I am once again saddened by the way our religious leaders have once again re-written the Bible to fit their needs. Let us see, 3.8 million killed not murdered in Vietnam, 1.2 million killed not murdered so far in Iraq, 160 million killed not murdered in all the wars of the last century...

Christian crusades of the 5th and 7th centuries, countless killing...

No wonder many leave the church.

I am appalled. I have blood on my hands I was in Iraq and I will have to live with that for the rest of my life.

So for the rest of you, keep re-writing the book if it helps you sleep.

asoldier4peace
Farmington, MO

Rabbi,
similarities can be found between the Code of Hammurabi (1800 BCE) and the Ten Commandments of the Jewish Bible. Also similarities can be found in the laws of the Sumarian king Ur-Nammu (2050 BCE). Coincidence or a case of brillant copy?

Confront evil? With hate. Hate can be healthy. We had boy ambush some police. Thought he'd shoot it out and win. Now he's in a cell with a little light and no light in his soul being kept in cold storage. He hates himself and tortures himself, so I guess torture can be a good thing. Note that Nancy. If you want to go to war with us, you are going to need to bring more than guns. I have the ability to hate too. It's raining today, so all you tin soldiers better stay in of doors. Now it's back to business as usual.

honorswar26,

Nonviolent protests by the Palestinians are usually met with extreme violence and sometimes murder by the Israelis as this video shows. If Americans knew, yes indeed.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/aburahmevideo.html

On second thought, I can write "kill" here and not get censored. I can't write "****" here and not get censored. A little reappraisal of true foulness is in order, don't you think?

Even the followers of Judaism have a hard time determining the true history of Palestine.

To wit:

New York Times
ARTS & IDEAS/CULTURAL DESK | March 9, 2002
New Torah For Modern Minds
By MICHAEL MASSING (NYT) http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482

"New Torah For Modern Minds

Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called ''Etz Hayim'' (''Tree of Life'' in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine document.

Similarly ambiguous, Mr. Levine writes, is the evidence of the conquest and settlement of Canaan, the ancient name for the area including Israel. Excavations showing that Jericho was unwalled and uninhabited, he says, ''clearly seem to contradict the violent and complete conquest portrayed in the Book of Joshua.'' What's more, he says, there is an ''almost total absence of archaeological evidence'' backing up the Bible's grand descriptions of the Jerusalem of David and Solomon.

The notion that the Bible is not literally true ''is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis,'' observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to ''Etz Hayim.'' But some congregants, he said, ''may not like the stark airing of it.'' Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that ''virtually every modern archaeologist'' agrees ''that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all.'' The rabbi offered what he called a ''litany of disillusion'' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have ''found no trace of the tribes of Israel -- not one shard of pottery.''

In the OT, God tells the Israelites to do a whole lot of killing. And they do. But, those were just the Canaanite tribes who lived in the area. I guess they don't count against the Commandments if God tells you to smite them?

The Israelis should stop killing the Palestinians and stealing the Palestinian land, assasinating Palestinian leaders. Do you agree, Rabbi Hirschfield?

Historically, the land had been the land of the Jews for many centuries prior to the birth of Mohammed, so who's land is it really? It could easily be argued that Arab (Muslim) armies stole the land from the Jews during the Muslim wars of expansion. Muslims had maintained a policy of forbidding Jews from purchasing land in their ancient homelands as well. When the British controlled Palestine, they maintained the same ban on Jews buying land there for fear of offending the Arabs.

Assassinating Palestinian leaders? The Arabs declared war on Israel and its Jewish inhabitants from the nation's birth. So is it really assassination to kill enemy leaders who are planning military (terrorist) actions against one's nation? The same goes for killing Palestinians who fire mortars and rockets from the grounds of schools and use civilians as human shields to protect themselves as they deliberately fire upon Israeli civilian settlements that are nowhere near the West Bank.

If the Palestinians want an end to the death and violence, they can choose to end the violence that they persist on inflicting upon the Jews. You don't see many Palestinians advocating non-violent protests in the footsteps of Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. in spite of the success of the latter, do you?

Zebra4 and Coloradodog, you have a lot to learn about the REAL situation in Israel.

IN REPLY TO (IRT)
COLINNICHOLA
NOT GOD'S TRUE RELIGION BUT SECULARISM IS A CANCER!
POSTED ON JULY 23, 2009 6:22 PM

IRT:
“Religion was a cancer on poor old Ireland. Who can ever forgive the horrors committed in the name of a make-believe god? Listen to this old Irishman rage against his molesters, and WEEP.

ANS:
And what is this cancer you speak of? If there is any horror in Ireland, it’s not because of the Catholic Religion, but because Her precepts, Her counsel, Her wisdom, teachings, and beliefs were abandoned. The cancer that has metastasized Ireland is Secularism.

Pedophilia, as is Pederasty and Homosexuality are abominations of Secularism. Priest who are pedophiles are also abhorrence to the Church. They betray the Church and their sacred vows. On the contrary, these immoral illicit sexual practices are defended by the secularists.

The ACLU defends Pornography, has fulminated against the teaching of Abstinence before Marriage, has defended Gay Marriage and Same Sexual Unions, defended Nazi hate speech, and Pornography, even in the exploitation of children. Moreover, a Secular Court has concurred with them.

Hasn’t Ireland legalized abortions, the murder of the unborn? What can be more incredibly horrible than a mother having her unborn child murdered? No one defends the individual, the family, and the common good more than the Catholic Church.

She rails against gay sex, prostitution, surrogate mothers, pedophilia, pederasty, pornography, and murder of the unborn, and euthanasia and suicide. Breast Cancer and Carcinogen Contraceptives, AIDS, and STDs are the seductive gifts from the Sexual Revolution and Culture of Death. They are the offerings of the Secular World.

The Catholic Church inveighs against experimenting on the conceived, the unborn viz. Embryonic Stem Cell Research (ESCR) and IVF. Isn’t ESCR an echo of the demonic Fascist Nazis’ and the USSR’s KGB experimenting on human beings? ESCR ovarian stimulation and egg retrieval are a dangerous ESCR game that maims and has kill woman, and exploits the poor and the women of the Third World.

Does ESCR, the experimenting on living people, mirror the Chinese forcing women to murder their unborn? China is selling the organs of its prisoners on the open market. The Secularists not the Church have instituted the selling of aborted organs and flesh on the open market.

These are all supported by all Secularist societies. Secularism denigrate human life, and creates a world without the Catholic Church, God’s instituted Church on earth, the only true Church, the Church that once Ireland devoted its people too and now has abandoned.

“Those who kill life, kill happiness.” And to the contrary, there is a God; He loves you, and there is nothing you can do about—G.K. Chesterton."

"Judaism ... loathes the taking of even a single life."

Now I'm confused again. Is not Judaism the predominate religion in Israel?

Colinnicholas says "Religion kills, and always has."

No and not true.

If you use a hammer to saw through a piece of wood and a saw to drive a nail into a piece of wood, neither the hammer nor the saw are at fault, and for that matter, neither the wood nor the nail are at fault either. Each item has its purpose; it is the user who bears the responsibility for the way they are used.

Remember, "It is a poor workman that blames his tools."

Religion kills, and always has. Sweet and gentle religions are more a post-enlightenment development. Religion, in this modern secular world, is no longer allowed to torture or kill folks as in the days of Christendom. But they used to kill - not just in religious wars - but amongst their own - burning those who were unable to believe in the giant SkyFairy, and burning or drowning thousands of women they thought were witches. Religions past is more about torture and murder than anything else.
And now Ireland is about to announce yet another report on child molestation by hundreds of Catholic priests in churches and Catholic Institutions throughout Ireland. (See The Guardian UK)
Religion was a cancer on poor old Ireland. Who can ever forgive the horrors committed in the name of a make-believe god? Listen to this old Irishman rage against his molesters, and WEEP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jHqndf9Kx

I think, Rabbi, that certain problems aren't *about* the legalistically-defined 'potentially-sinful act' of *killing,* (depending who interprets that blanket and objectless 'command' 'Thou Shalt Not Kill,' of course. Another case of 'We must literally-interpret that term to our absolute convenience.')

There's a difference between "I obey 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' ...somehow" ...and, as someone more like Gandhi says, "I don't believe in killing."

That's more powerful than some may be inclined to believe. Deeper.

"I don't believe in killing."

Killing is not a thing to do. Killing has no real power. Killing is not a solution, only a stopping.

Justifying a killing in terms of 'evil' leads to.. More killing. More circumstances and attitudes and fears and smaller acts of violence and privation and delusion which *lead to* killing.

What if you simply *don't believe in killing?*

Perhaps you don't believe that a single lifetime is *you.* Perhaps you learn that what you fear to lose cannot be killed so easily?

Perhaps that's a way to wage peace.

These are points well-taken.

I'm much-informed by them. Pagan ways are perhaps somewhere between, in general. 'Hope to Hel it hafta harm none,' as I sometimes say. Act without malice. If needs be, strike without hate to defend. Getting indignant about labeling someone 'evil' won't make you a better fighter, should needs press: (quite the contrary) ..Just a more-frequent one.

Sometimes you've got to win a fight. But that's *all* you can win thereby.

Maybe I believe in *battle.* When needed.

I don't believe in killing, not as you do, anyway.

Some *things* may be evil. If they are, it doesn't take me saying it for it to need responding to in one way or another. People? Evil?

Why name 'evil,' especially if you believe it's something more cunning than those who hear the word and think 'Threat and fair game?'

Maybe I don't believe in Evil, as you do, either.

Why kill? Just make them think they are God-chosen.

I think that killing is sometimes justified but it always, always has to be done out of love for the greater good, and only when it is unequivocally justified. Our current system of jurisprudence has been found wanting when it comes to this standard.

Therefore, to me, what is worth fighting for is a fair and unbiased system that will make truly justifiable killing acceptable.

The Israelis should stop killing the Palestinians and stealing the Palestinian land, assasinating Palestinian leaders. Do you agree, Rabbi Hirschfield?