I would handle it in this fashion,

"I find your lack of Faith in the Force"
disturbing?

Phelps and his inbred so-called "church" are insane. You cannot reason with the insane.
Refusing to engage with the insane is not giving implied agreement with their views or tactics.
Rather, continuing with your activities as though they did not exist is the best way to deal with this particular group.
One of the ways that Phelps finances his "ministry" is by attempting to goad those who engage with him into violence or the appearance of violence, faking a fall, and filing a personal injury lawsuit or filing assault charges, with the members of his "church" as "eye-witnesses."

"CCNL fails to recognize that and discounts the scriptures and depends on some "educated" person that has arbitrarily decided that the prophets, Jesus , Paul, and any other historical figure in the Bible does not exist or is a nutcase. I call him out on it and call on him to see the truth of the Bible."

And Paul, M, M, L and J were educated? Please give us their creditials. And some educated person arbitrarilay decided?? Please read some of the books listed at
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html. Note that five of these educated persons listed in the reference are On Faith panel members (Professors Crossan, Borg, Fredriksen, Wright and Pagels).

Mr Baum-

All I was saying is that what Paul wrote is the truth. That is all. He was a apostle that God spoke through, that is all. CCNL fails to recognize that and discounts the scriptures and depends on some "educated" person that has arbitrarily decided that the prophets, Jesus , Paul, and any other historical figure in the Bible does not exist or is a nutcase. I call him out on it and call on him to see the truth of the Bible. That is it.

The WP's On Faith Column has been around a long time, sorry it has taken me so long to discover. I love it and have linked to it on my www.exminister.org website.

Brad, I came out of that "culture" and understand it very well! I wouldn't share it here, but I have a good idea about how to engage these types(but it is complex.) No, we shouldn't necessarily be passive with groups such as these (every case is different.) Sorry for the shameless plug, but I have been seeking support for my Ex-Minister organization that would discuss with and engage groups such as these!

Faith/religion play a very important role in our society. Too many people are angry, both within and outside of faith. I'd love to sit down and talk with the leadership of Westboro Baptist. Anyone as passionate about their beliefs as they are, probably feels misunderstood and wouldn't trust the media.

If they wouldn't sit down and discuss things with someone like myself then chances are that they are a front group pretending to be people of faith that gets funding to agitate.

Actually from an historical standpoint, Christianity should be called "Pilate-etality"!!

To wit:

The baptism of Jesus by John the Baptist was historic and important in the development of Christianity but Pilate, Paul, M, M, L, and J, the Romans and Constantine played even a greater role.

For example, if Pilate had simply banished Jesus to Crete where would be today?? Considering Pilate was not predestined to execute Jesus, this could have happened so should we thank Pilate and his free will and abuse of power for our religion??

Jesus on Crete might have completed his mission and wrote (if he ever took the time to learn to read and write) the needed singularity Gospel and we would not be in the "limbo" of epistles and gospels and the all the craziness of trying to figure out who said/did what and when and if they said or did it at all.

but didn't Jesus die so people could follow Him away from Hell?

Counterww

You wrote, "CCNL:
I could care a rat's ass what Crossan thinks.
Paul is the one to depend on, and what Crossan wants to think about it means nothing.
You are being deceived."

I thought it was about Jesus and the fact that God became One of us and that we are to "depend" on Jesus.

And that this fact is just part of God's unfolding Plan.

And that God has had this Plan since before creation.

And that God's Plan will come to Fruition.

Even tho "Christ" is not Jesus's last name but is a title, it is called "Christianity", not Paulianity, is it?

Maybe it is time to stop looking at a book and start looking to God, Jesus extended the invitation to "Come follow Me", didn't He?

God is a Trinity and God is a Being of Pure Love, dogma is not God, the bible is not God, the church is not God.

God can use anything or anyone to lead someone to God, there do seem to be some that place place various things above God including that which is inspired by God.

According to the bible, the Pharisees,among others, were quite good at this.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Anti-Semitic passages in the NT:

Matthew 23:35 (also Lk 11:50-51)
And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

Matthew 27:25

All the people answered, "Let his blood be on us and on our children!"

John 8:44 (also Rev 2:9)

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire.

1 Thessalonians 2:14-16

You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews, who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to all men in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.

Revelation 3:9

I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars - I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

Anti-female comments in "Pauls" epistles.

8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
( Timothy 2:8-15 KJV)"

“Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.” (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)"

"He (Paul) feared the turn-on of women's voices as much as the sight of their hair and skin..... At one point he even suggests that the sight of female hair might distract any angels/ "pretty wingie talking fictional thingies" in church attendance (1 Cor. 11:10). (from Professor Chilton's book Rabbi Paul).

Like there are very few Muslims who denounce their murderous terrorists, there are very few "Conservative Christians" who denounce the Westboro Baptist Chruch. Why don't the Baptists sue to have Westboro remove "Baptist" from their name unless they fully support them?

I think the answer should be:

Defiance. Defiance and small regard.

They could be the funhouse mirror for Christian conservatism.

A lot of people who consider themselves far more reasonable are trying to rule us with ideas that do come from the same place as: 'God Hates,' 'The End of America And The World Would be Good' and 'Who Cares Who I Hurt If It Makes me Feel Powerful. Fear Me And My God. Even if I'm The One Scared Into A Rage.'

Paul was a Jew! Anti Semitic is just a way out claim that is an excuse to reject Christ.

what nonsense you spew.

Reread Paul's letters and ask God to reveal the truth to you. Crossan knows nothing about truth.

How in the heck can these nutcases you quote know anything about the man Paul? Did they walk and talk to him? To know Paul is to know someone who suffered greatly to spread the news of the gospel.

Man you are off your rocker again. Have you bothered to read through his writings and even attempt to see what they are on their face value? You are lost my friend.

And see Professor Crossan's book In Search of Paul to see how Paul's "words" were used to establish almost global anti-semitism.

Observations about Paul of Tarsus:

Paul's ability to collect rather large sums of money from the Gentiles for Jewish relief, probably went a long way in "greasing" the Gentile entrance into the movement i.e. Paul was the first media evangelist!!!

So add Gentile money to Jesus' teachings, Paul's epistles, Constantine's need for support and the whims of Pilate to the list of the foundations of our Catholic Church.

And it is time for us “born Catholics” to “think outside the scribe stories”. Embellishment was the norm in the Greek, Roman and Jewish world. Everybody had their PR guys. For the Jewish nation, it was the scribes and this is a historical fact. History continued on in the first century. There was no second coming as mythicizid by Paul. It was just more embellishment as history has shown.

With respect to Paul's "unchristian", prudish comments about women, Professor Bruce Chilton, a contemporary historic Jesus and Paul exegete says it best:

"He (Paul) feared the turn-on of women's voices as much as the sight of their hair and skin..... At one point he even suggests that the sight of female hair might distract any angel ("pretty, wingie, talking, fictional thingie" in church attendance (1 Cor. 11:10)."

Anti-feminine comments in "Pauls" epistles. If you accept that all of Paul's epistles are authentic then:

Women:

1. You should learn in silence.

2. You are not allowed to teach or have authority over me or any other man or be in charge of any meeting.

3. You must keep quiet especially in meetings (you will be disgraced if you do).

4. Have no fancy hair styles or wear gold ornaments, pearls, or have expensive dresses.

5. You and your female counterparts are responsible for all this suffering. i.e. your poor conduct in the magic garden. Shame be upon you!!!!

6. You must have children to make up for your conduct.

Simply add Paul's thinking about women to the list of flaws in the foundations of Catholicism/Christianity.

And see Professor Crossan's book In Search of Paul to see how Paul's "words" were used to establish almost global anti-semiticism.

CCNL:

I could care a rat's ass what Crossan thinks.

Paul is the one to depend on, and what Crossan wants to think about it means nothing.

You are being deceived.

ccnl1

You wrote, "From his book, Church: The Human Story of God,
"Therefore the historical future is not known even to God; otherwise we and our history would be merely a puppet show in which God holds the strings.
For God, too, history is an adventure, an open history for and of men and women.""

If God were merely some kind of superior being rather than the creator of ALL except for God, this could have some validity to it.

Just because we can not "conceive of" Someone being outside of space and time does not mean that it is impossible to be, it just means that it is impossible to conceive of.

Just because God can "see", past, present, future, does not mean that we are puppets on a string, it can mean that God is "way beyond" our comprehension and our putting God into a box, which quite a few, "believers and non-believers", continue to do, will continue to be a foolhardy endeavor.

You then wrote, "And if God does not know the future, the "prophets" Mohammed, Jesus and Isaiah surely did not."

By this statement, it is your contention that God does not know the future and also that Jesus is a "prophet" rather than God-Incarnate.

I have said that when the Second Person of the Trinity became Jesus, God-Incarnate, He gave up His Omni's and became just as human as every other human being that ever was, is or will be but He did not give up the very Being of God which is Love, so another way of putting it is, Jesus became Love-Incarnate.

I have also said that even after Jesus rose from the dead, He retained His non-Omniscience considering that when asked about His return, He replied, "I do not know, only the Father knows...", so apparently Jesus still has work to do as He Is now.

You then wrote, "In two sentences of profound common sense, Schillibeeckx has reduced the OT, NT and Koran to good but wishful thinking of many ancient scribes.
This falls correctly in line with two of God's/Nature's greatest dependent gifts, i.e. Free Will and Future."

Or Schillibeeckx has revealed to us that he can not or will not believe in a God that is beyond his comprehension.

You then wrote, "Pause and think about it!!!"

I have and I have replied.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

One more time for Thomas, "talker to god/Jesus" and "Moses of the NT":

As per Father Edward Schillebeeckx, the famous contemporary Catholic theologian, God does not know the Future.

From his book, Church: The Human Story of God,

"Therefore the historical future is not known even to God; otherwise we and our history would be merely a puppet show in which God holds the strings.

For God, too, history is an adventure, an open history for and of men and women."

And if God does not know the future, the "prophets" Mohammed, Jesus and Isaiah surely did not.

In two sentences of profound common sense, Schillibeeckx has reduced the OT, NT and Koran to good but wishful thinking of many ancient scribes.

This falls correctly in line with two of God's/Nature's greatest dependent gifts, i.e. Free Will and Future.

Pause and think about it!!!

cmarshdtihqcom

You wrote, "We even have some Jews and Muslims who acknowledge the historical existence of Jesus Christ but not His divinity."

Except for "Messianic Jews", not only do the Jews not believe that Jesus is God-Incarnate but they also do not consider Him a prophet either.

The god of islam gets very perturbed at the mention that Jesus is God-Incarnate or the fact that God is a Trinity yet the god of islam wishes to claim Jesus as a prophet.

If Jesus were merely a prophet and not God-Incarnate then Christianity would be absolutely meaningless and the god of islam would have chosen a liar to be his prophet but the fact is, Jesus is God-Incarnate and God is not the petty, vindictive tyrant that you appear to believe God to be.

As I have said, being a Christian is NOT about one picking up their "get out of hell" card but is about following Jesus.

Christianity is an ongoing unfolding of God's Plan which God has had since before creation and God's Plan is for ALL.

In case you didn't know, the Jews are the Chosen People for the simple reason that God not only chose them but formed them and God did NOT unchoose them.

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom, the new heavens and the new earth.

Jesus won the keys to hell and death and will use them in due time, God's Time.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Like all criticism, it is too easy to cast stones in an opposite camp, pointing out the deficiencies of the extremes of philosophical opposites. The criticism of the Westboro Church needs to come from other Baptists to be effective. The rest of us are already clearly in league with Satan so that any words of condemnation can be sloughed off.

The question is whether you want to suppress the messages of hate effectively or beat your breast in public for the satisfaction of the act.

And from the same book by Professor Crossan:

"That Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate, as the Creed states, is as certain as anything historical can ever be.

“ The Jewish historian, Josephus and the pagan historian Tacitus both agree that Jesus was executed by order of the Roman governor of Judea. And is very hard to imagine that Jesus' followers would have invented such a story unless it indeed happened.

“While the brute fact that of Jesus' death by crucifixion is historically certain, however, those detailed narratives in our present gospels are much more problematic. "

“My best historical reconstruction would be something like this. Jesus was arrested during the Passover festival, most likely in response to his action in the Temple. Those who were closest to him ran away for their own safety.

I do not presume that there were any high-level confrontations between Caiaphas and Pilate and Herod Antipas either about Jesus or with Jesus. No doubt they would have agreed before the festival that fast action was to be taken against any disturbance and that a few examples by crucifixion might be especially useful at the outset. And I doubt very much if Jewish police or Roman soldiers needed to go too far up the chain of command in handling a Galilean peasant like Jesus. It is hard for us to imagine the casual brutality with which Jesus was probably taken and executed.

All those "last week" details in our gospels, as distinct from the brute facts just mentioned, are prophecy turned into history, rather than history remembered."

See also Professor Crossan's reviews of the historical of Jesus in his other books especially, The Historical Jesus and also Excavating Jesus (with Professor Jonathan Reed doing the archeology discussion) .

Once again for those who are trapped in the box of the NT:

Here is what Professor JD Crossan, NT exegete and On Faith panelist has to say about atonement theology: (from his book, "Who is Jesus" co-authored with Richard Watts)

"Moreover, an atonement theology that says God sacrifices his own son in place of humans who needed to be punished for their sins might make some Christians love Jesus, but it is an obscene picture of God. It is almost heavenly child abuse, and may infect our imagination at more earthly levels as well. I do not want to express my faith through a theology that pictures God demanding blood sacrifices in order to be reconciled to us."

"Traditionally, Christians have said, 'See how Christ's passion was foretold by the prophets." Actually, it was the other way around. The Hebrew prophets did not predict the events of Jesus' last week; rather, many of those Christian stories were created to fit the ancient prophecies in order to show that Jesus, despite his execution, was still and always held in the hands of God."

"In terms of divine consistency, I do not think that anyone, anywhere, at any time, including Jesus, brings dead people back to life."

If only all would be willing to be saved. They could all be saved in Jesus' name. But would they be willing?

We have a million Satanists in America. I doubt they consider Jesus their friend.

We have agnostics and atheists. 14% of Americans do not believe in a god, let alone Jesus.

We even have some Jews and Muslims who acknowledge the historical existence of Jesus Christ but not His divinity.

Things typically associated with becoming a Christian are believing in Jesus Christ, repenting of one's sins, confessing to others that Jesus is Lord and savior and that one is a Christian, and baptism. It is suggested that a major life change follows having been saved.

Getting saved does require some positive initiative and is intended to radically change your life over time.

You are right though Thomas. Forgiving, and not hating your neighbor, are critical parts of being a Christian. You must forgive to be forgiven of your sins. If you hate your brother (I John 3:15), it is suicide as far as eternal life.

ccnl1

You wrote, "that were added to the NT to "kick-up" the simple preacher man to deity class."

You seem to have it backwards, Jesus was/is God who became Man that is why Jesus is referred to as God-Incarnate.

You also wrote, "A single attestation from added to the NT to "juice-up" the crucifixion where there were no "christian" witnesses"

I would not say that anything was added to ""juice up" the crucifixion" but I would agree that there were "no "christian" witnesses" for the simple fact that there were no Christians, whatever witnesses there would have been would have been either Jewish or Gentile, would they not?

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

cmarshdtihqcom

You wrote, "It is not as simple as forgiving everybody. Jesus had to die to save the few who will accept salvation."

What if one "accepts salvation" and yet does not forgive?

By the way, there seem to be quite a few who have "figured out" the bible whereas the bible can help lead us to God but the bible is NOT God.

It does say in the bible that it is "God's Will that All be Saved", does it not?

Do you honestly think that "Christianity" is about some, and as you say few, picking up their "get out of hell" card?

"Christianity" is part of God's unfolding Plan which God has had since before creation and since Jesus died for us and Jesus invited us to "Come follow Me", just what do you think He is inviting us to do?

As I have said, God wins, satan loses, a tie is unacceptable.

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Well, well, well, we see that Thomas "The Hallucinator" and "Moses of the NT" Baum is back with some of his "thumptations" that were added to the NT to "kick-up" the simple preacher man to deity class.

"come follow me"-
1a) Mark 10:17-22 = Matt 19:16-22= Luke 18:18-23
(1b) GNaz. 16a

Crossan analysis:
Item: 253
Stratum: II (60-80 CE)
Attestation: Single
Historicity: -
Common Sayings Tradition: No

- "father forgive them"

A single attestation from added to the NT to "juice-up" the crucifixion where there were no "christian" witnesses

Luke 23:34 "Some early manuscripts do not even have this sentence"

-"repent and believe in the gospel".

1a) Mark 1:14-15 = Matt 4:12,17 = Luke 4:14-15 =(?) John 4:1-3
(1b) Matt 3:2

Crossan analysis:
Item: 214
Stratum: II (60-80 CE)
Attestation: Single
Historicity: -
Common Sayings Tradition: No

"Lüdemann

Lüdemann [Jesus, 10] describes this passage as "a summary didactic depiction of Jesus' preaching of repentance under the influence of Christian missionary terminology." Mark is portraying Jesus as the model Christian missionary: aware that the time is fulfilled, motivated by the imminence of the eschatological events, calling for repentance, and offering a gospel to be received with faith. "

I do recall salvation requires some initiative on the part of the saved.

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ Acts 16:31

It is not as simple as forgiving everybody. Jesus had to die to save the few who will accept salvation.

cmarshdtihqcom

You wrote, "No, I forgot the worst part. If Dad never accepted Jesus, as I fear he did not,"

If you remember Jesus said, "If you do not forgive, you are not forgiven", did He not?

He did NOT say, 'if you do not forgive, you are not forgiven, unless you accept Me', did He?

As I have said, God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof, God looks at the person, not the "label".

Christianity is not the "True Religion" for the simple fact that It is not a religion at all but a relationship.

Christianity is part of God's unfolding Plan which God has had since before creation and God's Plan will come to Fruition.

On the cross Jesus said, "Father forgive THEM ...", not except for or if they, did He?

God's Plan, the mysterious Plan of God, is for ALL of creation which includes ALL of humanity to be with God in The Kingdom, the new heavens and the new earth.

The seventh day shall arrive and it shall be preceded by the night of the sixth day.

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

No, I forgot the worst part. If Dad never accepted Jesus, as I fear he did not, it is the bigots, it is Westboro.

Now sit down Westboro. You are turning off the unsaved. I repeat. You are turning off the unsaved.

It is because of Westboro that dad tried, very sadly in fact, to talk me out of becoming a Christian, equating Christian with bigot.

My father wished more Christians had stood up to the Nazis, ColoradoDog. He was not personally affected by the Holocaust or the war (he was safe in Wisconsin and the war ended when he was 15) but he was compassionate for just about everyone.

Good point about standing up to bullies.

Now is the chance for Christians to do some standing up, for the victims, and for their supporters like my dad wishing more would be done from our direction.

The only way to stop bullies is to stand up to them and reveal who they really are - sad, insecure little wretches who use hatred, racism, and exclusion of others to manipulate the equally weak minded. More should have stood up for the Jews in Hitler's time. More should stand up for the gays now. The bullying is the same - whether is be in the name of the Fatherland or in the name of poor old Jesus.

You might ask why not close off choices to gay people, because this is a holy country.

This was a holy country until the end of Prohibition. Even then most people ignored it. Seems they loved their drink more than they loved God.

Are you suggesting this country is our country more than it is theirs (the gays)?
I don't think it is fair for less than the sum to tell the sum what to do. So it is their country too, their democracy, their laws, their marriages.

Even God supports free will. It was a risk God had to take when He created us. He could have created us without free will but then we would have no capacity to love, because love requires free will. I finally figured out emotional love for God when I equated Him to the UN Coalition in Desert Storm and the kind treatment to Iraqi surrenderees. We are spared hell, so were they.

I'd love to love a woman. But I haven't met the right one with the right kind of free will.

Later.

CCNL1, we are required to follow the New Testament and presume its authenticity.

We are forgiven if the writing is wrong. We are not to blame if the writing is bad. The writer is to blame. We are to blame if we do not follow the writing.

We do not listen to our feelings. I'd love to see gay marriage. I can vote on gay marriage as a citizen, and I would. I really think homosexuality is authentic, only a lunatic would volunteer for all that suffering and an early death.

Our opinions are not God. If they were there would be no uniformity.

Accuse us of making the Bible god, if you want. We trust the written word before
we trust our feelings or opinions. The Word does not change.

I think we can agree that hatred is the willing that any person or collection of people come to harm.

This includes the blood and guts portrayal of Jesus as avenging general in the Left Behind series. Those Christians who question the concept of rapture note that other Christians "get off" on the concept of Christians as soldiers, Jesus as general in Armageddon, blood for 200 square miles as deep as the bridle of a horse....

So, gay hating Christians, Jew hating Christians, racist Christians, repent of your hatred, and sin no more.

Hatred is not only murder (Matthew 5:21-22), to the Christian, it is suicide (I John 3:15).

Before you hate your next homosexual, remember that.

God doesn't tolerate hatred either. He is quite balanced.

All of us like-minded can dream-on about rescinding America's organized religion tax-exempt status. Though I have some respect for Rabbi Brad, notice in this piece how he serves up a bit of his own G-d's horrible anger, and in that I can hear his sotto voice, "heh-heh-heh, our own G-d used to do some pretty bad stuff...," smoothing it over. Rabbi Brad realizes an attack on any thing called a religion is an attack on them all.

CALSAILOR:

"These-People" are parasites, or like leaches and morph into pests as long as they have Uncle-Sam & Aunt-Liberty letting them get away with Murder, "Religious-Jealousy-Psychosis's", MY-gods-SINdrome" etc.. is because of their spoiled TAX-EXEMPT'rs I.R.S. Status's! [A Secular-Priviledge & not a Religious-Right].

So the best Repelent or Pesticide, so to speaketh; is to "REMOVE" their I.R.S. TAX-EXEMPT Status's In ALL 50 States! Hence how to cure a Man-Made Institution {not god made] whom are cursed & hath "DOUBLE-STANDARD-PSYCHOSIS" and caused soo much grief on Space-Ship Earth!

Note: We can't put them on space ships heading for Planet HELL! Note: HERE is OUR HEAVENS, not Theirs.

Soo, loud & Clear , so Uncle-Sam & Aunt-Liberty can hear US: That

WE must Tell Washingtons Congress to Remove All Faith-Based Priviledges & to Abolish All IRS 503 c Tax-Exempt Not-for-Prophet priviledges!

Note: After all, They must turn their Cheeks anyway, when they inevitavbly loose the Cesars, so called SECULAR-privilidge, not Religious ; if they are Righteous right?

Then & only Then Will our SECULAR public Square finally be Cleansed or Cleared of them IDOL Worshipers or "AMEN"-ra-re Sayers!!

CCNL

Your proposed newspaper ads are just not going to work because these people revel in being attacked, and especially in having their beliefs challenged. Trying to engage in a "debate" with them, especially how evil religion is, will only get them additionally reinforced in their beliefs that they are a persecuted minority doing God's work.

I don't know what will. It is hard to ignore them, when they aggressively picket the funerals of military troops, when they picket events that have no connection to their views just gets people aggravated. The more objectionable and uncharitable their presence, the more they have succeeded.

Pr Chris

Rabbi Brad,

Your reasonableness may be too bold for people publishing their sadnesses on the Internet. Thank all the (G)gods they represent only a small percentage of the population.

Most of the rest of us live in the year 2009 AD, not the year 1492 AD, or 1492 BC.

Knowing the history of humans, my motto is "Give all the gods a break, today."

To counter the crazies from the Westboro Baptist "Church", the following should be published in the Topeka newspapers:

Christianity, 2009

Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

Current crises:

Pedophiliac priests, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

Current crises:

Adulterous preachers, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology, all male hierarchies and strange banking and funding.

test