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What Will YOU Follow, Truth or Tradition?

Pope: Sunday Worship a "Necessity" For All
September 17, 2007 | From theTrumpet.com

Pope Benedict XVI says your life depends upon worshiping on Sunday.

"Sine dominico non possumus!" "Without Sunday [worship] we cannot live!" Pope Benedict xvi declared during a mass on September 9 at St. Stephen's Cathedral in Vienna.

Speaking on the final day of his three-day visit to Austria, the German pope voiced a strong call for Christians to revive Sunday keeping as an all-important religious practice.

"Give the soul its Sunday, give Sunday its soul," he chanted before a rain-soaked crowd of 40,000.

Benedict said that Sunday, which he stated has its origin as "the day of the dawning of creation," was "also the church's weekly feast of creation."

Warning against the evils of allowing Sunday to become just a part of the weekend, the pope said people needed to have a spiritual focus during the first day of the week, or else leisure time would just become wasted time.

Sunday worship, he warned, was not just a "precept" to be casually adhered to, but a "necessity" for all people.

In the opening greeting, the archbishop of Vienna said a movement in Austria had been initiated to protect "Sunday from tendencies to empty [it] of its meaning."

In Austria, most businesses are restricted from operating on Sunday. However, some business groups are pressuring the government to be allowed to open, a move Roman Catholic groups vehemently oppose.

During Benedict's trip to Austria, he called for Europe to look to its Christian roots, to trust in God and to defend traditional values.

The pope has been very vocal about Europe's Christian-or Catholic-roots, and is pushing to have them included in the European Constitution. Although laws concerning Sunday worship are currently determined by individual nations, look for the European Union to eventually gain jurisdiction over the work week-which is one big reason the Catholic Church is so intimately involved with the evolution of the EU. For more on the Catholic Church and Europe, read "The Pope Trumpets Sunday" by the Trumpet's editor in chief. .

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"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come (the return of Christ), except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exaltheth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4

"If protestants would follow the Bible, they should worship God on the Sabbath Day. In keeping the Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church."--Albert Smith, chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the cardinal in a letter of Feb. 10, 1920.

Does the Papacy acknowledge changing the seventh-day Sabbath? It does. The Catechismus Romanus was commanded by the Council of Trent and published by the Vatican Press, by order of Pope Pius V, in 1566. This catechism for the priests says: "It pleased the church of God, that the religious celebration of the Sabbath day should be transferred to 'the Lord's day.'--Catechism of the Council of Trent (Donovan's translation, 1867), part 3, chap. 4, p. 345. The same, in slightly different wording is in the McHugh and Callan translation (1937 ed.), p. 402. "Question: How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holydays? "Answer: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church."--Henry Tuberville, An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine (1833 approbation), p. 58. (Same statement in Manual of Christian Doctrine, ed. by Daniel Ferris {1916 ed.}, p. 67.) "Question: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept? "Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority." Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism (3d ed.), p. 174. "The Catholic Church,...by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday."--The Catholic Mirror, official organ of Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893. "Question: Is Saturday the 7th day according to the Bible & the Ten Commandments? Answer: I answer yes. "Question: Is Sunday the first day of the week & did the Church change the 7th day--Saturday--for Sunday, the 1st day: Answer: "I answer yes." "Question: Did Christ change the day? Answer: I answer no! Faithfully yours, "J. Card. Gibbons"--Gibbons autograph letter.

"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for the doctrines the commandments of men." Matthew 15:9

Receiving the mark of the beast or the seal of God in the mind or the hand is not a literal "mark" to be put on our foreheads or our hand but it is our consent to whom we will obey. "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey? Romans 6:16

All of our Christian religions had better start recognizing all the wonderful similarities and strengths or we will fall. I do believe that the Holy War predicted in the Bible has indeed begun. As we sit here bashing eachothers religion (and atheists and secular humanists disrespect what they often know little about), God's teachings are being ignored (especially in Europe and the US) while extremism in the name of Allah is threatening our very existance. As a former Atheist and now devout, practicing Catholic who spends her time doing volunteer work for migrants, donating regularly to food pantries, having my childen volunteer during school breaks and visiting nursing homes to bring Communion to the sick and their families, I am CONFIDENT in my belief and in my Faith. God's teaching DO NOT change; it is we who change and refuse to conform because it's often not easy. Regardless of religious differences, the bottom line is that all Christian religions are trying their best to honor God. God will judge us all, and I am confident He is currently wondering why we don't celebrate our likeness!

all due respect and love to jesus son of marry may the creator almighty god who created both extoll their names till the last day and shower his mercey uppon both, ameen.

the so called (jesus son of god )is not only idolatry but the bigest lie in mankind histroy ,those who claim a son to the creator let them bring their proof if they are so truthfull.
the son of god delusion is contrary not only to human mentation but also to all narrations(the scriputures).

For those who are tired of "arguing both sides of the pancake" (per previous poster) of the Jehovah's Witnesses - WatchTower doctrine, I suggest taking a look at JWs through the "eyeglasses" of reality. The following two NEW websites have gathered from the four corners over 500 U.S. court cases involving JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, and these are NOT the typical SCOTA cases that are posted all over the internet. Most are obscure court cases that barely received any media coverage beyond the single day blip.


The following website summarizes over 300 U.S. court cases and lawsuits affecting children of Jehovah's Witness Parents, including approximately 100 cases where the JW Parents refused to consent to life-saving blood transfusions for their dying children:

DIVORCE, BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS, AND OTHER LEGAL ISSUES AFFECTING CHILDREN OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

http://jwdivorces.bravehost.com

The following website summarizes over 200 lawsuits filed by Jehovah's Witnesses against their Employers, and/or incidents involving problem JW Employees:

EMPLOYMENT ISSUES UNIQUE TO JEHOVAH'S WITNESS EMPLOYEES

http://jwemployees.bravehost.com

John MacArthur on Catholicism:
http://www.wayofthemasterradio.com/podcast/2006/11/09/november-09-2006-hour-1/
http://www.wayofthemasterradio.com/podcast/2006/11/09/november-09-2006-hour-2/

Christian tradition is a pretty slippery slope.

You've got to pick and choose which traditions you accept, otherwise you're advocating such lovely Christian traditions as the Crusades, burning homosexuals, etc.

Don't even get me started about Christmas. Kill a tree for Jesus, and shop till you drop.

Why not let people decide for themselves how to celebrate their religion instead of cherry-picking arbitrary bits and pieces of barbaric behavior?

The good Dr. Edgar is on the side of the angels in reminding us about the role of tradition, idolatry and "lived experience" of the people. For example, the Right Reverend Haggard was leading thousands of souls to Christ while he was paying for and "experiencing" sex and drugs from a male prostitute. The good Senator Vitter was acclaiming family values from his pulpit while peregrinating through the bordellos of the South and "experiencing" extracurricularly. The excellent Pastor Pat Robertson has been preaching the values of Jesus, whose needle passed a camel easier than a rich plutocrat, while amassing a vast fortune off donations from poor people and the diamond mines of African dictators. The GOP's Rep. Mark Foley was hailed as a great protector of the nation's youth while he was lusting through the young boys of the Capitol page program. The Catholic prelates have paid out more than $2 billion in damages to victims of pedophile, molesting priests. That's big money even for the Pope. Donn Moomaw, a great UCLA football hero and brilliant LA pastor, fooled around with women not his wife and fell from grace, poor soul. Like a bright red thread, the tradition here is clear. Conservative churchmen say one thing and do another. They are charming Elmer Gantrys, more often than not, like the whited sepulcher Jesus noted, pure on the outside, foul within. Beware of this prime tradition, people. False prophets abound. Take nothing for granted. Trust but verify.

Mistaking the symbolic for the actual is a big mistake.

I actually agree with his comments.
You can't put tradition of ahead of the reason behind the tradition. Without Christ/God you would have no need to worship. So why put that ahead of the one who created it. As in many other cases, you can't put the creation above the creator.

Now with the styles of worship, it really doesn't matter as long as it's in the order of God. God isn't saying to himself, they are doing in Latin they are out of order, they are doing it in Greek they are out of order. No! He is saying they are worshipping me in spirit and in truth and in the order of God.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not base the foundation of their religion on Eccl 9:5. That is only one verse in the Holy Bible. One other verse that comes to mind that might fit yourself is Prov. 14:12.

Your editorial is poorly researched and short sighted.

No matter how thin a pancake is, it always has two sides.

Trachelizo

Mark Chapter 9

38. John said to him, "Teacher, we saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him, because he was not following us." But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him; for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon after to speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is for us. For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you bear the name of Christ, will by no means lose his reward.

Leave the Catholics alone. They are not against us and they go forth in the name of Christ providing a cup of water to many.

Mathew Chapter 9

14. Then the disciples of John came to him, saying, "Why do we and the Pharisees fast, but your disciples do not fast?" And Jesus said to them, "Can the wedding guests mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? The days will come, when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast. And no one puts a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch tears away from the garment, and a worse tear is made. Neither is new wine put into old wineskins; if it is, the skins burst, and the wine is spilled, and the skins are destroyed; but new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved."

Edgar is right, those who want to hold to tradition should be careful that they are not practicing idolatry to tradition. Old wineskins need to be thrown out. We are free from tradition and there is no reason to enslave ourselves to tradition. In doing so, we would become become like like some Orthodox Jew afraid to push the elevator button on the Sabbath or some Muslim who has to bow down 5 times a day. That is idolatry to tradition and superstition.

Edgar, I think, has made a most important point regarding this whole issue by bring up idolatry.

Bgone, as I said in the past, I'll take your website seriously when it figures out its HTML...eternity is much too important to trust it to an amateur website...

CANYON, you lovely person, you did it again.

Now tell me. Is your God the same God that Moses made the deal with? http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul has the story of Moses and the burning bush, in case you forgot it. Is that the God about which you speak?

If it is then please explain why trickery, plagues and murder were necessary for IT to get what IT wanted, and when is IT going to actually get what IT wanted, the Israelites to Syria, Turkey, Greater Arabia other places mentioned comprising "the promised land"? Was Judah on that list?

Another thing. God came along with the Israelites during their epic journey, "by day God was in the clouds and at night God glowed" describes "A" god that is neither everywhere present nor even the same thing day and night. Hint: that god is the sun and the moon.

You should be able to prove anything with a hoax. The word of God should be even stronger than a hoax shouldn't it? "Listen, if you have ears" and I'm all ears. Explain the enormous gulf between the God Who's praises you sing and the being in the ball of fire, the one Moses made the deal with. Mafia guys make deals and need just a little help from Devil to keep them.

Jihadist,

Yes, he does and it's too high-pitched and shrill for me.

Regards.

Canyon,

It's nice to see you back from your home planet!
How are things going there?

VDO,

Perhaps I embedded what is important in worship a little too deeply in my post.

As a Reformed Christian, I believe strongly in the doctrine of total depravity; which means that no matter how hard we try to please God, we fall far short of His glory, and actually any attempt we make to please God is like bloody rags in His sight.

Take for example Fanny Crosby's song, "Rescue the Perishing",

As we're playing our songs,
while we're singing them well,
have we forgotten the lost,
the reality of Hell?
If we say we love God,
Wanna see His will done;
Will we offer our lives,
or just the songs we have sung?

The Apostle Paul put it best, mainly because it was the Holy Spirit writing through Paul, "He died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for Him who for their sake died and was raised."

There is none good in me but Christ who lives within me.

The Bible outlines the proper form of religion in James 1:27; "Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world."

Faith without works is dead; Matt Redman wrote another religious song which says,

I’m coming back to the heart of worship,
And it’s all about You,
All about You Jesus.
I’m sorry Lord for the thing I’ve made it.
When it’s all about You.
All about you Jesus.

True worship is doing the will of God, following His commands, and preaching the word. There will be very few Sunday Christians/Weekday Pagans in Heaven; not because good-works are a prerequisite to Heaven, but because if there are no good-works in your life, the Christ is not in you, and you have no assurance of salvation.

Hebrews Chapter 10:24-25 sums it up for me:
"And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not forsake the assembling of the saints, let us encourage one another."

Church is a place for fellowship and learning the Bible; with these ends in mind; "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Canyonus Shearerus:)

Cantilenam eandum canis!

Jihadus

Okay, CS, you disapprove of the Catholic Church. Got it. You and Benedict have that much in common: Neither of you thinks the other is headed in the right direction. (Your interpretation of Catholic doctrine is inaccurate, by the way.)

The question was, what would you find necessary and-or uplifting in a religious service? You find the mass incomprehensible: With what would you replace it? Please be specific.

I once had a raging argument with a Catholic because I insinuated that the Roman Catholic Church was a cult. Ultimately through much discussion, determining exactly what the definition of a cult was, and that most Catholics would not say that only the Catholic denomination had the key to salvation, I retracted my statement and admonished the Roman Catholic Church to be a confused branch of Christianity in which the candlestick had been removed; akin to the ELCA or Episcopalian denominations.

But now I would like to reinstate my opinion of the Roman Catholic Church as being a cult.

I believe that the damnation of the Roman Catholic Church of the last five-hundred years began in the year 325 in Nicaea when a beautiful, near canonical creed was written. When the creed was translated into English from Latin, 98% of the creed was translated; but one word was left in Latin; and a cult following has grown out of it.

"We believe in one holy universal church" became "We believe in one holy catholic church"...where sanctam became holy and ecclesiam became church...catholic (universal) became Catholic.

And like the Jehovah's Witnesses with Ecclesiastes 9:5, the Quakers with 2 Corinthians 3:6, and certain churches with Mark 16:17 or 18; they took a single verse and created a theology out of it.

But to say that your interpretation of the Bible is correct and all others are not, when your interpretation is eisegesis and anti-Biblical; that's when you become a cult.

I am certain that there have been Catholics since the reformation that have gone to Heaven, albeit a small percentage, I'd be willing to bet at least one Jehovah's Witness has found the narrow gate, and while Quakers and other (unnamed) churches are just plain weird, wherever the Bible is read, people are bound to be saved. (Romans 10:17)

But for the Catholic Church to demand membership in order to receive salvation, that pushes them over the line into cult-worship and theirs is just another lane on the expressway to damnation. (Matthew 7:13)

All of this has been to lead into why the Catholic Mass is a works righteous attempt to Heaven. The Catholic Church believes in venial and mortal sin. In order to offset these sins, righteousness (in their eyes, see Isa 64:5-6) is worked in hopes that the scale will be tipped in the favor of Heaven. Certain actions, such as attending an incomprehensible mass, are thought to somehow contribute to their bank of righteousness. As all the works righteous religions of the world, this doesn't work on earth, it's not going to work in front of God.

While the Catholic Church prays for Israel, they may want to pray that the veil is lifted from their own eyes. Israel was promised a Messiah; but not all who are descended from Israel are Israel (Romans 9:5-6), certain Israelites have been blinded by their hardened hearts to the Messiah and thus will perish. The Catholic Church, in thinking they are the only true church have been blinded by pride and thus will perish.

Because the Bible is clear that there is only one way to Heaven. Well, actually two. You can be a good person and go to Heaven. But then the Bible informs us that there are none good, no not one. (Psalm 53:3)

The reason it says that is because God has laid out a number of perfect laws for us to follow. Among those laws are, 2. Thou Shalt Not Make a Graven Image; similar to worshipping the Virgin Mary, the Crucifix, or any number of a million saints. Others are easier to realize we have broken, such as 9. Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness; expounded on in Proverbs 12:22, saying that Lying Lips are an Abomination to the Lord, and then even more in Revelation 21:8, which promises that all Liars shall have their place in the Lake of Fire.

Other laws are 8. Thou Shalt Not Steal, and 10. Thou Shalt Not Covet, these are self explanatory, but 6. Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery are expanded by Christ Himself when He said, "Whosoever looks at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matt 5:28) and 7. Thou Shalt Not Murder is expanded as, "Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and you know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." (1 John 3:15)

James 2:10 informs us that if we are guilty of one we are guilty of all.

On Judgment Day all will stand before God, great and small, and the book of our conscience will be opened, and they will be judged by their works. (Revelation 20:12) Whosoever is not found written in the Book of Life will be cast into the Lake of Fire.
This is a scene yet to be played; and we know without help, we would all be doomed to the Lake of Fire. But for the love of God, not that we loved Him, but that He loved us; God became manifest in the flesh as the man Jesus Christ, born of a virgin, where He lived a perfect life, tempted but without sin. He offered Himself as the propitiation of our sins; the perfect sinless sacrifice, He allowed Himself to be a sentenced on a false charge and was crucified on a cross overlooking Jerusalem in our stead. Our death and our blood was due for our transgressions; but Christ took those transgressions upon Himself and paid in His blood and His death so that our fine is paid and we can be forgiven by God.

In order to receive this gift of life which was bought with such a price, you must approach God in sorrow, repent of your sins, and place your full trust in the atoning work of Christ to save you from your sins.

You will be forgiven, your name will be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, you will be Born Again, and you will know that you have inherited Eternal Life. You will be adopted into the Family of God and become a part of the sanctified catholic (universal) church; not for anything you've done, but because God did all of the work so that He can get all of the glory for being so kind and merciful.