All Comments (23)

Good site! I'll stay reading! Keep improving!

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It's interesting to me that in Chapter 24 of Matthew, Christ prophesied the end of time coming within a generation.

32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

It didn't happen.

Whoops.

Quite a prophet.

Elaine Pagels and others have written about how early Christians really didn't know what to do when the end time didn't some.

Stop reading the people who are still at a 12 year old's level of faith, which is really nothing more than superstition.

What a stupid column. Clown.

Hello again Bob Wheaton, since you re going from thread to thread copying the same coment, here is my reply on the Jacoby thread that you did not reply to:

Yu write:

"It is always interesting to me to see unbelievers get so passionate and angry about something they say is a myth and never existed. Seems like the ultimate waste of time and energy being that they are so "wise" and "intellectual". Interesting that imaginary things upset them so much... very revealing actually."

Bob, when is the last time that you saw an unbeliever blow up a bus or an abortion clinic. It is not so much the mythology of religion that I find objectionable, it is what people feel justified in doing because of it. You can look back and see some of my comments on the importance of remaining civil, but let's not forget that non-believers (and even believers-who were not the "right kind") have gotten a hell of a lot more than angry words from Canyon Shearer's, Anti-Lumnous, etc. ilk.

"It is always interesting to me to see unbelievers get so passionate and agry about something they say is a myth and never existed. Seems like the ultimate waste of time and energy being that they are so "wise" and "intellectual". Interesting that imaginary things upset them so much... very revealing actually."

Umm, maybe it's because when people really, really believe all of this religion stuff they tend to KILL A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE AND MAKE THINGS PRETTY MISERABLE FOR THE REST OF US.

It is always interesting to me to see unbelievers get so passionate and agry about something they say is a myth and never existed. Seems like the ultimate waste of time and energy being that they are so "wise" and "intellectual". Interesting that imaginary things upset them so much... very revealing actually.

Carolyn13,

You have easily accepted revisionist history that accomidates your rejection of Christ. The December 25th date was actually adopted by Christianity before the pagans, in an attempt to ascertain the date of the death of Christ. The death was determined to be on March 25 in 4 B.C., and following a Jewish superstition that said prophets died on the same day they were concieved, also determined that Jesus was conceived on that same date. March 25 plus nine months yields December 25.

Also, as an agnostic, have you taken the time to adequately onsider the claims Jesus made concerning himself? If so, the "great spiritual teacher" fails to hold any water. He was either lying, which makes him a poor moral and spiritual teacher, or a crazy man, which likwise disqaulifies him as any knid of example, or he is wuite simply who he says he is, the God-man who came to earth to reveal GOd to us in tangible human flesh. I pray that you would take the time to seriously read and consider the truth claims of Jesus, and then either reject him out of hand or repent and trust him as your Saviour and bow the knee to him as your Lord.

But don't patronize him by saying he was just a good teacher.

Carolyn13,

It is important to take time to remember important events, even if the time of rememberance may seem arbitrary.

We mark and remember the events of the current year and mark the beginning of the new year on January 1st. Why? Is there some astrological or seasonal uniqueness to this date?

We mark the signing of the Declaration of Independence on July 4th, even though the actual date of the signing was two days earlier. Why?

Veterans Day actually began as Armistace Day - the Day World War I ended. Does World War I really represent all wars?

Thanksgiving was begun by Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War. What's up with that? And do you think the pilgrims actually waited to the end of November to hold their picnic with the Indians? There was probably snow on the ground that late in the year.

And Christmas - It's true that a date in the Spring may be more accurate, but nobody really knows what time of year Christ was born. Spring just seems to be the most likely based upon the shepards watching the flocks. Shepards generally didn't spend time in the fields in winter time. Many Christian holidays were scheduled at the same time as pagan holidays. It made it easier for a persecuted religion to celebrate and not stand out. But the most important point is that remembering is more important than picking a hard-and-fast date. That's why so many Federal holidays are celebrated on the closest monday than on the actual date.

Cal,

I loved your answer. It was simple and direct. Most importantly, it did proclaimed Christian faith without the use of a bulldozer.

I don't agree that faith in Jesus has anything to do with Christmas. The designation of December 25th as Christ's birthday was a political invention, imposed on an ancient pagan celebration called "The Day of The Unconquered Sun."

In fact, many of the persecuted sects that came to America opposed Christmas celebrations on those grounds. Several present day sects still oppose the celebration of Christmas as pagan and an affront to Christ.

I am agnostic, and I consider Jesus to be a great spiritual teacher. However, Christmas to me is a winter festival with roots more ancient than Christianity.

MR. THOMAS ONCE AGAIN YOUVE EXPRESSED SUCH A SWEET AND SIMPLE PERSPECTIVE. I AM ALSO GRATEFUL FOR MY GIFT OF FAITH, AS A MUSLIM I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY WITH WHAT YOU SAY, BELIEVE IT, AND AM HAPPY TO HEAR YOU SAY IT. MAYBE YOU ARE BETTER AT INTERFAITH AND COMMON GROUND DIALOGUE THAN I HAD PREVIOUSLY IMAGINED. THIS IS THE SECOND POST YOUVE MADE THAT TOUCHED ME WITH ITS PUREHEARTEDNESS.

PEACE AND MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU SIR.

One thing is for sure. Christians need to be on guard against evil within their ranks, as demonstrated by the behavior of Representative Virgil Goode of Virginia. I hope there is uproar within Christian circles about his religious hatemongering but so far the Christian community seems disinterested in cleaning its own house. Rep Goode doesn't deserve to be called an American.

There is a war taking place within Christianity between the Christianists and moderate Christians, just as there is within Islam between Islamists and moderate Muslims. I hope good Christians take notice and speak up about this kind of thing. They can't just focus on Islamic fundamentalism.

How wonderful it must have been for Jesus to hear those words from Peter.

I am very greatful for this gift of faith.

Have a Merry Christmas, Cal!

I applaud you Cal for appealing to the Bible for your answer. As is clear from the other answers and the comments on your post, there is no telling what hodgepodge of nonsensical blather one will get when appealing to the "wisdom" of men.

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: 'I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.' Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?...But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise." (1 Corinthins 1:18-20, 27)

I am happy to be called a fool and be saved than to perish in your "wisdom" thank you very much.

One of the great tragedies of our era is that utter quacks such as Cal Thomas and Dominic Crossan can appear all over the place in the print media and on tv, while sane, rational writers telling the truth about religion are blacklisted. I applaud Jon Meacham and Sally Quinn for beginning to get at the fundamental questions about religion, "Christian" or otherwise. I have posted a question: What evidence is there that "Jesus" actually existed? I hope to see that question posted one of these days, if Jon and Sally are not too afraid of its opening up a giantsized bag of worms. There are indications that they have guts enough to do it.
    As increasing numbers of self-professed "Christians" try to create a theocracy based on their versions of religion, as there is in more and more political elections a litmus test for adherence to "Christian" beliefs to qualify for office, as only self-professed "Christians" are nominated to sit on the bench of the U.S. Supreme Court, as "Christian" organizations block scientific progress on the basis of their hysterical beliefs, the kind of questions beginning to emerge on this "On Faith" web site become some of the most critically important of our era.
    Again I congratulate and commend Jon and Sally for what they are doing, and I urge them to go even deeper into the subjects so that we can examine in great detail such questions as whether or not the Old Testament and New Testament and Koran are just fiction, and whether or not the principles of the religions - Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad - actually existed.
- Burton H. Wolfe

YEST ME,

Revelation was written in Greek, the name "Amenophis" presumably is found originally in Heiroglyphics. Pointing out similarities between the spellings of the two in ENGLISH isn't a clue to anything.

Geez. With all those versions of what Jesus is one would think the possibilities are exhausted. Think again. Who and what was Jesus?

Jesus is a fictional person based upon a factual history, a short patch of Egyptian history that is at most 50 years long and more like 30 years. The first clue to her identity comes from Revelation, "the Amen" AMENophis IV to be exact.

The original story from which the hoax, the holy book, sacred scriptures was constructed has been found. Is the game over? Time will tell.

http://www.hoax-buster.org has the whole story, I think.

http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul for the CRAM, or at least the key, the motive, why one would create a hoax about something as important as eternal life.

Jesus was a good man, wonderful teacher/idol and a prophet like other prophet. But absolutely he was not God, God does not grow up like Jesus, God is almighty but Jesus was not almighty, he could not defense himself again crucifying.

If faith comes straight from Above, without persuasion or debate, then there is no need for holy books, prophets, evangelists, churches, or any other device to propagate particular creeds. Or is Grace not powerful enough to reach all? Or perhaps, Cal, what you want to say is that Fundamentalists don't debate, compromise, or acknowlege new facts or realities. They get all they need to know straight from the Pure Source. Muqtada al-Sadr and Pat Robertson both fit that mold: boundless pride. Might it not be better if people occasionally doubted their sole access to Truth? Humility and generosity might be better lessons for Christmas.

If Faith is a gift, we are back to the old question of why God would favor some with Faith and not others. This kind of God is a monster.

I am not surprised that Cal Thomas (Calvin!!!) believes in this kind of a god.

The concept of Jesus is an ongoing fraud perpertrated by the half weak upon the fully weak.

The idea of having faith at all just means that the underlying premise os false.

When the truth is clearly agaisnt you, it's time to roll out the lies, faith being the #1 wool pulling device. Fools.

A gift huh?

From whom?

Faith is for weak minded fearful children of mind.

It's not a gift, it's a curse.

Truth is beauty, not the supposed King of Kings.

Son of God. Please. There is no God, grow up.

As per Karen Armstrong, "We are all Sons and Daughters of God!!!!!"

As per a number of historical Jesus scholars:

Jesus the Myth: Heavenly Christ
Earl Doherty
Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy

Jesus the Myth: Man of the Indefinite Past
Alvar Ellegård
G. A. Wells

Jesus the Hellenistic Hero
Gregory Riley

Jesus the Revolutionary
Robert Eisenman

Jesus the Wisdom Sage
John Dominic Crossan
Robert Funk
Burton Mack
Stephen J. Patterson

Jesus the Man of the Spirit
Marcus Borg
Stevan Davies
Geza Vermes

Jesus the Prophet of Social Change
Richard Horsley
Hyam Maccoby
Gerd Theissen

Jesus the Apocalyptic Prophet
Bart Ehrman
Paula Fredriksen
Gerd Lüdemann
John P. Meier
E. P. Sanders

Jesus the Savior
Luke Timothy Johnson
Robert H. Stein
N. T. Wright


I believe only the last group, Johnson, Stein and Wright, believe Jesus is the Son of God.