All Comments (188)

I totally agree with this. I am a liberal Christian, and it is my most deep conviction that Jesus would be a liberal! Thank your for your insightful thoughts, and I hope to read more of what you have to say.

Sorry for the sixty million error. The "professor" clearly got under my skin.

As far as my hating Jews is concerned, that is in the eye of the beholder. Actually, I am incapable of hating anyone. I may disagree with people, I may be aghast at their actions, I may not like certain individuals, but I certainly do not hate individuals or whole societies.

People like the "professor" carry a big chip on their shoulder and will call anyone who disagree with them bigots, haters, and racists. Yet, it is them who really are the very same thing they call others.

Maybe if those people had a little more compassion and a little less self-impotance they would be able to see other's point of view. Sadly, they are too engulfed in their own little vendetta.

Dear Slim,

Just a closing point before the next question.

I do not hate Jews.

I do not hate Israel.

I do not hate you.

I don't even hate the bigoted professor, though I deplore his abusive behavior. He needs to clean up his act for sure; maybe even grow up.

You should know that I strongly support Israel in her difficulties in the Middle East. Perhaps we can discuss this at some future point.

I know it's off-topic, but there's been a lot of comment about it. At the risk of being stupidly branded as a racist or something, which I most certainly am not, I'd like to throw in a little support for Gaby, Terra and Mr Gandhi here.

I was utterly perplexed by the response to Mr Gandhi's condemnation of violence. Basically what he did was condemn Israel for perpetrating violence. I think very few people would dispute the fact that the state of Israel has done terrible things. But so has the US and so did Nazi Germany. The Arab states in the Middle East have been responsible for their fair share of attrocities. I think none of them should be immune to criticism.

When I read Mr Gandhi's article, I thought it was couragious for condemning the culture of violence in the Middle East. I'm sure he anticipated some flak, but I bet he was surprised at the ferocity of the response. I took what he said as constructive criticism. Getting beyond the Holocaust and overcoming the culture of violence in the Middle East are not bad things are they?

Perhaps his wording was unfortunate, but I really can't see how anyone could have interpreted what he wrote as being racist. Simplistic and biased perhaps, but racist? BTW Arabs and Israelis are the same race. They are genetically indistinguishable. The term "Jew" implies a person of a particular religion, a person of a particular culture and also, perhaps incorrectly, a citizen of Israel. These meanings of the word are are all different. None of them actually says anything about race. I don't think any culture or religion should be above criticism.

If I condemn George Bush's ill considered and disasterous war against Iraq, does that somehow make me a racist because most of the population of the US is Caucasian? Does it make me an anti-Americanist or something?

I re-read Mr Gandhi's article and I can see what got people annoyed. He implied that the Jews have taken advantage of people's sympathy over the Holocaust. I can understand people being sensitve about that, and perhaps it was not a wise thing to say, but it's probably true nontheless.

He also implied that the Jews are more responsible for the violence than the other participants: "Israel and the Jews are the biggest players". While I've never been to the Middle East and I'm not an expert on Middle East politics, as I see it, Israel is the bully in the region surrounded by a bunch of "kids" who want to "take a shot" at the bully to show how tough they are, but they can't really hurt the bully much because he's too strong. I'm not pointing the finger and saying the situation is Israel's fault. I think Israel does not have much choice any more, it has to be strong and tough to survive. But the situation is unfortunate for everyone in the region.

I didn't read all of the ensuing hate mail, but was it the fact that he used the term "Jews" instead of just "Israel" that caused all of the fuss? Maybe I missed something, but would the people who seem to want to start a campaign of hatred and slander against Mr Gandhi please either point out why what he said is either false or destructive or shut up!

Regards,
Realist

Moderate,

When you hate the world Jew based on lies, fallacies, and the exact same canards that were used to attack Jews during WWII, you are a Jewhater.

Some of the biggest Goebbelsesque lies that are propagated are those saying that the US has always loved the Jews, and the US helps the 'imperialist' Jews oppress Muslims.

Read the 'British Record on Partition' to learn the truth. It is the Arabs that were allied with the British and assorted Nazis in their effort to crush the Jewish state. Israel is a geopolitical miracle. And those same forces that were anti-Israel then, are anti-Israel now. The same forces that were Serb haters then, are Serb haters now.

And the US took over the British policy of aiding and supporting virulent antisemites in the ME, culminating in Condi shoving her pabulum about the 'moderate' Islamic nazi Abu Mazen down our throats.

Evidently, only Jews and a few others are able to comprehend why Western media lies about Israel so much--and that is because it is no different than the media of most of the 'great' empires of the past 2000 years.

Those who are predisposed to hating Jews will swallow it wholesale. Those who comprehend history and how not to repeat it will not.

Dear Josh,

Virus? Bacteria?

The "Moderate,"

Thanks for the lesson.

Now, Slavic is an interesting word. Perhaps, you would be so good as to tell us from which ethnic group you were extracted.

Farnaz wrote to The Moderate:

"Otherwise, you risk coming off like the racist pig you are."

The thing is the pig is an intelligent animal. Filth? Scum?

Dear Farnaz,

Gaby clearly meant 6,000,000, and you should give it a rest.

I am of Slavic extraction. Hitler had us in his sights too, you know. He killed twenty million (20,000,000) Russians, and assorted other Slavs. He had it mind that he needed about fifteen million of us for farm slaves, and that the other couple of hundred million would be disposed of the same way the Jews were.

Dear FARNAZ:

"Otherwise, you risk coming off like the racist pig you are."

I support the human race. Is that what you mean?

Gaby,

6,000 = six thousand

Did you mean that, or 6,000,000, which equals six million?

The "Moderate,"

I find it's always a good idea to read over, or preview, what you plan to post before pressing the "post" button. Otherwise, you risk coming off like the racist pig you are.

Dear Slim:

"You hate the world Jew because..."

I seriously doubt that Gaby hates Jews or much of anyone else. Am I wrong Gaby?

Dear Terra:

I am really sorry to have seen what an abusive person you have been dealing with.

Everyone who knows you here knows that you are a kind and tolerant person who harbors no racism, or anti-Semitism, or anti-Christianity.

Maybe this guy will grow up some day. But if not, then it is his problem.

Peace,

Mod

Dear Anonymous Bigot:

What I will write here is about you personally. So please do not try to pretend that my censure of your vitriol, vituperation, and gratuitous personal abuse of a kind and gentle person as being directed at anyone but you. But on to your rhetoric:

1.) You said: "I have met not Jesus, although from your tone, it is evident that you have. Perhaps, he is sitting by your side. If so, kindly ask him if, in his view, Mr. Gandhi's essay constitutes the sort of speech that belongs on a blog called OnFaith."

You are clearly against Christians, and blindly equate anyone you hate with Christianity. That makes you a bigot. Terra Gazelle is a kindly soul who happens to be Wiccan. Evidently you do not know the difference between Wicca and Christianity. That makes you an ignoramus as well.

2.) You said: "Israel repossessed its own country. There is quite a difference. We had been exiled by force, by the Romans, and when I say we, I do not of course mean all Jews, since some remained, just outside of Jerusalem. The Diaspora has not been good to us. We cannot depend on the kindness of others."

Are prior wrongs in deep history justification for new wrongs? If so, what of the descendants of the Canaanites who were "exiled by force" by the Israelites? According to the Hebrew Testament, the exodus Hebrews attacked the innocent inhabitants of Canaan burned their cities, stole their land, raped their virgin daughters, and conducted genocide against them.

3.) You said: "Now, since you are such an ardent defender of freedom of speech, would you kindly copy us with your letters protesting the firing of Don Imus, who was only doing his shock-jock thing? A person so high-minded as yourself would never have simply stood by and watched. (What would Jesus have said?)"

Don Imus got what he deserved.

4.) Mara said: "I believe I know who you are. If you are who I think you are, both my brother and I took courses with you some years ago. He is at Stanford, while I labor on at Yael, both of us pursuing doctorates in political economy.?

Are you really a college professor who can be recognized by former students from signature examples of bigotry? You clearly abuse the class room to propagate your hate speech. Shame on you. You deserve what Imus got.

5.) You said: "And, Ms. Gazelle, there are the Palestinian Christians, your co-religionists, who also flee into Israel, which takes them. Any comment?"

Terra had already told you she is not a co-religionist to the Christians several times by that point in the discussion. So in addition to being a bigot and an ignoramus, you are completely imperviousness to simple facts.

Terra Gazelle is a kind, tolerant, and well informed person. She should not have to deal with verbal assaults by puerile college professors. If you did not nurse so much hatred and anger you could have had a much more enlightening conversation with her.

Actually gaby, the NY has declared that the others killed in the holocaust are not worth a lick, thus it lies about them just as it does the Jews. Jews never declared such--it is your beloved media that has declared such.

Around 700,000 Serbs were killed in Jasenovac, yet around 1990, when the US became allied with Croatia, all the sudden it started publishing numbers that were closer to 60-80,000. And when the State Department run Holocaust museum opened, were the Serbs invited? Of course not, they had been declared enemies of the State Department. Instead, the Croatian holocaust denying leader Franjo Tudjman was present.

You hate the world Jew because the people that control media such as this site have always lied about the victims of WWII concentration camps. And this is why the Washington Post has no problem publishing Jew-hatred such as that which emanates from Arun Ghandi's warped brain.

Conspiracy theory? Hardly. Read Christopher Simpson's 'Blowback'. Read Carl Bernstein's 'CIA and the Media'. You are a brainwashed Jew-hater, not unlike those that fell for identical Goebbels-esque lies during WWII.

Gaby writes:

"Yes, Hitler and his ilk murdered 6000 Jews, but he also murdered 6000 non-Jews and that you rarely hear about. Every holocaust museum I've been to highlights the plight of the Jews. How about all the other people that perished??? They don't mean a thing???"

It means a great deal, Gaby. Before you go on, however, you should know that during the Holocaust far more than 6,000,000 nonJews were murdered. Tens of millions more. Not so good with numbers, are we? And then of course there was the horror of the Gypsies, who had been deported from India. 25,000 were murdered in one night.

Now, to you, 25,000 may not seem like a large number, but to them, it was practically their entire population. So, it is very important, indeed. The same was true for Jews. Almost our entire Diaspora was destroyed. Simon Wiesenthal, whom you may know something about, struggled on behalf of the surviving gypsies until the day he died. Where were you in this?

Hitler did kill the gypsies. As for us, he was amply aided by ordinary practicing Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants. People like your neighbors unofficially went out and slaughtered people. All over Europe.

You ask who cares about all the other genocides? Well the national Holocuast museum, for one thing, where you will find a great deal of information about Darfur and other sites of mass murder.

The survivors care and have written about other genocides. Younger Jews care and have authored numerous books about them.

The problem, you see, is that discrimination agains us began with Constantine and continues to the present. As the professor wrote. in the schools, in the colleges, in the workplace. The question posed to Gandhi had nothing to do with the Holocaust or with Israel. He brought them both up, and you continue with them.

Oh, and the Brits gave Jews Israel? Really. Try telling that to the Brits. It is true that had actually been the plan. There was no nation. The area had been under Bitish rule, the AngloChristians having taken it from the Turks. Now,once your co-religionists realized how Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the Emirates felt about more Jews coming over, things changed. The Christains, Catholics, et al, love oil. (Hence, they are busily slaughtering Iraqis.)

The AngloChristians actually went so far as to fire on a ship carrying Holocaust survivors, killing some of them. Israelis had to throw off their colonizers, and they did.

My own concern is with contemporary anti-Jewish racism. As the professor asked, whence this fixation with us in so many areas, except discrimination against us?

I have answered your quesion about other Holocausts. Now,perhaps you will answer mine. What about the discrimination against us? All the refugees from the Middle East? The Ethiopian Jews? The Jews of the form USSR nations. The Jews of the US, whom you simply will not leave alone.

I also wonder when you Christians will be dealing with the Native Americans as the professor asked. Clean up your own filthy house. When will you get out of Iraq?

And, most importantly, what is keeping you so terribly blind?

None of this explains why Mr. Ghandi is on this site, and when we will have his explanation of "what he has learned."

Namaste Gaby...

Thank you.

Terra,

I know you are not a racist and there is no reason that you have to defend yourself against this sanctimonious, I-have-the-answer-for-everthing, bigoted Anonymous fool.

Anyone who can write: "Israel repossessed its own country.", and take that statement seriously has to have more than one screw loose. They repossessed their own country after 2000 years??? What a joke. That sliver of countryside was bestowed to them by the Brits with international consent to atone for the holocaust.

Yes, Hitler and his ilk murdered 6000 Jews, but he also murdered 6000 non-Jews and that you rarely hear about. Every holocaust museum I've been to highlights the plight of the Jews. How about all the other people that perished??? They don't mean a thing???

This "professor" needs to get his own slant out of history and view history as it really was.

Just like his statement that 250,000,000 Dalits are enslaved in India. That is a world-wide number, the number for India is about 167,000,000.

Here is one of the few link I find credible http://www.dalits.nl/english.html

Namaste, Terra!

For some reason people here are giving way to much weight to a mediocre, cliché-filled post.
What else would you expect from a dimwit whose sole claim to fame is that he is the fruit of the loins of the fruit of the loins of Mahatma Gandhi?
The Mahatma, as great a man as he was; logic wasn’t always his strong suit! Neither was impartiality! He chose “forgiveness” over “justice”; “appeasement” over “fairness” and believed that “rooting for the underdogs” is ALWAYS the right thing to do!
A student of Indian history will point out how he bungled many times! Whether it be getting involved in the “Khalifat” or botching up the partition or his blind love for his surrogate “Nehru” over the more able “Patel” or “Subhash”. .....But I digress here!

Arun represents a section of Indian intellectuals who have this hackneyed view of history that is irrelevant and illogical.

Ok...you want to see my words as being racist and I say you are blind. All I have is what i have learned of people..and I certainly do not paint all jews with one brush, I paint the gov with a brush of hate and murder. I also paint the other side who will not stop their fighters from lobeing rockets and rocks at the Jews. But one thing that would help...get out of Gaza and the areas that were Palestine. Stop building walls that cut off people from farm lands and businesses and family.
It is the oldest argument in the world to get an argument and to muddy it with "No you're the Racist..." I have tried my best to be even handed...but you are a bigot against anyone who does not see things your way...someone that can not or will not see that you are one of the ones that keeps the killing and hate going. Blame is not helpful.It gets no one anywhere. Brother aganst brother, family against family...country against country will get us more of the same. Does that get any of us the lives or world we want?

So you can keep on blaming me, or anyone that does not kowtow to the blind hate that you reflect.

Yes I do skim alot, I have a hard time seeing...so long posts tend to blur out. So yes, sometimes unless I have the time to continuously go back I do miss things.

I understand coming to this county without knowing language or having anyone here to aid you...my grandfather came here from Calabria, another forebearer from Germany...you do not read my posts fully either do you? If you did you would have known this and that I am not Christain from the first post.

You hate...that is what you do. Blame all of a people for what some have done. You think you and yours have been the only people to have been hurt, killed, tourtured for being who you are? Think again. Four years ago I was attacked, my home broken into, I was beaten for being who I am.I spent a night thinking I was going to be killed.

My best friend a black gay, handicapped man who has lived a life of turning the other cheek. And living it in fullness and in balance.

I know many people that face discrimination and hate with dignity and not playing the blame game. I was followed at a market, a man screaming at me about how I was evil and doomed. I lost family and friends..and not just me but my husband who is not Pagan. There are many who have to live a life of secrecy, because of how we see God.

There is brutality on all sides of your conflict...but being selectivly blind on your own failings and fault does not immprove anything for anyone. Is that racist? To say that both sides are at fault, that without one side building a wall, cutting off family from family and then making the people beg for water and fuel and medicine...is that the way to bring peace? Or is it the way to bring on a Masada in Palestine.Or do you really care? Is that it...kill off a nation...men, women and children so that then the Jews can have the whole of the land?

I want to throw up at the thought that America has a hand in what the jews are doing. Adding to the suffering of both people...but then you don't care. Oh I do not have any degree in foreign relations or the history of the area...all I can see is what is happening. And my heart is breaking at such pain...but hate will not salve that pain, nither will it make the past fade. You can hate or you can go forward.

You do not know me...not how I think or even what I look like, all you can do is color my words with your brush. You are coming at it as if I was a racist to start with. All I can say is I don't care how you read my words...but I do care how my friends on this site reads me, and that is why I keep responding to you. Other then that...think what you want..your feelings toward me mean nothing in the long run. People talking peace and balance are seen as the wrong ones. All we are saying is hate births hate.

terra

Mazel Tov! Professor Anonymouse, Mara, Ken, Sean, et. al.

Ms. Gazelle,

For the final time, there is no such creature as Semite. The term "semitic" was created by a nineteenth-century German linguist to refer to a language group. It was then essentialized by your co-religionists to refer to persons, such as I. Speaking of spelling, I'm glad your orthography is improving.

I have no desire for you to "pile up on the Palestinians," but would like you to learn something about diction, with which Mara could and would help you if she had the time. There are 250, 000,000 Dalit enslaved in India. They are the the concern of Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, the United Nations, etc. They are enslaved. You could take the time to find out about them. They are your fellow human beings. Hinduism is far more essentialist than Christianity, Islam, or Judaism; unless their is intervention, this nightmare will continue.

Mara is a political economist. She, therefore, would be interested in the Dalit plight right now, as efforts are marshalling, however slowly, on their behalf. Her degree will give her the ability to help them. I would imagine she is in contact with the Dalit academics currently in the US, persons who have survived the trauma of their ethnicity and have achieved at a level I would wish for you. If I know her, she has been to India more than once in the last few years, and has already had an effect.

My problem with all of your posts is that you do not recognize the racist tenor of your speech, nor that of Mr. Gandhi's, that you are so ill-informed, and yet so passionate about things you know nothing about.

As I have said before, I have no problem with criticizing specific Israeli or Palestinian or French or English or American policies. Israelis criticize their government's policies all the time.

You would like to paint all Jews with one brush. Well, we are doing the same with you. That is how it is working for the moment. Put away the brush, and see what happens. Do not say hateful things, and you will probably not hear them. We Jews cannot say the same. Racism comes at us from all quarters.

People like Ken, Mara, Gloria, Sean have committed their lives, their enormous gifts to developing themselves in order to help others. I wouldn't poke fun at them. I would look to them as models, were I you.

You could also do research and learn. As a start, you could take time to read and reflect. You have skimmed over so much of what I have written, as well as so much of what Mr. Gandhi wrote. The offense he caused was not due to criticism of an Israeli policy, but due to racism, racism I would add, that had nothing to do with the question at hand. You could reread Mr. Gandhi's essay and see why it caused so much offense. You could read Judea Perl's letter to the Post. He is Danny Perl's father. Do you know who he was? If so, why not the read the letter? If not, why not find out?

Jews continually face discrimination, as children in the schools, in college, in the workforce. The country ignores this, as they have ignored the Ethiopian Jews, the Middle Eastern Jews, the NOrth African Jews, etc.

We'd like to know why we are so much the subject of Christian attention in so many arenas, except when it comes to the discrimination we continually face.

You call us "victims," Ms. Gazelle, but you see we have decided not to be victims any longer. You call us, with resentment, "the chosen people," but as I said, those words are in the Bible, which the Christians co-opted, stole from us. If they don't like it, don't read it.

Mara came here at twelve years old, with her family, having fled Iran in the middle of the night. She knew very little English and had a poor education because Iranian Jews are only alowed to attend certain schools. They were desperately poor. Mary struggled all the way, and succeeded brilliantly. Her GRE scores were off the charts. Her brother, who adoped the English name Ken, was beaten so badly by Muslim thugs that he has a limp that he will have for the rest of his life. But look what he is making of that life!

Yes, you could do worse than to emulate them. This will be my last post. I wish you well.

Well Anon,
I am Wiccan...NOT CATHOLIC or any kind of Christian...I am from another religion that has been tortured, imprisioned, hung and burned alive..I am a Witch...Wiccan. Ok got it??what was called a heritic by the good church fathers.

And what I have been saying is that we all need to care about life...stop wars and stop the vengence. Should I start going after the Christians and their inquisitions? If I were alive back then my red hair would get me turned into ash.

But I don't. I do not blame Christians for the 12 year old girl that her school mates tortured and harrassed for so many years that she hung herself. And why? because she was Wiccan. You know she left a diary...Why do they hate me...she asked. She hung herself with a lephard print scarf. Her name was Tempest Smith. I blame the parents that did not teach their children the basic respect for humanity.

I do not blame the Christians for the young Wiccan Mother of a 11 year old honor student son, that the town of Walker, La. ran out of town with bomb threats. I blame the red neck idiots that did it.
And so much more.

Why call me racist? Because I will not pile up on the Palestinians? Maybe because I see that they are fighting for their survival. And you do know that Muslims as well as Jews are Semites???So being on one side or the other does not make you antisemite unless you hate them both.

Hate...? I do not have hate. I try to see all sides of things...after all I have no dog in the Muslim/ Jew fight. If I was a jew I imagine I would be more angry. I got all I can do to fight my own problems. You want to stand up for my fights...I will help you..But so far we Pagans have had to stand up for ourselves except for a few friends.

Oh and Mara, I believe Yale is spelled Yale. It must be interesting to get involed in such a traditional discrimination as the Dalit. What have you discovered? Don't you think that a belief such as that had to come from a source from the beginning of the Hindu?

Again Anon,
I am not Christian, I did not take any part of your holy text, I have my own...We do not go by the bible. We are not Jew or Christian, we are pre Hebrew and pre Christian. Pagan...you know the Cannanites? The Babylonians, The Persians....etc. We are the Celts before Christians,we are the Greeks before Paul,we are the Romans before Constantine, we are the Northern Heathen before the Good Word of Jesus. We are the Strega, The Norse,the Astrau, I am a Pagan. A pre Classical Pagan...not a Christian. And I do not use any part of the bible, the torah or anyone elses sacred text...so do not blame pox infested blankets on me, or the thievery of your holy book or anything else on me and mine. We got all we can carry.
terra

Dear Mara,

How wonderful to hear from you, and in such an unlikely place! Yes, I am who you think I am, and I would very much like to hear from you, Ken, Gloria, and Sean. You know, the last time you and I were in communication was when you found out you had been accepted to Yale. I remember, and I also remember you as a night owl, like me, working until the library closed. I guess some things stay the same.

Faculty email addresses, however, have changed, but if you contact the Department they will give you my new one.

Dear Anonymous,

I believe I know who you are. If you are who I think you are, both my brother and I took courses with you some years ago. He is at Stanford, while I labor on at Yael, both of us pursuing doctorates in political economy.

As you know, your courses changed our lives. Ken and Sean, who was in your class with my brother, have done a lot of work on two Indian reservations, very much inspired by you.

I'm sure Mahmood has told you of the work he is doing with Gloria.

As for me, my dissertaion is on the Dalit.

No one but you could have such wide-ranging interests and knowledge of social injustice. You gave us pride in ourselves. Gloria is still a Catholic as is Sean, but they see things differently. The thing is, like so many people, they just didn't know, as they told you, and as you knew so well. We'd all like to get in touch with you.

If you are the prof. I'm thinking of, could you let me know? I still have your email address.

It is appalling that this Gandhi fellow is still on this site. I Knew nothing of this whole mess until a friend mentioned it to me. Hopefully, he'll go away soon. Would that all such persons followed him!

Warmest regards,
Mara

Irate Anonymous:

On Terra Gazelle, I have seen her posts for a long time, and I just don't think that she is a racist, or antisemitic. I am pretty sure that she is not Christian to say nothing of Catholic. I have never seen her say anything hateful.

I don't think you are reacting to the real Terra Gazelle, my friend.

Gazelle,

Poor racist, hateful thing.

Use their victimhood? You mean like the Palestinians? The African Americans?

Or just Jews, whom you cstholics continue to victimize.

Yes, it is hard, when your victims tell you to shove it, or in your case, bring it to your tree, or as Observer suggested earlier back to your rock, your pope, potatoes, pasta, whatever.

See that's just it, Gazelle. We're not going to be your victims anymore. And, as you see, I'm not only referring to Israeli Jews. Stand back. Those days are over.

It all started with you catholics. And by the way, don't you think your pope should be paying a few of his billions in oil wealth to help the Israelis guard your ridiculous shrines, which mean nothing to us and which cost Jewish lives? Which could go to help the Esraeli poor, who are not only Jews?

The Ethiopian Jews?

The Middle Eastern Jews?

The Native Americans?

The African Amrericans--Jewish, Christian, and Muslim?

Your thoughts, or what passes for thoughts in a case like yours?

Gazelle,

How little it takes to see more and more of your viscious racism come out. Hatred and racism.
Jews returned to their own land. Some remained from the beginning, but were exiled from Jerusalem. Others have been returning since the beginning. That does not give Palestinians an excuse for murdering and tortoring them, nor Christians like your bigoted self an excues for condmening them.

And the 1200 Muslims of Gujurat?

The Ethiopian Jews?

The three million Jews deported from their native Middle Eastern lands?

The Native Americans?

I'm waiting. I'm still waiting to see you post on them.

Ironic, isn't it, all these Christian double standards?

On another note, as I wrote to Guyminuslife, you can certainly criticize Israel. The Israelis do it all the time, just as some of us criticize America. The quesion is how you do it. Mr. Gandhi's criticism was racist, as is yours. The "jews" [sic]? I wasn't born in 1948.

You Christians always bring up this "chosen" business, but we didn't say we are chosen. The Bible says so. If you hadn't stolen our text and colonized it with your own, you wouldn't be so preoccupied with it. Why don't you just excise it from your "Old" Testament as you have tried to excise us? Or better yet, get your own text.

I'm done. May whatever tree you currently worship have mercy on your bigoted soul,

Gazelle,

How little it takes to see more and more of your viscious racism come out. Hatred and racism.
Jews returned to their own land. Some remained from the beginning, but were exiled from Jerusalem. Others have been returning since the beginning. That does not give Palestinians an excuse for murdering and tortoring them, nor Christians like your bigoted self an excues for condmening them.

And the 1200 Muslims of Gujurat?

The Ethiopian Jews?

The three million Jews deported from their native Middle Eastern lands?

The Native Americans?

I'm waiting. I'm still waiting to see you post on them.

Ironic, isn't it, all these Christian double standards?

On another note, as I wrote to Guyminuslife, you can certainly criticize Israel. The Israelis do it all the time, just as some of us criticize America. The quesion is how you do it. Mr. Gandhi's criticism was racist, as is yours. The "jews" [sic]? I wasn't born in 1948.

You Christians always bring up this "chosen" business, but we didn't say we are chosen. The Bible says so. If you hadn't stolen our text and colonized it with your own, you wouldn't be so preoccupied with it. Why don't you just excise it from your "Old" Testament as you have tried to excise us? Or better yet, get your own text.

I'm done. May whatever tree you currently worship have mercy on your bigoted soul,

Anon,
It is Wiccan, not wiggan.

Do you like playing the victim? Everyone on this planet has been abused at one time or another for one thing or another.

Gender, color, sexual orientation, religion...natives called savages because someone else wanted their land and resources...the rich taking what they want and the poor kept poor for their use.

There will always be those who want to have power over others. Then there will always be those who use their victimhood.

Oh and my forebearers did not get to this country until early 1900's. They came from Ireland, where the rich took the land and people were dieing from starvation....and from Calabria.Where the nobility taxed the people into poverty. I can guarentee that they did not send one blanket to any indian res with pox on it.

terra

Anon,

"Christians used to have the option of not being anything. If you asked one who was non-practicing, s/he would say s/he was nothing, or s/he was an atheist. That is less and less the possible for them. Now, one things of them as either secular of religious, as they have always thought of us, of everyone who was not them.Since Christians cannot dispense with essentialism, this, in some ways, is a salutary development for us all."

What???

I am not Christian (I say again for the third time)

The jews took the land that they lived on from others. So how far do you want to go? The original people were Canannites. They lived on the land 3 millenium BC, 2000 years before there were Hebrews. The Hebrews stold the land, killed the people, took the virgins as slaves or wives, forcing them to marry or serve the murderers of their familes. But then the god's chosen people...I wander if anyone thought to ask, "chosen for what?" ot if it was a great exuse to be seen as righteous after all the stealing and murderering.

If you are going to go back in history...then go all the way.

terra

Jesus would vote according to the issues, not the party. Jesus would be for truely life-affirming laws and policies, and the defense of the dignity of the poor and weak both foreign and domestic.

Dear Guyminuslife:

Just read your last. You don't say what your ethnicity is, but if you are a Jew, you are a Jew. This is not my doing. It is the world's. Christians used to have the option of not being anything. If you asked one who was non-practicing, s/he would say s/he was nothing, or s/he was an atheist. That is less and less the possible for them. Now, one things of them as either secular of religious, as they have always thought of us, of everyone who was not them.Since Christians cannot dispense with essentialism, this, in some ways, is a salutary development for us all.

Still, their case differs significantly from that of Jews. Being Jewish, notwithstanding the Enlightenment, remains an essential category. If you are a Jewish man, I assure you, you are not "white." Now, take a look at history and the world around you. Would you want to be?

The issue remains Mr. Gandhi's essay. What is a racist doing on a panel devoted to issues of faith?

Dear Guyminuslife:

The term "manifest destiny" was introduced into this country by a Christian referring to the will of God for Americans to push their way west.

Israel repossessed its own country. There is quite a difference. We had been exiled by force, by the Romans, and when I say we, I do not of course mean all Jews, since some remained, just outside of Jerusalem. The Diaspora has not been good to us. We cannot depend on the kindness of others.

But I wonder whence all this obsession about tiny Israel? I'd like to hear more on the Native Americans who are colonized in their own country as a result of manifest destiny. Have you spoken out for them? I have.

Also, are you not afraid to criticize the Sudan for detaining and torturing Ethiopian Jews?

Are you not afraid of criticizing Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, etc., for forcing what are now three million, yes, three million Jews out of the lands in which they dwelled for centuries?

I wonder if you even know of these crimes against humanity. I rather doubt it. We Jews have no oil money, no oil producing nations to back us up.

But, you know, none of this goes to the point, which is that Mr. Gandhi's essay is racist. As for your point, anyone can criticize anything. Certainly, it is acceptable to criticize Israel on specific issues, just as it is acceptable to criticize this country's. One can do these things and still not do so in a racist way. Israelis criticize their country constantly.

It is also possible to criticize Turkey for its treatment of Kurds; Spain for Basques; Egypt, Saudi Arabia, et al, for their treatment of Palestinians; India for its slaughter just a few years ago of 1200 Muslims while the police stood by (see human rights watch), India for enslaving 250,000,000 Dalit (Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International); Palestinian Muslims for driving out Palestinian Christians, for honor killings, car bombings, etc.

What is so curious to us Jews is why so many people seem to be so obsessed with us in so many arenas. Could it be due to the racism spread throughout the world by the Christians, racism that in the Middle East has been Islamicized? Could that be possible?

You would think that a panelist on a blog called "OnFaith" would know that you can criticize a nation without doing so in a racist way. Why don't you take a look at some of the hundreds of emails that followed his essay? Particularly, look at Judea Perl's letter. He is the father of Danny Perl, neither the first nor the last to be killed because he was a Jew.

On that note, I think I can list off several ethnic identities of mine that were at some point oppressed, though. Heinously. By Nazis. By communists. By capitalists. People who were starved and beaten, who were viewed as inferior species, who were killed, quickly and slowly and mercilessly, by virtue of nothing but their last name.

Lucky me, grandchild of the suffering masses, I just get to be "white," "male," "American." But apparently I'm oppressed and I have carte blanche to do my own goddamn oppressing. And if anyone calls me out on it, well, you're racist against my identity du jour. That's the mentality we're at. That's the insanity.

I called China's government communist once, and so I am racist against Chinese people.

I thought that the Rwandan genocide was heinous, and so I am racist against black people.

I'm not a big fan of Hugo Chavez or Fidel Castro, so clearly I hate Hispanics.

I'll talk at length about the evils of King Leopold's Congo, too, so I must despise Belgians.

I do think that Britain treated Ireland unfairly during its occupation, so I'd have to check "yes" on whether I am prejudiced against limeys.

Really, the Napoleonic Wars were completely unjustified, I'd say, so I'm opposed to French people.

I must be un-American for wondering whether it was really necessary to give all those diseased blankets to Indians.

Let's not even talk about Turks, Germans, Russians, Serbs, Romans, Spaniards, and Tlingits!

... and I am unafraid to criticize the Israeli government and the manifest destiny of Zionism, so I guess I'm an anti-semite, too. (My Jewish friends will be very dismayed, I am sure.)

I agree, but then again, neither of us are Christians.

Ms. Gazelle:

We continue to see in your posts so much hate and so much racism.

When a young boy carrying his lunch to school winds up missing, his remains painted on the walls of a cave by Palestinians, when hundreds of boys and girls are burned beyond recognition so as not to unduly harm their assailants, one has to ask how long this would go on in the US. When a seven-year-old girl covers her two-year-old brother in the middle of a car bombing, and dies, leaving the brother an orphan, since his parents died as well, one has to ask how long such things would go on here.

Diasporic Jews are in the Diaspora because they were driven from Jerusalem by the Romans, following the Bar Kochba war. Islam had not yet been created, as that remarkable historian, Ms. Gazelle, certainly knows.

Then came the Muslim Turks, about whom we can expect more from Ms. Gazelle, then the Christians, who in between killing Jews and Muslims, took time out to spread anti-Jewish racism.

As a Wiggan, former Christian, I can certainly understand your concerns. After all, your people not only stole this land from the Native Americans, but tortured them in the process, giving them blankets infected with small pox, burning them to death and showing how this atrocity was predicted in the "Old" Testament.

Now, you have them on reservations, where they are dying like flies. You will honor none of your treaty obligations. How frightening it would be for the likes of you if they decided to repossess the land that was theirs. The Lord be with them if they do.

Mexico is one of the poorest countries on earth. The Christians stole Texas, New Mexico, and much of the Southwest from Mexico. What if, they, too, chose to repossess their land?

Christianity and Islam have a history of Imperialism. Of course, their nations fear the rebellions of the dispossessed.

Another liability for Israel--it has no oil-producing nations supporting it.

A funny thing: You have not yet posted on the three million Jews who have been forced to flee Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Yemen, etc., where they dwelled for centuries.

Why not?

What of the Ethiopian Jews,many thousands of whom have been airlifted out of Ethiopia by the Israelis so that they could continue to live? There are still Ethiopian Jews living in that hell hole, as Israel continues to do its best to get them out.

In the meantime, they are walking, yes walking to Israel. On the way, many of them have been stopped, detained and tortured in Sudan.

Now, as you know, the Sudanese have been fleeing from their own hell hole, ending up in Egypt, where they had been turned back unless they made it to Israel, which,of course, took them in. They took them in until the Ethiopian Jews protested and protested and protested. They did not want to live among their torturers.

They asked some questions: We are a very tiny state. Are there no Christian countries in the world? Are there no Christian countries that could take them in?

Well....

And, Ms. Gazelle, there are the Palestinian Christians, your co-religionists, who also flee into Israel, which takes them. Any comment?

What of the fact that one of every three murders of Palestinians is by Palestinians and is an honor killing, the murder of a woman, usually by her brother for the crime of having been raped?

And, Ms. Gazelle, I'm surprised that one as knowledgeable as you does not know that there is no such thing as a "semite." The term originated among nineteenth-century linguists to describe a language group. It was then essentialized by the EuroChristians to refer to Jews, Arabs, and Iranians. There is no such animal as Semite. Hence we use the terms antisemititsm and racism interchangeably. The latter is more accurate.

I regret the polemics, but your writing is racist. Perhaps, you haven't read Gandhi's essays carefully enough. Perhaps, you are arguing out of your league....I don't know. I'm thinking of an email I just received from a Pakistani friend, Mahmood,who asks about the war you Christians started in Iraq: "How can they call themselves the religion of love? What has hardened their hearts against so many people?"

That is what I always ask myself. What has hardened the hearts of so many Christians for so many centuries?

assuming there was in fact a historical jesus, i agree with arun gandhi.
Jesus would be a liberal, and very likely under serveillance by the current christian government

I see that hate is the fad of the times. I am not bigoted toward Jews, Muslims or anyone else. Is our policies really representative of the people?
I can seperate the wrong headedness of this President and the millions of people that do not want a hundred year war or torture.

When a young American girl stood to protect a Muslim home from the Israeli tanks...they ran over her. When bombs are dropped by the Israelis and suicide bombers kill them selves for vengence of those Muslim dead...who wins? How many more generations should die? Maybe some of you should read some history. No one is innocent, and no one is all evil. But with our help with Billions of dollars abd weapons we have taken sides in this war...and we are hated because of it.

George Washington said that this nation should not take sides in other nations...he was right. It has brought about 9-11 and much more.

Now as far as being antisemetic? Muslims are Semetic...same as the Jews. They come from the same tree.

Now say what you want to me... I can shrug my shoulders at you because what you think of me is of no count. We all have the right to voice our opinions, I have done that, as have you.
terra

Looks like you people don't know much about Prophet Jesus.

Poor Fellows! Atleast listen when someboby boldly talks to you.

Mr Gandhi,

Actually I think Christ had this to say about people like you:

"...if the blind lead the blind, both shall into the ditch."

Terra Gazelle wrote to Anonymous:

"After reading your comment I have to wander what you are bent about."

Funny,I was just wondering a couple of things about you! Precisely what rock was it that you climbed out from under? And would you kindly return to it and trouble us no more?

You are yelling fire in a croweded theatre. When you go back to your rock, contemplate that.

The Jesus of the Gospel believed in exacting capital punishment for sin so much that He Himself accepted the capital punishment for the sins of the world.

Jesus would definitely support the capital punishment in principle. Only in extreme and utterly rare circumstances would He be merciful in sparing people of the capital punishment for crimes. Again, He does this only in extremely rare circumstances to teach us about the Gospel and His loving character. This is more of an exception than the rule.

Gotcha, Ms. Gazelle. It's only Jews who can be victimized by bigotry. Now, how did I know that what you erroneously lable free speech extends only to racism against us?

If you followed your own illogic, you certainly would have advised that those who fired Imus "turn the other cheek," and you would suggested the same for Mayor Giuliani.

Jesus also said, "Love thy neighbor." Apparently, you are very selective in whom you love and in whom you choose for neighbors.

Why don't you read Judea Perl's response to Mr. Gandhi? He is the father of Danny Perl.

I'm so sorry for you, Ms. Gazelle, as I am for all bigots, and racists. Bigotry is a form of intellectual surrender. Bigots deprive themselves of so much of the world's loveliness.

Still, I don't think they belong in discussions of faith. They need healing first, and I sincerely hope, that as a bigot you choose the path of seeking moral health.

Gee what alot of hate slammed toward a gentle man because he is for love, understanding and tolerance...and as a non Christian believes that Jesus would be all for it.

As a Wiccan I also think he would.

What mean and contrary people you all are.

terra

Mr.Gandhi,

I think you are wrong about the Democrat party. Almost every bit of progress that this country made was because of the Democratic party. Social Security, Unemployment, Welfare, civil rights and the voter act...etc.

The Democratic Party traces its origins to the Democratic-Republican Party, founded by Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and other influential opponents of the Federalists in 1792. Since the division of the Republican Party in the election of 1912, it has consistently positioned itself to the left of the Republican Party in economic as well as social matters.

The economically left-leaning activist philosophy of Franklin D. Roosevelt, which has strongly influenced American liberalism, has shaped much of the party's economic agenda since 1932. Roosevelt's New Deal coalition usually controlled the national government until 1964. The civil rights movement of the 1960s, championed by the party despite opposition at the time from its Southern wing, has continued to inspire the party's liberal principles.

Do not confuse us with those like the Blue Dog Democrtes. They are a small group of Republican Lite stuck in the senate. Hopefully com e the election they will be thinned out.

Can I say...OBAMA 08!
terra

Well Anonymous, you are asking alot from me but then you dare not give a name.

And as far as knowing Jesus...Love your neighbor as yourself, if a man should strike your cheek, turn to the other...if a man be cold, give your coat. I met him years ago...he is a nice man...goes door to door, barefoot and healing.

But then I am not Christian...I am Wiccan.

and what is "copy us"?

I find the act of going in a parade in black face is bigotry. It is offensive and hateful. They should have been fired. After all Giuliani may wear a dress, but his blush is pink.

Don Imus should still be collecting unemployment. All the talking heads that think it is ok to belittle and humiliate others as long as they say it is just a joke..they need to learn that humor does not hurt.

There is a difference in protecting free speach and shouting fire in a crowded theater.

So you allow free speach for everyone except those you disagree with? Poor nameless thing.

After reading your comment I have to wander what you are bent about.

terra

Dear Ms. Gazell:

I have met not Jesus, although from your tone, it is evident that you have. Perhaps, he is sitting by your side. If so, kindly ask him if, in his view, Mr. Gandhi's essay constitutes the sort of speech that belongs on a blog called OnFaith.

No one wishes to censor Mr. Gandhi. There are many venues for racist speech, and not only on the internet. The question is whether or not it belongs here. Many of your co-religionists think not. But then, they probably do not know Jesus as intimately as your self-righteous self.

Now, since you are such an ardent defender of freedom of speech, would you kindly copy us with your letters protesting the firing of Don Imus, who was only doing his shock-jock thing? A person so high-minded as yourself would never have simply stood by and watched. (What would Jesus have said?)

Also, kindly copy us with your letters to Mayor Giuliani when in 2003, he fired a policeman and two firemen for dressing up in blackface, in a parade, on their own time. This made national news. The men, in previous years, had made fun of several ethnic groups including there own. What did you and Jesus do then?

Do tell. And if the answer is that you did nothing, spare us your sanctimonious, hypocritical nonsense.

Now, I ask myself: Would Jesus countenance the following on a discussion of fath? Or would he suggest Mr. Gandhi go elsewhere with his racism? Would Jesus suggest you accompany that man?

I haven't met Jesus. But I think he'd answer in the affirmative:

Jewish identity in the past has been locked into the holocaust experience -- a German burden that the Jews have not been able to shed. It is a very good example of a community can overplay a historic experience to the point that it begins to repulse friends. The holocaust was the result of the warped mind of an individual who was able to influence his followers into doing something dreadful. But, it seems to me the Jews today not only want the Germans to feel guilty but the whole world must regret what happened to the Jews. The world did feel sorry for the episode but when an individual or a nation refuses to forgive and move on the regret turns into anger.

The Jewish identity in the future appears bleak. Any nation that remains anchored to the past is unable to move ahead and, especially a nation that believes its survival can only be ensured by weapons and bombs. In Tel Aviv in 2004 I had the opportunity to speak to some Members of Parliament and Peace activists all of whom argued that the wall and the military build-up was necessary to protect the nation and the people. In other words, I asked, you believe that you can create a snake pit -- with many deadly snakes in it -- and expect to live in the pit secure and alive? What do you mean? they countered. Well, with your superior weapons and armaments and your attitude towards your neighbors would it not be right to say that you are creating a snake pit? How can anyone live peacefully in such an atmosphere? Would it not be better to befriend those who hate you? Can you not reach out and share your technological advancement with your neighbors and build a relationship?