Farnaz1Mansouri1

You wrote, "Typology, "fulfillment" call it what you wish is supersessionism."

I didn't say that everything spoken of in the Old Testament was "fulfilled", I said that some that was spoken of in the Old Testament came to be but that there is still much that was prophicized that has not yet come to be.

I also pointed out that the Plan of God, which God has had since before creation is still unfolding.

If "supersessionism" means that the New Testament negates the Old Testament then I totally disagree because it doesn't, it is an unfolding.

As I have said before, I do not hold it against Mohammed that he was deceived by satan and I have also said that God looks at the person not the label or if you will, the religious affiliation or lack thereof.

You then wrote, "Bloodbaths. You know exactly what I'm talking about, Thomas Baum. You are no fool."

If you are talking about people using whatever they find convenient to justify their own shortcomings, then you should not stop at people using religion as a justification.

The world is a mess but looking at everyone else's shortcomings rather than our own ultimately does nothing except perpetuate what has come before.

Jesus said, "He who is without sin, cast the first stone", how many people that consider themself "Christian" take this to heart?

Throwing "stones" may make someone feel that they are "not as bad" but considering that we are "equal" in God's Eyes, something to think about.

Jesus wasn't kidding when He spoke about war and rumors of war until the end of the age for the simple reason that some people seem to thrive on trying to run other people's lives rather than trying to live their own.

No one no matter how much they try, no one can live anyone else's life.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Rabbi Brad,

It wasn't my comment that you took down but as the post on loonwatch reveals someone named Mutamer.

Anyhow, to echo WDSF, what in the world are you talking about! The banner has NO relation to Jews at all. Why are you continuing to cry wolf Rabbi?

LoonWatch, is obviously dedicated to exposing Islamophobic and anti-Muslim loons. How did you come to the conclusion that the image was related to Jews?

It's talking about the paranoia the West and America feels about Muslims hence the wording, "The Mooslims, they're here!"

The site is not anti-Semitic in the least! Your accusation that it is anti-Semitic, based obviously on a less than thorough visit of the site, is quite odd. It also contradicts this article where you take to task people who label everyone anti-Semitic or Islamophobic.

Again, can you name what on LoonWatch is anti-Semitic or at least go through that site more carefully?

"Though I will point out that you should be ashamed to link to a site with a grotesquely anti-Semitic cartoon on its banner..."

Mr. 'RabbiBrad' (I have no way of verifying you are the author of the column):

How does the picture on that website's banner relate to Anti-Sem.? To me, the banner is showing a "Muslim" who is "coming" to America.It is there to poke fun at the stupidity of far-right hatemongers.
It seems to me your deflecting rightful criticism of your column.

Farnaz1Mansouri1

You wrote, "The New Testament thinks it supersedes the Tanakh. The Quoran thinks it supersedes both."

What you wrote about the New Testament is merely your opinion and it is wrong. It is God's Plan unfolding not changing.

What you wrote about the Quoran seems to be what the god of islam wants people to believe.

Then you wrote, "Look back, and then to the left and right.
See blood baths anywhere?"

I have no idea what you are saying here.

Then you wrote, "P.S. Don't forget the Book of Mormon, the most recent and the last word."

Actually in the bible it says that there will be no more revelation but there is plenty of revelation in the bible that has not yet come to be.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Sorry to disappoint you MOONEYE, but I don't edit the comments, and would not have taken yours down, even if I did. Though I will point out that you should be ashamed to link to a site with a grotesquely anti-Semitic cartoon on its banner. Unless of course you are trying to prove that the Wiesenthal Center is more correct than I would like to believe about the level of Muslim Jew-hatred that exists in this country. If that's your goal, you are doing great!

Is Rabbi Hirschfield the one crying wolf here? A very irresponsible piece, especially considering that the Rabbi seems to be the one with a penchant for repressing comments. He only put back this comment once he was called out on it:

http://www.loonwatch.com/2009/05/rabbi-brad-hirschfields-double-speak/

Farnaz,
have you seen the "simpson's" episode where someone gets to the pearly gates and hears alex trebek in his best jeopardy voice say, "...and the correct answer is...mormon. mormon."?

oohh..."mormon"...who would have guessed THAT was the right answer?

btw, i see your comments about supersession brush up against our disagreement about "abrahamism".

Joe Smith's Book of Mormon as the last word??

Hmmm, are not the words of the strange, great "Babs" the last words forever and ever ?? At least that is what Baha'ist Professor Ali Davoodi taught his students.

Rank Death Toll Cause Century

1 55 million Second World War 20C

2 40 million Mao Zedong (mostly famine) 20C

3 40 million Mongol Conquests 13C

4 36 million An Lushan Revolt 8C

5 25 million Fall of the Ming
Dynasty 17C

6 20 million Taiping Rebellion 19C

7 20 million Annihilation of the South, Central and NortyAmerican Indians 15C-19C

8 20 million Iosif Stalin 20C

9 19 million Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C

10 18 million Atlantic Slave Trade 15C-19C

11 17 million Timur Lenk 14C-15C
12 17 million British India (mostly famine) 19C
13 15 million First World War 20C
14 9 million Russian Civil War 20C
15 8 million Fall of Rome 3C-5C
16 8 million Congo Free State 19C-20C
17 7 million Thirty Years War 17C
18 5 million Russia's Time of Troubles 16C-17C
19 4 million Napoleonic Wars 19C
20 3 million Chinese Civil War 20C
20 3 million French Wars of Religion 16C

Some "blood baths" carried out by Jewish forces as described in the Old Testament:

Exodus 32: 3,000 Israelites killed by Moses for worshipping the golden calf.

Numbers 31: After killing all men, boys and married women among the Midianites, 32,000 virgins remain as booty for the Israelites. (If unmarried girls are a quarter of the population, then 96,000 people were killed.)

Joshua:

Joshua 8: 12,000 men and women, all the people of Ai, killed.

Joshua 10: Joshua completely destroys Gibeon ("larger than Ai"), Makeddah, Libnah, Lachish, Eglon, Hebron, Debir. "He left no survivors."

Joshua 11: Hazor destroyed. [Paul Johnson, A History of the Jews (1987), estimates the population of Hazor at ?> 50,000]
TOTAL: if Ai is average, 12,000 x 9 = 108,000 killed.

Judges 1: 10,000 Canaanites k. at Battle of Bezek. Jerusalem and Zephath destroyed.

Judges 3: ca. 10,000 Moabites k. at Jordan River.

Judges 8: 120,000 Midianite soldiers k. by Gideon

Judges 20: Benjamin attacked by other tribes. 25,000 killed.

1 Samuel 4: 4,000 Isrealites killed at 1st Battle of Ebenezer/Aphek. 30,000 Isr. k. at 2nd battle.

David:

2 Samuel 8: 22,000 Arameans of Damascus and 18,000 Edomites killed in 2 battles.

2 Samuel 10: 40,000 Aramean footsoldiers and 7,000 charioteers killed at Helam.

2 Samuel 18: 20,000 Israelites under Absalom killed at Ephraim.

1 Kings 20: 100,000 Arameans killed by Israelites at Battle of Aphek. Another 27,000 killed by collapsing wall.

2 Chron 13: Judah beat Israel and inflicted 500,000 casualties.

2 Chron 25: Amaziah, king of Judah, k. 10,000 from Seir in battle and executed 10,000 POWs. Discharged Judean soldiers pillaged and killed 3,000.

2 Chron 28: Pekah, king of Israel, slew 120,000 Judeans

TOTAL: That comes to about 1,283,000 mass killings specifically enumerated in the Bible.

wdsf

You wrote, "On another note, I always thought that the Bible contained both the old and new testaments. I did not know that only the new testament is followed by Christians."

The bible, at least what Christians refer to as the bible, does contain both the Old and New Testaments and both together make up the bible.

I am not sure but I think Jewish people refer to what Christians refer to as the Old Testament as their bible whereas the Torah is the first five books contained in their bible.

One of the ways that at least some Christians think of it, is that some of the things prophesized in the Old Testament, have come to be in the New Testament.

And as I said, that there is a continuity between the Old and New Testament.

One of the ways that I look at the bible is as one book rather than a collection of books and that God's Plan, which He has had since before creation is still unfolding.

If I gave you the impression that the New threw out the Old, I apologize, to me it is an unfolding.

You also wrote, "Also, you said that "Koran flows from neither one even tho it purports to..."
I think you have it mixed up; Muslims do not believe that Quran is continuation of the Bible; Muslims believe it is the final word of God, that tech. supersedes the Bible and Torah."

It appears, from what you wrote about "supersedes the Bible and Torah", that that is how I look at it too.

Why would God say something to the effect: Forget what I said, it is not true but now this is what is true?

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

To Thomas:

I just noticied and closer read your post (I misread your post originally); You were just giving an outline of what you believe.

What I want to comment on is that how your subsequent post directly relates to inter-faith clarification; something that is apparently being challenged by the topic of this column/film.

Also, you said that "Koran flows from neither one even tho it purports to..."
I think you have it mixed up; Muslims do not believe that Quran is continuation of the Bible; Muslims believe it is the final word of God, that tech. supersedes the Bible and Torah.
On another note, I always thought that the Bible contained both the old and new testaments. I did not know that only the new testament is followed by Christians.

M_MUTAAL00,
what would change about islam as we know it if the ahadith were abandoned? would islam become "nicer"?

wdsf

You wrote, "You are giving an refutation to an belief held by another person; that is not the point of his comment. Firstly, his views can hardly be justified as Muslim (An Muslim must believe in hadiths)."

I was trying to point out that what he said is not true when He wrote, " "The Koran confirmed the Torah but condemned Talmudic excesses as Jesus did. The Koran confirmed Jesus and the Gospel but condemned the Trinity", no matter what his beliefs or if his views could be considered Muslim, by what is written in the Torah, the New Testament and the Koran.

As I said, the New Testament flows from the Torah, which I believe is the first five books of the bible and also from the entire Old Testament but the Koran flows from neither one even tho it purports to.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

For more on the Tanaim, Talmud and Tanach, see the book, *** Life After Death: A Study of the Afterlife in World Religions by Farnaz Masumian-

Said book is hard to find and apparently did not receive much use or interest as it is only found in the holdings of two libraries in the entire state of Pennsylvania. You can buy it on Amazon for ~$10 in paperback.

Apparently a rewrite by
Farnaz Sheikhzadeh-Zavareh, 'Afterlife in World Religions: an Overview of Major Concepts and a Baha'i Perspective', M.A. thesis, University of Texas at Austin, 1985, v, 108

and

"Divine Educators" by Farnaz and Bijan Masumian - out of print

To the commenter Thomas Paul:

You are giving an refutation to an belief held by another person; that is not the point of his comment. Firstly, his views can hardly be justified as Muslim (An Muslim must believe in hadiths).

The Article:
I find this article to be extremely biased. The film "Third Jihad" is regarded as hateful because exactly because of statements in the said film. The film begins w/ intro. of saying that most Muslims are not terrorists. Yet, the film dives in onto criticizing many aspects of Islam and claiming that there is a conspiracy of Mainstream American Muslim Orgs. trying to subvert the nation. It is the hate speech and the ridiculous of that claim that have American Muslims comparing the movie to Anti-Semitic media ("Global Jewish Cabal", etc.) Mr. Brad Herischfield needs to recognize that, yes, the film is incendiary, but the only outcome that comes out of it is damaging inter-faith relations.

M_MUTAAL00

You wrote, "The Koran confirmed the Torah but condemned Talmudic excesses as Jesus did. The Koran confirmed Jesus and the Gospel but condemned the Trinity"

Doesn't the Torah say that it was Abraham and Isaac that went up the mountain and that the Koran says it was Abraham and Ismael?

Doesn't the god of islam get upset when Jesus is referred to as the Son of God and if any one of us calls ourself a child of God?

It only stands to reason that the god of islam in the Koran gets upset at the mention of the Trinity.

The New Testament flows from the Old Testament, the Koran flows from neither.

I have also heard that the Koran doesn't even get the Trinity right when it condemns it, is that true?

Jesus spoke of the Father and He also spoke of the Holy Spirit but from what I have been told this is not the Trinity that the Koran speaks of, is it?

God is not the egomaniac that so many seem to think that He is, God is a searcher of hearts and minds not of religious affiliations or lack thereof and it is important what one does and why one does it and what one knows.

Also, God is not a He, a She or an It but is a Being of Pure Love, I use a masculine pronoun because it comes in handy even tho it is inaccurate. Of course, God-Incarnate was a Male.

Jesus became the Son of God at the same time as He became the Son of Man and that was when Mary said YES, before that He was what I refer to as the Second Person of the Trinity.

I have met the Trinity and I take God-Incarnate's Word that even tho God is a Trinity that God is One.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

I am not sure that the people holding the event really believe in free speech when it comes to criticizing Judaism(which ain't difficult given the Talmud) or Israel.

Thats the problem and in that way the Jewish zionist are similar to Sunni extremist.

Anyways i believe its hight time Jews abandon the Talmud and return to the Torah and Muslims abandon the Hadith and turn to the Koran.

The Koran confirmed the Torah but condemned Talmudic excesses as Jesus did. The Koran confirmed Jesus and the Gospel but condemned the Trinity. As a Koranist i am inviting Muslims to abandon the hadith excesses and return to the Koran.

Tru the scriptures do not provide an orthdoxy but that should not come at the expense of the scriptures. Islam followed the hadith to the teeth and abandoned the message of the Koran.

The hadiths are the oral traditions compiled centuries after Muhammad. Neither Muhammad nor his companions compiled any text but the Koran.

Compare freedom of religion in the Koran to that of the hadiths and you will see how different these two texts are.

Its time we return to the scriptures and abandon man made dogmas.

Hopefully the following lyrics are part of the movie:

Reality

O Islam, O Islam, violent Islam,
Sunnis of hate, Shiites of late,
Even Pretty Wingie Thingies cannot
Save us from O Islam's hate.

Save us from these Islamic FEMs,
Flaws, Errors, Muck and Stench,
As they ooze from the rocks of earth,
Like worms of death and wrench.

Born, Bred, and Brainwashed too,
Whatever, whatever to do?

Truth, Truth, History and Truth,
Let it Ring True, Freedom, Freedom
Freedom at Last and much left to do!!!