Syndicated political columnist and “On Faith” panelist Cal Thomas has a twice-weekly column that appears in over 500 newspapers around the world. A graduate of American University, Thomas is a veteran of broadcast and print journalism. He has worked for NBC, CNBC, PBS television, and the Fox News Channel where he currently appears on the weekly media critique show, “Fox News Watch.” Thomas has authored ten books, including Blinded by Might: Can the Religious Right Save America?, A Freedom Dream, Public Persons and Private Lives, Book Burning, Liberals for Lunch, Occupied Territory, The Death of Ethics in America, Uncommon Sense and Things That Matter Most. His latest was The Wit and Wisdom of Cal Thomas. In 1995, Thomas was honored with a Cable Ace Award nomination for Best Interview Program. Other awards include a George Foster Peabody team reporting award, and awards from both the Associated Press and United Press International. Common Ground, which Thomas writes for USA Today, offers insightful discussion of contentious social issues with his friend and political counterpart, Bob Beckel. The two are working together on a book to be published in 2007.
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Cal Thomas
Syndicated political columnist
Syndicated political columnist and “On Faith” panelist Cal Thomas has a twice-weekly column that appears in over 500 newspapers around the world. A graduate of American University, Thomas is a veteran of broadcast and print journalism.
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Cindy,
yes I am linaged. I am Witch and Wiccan...but then in my trad they are the same...the younger set thinks them different.
E Favorite,
We do not have a hell, nor a devil... We have self responcibility and karma. It is a religion that makes you think, you decide. There are no laws laid out as "thou shalt nots". It is principles that you have to set and live by...like honor. How you live with honor is up to you..you do have free will. Life is full of choices and you have to choose how you want to live according to the ethics and principles you adopt. Enlightenment is the goal...not to be rewarded after you die..but how you live in the now.
I worship the Lady and Lord...To me worshipping just the Goddess is just as unbalanced as only worshipping a male god.
Magick is a tool, but our foundation is the Gods.We are structured, we do have a hierarchy. But we are ecclectic in that we are democratic, not like the Hard Guards. We are based on Blue Star with some growth changes. We are there for the people...not the other way around.
Here is our website-
www.wisteria-tradition.com
click the Lady...lol.
Yes there are many trads as far as Wicca goes. But they are different mainly in the cosmetics, except for the Dianics...then they do have a affiliated trad that is God and Goddess centered.
I think the mainline description of supernatural is very mistaken. They think of the fairy tales instead of the real that is part of the natural energies. But they are not at fault... they only know what they have been told what supernatural means; something out of the natural, something made up.
Alot of what Witches believe is now called quantum physics...I am so excited about the String Theory! It explains so much of what we have always believed. Is it supernatural now? no its science. lol. Like hundreds of years ago Leonardo scetched a helocopter, a submarine, and many other things that are everyday now...they were fantasy then...
I understand you are a Wiccan. There is so much that people don't know about Wiccans because there are many different types. I was curious as to what type of Wiccan you are. Do you practice Dianic Wicca, which worships only the Goddess? Do you believe that the gods are able to manifest in personal form? Are you more of a lineaged Wiccan who performs magic, or more eclectic and less structured?
There are so many different types of Wiccans, that just saying Wiccan leaves many questions unanswered. It's like someone saying "I don't believe in the supernatural, so I would like to be a Pagan." That person has absolutely no idea what they just said!
Well Cal, you did not answer the question. The question asked about the relationship between repentance and forgiveness. You talked only about being repentent. That may be good for one's soul but I have to wonder what has happened to forgiveness. I think it has disappeared more than repentence. Maybe its our culture that likes to pile on those who have been shown to be hipocritical or made seriously poor choices. Late night TV is full of this piling on. And I include you Cal in those who show a lack of forgiveness to others. For that I forgive you.
E. Favorite,
I think that people think that religion is only one thing. The word religion means to take you back to the source...it does not say what that source is,or how you get there.
To me that source is what is behind creation...what caused the big bang, what caused the womb that was the early oceans, what caused the first life appear in that oceanic womb. Why does being in nature bring such peace and happiness? Is that the Source? To me it is.
I think that all life carries the DNA of it's creator, just as we carry the DNA of our birth parents. Each tree and sqirrel, each grain of sand and river holds energy, and the birth of that energy comes from the Source. We are One, as we all come from the same place, born from the same source...
God does not have to be the old testiment god of jealousy and killing...it does not have to be one of stern judgeing and fear. Find what way takes you to joy and living in a way that you are loving life in all parts of it.
As a little kid I talked to the water sprites in the creek that ran by our house. Was that a kid's imagination? I don't know, as a grown up I had to wonder if it was a dream. They might have been the energies of that creek. All I know is that my chats with them gave me great pleasure and left me with a feeling of being given a gift.
So my faith is also a gift, one I have been blessed to find. I wish everyone to find that which makes them walk in joy each day. The less people are sad and spreading misery, the better.
Russell,
My reply is in Starhawk's Page. I think you might be interested in some experiments that have been done. It was with what is called Kirlian photography...is the aura that people sense or see part of your energy, or your ethric body?
Russell D - Yes - I notice energy - have a pretty good nose for it, I think, though some of it is hard to miss -e.g. people with incredible sex appeal, charisma -- or both!
Also related are intuition, gut reaction and first impressions. While I think some people are better at it than others, I think we all have it and some people just know how to pay attention to it.
I notice it a lot going into different offices, too. Easy to tell which ones are terrible places to work.
This may be more for you, and I'd like your opinion on it, as well as any others who would like to offer it, but I thought this might be interesting.
I don't really claim a religion, and I am not a big spiritual person, yet I have always had a belief in the Energy of things. I can feel it in things, and especially, I can feel it in people. Ever notice how some people seem to have a presence about them or an inner fire? I believe it boils down to that person's personal energy. Some have more, and some have less. I have been told that I have this strong energy, and I notice it in other people, such as my third child(and she's only a baby), my wife, and other people I come in contact with. This energy is what other people respond to. It has always fascinated me and I was just wondering what you guys thought about it. I'd love to hear all thoughts on it. and I will post this On Starhawk's post also. Thanks guys!
You say ditch the supernatural. Super Natural. Ultra Natural...In all Nature.
I speak for myself only, my thoughts, and not all Pagans.
ok I may rapt poetic.
When I go out under the dark sky that is lit with a full moon, I hear the night sounds...the owls and the wind through the trees...I take a deep breath and I know God. Ok not the Christian God...not the god of the bible. But what I call God, Goddess, The All. It is the life force behind all life, it is in the wind, the leaves, the grass and the breath I take.
I stand under that moon and I know that from the beginning of time there had been women that have stood under that same moon, taken that deep breath and felt that connection to All.
Our senses took in all the smells, sounds, the trees that are touched by silver by the moonlight, the feel of the night on every inch of skin. That all is god. Supernatural? Yes...it is super and it is natural, and I am connected as a web to all of it.
I have a room dedicated to my religious pratice. It is set aside for the sacred...I do not wear shoes in that room, it is used for worship and meditation...incense is burned...nag champa, candles lit and music used. It is a room where when you walk in you are instantly calmed. It is like a place outside of my house, no noise of dogs and cats, a husband, TV and just the noices of living. It is quieter, like noise is sofened, thoughts are soothed. People have gone in there and said, they could lay down and sleep. It is a place where the mundain is seperate.
In that room am again worshipping that entity God/goddess, that balance that is all things...it is no old man in the sky with a big book of judgement, it is no pointing finger saying what is sin and what is allowed. It is something that says that what furthers life is good and what brings harm to it and causes life to disrespect itself is bad.
That is my god. And I see it in all things in the universe.
Terra, - Absolutely! “The subconscious needs more then words, it does not understand words. It understands symbols and things of the emotion..color, scent, sound.. that is what uplifts the soul."
I think that's what's made Catholicism so successful over the centuries. I’m all for keeping the timeless color, scent and sound and ditching the outdated supernatural beliefs.
Ritual talks to the soul. Today so many churches look like garages, like god was needing a lube job. There is no beauty, no incense floating up to give essence to the prayers, no soaring music to enliven the heart...no taste of paradise with the colored light from the stained glass windows to paint the floor between the pews.
There is not that silence filled with expectation of god. Instead there is blue jeans and thoughts of getting home for the football game.
Where is the sacred? What seperates the mundain from the sacred? Do you go before your god not with your best, but with your "good enough"?
The subconscious needs more then words, it does not understand words. It understands symbols and things of the emotion..color, scent, sound.. that is what uplifts the soul.
Deb - I've seen people in the Catholic church I grew up in wearing shorts and flip-flops. Don't know how Jesus felt, but I found it quite unattractive - like showing up that way for a wedding or a night at the theatre. Getting dressed up is a way of saying church is special.
I think that the ritual of the Catholic church derived from Roman rituals. People love rituals and use them in all sorts of situations (like half-time shows at football games). I suppose even evangelical churches have some typical routines - just not involving satin robes and funny hats and incense.
I'll tell you what, if you ever get back to basics, the way they did it in biblical times, you're going to have to get rid of the rock band and the sound system - and probably the shouting.
Deb: Your church sounds like mine. We avoid the camo shorts in the winter though (because its too cold outside) :)
I can't imagine going to a church where you feel out of place by not dressing up a certain way. Or should I say "going back to a church...". I remember battling my parents as a kid to wear jeans to church back in the day. Jesus doesn't care about anybodys suit and tie.
"I believe the Baptists believe that being baptized washes away your sins and is the act that "saves" you"
I understand that a lot of these traditions are centuries old, and people are so used to growing up doing and seeing things done a certain way. But I think these days, more and more, people are starting to take a closer look at why some of these things are done, and what purpose they serve. Are they being done for God's sake, or for ours? Is this the way Christ taught us to worship, or did it serve some other purpose? Did it take our minds off of what was important - worshipping God, and instead make us become preoccupied with "the law" of religion?
Yea, I never understood all the formality that comes with going to church. If I want, I should be able to go in a pair of camouflage shorts and flip flops dangit! The lord ain't gonna care what you look like, only what you are there for. Why all the emphasis on in being so proper?
There is a lot about Catholicism that I don't agree with. I couldn't say scrap it all, but it seems to me that there is a lot about it that doesn't seem biblical, or rather seems to be a twisting of biblical teaching. That is taken as a matter of opinion, and therein lies a major split between Catholics and Protestants. Although some things are followed by other denominations as well. I believe the Baptists believe that being baptized washes away your sins and is the act that "saves" you.
I guess the thing that bothers me the most is all of the "pomp and cirmumstance". That was never meant to be a part of Christianity; never. All of the ritual and blessing with "holy" water and incense and kneeling and standing and incantations and wearing of specific garments. To what end? Is all of that glorifying God? Is that giving praise to the Lord? Or should you just wear your regular clothes and maybe sing some songs that everyone understands and talk about how the things you do every day are a reflection of the type of person you are, and pray to God for some guidance and understanding?
Maybe the problem with Christian education is that we spend too much time and energy arguing about whose "brand" is the correct one, implying that every other denomination or church community must be incorrect. Most of the so-called nondenominational churches are the worst, led by charismatic pastors who answer to no one. The multiplicity of churches arose because of abuse of authority, and the idea that sheep in a different field might be well-tended makes the would-be monopolists of monotheism nervous.
To Cal Thomas: You quoted King David, "Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight." (Psalm 51:4).
If David really said that, he was dead wrong. The evil he did was against Bathsheba and her husband. He should have been asking her for forgiveness (too late for the husband). Perhaps you are one of the Christians who reserves the word "sin" for an action that offends God, in which case David did not "sin" against Bathsheba and her husband, but he most certainly did them evil. He should have sought forgiveness from the people he wronged. And we should do likewise.
Deb - are you sure you not talking about Catholics? "celibacy of priests, the papacy, forced conversion and murder of non-believers, refusals of mixed-religion marriages, baptism as a cleansing of sins, drinking alcohol as sin, worship of saints..."
Everything but drinking of alcohol applies to Catholics. This I know, because the priest who was looking in on my obstreperous mother suggested I calm myself with a nice glass of pino grigio.
I prefer caberet.
Back on topic - sounds like getting back to christian roots means getting rid of catholism, right?
Not beer with communion, silly. Though...what an idea! I was also raised Lutheran..beer aplenty at after church events (receptions, baptisms, the like) but that may have more to do with the German aspect of it...
Deb,
Funny you brought up Soylent Green. My fiancee brought that movie home from the library two days ago.
And, see, you're joining in with this side conversation. You should apologize to me for telling me to apologize! Look, mistakes were made. I am sorry you were offended. I take full responsibility.
Seriously, they drank wine all throughout the bible. Even Jesus drank wine. It doesn't say in the bible anywhere "don't drink alcohol"; but it does say "don't get drunk." ;)
"When the Berlin Wall fell and Eastern Europe escaped from the shackles of communism, I wrote that we must not forget the enablers, apologists and other "fellow travelers" who helped sustain communism's grip on a sizable portion of humanity for much of the 20th century. I suggested that a "cultural war crimes tribunal" be convened, at which people from academia, the media, government and the clergy who were wrong in their assessment of communism would be forced to confront their mistakes. While not wishing to deprive anyone of his or her right to be wrong, it wouldn't hurt for these people to be held accountable.
That advice was not taken - but today we are presented with another opportunity in the form of scores of false media prophets who predicted disaster should the U.S. military confront and seek to oust the murderous regime of Saddam Hussein. The purpose of a cultural war crimes tribunal would be to remind the public of journalism's many mistakes, as well as the errors of certain politicians and retired generals, and allow it to properly judge their words the next time they feel the urge to prophesy...
All of the printed and voiced prophecies should be saved in an archive. When these false prophets again appear, they can be reminded of the error of their previous ways and at least be offered an opportunity to recant and repent."
-----
Hmmmm...putting people on trial for holding the "wrong" opinions? Not very forgiving, or very American of you it seems to me...
Well, Mr. Thomas, since it turns out you, like the rest of the warmongers, were wrong about everything don't you think it's time you listened to your own advice here and took the opportunity to recant and repent? Unlike you I do not advocate show trials or Maoist style self-criticism sessions but there are plenty of us out here in the real world who are ready to remind you and the rest of the "false media prophets" who predicted flowers and candy in Iraq of the errors of your past prophecies and demand that you be held accountable, at least in the court of public opinion.
There have been many things over the centuries that have caused Christianity to wander from its roots because of their non-biblical rules. There are a few biggies that come to mind: celibacy of priests, the papacy, forced conversion and murder of non-believers, refusals of mixed-religion marriages, baptism as a cleansing of sins, drinking alcohol as sin, worship of saints...
So I'm not speaking specifically of just one denomination; but hopefully all will be able to get back to their roots.
Deb, you say, "I consider this to be the unfortunate truth caused by the morphing over the ages of Christianity into something that it was never meant to be."
Are you talking about roman Catholics?
Also, like Mr Mark, I'm hearing a lot of "they're not real Christians" when avowed Christians do something bad that embarrasses other Christians.
This thinking applies to atheists too. Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin weren't real athiests, you know. They couldn't even live up to the one simple atheist tenet - non-belief in God. No - they believed that they were God. It's so obvious.
There's a "wacko Christian" who stands on the sidewalk by a shopping area in my town EVERY day who holds up various signs that say things like "God is angry with you - why do you let your women dress like wh*res?" Now THAT is a wacko. I just want to give him some money to buy new clothes and a shower, but he won't take it. Makes me sad every time I see him...
Yes, there are some pretty wacky Christians on this board! The ones I see when the conversation turns to morals insist that without religion, there are no morals.
People thought and said all kinds of rude things about me when I was just a little Lutheran girl from a farm in Ohio...people are just mean.
"I must say that I have a larger problem with your line of reasoning, and that is the belief I often hear voiced by Xians that were it not for the moral center their religion provides, they would probably be out murdering, raping and pillaging."
Man, you must talk to some pretty wacky Christians! I would be really offended if someone had said that to me before I became a Christian (of course, I know there were a whole lot of people who thought all kinds of terrible things about me when I was just a nice little Jewish girl from the Bronx.) :)
"I am talking about a specific education in Christian teaching. Not the domain of public schools."
Thanks for the clarification.
As a father with 2 kids in public school (elementary & middle), I can't think of anything that Xian teaching could add to the citizenship awareness my kids have received in their public school systems (they've attended schools in the east and west).
Most schools have a "RESPECT" program, wherein children are given an easy-to-remember list of principles to follow at school. My 4th-grade daughter joined the mediator program as part of her school's leadership initiative. This program involved her attending 2 days of mediator training at the local CalState campus. Twice a month, she spends her lunch hour as part of a 2-person team that helps kids mediate any problems/conflicts that may have arisen that day. If the conflict is out of hand, they refer it to the faculty, but many of these conflicts are simple playground incidents that the kids can and do resolve among themselves.
From what I have observed, my daughter and her friends have effectively extended the ideas behind the RESPECT program to their own relationships. More often than not, any conflicts these kids have among themselves get resolved within the day and don't seem to fester into the kids being on the outs with each other for any length of time.
Importantly, this program is entirely secular in its approach, and it seems to work quite well. It proves that even children can resolve differences without the motivation of some invisible, all-powerful baby sitter looking over their shoulders.
I must say that I have a larger problem with your line of reasoning, and that is the belief I often hear voiced by Xians that were it not for the moral center their religion provides, they would probably be out murdering, raping and pillaging. That is a false premise if I ever heard one, and it can be disproven in an instant by asking a very simple question: if you had no god to give you a moral center, would you visit such murder, rape and pillage upon your own children? I believe that most people would answer, "no." It then logically follows that if you can have moral clarity based on your relationship to your family absent the input from a god, you can just as well have moral clarity when dealing with the rest of the world without input from a god.
Human beings do not need god or religion to have moral clarity in their lives.
Food for thought when reading a column by Cal Thomas:
"When the Berlin Wall fell and Eastern Europe escaped from the shackles of communism, I wrote that we must not forget the enablers, apologists and other "fellow travelers" who helped sustain communism's grip on a sizable portion of humanity for much of the 20th century. I suggested that a "cultural war crimes tribunal" be convened, at which people from academia, the media, government and the clergy who were wrong in their assessment of communism would be forced to confront their mistakes. While not wishing to deprive anyone of his or her right to be wrong, it wouldn't hurt for these people to be held accountable.
"That advice was not taken - but today we are presented with another opportunity in the form of scores of false media prophets who predicted disaster should the U.S. military confront and seek to oust the murderous regime of Saddam Hussein. The purpose of a cultural war crimes tribunal would be to remind the public of journalism's many mistakes, as well as the errors of certain politicians and retired generals, and allow it to properly judge their words the next time they feel the urge to prophesy...
"All of the printed and voiced prophecies should be saved in an archive. When these false prophets again appear, they can be reminded of the error of their previous ways and at least be offered an opportunity to recant and repent."
- Cal Thomas, April 15, 2003
Duet 18:22 "When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."
Duet 18:20 "But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die."
I am talking about a specific education in Christian teaching. Not the domain of public schools. I am saying that the education whether through private school, sunday school, etc. is currently ineffeicient to raise people to truly act like Christians in a modern culture. I think this can be seen since most adults have a very limited understanding of the faith they proclaim to hold. Therefore a large part of the blame of Christians not acting like Christians falls on us Christians for not having proper means to educate people. Again doesn't apply to everyone some are doing a great job.
a·tone·ment (ə-tōn'mənt)
n.
Amends or reparation made for an injury or wrong; expiation.
Reconciliation or an instance of reconciliation between God and humans.
Atonement Christianity. The reconciliation of God and humans brought about by the redemptive life and death of Jesus.
Professor Crossan's take on the Christian theology of atonement:
From his book, "Who is Jesus" co-authored with Richard Watts)
"Moreover, an atonement theology that says God sacrifices his own son in place of humans who needed to be punished for their sins might make some Christians love Jesus, but it is an obscene picture of God. It is almost heavenly child abuse, and may infect our imagination at more earthly levels as well. I do not want to express my faith through a theology that pictures God demanding blood sacrifices in order to be reconciled to us."
"Traditionally, Christians have said, 'See how Christ's passion was foretold by the prophets." Actually, it was the other way around. The Hebrew prophets did not predict the events of Jesus' last week; rather, many of those Christian stories were created to fit the ancient prophecies in order to show that Jesus, despite his execution, was still and always held in the hands of God."
"In terms of divine consistency, I do not think that anyone, anywhere, at any time, including Jesus, brings dead people back to life."
"In the 1970s there was a man in prison in Atlanta (Theriault or Therioux) who claimed he was getting messages from ECLAT and was the ECLATARIAN NAZARITE. He started the Church of New Song."
"Eclat" is a misspelling. Actually, the guy had proof that St. Peter was an ECLAIR, and that Krispy Kreme and Dunkin' Donuts were usurpers who suppressed the Church's true heritage...Sorry, I've been watching too much "South Park."
In the 1970s there was a man in prison in Atlanta (Theriault or Therioux) who claimed he was getting messages from ECLAT and was the ECLATARIAN NAZARITE. He started the Church of New Song. I think there was a long legal case.
Hey, Jacob, did I get close to your inspiration?Does anyone else remember this?
I would submit that a big reason more Christians don't act like Christians is because of poor eductaion. How can we expect them to act Christian if we don't teach them what that means? Not to discredit the schools and groups that are doing a good job but right now they are more the exception then the norm. I realize you don't believe in all that but you submitte
All Comments (130)
Cindy,
yes I am linaged. I am Witch and Wiccan...but then in my trad they are the same...the younger set thinks them different.
E Favorite,
We do not have a hell, nor a devil... We have self responcibility and karma. It is a religion that makes you think, you decide. There are no laws laid out as "thou shalt nots". It is principles that you have to set and live by...like honor. How you live with honor is up to you..you do have free will. Life is full of choices and you have to choose how you want to live according to the ethics and principles you adopt. Enlightenment is the goal...not to be rewarded after you die..but how you live in the now.
terra
May 1, 2007 4:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 1, 2007 16:57
PS...I really need to spell check before I click send.
Sketch not scetch..sheesh!
terra
May 1, 2007 4:43 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 1, 2007 16:43
I worship the Lady and Lord...To me worshipping just the Goddess is just as unbalanced as only worshipping a male god.
Magick is a tool, but our foundation is the Gods.We are structured, we do have a hierarchy. But we are ecclectic in that we are democratic, not like the Hard Guards. We are based on Blue Star with some growth changes. We are there for the people...not the other way around.
Here is our website-
www.wisteria-tradition.com
click the Lady...lol.
Yes there are many trads as far as Wicca goes. But they are different mainly in the cosmetics, except for the Dianics...then they do have a affiliated trad that is God and Goddess centered.
I think the mainline description of supernatural is very mistaken. They think of the fairy tales instead of the real that is part of the natural energies. But they are not at fault... they only know what they have been told what supernatural means; something out of the natural, something made up.
Alot of what Witches believe is now called quantum physics...I am so excited about the String Theory! It explains so much of what we have always believed. Is it supernatural now? no its science. lol. Like hundreds of years ago Leonardo scetched a helocopter, a submarine, and many other things that are everyday now...they were fantasy then...
Blessings,
terra
May 1, 2007 11:40 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 1, 2007 11:40
Terra Gazelle:
I understand you are a Wiccan. There is so much that people don't know about Wiccans because there are many different types. I was curious as to what type of Wiccan you are. Do you practice Dianic Wicca, which worships only the Goddess? Do you believe that the gods are able to manifest in personal form? Are you more of a lineaged Wiccan who performs magic, or more eclectic and less structured?
There are so many different types of Wiccans, that just saying Wiccan leaves many questions unanswered. It's like someone saying "I don't believe in the supernatural, so I would like to be a Pagan." That person has absolutely no idea what they just said!
May 1, 2007 10:06 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 1, 2007 10:06
Well Cal, you did not answer the question. The question asked about the relationship between repentance and forgiveness. You talked only about being repentent. That may be good for one's soul but I have to wonder what has happened to forgiveness. I think it has disappeared more than repentence. Maybe its our culture that likes to pile on those who have been shown to be hipocritical or made seriously poor choices. Late night TV is full of this piling on. And I include you Cal in those who show a lack of forgiveness to others. For that I forgive you.
May 1, 2007 8:25 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on May 1, 2007 08:25
Terra - I like that - "take you back to the source" -- not to some fairy tale land or to the depths of hell.
April 30, 2007 9:11 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 30, 2007 21:11
E. Favorite,
I think that people think that religion is only one thing. The word religion means to take you back to the source...it does not say what that source is,or how you get there.
To me that source is what is behind creation...what caused the big bang, what caused the womb that was the early oceans, what caused the first life appear in that oceanic womb. Why does being in nature bring such peace and happiness? Is that the Source? To me it is.
I think that all life carries the DNA of it's creator, just as we carry the DNA of our birth parents. Each tree and sqirrel, each grain of sand and river holds energy, and the birth of that energy comes from the Source. We are One, as we all come from the same place, born from the same source...
God does not have to be the old testiment god of jealousy and killing...it does not have to be one of stern judgeing and fear. Find what way takes you to joy and living in a way that you are loving life in all parts of it.
As a little kid I talked to the water sprites in the creek that ran by our house. Was that a kid's imagination? I don't know, as a grown up I had to wonder if it was a dream. They might have been the energies of that creek. All I know is that my chats with them gave me great pleasure and left me with a feeling of being given a gift.
So my faith is also a gift, one I have been blessed to find. I wish everyone to find that which makes them walk in joy each day. The less people are sad and spreading misery, the better.
Blessings,
terra
April 30, 2007 5:34 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 30, 2007 17:34
Russell,
My reply is in Starhawk's Page. I think you might be interested in some experiments that have been done. It was with what is called Kirlian photography...is the aura that people sense or see part of your energy, or your ethric body?
terra
April 30, 2007 4:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 30, 2007 16:59
Russell D - Yes - I notice energy - have a pretty good nose for it, I think, though some of it is hard to miss -e.g. people with incredible sex appeal, charisma -- or both!
Also related are intuition, gut reaction and first impressions. While I think some people are better at it than others, I think we all have it and some people just know how to pay attention to it.
I notice it a lot going into different offices, too. Easy to tell which ones are terrible places to work.
Let me give this some more thought.
April 30, 2007 4:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 30, 2007 16:01
Terra and E-Favorite:
This may be more for you, and I'd like your opinion on it, as well as any others who would like to offer it, but I thought this might be interesting.
I don't really claim a religion, and I am not a big spiritual person, yet I have always had a belief in the Energy of things. I can feel it in things, and especially, I can feel it in people. Ever notice how some people seem to have a presence about them or an inner fire? I believe it boils down to that person's personal energy. Some have more, and some have less. I have been told that I have this strong energy, and I notice it in other people, such as my third child(and she's only a baby), my wife, and other people I come in contact with. This energy is what other people respond to. It has always fascinated me and I was just wondering what you guys thought about it. I'd love to hear all thoughts on it. and I will post this On Starhawk's post also. Thanks guys!
April 30, 2007 2:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 30, 2007 14:42
Terra gazelle -
Thanks for that.
If I were going to have a religion, I think I'd be a Pagan. Nature provides more than the supernatural ever could.
April 30, 2007 9:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 30, 2007 09:33
E Favorite,
You say ditch the supernatural. Super Natural. Ultra Natural...In all Nature.
I speak for myself only, my thoughts, and not all Pagans.
ok I may rapt poetic.
When I go out under the dark sky that is lit with a full moon, I hear the night sounds...the owls and the wind through the trees...I take a deep breath and I know God. Ok not the Christian God...not the god of the bible. But what I call God, Goddess, The All. It is the life force behind all life, it is in the wind, the leaves, the grass and the breath I take.
I stand under that moon and I know that from the beginning of time there had been women that have stood under that same moon, taken that deep breath and felt that connection to All.
Our senses took in all the smells, sounds, the trees that are touched by silver by the moonlight, the feel of the night on every inch of skin. That all is god. Supernatural? Yes...it is super and it is natural, and I am connected as a web to all of it.
I have a room dedicated to my religious pratice. It is set aside for the sacred...I do not wear shoes in that room, it is used for worship and meditation...incense is burned...nag champa, candles lit and music used. It is a room where when you walk in you are instantly calmed. It is like a place outside of my house, no noise of dogs and cats, a husband, TV and just the noices of living. It is quieter, like noise is sofened, thoughts are soothed. People have gone in there and said, they could lay down and sleep. It is a place where the mundain is seperate.
In that room am again worshipping that entity God/goddess, that balance that is all things...it is no old man in the sky with a big book of judgement, it is no pointing finger saying what is sin and what is allowed. It is something that says that what furthers life is good and what brings harm to it and causes life to disrespect itself is bad.
That is my god. And I see it in all things in the universe.
Blessed be...
April 28, 2007 12:22 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 28, 2007 00:22
Terra, - Absolutely! “The subconscious needs more then words, it does not understand words. It understands symbols and things of the emotion..color, scent, sound.. that is what uplifts the soul."
I think that's what's made Catholicism so successful over the centuries. I’m all for keeping the timeless color, scent and sound and ditching the outdated supernatural beliefs.
April 27, 2007 10:17 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 27, 2007 22:17
Ritual talks to the soul. Today so many churches look like garages, like god was needing a lube job. There is no beauty, no incense floating up to give essence to the prayers, no soaring music to enliven the heart...no taste of paradise with the colored light from the stained glass windows to paint the floor between the pews.
There is not that silence filled with expectation of god. Instead there is blue jeans and thoughts of getting home for the football game.
Where is the sacred? What seperates the mundain from the sacred? Do you go before your god not with your best, but with your "good enough"?
The subconscious needs more then words, it does not understand words. It understands symbols and things of the emotion..color, scent, sound.. that is what uplifts the soul.
terra
April 27, 2007 5:39 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 27, 2007 17:39
Deb - I've seen people in the Catholic church I grew up in wearing shorts and flip-flops. Don't know how Jesus felt, but I found it quite unattractive - like showing up that way for a wedding or a night at the theatre. Getting dressed up is a way of saying church is special.
I think that the ritual of the Catholic church derived from Roman rituals. People love rituals and use them in all sorts of situations (like half-time shows at football games). I suppose even evangelical churches have some typical routines - just not involving satin robes and funny hats and incense.
I'll tell you what, if you ever get back to basics, the way they did it in biblical times, you're going to have to get rid of the rock band and the sound system - and probably the shouting.
April 27, 2007 2:36 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 27, 2007 14:36
Communion Wine Hats?
April 27, 2007 2:35 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 27, 2007 14:35
Deb: Your church sounds like mine. We avoid the camo shorts in the winter though (because its too cold outside) :)
I can't imagine going to a church where you feel out of place by not dressing up a certain way. Or should I say "going back to a church...". I remember battling my parents as a kid to wear jeans to church back in the day. Jesus doesn't care about anybodys suit and tie.
"I believe the Baptists believe that being baptized washes away your sins and is the act that "saves" you"
I think a few may believe that. Most don't.
April 27, 2007 12:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 27, 2007 12:59
Deb,
What about Communion? Can we wear Communion Wine hats?
April 27, 2007 12:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 27, 2007 12:42
They don't allow food or beverages in the worship area... otherwise everyone would be chowing in there during the service!
April 27, 2007 11:33 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 27, 2007 11:33
Ok, well, as long as you're not actually drinking the beer during the service, and you use a little mouthwash, you should be good to go. lol.
April 27, 2007 11:31 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 27, 2007 11:31
I will be after I finish the beer
LOL
April 27, 2007 11:29 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 27, 2007 11:29
Uhhhhh, only if you're involved in a skit during the service. :)
April 27, 2007 11:24 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 27, 2007 11:24
Can I bring a beer dispensing hat?
April 27, 2007 11:17 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 27, 2007 11:17
Russell,
I see at least one person in camo shorts and flip flops every week at my church!
April 27, 2007 11:13 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 27, 2007 11:13
Seems that way, doesn't it.
April 27, 2007 11:13 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 27, 2007 11:13
Russell,
I understand that a lot of these traditions are centuries old, and people are so used to growing up doing and seeing things done a certain way. But I think these days, more and more, people are starting to take a closer look at why some of these things are done, and what purpose they serve. Are they being done for God's sake, or for ours? Is this the way Christ taught us to worship, or did it serve some other purpose? Did it take our minds off of what was important - worshipping God, and instead make us become preoccupied with "the law" of religion?
April 27, 2007 11:09 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 27, 2007 11:09
Deb:
Yea, I never understood all the formality that comes with going to church. If I want, I should be able to go in a pair of camouflage shorts and flip flops dangit! The lord ain't gonna care what you look like, only what you are there for. Why all the emphasis on in being so proper?
April 27, 2007 10:11 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 27, 2007 10:11
E Favorite:
There is a lot about Catholicism that I don't agree with. I couldn't say scrap it all, but it seems to me that there is a lot about it that doesn't seem biblical, or rather seems to be a twisting of biblical teaching. That is taken as a matter of opinion, and therein lies a major split between Catholics and Protestants. Although some things are followed by other denominations as well. I believe the Baptists believe that being baptized washes away your sins and is the act that "saves" you.
I guess the thing that bothers me the most is all of the "pomp and cirmumstance". That was never meant to be a part of Christianity; never. All of the ritual and blessing with "holy" water and incense and kneeling and standing and incantations and wearing of specific garments. To what end? Is all of that glorifying God? Is that giving praise to the Lord? Or should you just wear your regular clothes and maybe sing some songs that everyone understands and talk about how the things you do every day are a reflection of the type of person you are, and pray to God for some guidance and understanding?
Whoa, did I just say all of that?
April 27, 2007 9:47 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 27, 2007 09:47
Maybe the problem with Christian education is that we spend too much time and energy arguing about whose "brand" is the correct one, implying that every other denomination or church community must be incorrect. Most of the so-called nondenominational churches are the worst, led by charismatic pastors who answer to no one. The multiplicity of churches arose because of abuse of authority, and the idea that sheep in a different field might be well-tended makes the would-be monopolists of monotheism nervous.
April 27, 2007 9:16 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 27, 2007 09:16
And for your penance, say three Our Fathers and sin no more!!!
April 26, 2007 11:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 23:26
To Cal Thomas: You quoted King David, "Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight." (Psalm 51:4).
If David really said that, he was dead wrong. The evil he did was against Bathsheba and her husband. He should have been asking her for forgiveness (too late for the husband). Perhaps you are one of the Christians who reserves the word "sin" for an action that offends God, in which case David did not "sin" against Bathsheba and her husband, but he most certainly did them evil. He should have sought forgiveness from the people he wronged. And we should do likewise.
April 26, 2007 11:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 23:05
Deb - are you sure you not talking about Catholics? "celibacy of priests, the papacy, forced conversion and murder of non-believers, refusals of mixed-religion marriages, baptism as a cleansing of sins, drinking alcohol as sin, worship of saints..."
Everything but drinking of alcohol applies to Catholics. This I know, because the priest who was looking in on my obstreperous mother suggested I calm myself with a nice glass of pino grigio.
I prefer caberet.
Back on topic - sounds like getting back to christian roots means getting rid of catholism, right?
April 26, 2007 6:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 18:12
Mr Mark,
Not beer with communion, silly. Though...what an idea! I was also raised Lutheran..beer aplenty at after church events (receptions, baptisms, the like) but that may have more to do with the German aspect of it...
Deb,
Funny you brought up Soylent Green. My fiancee brought that movie home from the library two days ago.
And, see, you're joining in with this side conversation. You should apologize to me for telling me to apologize! Look, mistakes were made. I am sorry you were offended. I take full responsibility.
April 26, 2007 5:26 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 17:26
Bummer.... Bobby "Boris" Pickett died.
"He did the Mash.... He did the Monster Mash."
69 years old - of leukemia.
April 26, 2007 4:38 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 16:38
Andrea wrote:
"You want beer with your religion? Try Lutheranism."
Hey, I was brought up Lutheran, and there was NO WAY that beer was served at communion. We had wine, just like everyone else!
Of course, we also had seconds... :)
April 26, 2007 4:21 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 16:21
Andrea,
You want obscure? Here ya go:
"Soylent Green is People!"
April 26, 2007 4:18 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 16:18
Mr. Mark,
Sangria and nachos - that's funny! and delicious. Now I want to go out for Mexican food tonight!
April 26, 2007 4:12 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 16:12
Russell,
You want beer with your religion? Try Lutheranism.
Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beetlejuice
I know it's not a scary movie, but it still creeps me out
Deb,
Well, then I won't apologize because I won't mean it. We're nerds. We like quoting obscure crap ;)
April 26, 2007 4:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 16:09
Ok then, party at my place. Deb brings the wine, Andrea brings the beer, and Mr. Mark brings the nachos.
And I'll have Luke bring the strippers-er, other guests.
We can all drink and laugh at the 700 Club.
April 26, 2007 4:07 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 16:07
Russell:
Seriously, they drank wine all throughout the bible. Even Jesus drank wine. It doesn't say in the bible anywhere "don't drink alcohol"; but it does say "don't get drunk." ;)
April 26, 2007 4:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 16:02
Russell D. wrote:
"Religion with no BEER? WTF? Yea, count me out............
"Sometimes the best way to listen to someone preach is when you are plastered."
Yep. Even Jesus got the boys' going with sangria & nachos...
April 26, 2007 3:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 15:59
Andrea, Russell:
Ok you two, I think you'd better both apologize, and really mean it, so we can all forgive you and get back on topic! :)
No empty apologies, we want full repentance! lol!
April 26, 2007 3:59 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 15:59
Religion with no BEER? WTF? Yea, count me out............
Sometimes the best way to listen to someone preach is when you are plastered.
April 26, 2007 3:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 15:57
One, Two, he's coming for you
Three, Four, better lock your door
April 26, 2007 3:54 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 15:54
Russell,
Have you checked the children?
April 26, 2007 3:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 15:46
Here's Cal Thomas on April 15, 2003:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-tomorrow/what-they-said_b_46907.html
"When the Berlin Wall fell and Eastern Europe escaped from the shackles of communism, I wrote that we must not forget the enablers, apologists and other "fellow travelers" who helped sustain communism's grip on a sizable portion of humanity for much of the 20th century. I suggested that a "cultural war crimes tribunal" be convened, at which people from academia, the media, government and the clergy who were wrong in their assessment of communism would be forced to confront their mistakes. While not wishing to deprive anyone of his or her right to be wrong, it wouldn't hurt for these people to be held accountable.
That advice was not taken - but today we are presented with another opportunity in the form of scores of false media prophets who predicted disaster should the U.S. military confront and seek to oust the murderous regime of Saddam Hussein. The purpose of a cultural war crimes tribunal would be to remind the public of journalism's many mistakes, as well as the errors of certain politicians and retired generals, and allow it to properly judge their words the next time they feel the urge to prophesy...
All of the printed and voiced prophecies should be saved in an archive. When these false prophets again appear, they can be reminded of the error of their previous ways and at least be offered an opportunity to recant and repent."
-----
Hmmmm...putting people on trial for holding the "wrong" opinions? Not very forgiving, or very American of you it seems to me...
Well, Mr. Thomas, since it turns out you, like the rest of the warmongers, were wrong about everything don't you think it's time you listened to your own advice here and took the opportunity to recant and repent? Unlike you I do not advocate show trials or Maoist style self-criticism sessions but there are plenty of us out here in the real world who are ready to remind you and the rest of the "false media prophets" who predicted flowers and candy in Iraq of the errors of your past prophecies and demand that you be held accountable, at least in the court of public opinion.
Regards
A Hermit
April 26, 2007 3:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 15:45
There have been many things over the centuries that have caused Christianity to wander from its roots because of their non-biblical rules. There are a few biggies that come to mind: celibacy of priests, the papacy, forced conversion and murder of non-believers, refusals of mixed-religion marriages, baptism as a cleansing of sins, drinking alcohol as sin, worship of saints...
So I'm not speaking specifically of just one denomination; but hopefully all will be able to get back to their roots.
April 26, 2007 3:42 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 15:42
The Call is coming from INSIDE THE HOUSE!!!!!!
April 26, 2007 3:21 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 15:21
Epicurean Paradox? I'm more interested in the EpiKorean Paradox, that is, how do people with such delicious food stay so slender.
April 26, 2007 3:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 15:10
Deb, you say, "I consider this to be the unfortunate truth caused by the morphing over the ages of Christianity into something that it was never meant to be."
Are you talking about roman Catholics?
Also, like Mr Mark, I'm hearing a lot of "they're not real Christians" when avowed Christians do something bad that embarrasses other Christians.
This thinking applies to atheists too. Pol Pot, Hitler and Stalin weren't real athiests, you know. They couldn't even live up to the one simple atheist tenet - non-belief in God. No - they believed that they were God. It's so obvious.
April 26, 2007 3:07 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 15:07
There's a "wacko Christian" who stands on the sidewalk by a shopping area in my town EVERY day who holds up various signs that say things like "God is angry with you - why do you let your women dress like wh*res?" Now THAT is a wacko. I just want to give him some money to buy new clothes and a shower, but he won't take it. Makes me sad every time I see him...
April 26, 2007 3:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 15:01
Mr Mark,
That sounds like an intro to a creep-out movie...spooky!
April 26, 2007 2:49 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 14:49
Dear Deb-
As Andrea points out, those wacko Xians are right here on this blog, even within this very thread.
April 26, 2007 2:31 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 14:31
Deb,
Yes, there are some pretty wacky Christians on this board! The ones I see when the conversation turns to morals insist that without religion, there are no morals.
People thought and said all kinds of rude things about me when I was just a little Lutheran girl from a farm in Ohio...people are just mean.
April 26, 2007 2:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 14:10
Mr. Mark wrote:
"I must say that I have a larger problem with your line of reasoning, and that is the belief I often hear voiced by Xians that were it not for the moral center their religion provides, they would probably be out murdering, raping and pillaging."
Man, you must talk to some pretty wacky Christians! I would be really offended if someone had said that to me before I became a Christian (of course, I know there were a whole lot of people who thought all kinds of terrible things about me when I was just a nice little Jewish girl from the Bronx.) :)
April 26, 2007 2:03 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 14:03
BigDwrote:
"Mr Mark -
"I am talking about a specific education in Christian teaching. Not the domain of public schools."
Thanks for the clarification.
As a father with 2 kids in public school (elementary & middle), I can't think of anything that Xian teaching could add to the citizenship awareness my kids have received in their public school systems (they've attended schools in the east and west).
Most schools have a "RESPECT" program, wherein children are given an easy-to-remember list of principles to follow at school. My 4th-grade daughter joined the mediator program as part of her school's leadership initiative. This program involved her attending 2 days of mediator training at the local CalState campus. Twice a month, she spends her lunch hour as part of a 2-person team that helps kids mediate any problems/conflicts that may have arisen that day. If the conflict is out of hand, they refer it to the faculty, but many of these conflicts are simple playground incidents that the kids can and do resolve among themselves.
From what I have observed, my daughter and her friends have effectively extended the ideas behind the RESPECT program to their own relationships. More often than not, any conflicts these kids have among themselves get resolved within the day and don't seem to fester into the kids being on the outs with each other for any length of time.
Importantly, this program is entirely secular in its approach, and it seems to work quite well. It proves that even children can resolve differences without the motivation of some invisible, all-powerful baby sitter looking over their shoulders.
I must say that I have a larger problem with your line of reasoning, and that is the belief I often hear voiced by Xians that were it not for the moral center their religion provides, they would probably be out murdering, raping and pillaging. That is a false premise if I ever heard one, and it can be disproven in an instant by asking a very simple question: if you had no god to give you a moral center, would you visit such murder, rape and pillage upon your own children? I believe that most people would answer, "no." It then logically follows that if you can have moral clarity based on your relationship to your family absent the input from a god, you can just as well have moral clarity when dealing with the rest of the world without input from a god.
Human beings do not need god or religion to have moral clarity in their lives.
Thanks for the dialogue.
April 26, 2007 12:49 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 12:49
Food for thought when reading a column by Cal Thomas:
"When the Berlin Wall fell and Eastern Europe escaped from the shackles of communism, I wrote that we must not forget the enablers, apologists and other "fellow travelers" who helped sustain communism's grip on a sizable portion of humanity for much of the 20th century. I suggested that a "cultural war crimes tribunal" be convened, at which people from academia, the media, government and the clergy who were wrong in their assessment of communism would be forced to confront their mistakes. While not wishing to deprive anyone of his or her right to be wrong, it wouldn't hurt for these people to be held accountable.
"That advice was not taken - but today we are presented with another opportunity in the form of scores of false media prophets who predicted disaster should the U.S. military confront and seek to oust the murderous regime of Saddam Hussein. The purpose of a cultural war crimes tribunal would be to remind the public of journalism's many mistakes, as well as the errors of certain politicians and retired generals, and allow it to properly judge their words the next time they feel the urge to prophesy...
"All of the printed and voiced prophecies should be saved in an archive. When these false prophets again appear, they can be reminded of the error of their previous ways and at least be offered an opportunity to recant and repent."
- Cal Thomas, April 15, 2003
Duet 18:22 "When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."
Duet 18:20 "But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die."
April 26, 2007 12:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 12:19
Mr Mark -
I am talking about a specific education in Christian teaching. Not the domain of public schools. I am saying that the education whether through private school, sunday school, etc. is currently ineffeicient to raise people to truly act like Christians in a modern culture. I think this can be seen since most adults have a very limited understanding of the faith they proclaim to hold. Therefore a large part of the blame of Christians not acting like Christians falls on us Christians for not having proper means to educate people. Again doesn't apply to everyone some are doing a great job.
April 26, 2007 11:20 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 11:20
(As noted previously)
Atonement is part of apology and repentance.
The definition:
a·tone·ment (ə-tōn'mənt)
n.
Amends or reparation made for an injury or wrong; expiation.
Reconciliation or an instance of reconciliation between God and humans.
Atonement Christianity. The reconciliation of God and humans brought about by the redemptive life and death of Jesus.
Professor Crossan's take on the Christian theology of atonement:
From his book, "Who is Jesus" co-authored with Richard Watts)
"Moreover, an atonement theology that says God sacrifices his own son in place of humans who needed to be punished for their sins might make some Christians love Jesus, but it is an obscene picture of God. It is almost heavenly child abuse, and may infect our imagination at more earthly levels as well. I do not want to express my faith through a theology that pictures God demanding blood sacrifices in order to be reconciled to us."
"Traditionally, Christians have said, 'See how Christ's passion was foretold by the prophets." Actually, it was the other way around. The Hebrew prophets did not predict the events of Jesus' last week; rather, many of those Christian stories were created to fit the ancient prophecies in order to show that Jesus, despite his execution, was still and always held in the hands of God."
"In terms of divine consistency, I do not think that anyone, anywhere, at any time, including Jesus, brings dead people back to life."
April 26, 2007 11:16 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 11:16
"In the 1970s there was a man in prison in Atlanta (Theriault or Therioux) who claimed he was getting messages from ECLAT and was the ECLATARIAN NAZARITE. He started the Church of New Song."
"Eclat" is a misspelling. Actually, the guy had proof that St. Peter was an ECLAIR, and that Krispy Kreme and Dunkin' Donuts were usurpers who suppressed the Church's true heritage...Sorry, I've been watching too much "South Park."
April 26, 2007 10:54 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 10:54
BigD wrote:
"Mr Mark -
"I would submit that a big reason more Christians don't act like Christians is because of poor eductaion."
Are you talking about a generalized education or a specific Xian/Biblical explanation?
April 26, 2007 10:36 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 26, 2007 10:36
This goes way back, BUT:
In the 1970s there was a man in prison in Atlanta (Theriault or Therioux) who claimed he was getting messages from ECLAT and was the ECLATARIAN NAZARITE. He started the Church of New Song. I think there was a long legal case.
Hey, Jacob, did I get close to your inspiration?Does anyone else remember this?
April 25, 2007 8:02 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 25, 2007 20:02
Yep - not really a paradox i don't believe - but the first recognized attemt at solving the problem of evil.
April 25, 2007 6:23 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 25, 2007 18:23
Epicurean Paradox...
April 25, 2007 6:14 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Posted on April 25, 2007 18:14
Mr Mark -
I would submit that a big reason more Christians don't act like Christians is because of poor eductaion. How can we expect them to act Christian if we don't teach them what that means? Not to discredit the schools and groups that are doing a good job but right now they are more the exception then the norm. I realize you don't believe in all that but you submitte