

The idea of "I'm saved/you're not/you can be if you will just listen and put a big bill in the plate" has created as much spiritual and psychological and psychological pain and suffering as any phenomenon in this world.

Go back to the Gospels. To the Dead Sea scrolls.
To the most ancient texts. And stay there. No
more extrapolations, no more threats about the rewards and punishments in the next world. No more judging the people YOU define as sinners.

Jesus was plain and straight forward.

Today's evangelists are contorted and devious--and far, far too well heeled.

The threat that any person who does not buy into your theology will burn in Hell eternally is barbarous. Why not just bring back the Spanish Inquisitions and have done with it?

Cal Thomas, you told the truth on that one.

And we all know that the BEST place to save is...WalMart...

Basically!