All Comments (61)

IN REPLY TO
PAGANPLACE:
“CONSUMERISM” “
“I humbly submit that the 'materialism' of American Christians constitutes a ritual indulgence of excess with concomitant self-flagellation, which miserable state of affairs they look for 'outsiders' to blame for, having failed to reconcile their twin consumerist demands with their own assertions of moral superiority over, say, us 'tree-hugging, dirt-worshipping hippie Pagans' or 'cow-worshipping, diaper-wearing Hindooes.”'

ANS:
Excessive consumerism is gorging one’s self on the amenities and vanities of the world for their own pleasure. Buying gifts for others is a way of saying thank you for your friendship. It is another way of saying, “I remember you”; “I know you exist,” and “I am thankful for it and your friendship.”

No one enjoys contesting mass congested traffic jams, trudging through overfilled stores searching for that certain special gift to please that special friend, standing in long tiring lines to check out, and spending their money that they worked hard for to please someone. They sacrifice a piece of themselves for others; it’s called love. Notwithstanding, Americans, especially at Christmas are the most generous people in the world.

Consumerism is for the edacious egotist, the omnivorous piggish narcissist, and the carnivorous self-loved who gives nothing to others but to himself.

On that first Christmas day, Mary brought God’s Son into the world and gave Him to all mankind. Eternal light was brought into a world of darkness to light the hearts of all. The Lover came to the beloved; the beloved became the lover. The aura of Christmas is a story of the Perfect Lover infinitely giving Himself to all man, and man responds in mutual reciprocity.

“Love came down at Christmas, Love all lovely, love divine. Love was born at Christmas; Stars and angels gave the sign—Georgina Rossetti”

Christmas is a celebration of a soul’s ineffable dream for the perfect love coming true, for the desire of God is written in every human heart.

“Christmas is not a time nor a season, but a state of mind, to cherish peace and goodwill, to be plenteous in mercy, is to have the real spirit of Christmas—Calvin Coolidge."

Do not seek that your Christmas and New Year be only happy and merry. Ask that they also be Holy, then happiness and joy will ensue. Then the Mad Lover will come to consume you, His beloved. Because of His merciful compassion, his intimate infinite love, He has uniquely created you from His unfathomable altruism.

So, come and rejoice at this Christmas feast and be filled with the joys and gifts of the Spirit! Then, you shall receive the Author of Life from His beloved Mother, and you shall eternally be enriched with the blessings of Christmas.

Then the Christmas Spirit will come to wrap you in His arms with His aura of eternal love, touch the deep recesses of your heart with immeasurable joy and happiness, and abide with you forever.

“Then the greater your distress, the more He will comfort you! The more you are scorned, the more He will love you! The more you are insulted, the more He will exalt you! The more you are forgotten, the more He will remember you! If abandoned, He will draw you closer to Himself”—Cardinal John Henry Newman.

"In the end, it was always said of Scrooge that he knew how to keep Christmas well, if any man alive possessed the knowledge. May that be truly said of us all—Charles Dickens."

It’s Christmas and the Atheists and Agnostics didn't show up for the greatest birthday in the world. They stood out in the cold and darkness, while the newborn was giving out gifts that neither ear had ever heard, eye had never seen; the wonder of a light for all eternity. There’s still time to come to the party in this Eight-Day Octave of Christmas.

So don’t be foolish; enjoy the wisdom of the Infant, his precious gift of eternal life, the light of reason, and the light of eternal joy.

All one needs do is to ask for it., open the door of your heart, and the Infant, the Creator of the world, will give you the happiness and joy that He promised is waiting for you. So have a joyful and happy Christmas. So on all Christmases celebrate your love for others, smile, give your face a holiday, and celebrate Christmas in all its glory.

Hi Gaby!

Just popped in to thank you for your New Year greetings.

Best wishes
Soja

I tried to post a long comment but didn’t succeed. Perhaps there are rules about length that weren’t posted.

It’s strange how different the references to pagans and Wiccans differ from Starhawks comments. I am particularly amazed that she kept referring to Christ rather than Jesus, like most who refer to Jesus’s social message do.

One thing that particularly haunts me is that Jesus came to the defense of a hated Roman tax collector. No one who saw Jesus, wrote anything down, so we are doing a lot of guessing as well as believing. But there is no way anyone would think to make up the incident with the tax collector, which I will harp on later on in this posting. He also had to have stopped an execution by urging the innocent to throw the first stone, since again no reason for anyone to make up or exaggerate such an incident.

The people around him believed he had some kind of source of health care and he was trying to explain how others could get it. This isn’t a historic fact simply because science declares it to be impossible. Starting around 50 years ago we expect sunlight by flipping a switch, and more recently people to fly though the air on a TV screen. Only the animals during the last tsunamis panicked when the ocean disappeared. So all the moderators on this websight forgot to note that we no longer awe at Biblical miracles. Anyway, something about Jesus or Christ lingers, even Muslims believe they are only improving upon Jesus’s message.

The 60's was a time of reform. One 60'’s assertion that lingered that lingered was that Christmas was too commercial, leading to home drawn Christmas cards and hand-crafted presents. I wrote a Jingle to Jingle Bells. Buy buy buy, all the way,” “Oh what buy . . .” A think-tank changed the complaint to taking Christ out of Christmas, which is far easier to make money off of then advocating refusing to buy.

Today, some believe Mike Hukabee, has gone too far in putting Christ back in Christmas, which is why this Washington Post web sight was put up. But I think he is actually, in a way, going back to the complaint against forced consumption during the Christmas season.

An event around me if that President Bush is being recast as the Devil Incarnate. This happened to quite a few other people including of course Adolf Hitler, who of course wasn’t all evil either. I am haunted by, “Why would Jesus befriend a hated tax collector.”

To me there is something very weird is occurring in Demon-fyng Bush. Bush’s good points such as his working well with his Texas Mexican neighbors is being condemned by most who claim to be defending Bush. So no one is defending the real George Bush. Not only does Bush want to be for immigration and both his friends and enemies won’t let him, but he also, right after 9/11 urged people not to deface Muslim businesses, humbly visited a mosque, sent an interfaith New Years greeting card his right-wing friends found offense, and worked to get Muslims involved in his faith-based efforts.

In the summer of 2004 there was a cease-fire in Fullujah ( the locals cheered) and there was Republican talk of ending the war before the upcoming Presidential election. But a John Kerry campaign ad campaigned of terrorists hiding in Fullujah, and Bush demanded Al Sadr’s arrest. (If only Sunni’s and Shiites could know how much they now hate each other, the Sunni’s might had outed al Sadr like they later outed the blood thirsty al Qaeda leader Zarqawia.

Bush humble apologized for Abu Ghraib abuse in front of the King of Jordan. A general claimed he looked small and the King looked tall, and joined the Kerry campaign to the cheers of antiwar activists. A little praise and Guantanamo prison might be closed by now.

Hitler wanted to be an ogre or a hero depending on your politics. But the world has transformed Bush into an ogre, and there seems to be nothing he can do about it. He is all but helpless in the White House as the rest of the world forces him into the role they expect out of him.

Now the chief most public supporter of Impeachment has become Representative Robert Wexler, who has collected over 100, 000 signatures on his Impeachment petition. He earlier tried to force the President to be tougher on Iran than the President already is, and sponsored the Congressional resolution urging Congress to praise Israel’s attack on Syria Now he’s sponsoring Impeach Cheney resolutions for policies he helped format. This would be fine, if he was also apologizing for being a super hawk, www.forward.com/articles/11715/ www.njdc.org/newsdigest/detail.php?id=379/
www.thiscantbehappening.net/?q=node/86#comment-158
http://tooconservative.com/?p=1737#comment-98611 or maybe (comment-98610)

George Bush does bad things and he does good. A reason I am interested in Arun Gandhi.
Is the Bush administration can’t take credit for its input with stopping war between India and Pakistan in 2002 is because India takes offence.

The head of Pakistan is a cruel man but in 2002 he for whatever reason made a bold move toward peace by pulling troops back away from the border. Arun Gandhi, I hope you are in enough engrossed in your grandfather’s vision, to realize the importance of praising bad people when they do something good. I really believe at this point it will help the human species survive without a lot of deformities

RichardKanePA@aol.com
http:RamblingsFromTheHornetsNest.Blogspot.com

EEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHHHHHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

< ?: +) / Ya Ya!

Hello Soja:

Thank you and "Happy New Year". May you be healthy, happy and prosperous in 2008 and beyond.

"PS: Writing to a fellow blogger on the discussion board of an international newspaper is by far the best way to keep secrets strictly between two people. ;)"

Do you really think so???? <;o)

Att: R O Y, et al;

Happy Every Day and Better-day's to ALL Good-HUMATE Kind's!!

Salute, Cheers, La-Chaim, Sloncha, To Health... Ya!

See you next year on Mt. Transfinity & Mt. Cumorah and Mt. Washington Heights, all in sweet sweet NEW YORK State,

Yes!, The Cradle of Gridarian Democracy and of Transfinite Civilization is come! And,

the center of "T*R*A*N*S*F*I*N*I*T*Y", via the "Holy Cosmic feelers Faith" Philosophy & Prophecy's that is com true!!

Good bye All Pre-Apocalyptic foreign "IMPORTED RELIGIONS" [Not Made and Born & brewedin sweet sweet U.S. of A.] Ya Ya!

We Eclati-On(s) will shut-off the 'Supply side & Demand side' slowly but surely! This is O.U.R. genuine Prophecy!

Please see "onfaith" or "onreligion" WAPO blog exclusively , seq passim since Spring Equinox of 2007, herein and thereof!

May Xtra Photon's shine on AMERICA & FRIENDS!

Unfortunately, Christianity in America, especially right-wing political Christianity the likes of Huckabee, Dobson, Robertson, Haggard, Vitter and Craig has become a hypocritical, hateful, exclusive neochristianity of which Christ would not be proud.

Dear Gaby

Thank you for your kind words.

Yes, I do happen to be an Indian (with dual Indian-Australian citizenship) who lives in Sydney, Australia.

I speak English with an Indian accent, but I happen to speak German with a native accent ("Fraenggish!")

I wish you a wonderful New Year 2008!

Best wishes
Soja

PS: Writing to a fellow blogger on the discussion board of an international newspaper is by far the best way to keep secrets strictly between two people. ;)

------------

Hi Ja Joz or Jacob!

Thank you for your kind greetings. A Happy New Year 2008 to you too! As you know here in Australia we get to greet the New Year well ahead of you. The Sydney fireworks is a great event. A million people are expected to be in the city tonight. I saw the fireworks seven years ago from real close up. Now I make do with watching it on the TV like millions of other Australians and Sydneysiders.

I'm glad Gaby is going to postpone wringing your neck.

Have a wonderful year. Don't worry about being crazy, we all have our own version of "crazies." Just remember not to really hurt anyone physically or emotionally.

Best wishes
Soja

I loved to watch Xena as well, and a number of other shows depicting vampires, witches, and such. Plus I am a Star trek Fan! How about that????

Jacob, I'll accept the apology for now. One thing I want you to know. I can look in the mirror amd like what I see. Not pysically, but in my eyes. Can you????

Well, Soja, I hadn't suspected that out of all people an Indian(?) living in Australia would speak German. You tranlated correctly, but I had hoped it would stay between Jacob and me.

In any case, thanks! You are a very nice person and I respect you a lot.

Oooops:

Good Morning.

Thank You for Translation.

I Love You All Cyber friends and Cyber Family.

Interpreted:

Guten Morgen. Danke für Übersetzung.

Ich liebe Dich alle Cyber Freunde und Cyber Familie.

< ?: +)

[ ?: +)

{ ?: + )

. ?: +)

"HAPPY EVERY DAY!

Shookria! Ya Ya.

Nomostae !

S O J A J O H N , Australia, etal;

Ah, nothing like a "Foster Beer" for Breakfast!

Guess early birds no just get the worms, but drunk too! hA hA hA.

Guten Morgen. Danke für Übersetzung.

Ich liebe Dich alle Cyber Freunde und Cyber Familie.

< ?: +)

[ ?: +)

{ ?: + )

. ?: +)

"HAPPY EVERY DAY!

Shookria! Ya Ya.

Att: Warm Heart, et al;

Hello first "Cyber Friend" and never last.

This morning, around 1:30 I had pain that disturbed sleep. Now I know and now I see.

Please beautifull, You are chosen and this is all prophecy.

This is a mistake!

72 hours ends PM tomorrow not today.

Please excuse us.

You are a beautifull true ECLATi-On.

And a WARM HEART you are.

If you want, You can kill me later not now. Yes Yes.

Please excuse me. Ya Ya!

Dear Mr Gandhi

I wish you a Happy New Year 2008!

I do happen to believe that every religion is a unique revelation. It is true that no government resolution is going to make any difference to the faith of an ordinary man on the street. But it is a great gesture to acknowledge the role of religions all the same. I understand Diwali and Eid were acknowledged by the US Congress as well.

There are two interesting books you might find interesting to read, written by my guru, Dom Bede Griffiths:

'River of Compassion, Christian commentary on the Bhagavad Gita' and 'Cosmic Revelation.'

Soja John Thaikattil
Sydney, Australia

Gaby to JJ:

"Jacob, Du stinkst mir jetzt. Ich habe nie Dein Vertrauen misbraucht. Wie kommst Du dazu mich schlecht zu machen, Du Schlange!!!"

Translated by SJT: Jacob, you stink now. I have never misused your trust. How dare you slander me, you snake!!!

Gaby: "Du kannst heil froh sein das ich nicht in New York lebe sonst wuerde ich Dir den Hals umdrehen. Ich weiss nicht was mit Dir los ist, aber Du musst jetzt doch mal zum Psychater."

Translated by SJT: Be glad that I do not live in New York or I would wring your neck. I don't know what is wrong with you, but you must go to a psychiatrist now.

Gaby: "Ich habe Dir vertraut, und Du hast mich ausgenutzt. Ich habe mehr Eclat in meinem kleinen Finger als Du oder Harry in Euren ganzen Koerper haben."

Translated by SJT: I trusted you, but you exploited my trust. I have more Eclat in my little finger than you or Harry have in your whole body.

Gaby: "So jetzt kannst Du Dir das uebersetzen, ob ins Juedische oder Amerikanisch ist mir egal. Du bist so fies geworden das ich Dich nicht mehr kenne."

Translated by SJT: Now you can translate this whether into Jiddish or American, I don't care. You have become so mean that I don't recognise you anymore.

Gaby: "Ach, uebrigens, wenn die 72 Stunden vergangen sind werde ich mal sehen wie weit Due es gebracht hast die Bin Laden Familie auszuloeschen."

Translated by SJT: And, by the way, when the 72 hours are up I would like to see how far you have managed to destroy the family of Bin Laden.

Gaby: "So, jetzt bist Du dran...."

Translated by SJT: So, now your turn...

Jacob, Du stinkst mir jetzt. Ich habe nie Dein Vertrauen misbraucht. Wie kommst Du dazu mich schlecht zu machen, Du Schlange!!!

Du kannst heil froh sein das ich nicht in New York lebe sonst wuerde ich Dir den Hals umdrehen. Ich weiss nicht was mit Dir los ist, aber Du musst jetzt doch mal zum Psychater.

Ich habe Dir vertraut, und Du hast mich ausgenutzt. Ich habe mehr Eclat in meinem kleinen Finger als Du oder Harry in Euren ganzen Koerper haben.

So jetzt kannst Du Dir das uebersetzen, ob ins Juedische oder Amerikanisch ist mir egal. Du bist so fies geworden das ich Dich nicht mehr kenne.

Ach, uebrigens, wenn die 72 Stunden vergangen sind werde ich mal sehen wie weit Due es gebracht hast die Bin Laden Familie auszuloeschen.

So, jetzt bist Du dran....

Happy everyday!!!!

Jacob, Du stinkst mir jetzt. Ich habe nie Dein Vertrauen misbraucht. Wie kommst Du dazu mich schlecht zu machen, Du Schlange!!!

Du kannst heil froh sein das ich nicht in New York lebe sonst wuerde ich Dir den Hals umdrehen. Ich weiss nicht was mit Dir los ist, aber Du musst jetzt doch mal zum Psychater.

Ich habe Dir vertraut, und Du hast mich ausgenutzt. Ich habe mehr Eclat in meinem kleinen Finger als Du oder Harry in Euren ganzen Koerper haben.

So jetzt kannst Du Dir das uebersetzen, ob ins Juedische oder Amerikanisch ist mir egal. Du bist so fies geworden das ich Dich nicht mehr kenne.

Ach, uebrigens, wenn die 72 Stunden vergangen sind werde ich mal sehen wie weit Due es gebracht hast die Bin Laden Familie auszuloeschen.

So, jetzt bist Du dran....

Happy everyday!!!!

ATTN: JJJJJJJJJJJJJ

i HAVE never abused YOUR CONfidence.....DO NOT ever THINK i DID......

HOWEVER,,,i WILL NOT allow YOU to malign VERY NICE people....

GET IT????????

YOU are ECLATi-OOOFFFF....

I have Eclat in my heart, you have hate and darkness.

SO, HARK, who HAS HATE and DARKNESS will SURELY die.....GO to the BLACK HOLE.

Now do you get it?????

Do not think for one Moment that I am afraid of you....I AM NOT!!!

SPEW your HATE, but not with me, Jacob!

ATTN: JJJJJJJJJJJJJ

i HAVE never abused YOUR CONfidence.....DO NOT ever THINK i DID......

HOWEVER,,,i WILL NOT allow YOU to malign VERY NICE people....

GET IT????????

YOU are ECLATi-OOOFFFF....

I have Eclat in my heart, you have hate and darkness.

SO, HARK, who HAS HATE and DARKNESS will SURELY die.....GO to the BLACK HOLE.

Now do you get it?????

Do not think for one Moment that I am afraid of you....I AM NOT!!!

SPEW your HATE, but not with me, Jacob!

Oooops, Correction (of NO-SIN) ;

'... P.S. ECLATi-ON(s) [Made-In-AMERICA, as prophecied] Have an "EIGHT DAY WEEK" Calandate System & the Winter & Summer Soltices do not mean Squat!.."

We gage O.U.R. Immortal "Miracle Appearances" [never is Birth anykind or unkind Sin nor Curseth] via the holy Cosmic "MAGMA-PERCOLATION" phenomonon & Phenomona, as mentioned exlusively here on WAPO "onfaith" , so many TIME(s), to ECLAT's "EQONOX's", not pre-apocalyptic Soltices or Yules sytems!

Therefore; Please study & pay great attention to ye EQUONOX's, Spring & Fall, respectfully!

P.S. : We Eclati-On(s) also have Civil Laws , Public & Private! And yes, an Eclati-ON Annual Circa Celibrations too! And the

UNION between an Eclati-On "MAVORITE" [Gentleman] and that of a Eclati-On "SPORADE" [Lady's] is Eternally & Forever (inludes when Momma Poppa Earth also Dies in 7/8 billion yars from now) Together with Source-One! No Pagan, No Wiccan, no Shaman et al, can ever defy nor deny IT!

REMEMBER: The Holy No Man LORD/G-D/Eponymous-ECLATi is neither a 'HE" nor a "SHE" so G-d is an 'IT'! A Zero-Jealous & thus Fearless CREATOR of the FIAT-LUX" contrary to All Pre-Apocalyptic 'INFIXUS-BOOKS', written by man, not Eclati, via their 'self-Serving' Folk-lore(s) & their man made EPOCHS, zero ECLAT + "i" Made! Ya!

P.S. "i" need to go & help some 'Needy-people' now. So Hugg's nkiss's to all the MAVORITES & SPORADES in town! eeeeeee haaaaaaa! Yaaaaaa Yaaaa!

Anon,

Agreed with your analysis about Crowley. That's what I've found from much of my own research. He didn't really seem to care about what he did unless there was something in it for him. These are the types of people who are in it for the wrong reasons and ultimately either destroy themselves or leave it. One thing I've noticed is that those people who only seek power and domination will be scared to pieces by the real thing when it shows up.

I've seen it happen. Not from me, mind you (I will be the first to say I've got SO much to learn) but I've had the good fortune to learn from someone who is a genuine mystic, who learned on their own with no books- and who also is a warm, dear friend- and see the reactions that are inspired in other people.

Witches, Wiccans, etc. etc. - good overview. You know your stuff, as Gaby said.

However, as talented as Crowley was, he was also an egomaniacal morphine addict with many enemies in the Golden Dawn and elsewhere. For the audience...the mystical Kaballah along with explanatory applications are widely referenced in any number of books on Magick that emerged from the Order of the Golden Dawn.

His enmity toward and rampant jeaolousy of W. B. Yeats for being both a bonified mystic as well as being considered the greatest poet of the age was
legendary. In Crowley's mind he had been completely overlooked as the poetic genius that he surely was. It's amazing the man lived well into his 70's what with all of his bad habits!

And lastly, George Gurdjeiff scared the living hell out of him. Their encounter left him quite shaken according to reports - now that was a guy with real power, similar personality traits notwithstanding. In Gurdjeiff's presence, the great Frank Lloyd Wright was said to be child-like and acquiescent. Not at all in character!

Crowley was a good writer - I've got a few on the bookshelf. Real magician?? A brujo maybe, but never a true shaman or curandero...black magic and pure power were more likely his stock in trade.

I hope and trust that the broad selection of non-pagan viewers on this blog know that Paganism in it's many variations is far more than mere nature worship and an assortment of pantheistic beliefs.

The ancient Druids and the Celts sought real knowledge, and their beliefs and practices incorporated methods for discovering knowledge that facilitated the manipulation of a pliable universe - hopefully for good, but sometimes for purely self-centered outcomes. This is true of all shamanic practice even today - practitioners are known by many names e.g. shamans, witch doctors, witches, magicians, priests, etc. etc.

Here's Crowley - 'love under will'

'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law'

But to what end?? That's the question.

Don't want to see your shadow, do you?

What are you so afraid of?

To the poster of Dec. 29, 2007, probably JJ:

Those who truly walk the path of a Wiccan understand that while Wicca as a religion owes much to Gardner there are parts of Paganism, not necessarily Wiccan, that do go back thousands of years. We are aware that our history is not as direct a line as some would think, but instead more of pieces that have been found over many centuries. The earliest Venus dolls have been unearthed about 30,000 years old which leads to the idea that perhaps not in its current form, but veneration of the divine feminine has been alive in some form at least that far back.

Much has been lost to time due to the fact that history is always written by the victors in an attempt to discredit others who are not like them- plus the fact that those who did live the old ways taught everything by oral traditions and did not write it down. It was believed that the teachings had more life and lost something once recorded.

Depending on the path that one is on will depend on how closely they try to find out and learn from the historical records, such as they are. Others may take a more nuanced view.

Some of those teachings still live on in current religious philosophy and practices even in monotheistic cultures these days. And it's not just limited to Christmas trees, mistletoe or any such thing. One thing witches are really good at is camouflage. Our teachings and survival have depended on it- so when others tried to take away the teachings and found they couldn't, they were coopted. What constitutes Paganism for the serious practitioner these days is influenced by everything from the Kabbalah to the old Bardic Schools to Eastern practices and everything in between. It's too simplistic to say that Paganism or Wicca came from Gardner or any one source.

Those who truly walk the path understand that it is not impossible to live by the Rede, but to understand that every action we take has consequences in ways that we may not be aware of until much later. This makes our choices difficult and it is imperative to understand the darkest sides of ourselves so that we can grow tell the difference when we are acting in a way to deliberately cause others to suffer. It's about honoring those plants that we take from and animals we take from in order to ensure our survival, and only taking what is needed. To listen and respect the land so that we may continue to be a part of it.

Read the entire Rede. There's much more to it than 'an it harm none, do as you wilt'. Which by the way, also includes oneself. You hurt yourself by your words of 'devil worship' more than you hurt another. We understand the power of what we say and do and work to be better people.. and not to be afraid to look at others who have influenced modern practices and point out both sides of the issues. To look at the bad stuff in the face and call it was it is. Which is lacking in your own works.

Do we screw up? of course. We're human, and feel just as much as anyone else. Doesn't make us bad, just lets us know that there are things we need to learn and that those lessons will amplify for us until we learn what we must.

It's ok if others don't understand or don't agree. We don't want everyone to be Pagan if it is not what they feel. It's ok to have diversity. All paths lead to center. It is NOT ok to promote or encourage someone's suffering because they think differently than you.

again, Please stop making generalizations about things you know nothing about, and hating others you do not agree with. There are a lot more similarities than there are differences between people, no matter what they say.

Fear can be overcome by attempts to understand people different from you, even if agreement isn't possible.

Blessed be.

Attention World;

Attention ALL Federal, State & Local Authorities & their Official in Sweet Sweet AMERICiCA:

The Riddles of the SATAN/Devil/Jinn/Lucifer/DarkSide Exposed for all to see!

May Xtra Photons Shine on a SECULAR AMERICA!

Well, I've finally got around to writing this expo on the heart of this beast that was born in the first quarter of the foul year of our lord, 2002.

Let it Begin.

So, why not start at the beginning. Why? Why did I create this place? Well, after discovering the miraculous world of IRC, I soon discovered a treasure hold of religious chats, and a whole New World of the Internet, based on IRC and message boards and news groups. A part of the Internet that thrives on real people in real time. Being a student of the occult, I soon found occult/pagan/alternative chats. Many of these were Wiccan, or populated by Wiccans, or were aimed mostly at Wiccans. Wicca is probably the largest sect in the Neo-Pagan movement, and as such it receives the most amount of criticism, both by its subscribers, and non-subscribers.

It being the largest means that there are, by and large, more Wiccans on the net than any other person in the neopagan scene. This is partly what lead to the creation of this. No, that's not right, the fact that there are more of them was not what made me decide to make this place, it was their knowledge of Wicca, their attitude, and their intolerance. I mean not here to discriminate against Wiccans alone, it's just there is an overwhelming amount of people like that, that are Wiccan. I'm sure this attitude was not what Oberon Zell had in mind back in the 60's. I was on a site a couple of hours ago, and it coined a term that I do recognise and can associate with. The term was NAFTI - New Age Fluffy Tolerant Intolerance1.

This attitude I think has come from a number of sources. Firstly, I think that most Wiccans are exactly what they hate in the Christians. In fact, I think a lot of non-Wiccan neopagans are like this. And I am sure you know what I mean, we all know what we hate about Christians (and anybody else), and this prevails throughout neopaganism also.

Also, many Wiccans do not know the basics of their religion. The most obvious of these discrepancies is the actual history of the religion. People like to have a heritage, they like to think that what they believe has its roots deeply set in the annals of time and tradition. This, for Wicca, is partly true, partly not. Wicca is not old; it is thanks to authors such as Margaret Murray2 that the idea that witchcraft or Wicca (which are not mutually exclusive, but are not the same) was in existence during the witchcraft trials of the Inquisition. This book and other works like it have since been proven to be false, as the 'continuity' in confessions of the accused was because the confessions were written and set up by the inquisition. Many were illiterate anyway so couldn't read, and they would just sign their name.

Another thing is that people do not give credit where credit is due, also lies expounded by bigots and frauds and because of prejudices caused a lot of confusion and animosity. Many think that Crowley stole works from Gardner. The question is why would he do that? He was an adept of the Golden Dawn, and almost re-invented the OTO. Gardner was a member of Crowley's OTO. In actual fact it was Gardner who stole works from Aleister Crowley. An interesting article can be found in White Dragon2. He may not have stole the pieces he used, they may have been granted to him by AC, but Gardner did not reveal the pieces (at times lifted verbatim) of Crowley's works until after Crowley's demise…

Even IF Wicca does predate Gardner, which I personally doubt, all of the extant material comes from the hand and knowledge of one Gerald Brosseau Gardner. Another reason for the obscurity and mystique around the origins of Wicca is Doreen Valiente, a co-founder of Wicca. Gerald wrote the original manuscripts, and presented them to Doreen. She liked what she saw, she did also, however, have a great prejudice towards Crowley, for reasons of her own. She helped Gerald edit and refine the manuscripts into what was to become the Wicca that is now known. Wicca has a great influence of Thelema in it; it was primarily a Thelemic system. Doreen however, with her bias against Crowley, tried to eliminate as much of Crowley's influence as possible, and thus the Thelemic aspects. She did succeed in omitting much of original Thelemic material. She once said that, beautiful as Crowley's poetry and work is, she still did not want anything to do with it. Eventually Gardner wouldn't have any more Thelemic material taken out, as much of it is fundamental to the system. They met a compromise, and both were satisfied.

This information however seems to have been lost between then and now. Why or how is still a mystery, but it is evidently due to bias and prejudice towards Crowley and Thelema. Many of today's Wiccans may have never heard of Crowley, or when they have they fear or loath him and his works, (usually this opinion is held because of things they have read by other authors about Crowley, many people who dislike Crowley have never read a single piece of his works.) labeling him as a devil worshipper or black magician. Also many Wiccans have never heard of Gerald Gardner or even Doreen Valiente, though the latter is more well known, I mean, who wants to know that The Goddess worshipping religion was created by a man? These are just the basics of the History of the religion, not even the religion itself.

Another thing is the basic Wiccan tenet of

"An harm ye none, do what thou wilt"

This has been misinterpreted for far to long. It is impossible to live by this dictum literally. There IS a dark side to Wicca, there is light and there is dark. These are two fundamental aspects of any and all religions. The simple act of breathing kills millions of germs, but we must do this to survive. We eat meat, we kill animals, we kill each other and have done since the dawning of time itself. Plants emit ultra-violet light when they are submitted to what we would consider pain. We are hurting or killing something every second we live, and must continue to do so in order to survive. When that was written, I very much doubt this was ever intended to be taken quite so literally. Also, to harm and to hurt are different. This is food for thought.

Paramahmpsa

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notes:

1 - NAFTI - see http://pub131.ezboard.com/famagickaljourneyfrm55.showMessage?topicID=44.topic

2 - The Witch Cult of Western Europe, Margaret Murray

3 - http://www.whitedragon.org.uk issue No 31 Lughnasa 2001 - The Great Wicca Hoax; Adrian Bott

pseudo-anonymous - is that you JJ?? Here you are posing as a normal poster in order to blast Pagans and gays, and yet any fool can see it's the same old JJ with the same old paranoid mean streak.

You've really stooped to new lows, using George Bush quotes for support. That alone will get you discredited anywhere in the land these days. On the other hand, you do have an affinity with Mr. Bush....very, very delusional.

Sorry JJ, no alter-ego will suffice to conceal your compulsive self. The boy can't help it!

Religious mania is not very attractive JJ.

Anon, or JJ, as we know it's you-

Since when are Pagans not welcome? The funny thing is NOT every Pagan needs tools. I love how you seem to think that that's all that is needed. The truth is, if you are skilled enough you don't need tools.

Please learn something about what a Pagan is- you might be surprised that what you call 'eclation' is actually remarkably similar in some ways.. minus your fearmongering and homophobia.

What exactly are you afraid of?

We don't need the Boy Scouts. There are Spiral Scouts that accomplish the same ends that admit ANYONE.

What makes you think I or anyone else talk to the 'dead'? You've got some funny ideas about things. Besides, I don't do Voudoun. Got nothing to do with me.

You've proven nothing other than showing your own fear of what you don't understand. And that is sad.

Blessed be.

In my own words
I am a PhD Fellow at Michigan State University. Having completed a M.A. in Religious Studies at Arizona State U., I am pursuing a doctorate in American Studies at Mich. State. I specialize in religion in American cultures, especially the study of Contemporary American Paganism, and its many facets. More generally, I have many research and teaching interests in the Humanities and Religion. I am a Pagan, Polytheist, Progressive, and Religious Pluralist without apology, and I have little patience for those who think they can ignore, dominate, abandon, marginalize, or discard the World and Those-In-It as part of their religious or scholarly perspective. That's a recipe for violence and immorality in a post-9/11 world. And that's why my reviews sometimes hit sore nerves with some people. Always remember, you ignore the Other at your own Peril.

"Pagans/Wiccans need 'Swords' pr "Knives" & "Hammers"

Some do, some don't. If you know what you're doing, the tools are unnecessary.

Besides, what does this have to do with anything on this thread?

Pagans/Wiccans need 'Swords' pr "Knives" & "Hammers" and....

http://www.boston.com/news/odd/articles/2007/12/21/inmate_says_he_needs_thors_hammer_drum/

http://altreligion.about.com/b/2007/06/05/inmate-may-sue-for-thors-hammer.htm

Anon,

I am well aware about the origins of Eclat. I have tried to research Harry Theriault, but very little can be found on the internet, other than his lawsuits in regards to the religion and the Marist College website. I seems Theriault was allowed an opinion page or such.

In any cse, I just want people to know not to underestimate JJ.

I'll be signing off for now.

Have a good weekend and a Happy New Year celebration in case I don't see you on Monday.

Anon,

I am well aware about the origins of Eclat. I have tried to research Harry Theriault, but very little can be found on the internet, other than his lawsuits in regards to the religion and the Marist College website. I seems Theriault was allowed an opinion page or such.

In any cse, I just want people to know not to underestimate JJ.

I'll be signing off for now.

Have a good weekend and a Happy New Year celebration in case I don't see you on Monday.

I thought of the following in response to the question: "How do we make non-Christians realize that this is the day of Love and Peace and not about being a Christian?"

I agree with Mr. Gandhi that Christmas should not be about being Christian... because it isn't really Christian in origin. One can worship God the Father and Christ Jesus without ever celebrating Christmas. In fact, I just read a Washington Post article about this...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/22/AR2007122201747.html?sub=new

The church that I attend does not celebrate Christmas for several reasons. The number one reason, I would say, is that the celebration of Christmas as a holiday is not in the Bible.

For more info, I suggest you visit:
http://www.ucg.org/litlibrary/christmas.htm

In peace and love,
Daniel Harper

daniel_harper1@yahoo.com

Gaby -

Yes, he's has a grounding in religion of sorts, but you have to look deeper into it's origins.

This ECLAT religion was created by two federal prisoners (1974) originally incarcerated in Atlanta - and later moved to Marion, IL as is the case with federal prisoners (they are moved around). Please note: At that time the Marion facility was a maximum security facility that housed only the most difficult and dangerous prisoners in the federal system. As of one year ago, Marion has been re-classified as a medium security facility with a completely different prisoner population.

ECLAT has a vague foundation in Christianity because it appears that one founder had an association with the Catholic Marist Order of Brothers but ultimately it despises all formalized religions, with a particular hatred of Islam - and homosexuals (eg. prison mentality).

Originally the sacraments were to be steak, wine, and marajuana, but prison officials frowned on these demands. It has since spread to the state penitentary in Iowa and despite considerable legislative effort, still seems to thrive 'behind bars' - it has been associated with the White Supremecy movement and particularly attacks on Muslim places of worship (outside the prison environment).

We see in earlier postings that JJ has allied it with both LDS and Scientology as 'home-grown' all American religions - all 'imported' religions are invalid. Thus we have the incessant Mitt Romney
boosting - what's next? Tom Cruise for VP??

In the end, it's not about religion though...it's about JJ's total devotion to the Relgion of
Self-Centeredness and utter lack of regard for any consideration of other posters. What I see is a personality (disorder) cult, rather than a legitimate religion - and further highlighted by JJ's obsessive/compulsive one-way posts.

Yes, there is some background knowledge of religion - nobody ever said these guys weren't smart. The end result is that JJ seems to have taken control of these threads of late, and that may be the point after all.

JJ - try to stay out of trouble.

Christopher and Anon,

Make no mistake, JJ is far from a fool. Yes, he writes in code, but he does know what he is taking about. Unfortunately, his views are rather unorthodox and anti-establishment, plus he can get very crude when he is in attack mode.

Christopher Chase -

You make a good point. This gentleman violates all the precepts of fair play and appropriate behavior when he dominates/floods these threads with utter nonsense. No question this blog needs closer monitoring.

Of course if you know the background and origins from whence this foolishness originates, you'll find a history of criminal behavior and the rampant narcissism that typically accompanies that lifestyle. The Church of the New Song remains extant as a prison religion today, although it's founder has been out since 1994.

Then there's the question of mental stability or lack thereof - all in all, very irritating to be relentlessly blog-whipped by this fool on a daily basis.

NO MORE MR. & MRS. NICE GUY!

You killed "ALLAH" and now Allah is no-more "AKBAR" (Not Great!)!

We, not American's , but ECLATi-ON(s), of Space-Ship Earth, Will annhilliate your KABBA & your AL AQSA mosque in JERUSALEM !

Pleas, you have 72 Hours from this post , or else!!!!

Islam will be NO MORE! Good bye KABBA! Good bye AL AQSA!

Remember, surrender Mr. Osama Bin Laden , et al, or else!

The Destruction of the Kabba, like World trade Center's will be the fault of the Bin Ladin FAMILY!

We will Execute All your 73 Children & ALL of Mr. Osama's Family! et al!

WE win you loose! Ya Ya!

G-D Bless E*C*L*A*Ti-ON's!

'Chara' Islam & 'Gondoo' Islam! [Shiiiiit] Ya Ya!

O.U.R. PEOPLE are in position!

Good bye KABBA, good bye Al AQSA DOME!

This is not a game not a Test! You weill see!

Mr. Osama Bin Ladin et al, Last Time, Please

"Surrender" (DEAD or ALIVE), surrender in less than seventy two hours!!!!! Ya Ya!

P.S.: Pakisatan is "The VANGUARD of ISLAM" yet ECLATi-ON(s) are the VANGUARDS of SPACE-SHIP PLANET EARTH!

This is O.U.R. Prophecy not your's Islam!

Quoting Anonymous:

"We must all admit that JJ has an apparently formidable knowledge of various religions"

I have yet to see a single particle of evidence that supports that claim. All he does is threadjack every time he posts in some cryptic code, which is against the rules for this form anyway.

BEHOLD!

Att: SAUDi ARABIA at MECCA via KABBA!

Hear ye Hear Ye, The KABBA will be destroyed in 72 Hours, unless Al Quada Surrenders! no Compromise!

Surren Mre. Bin Laden Et al, Dead or alive!!!!!!

We, not American's , but ECLATi-ON(s) Will annhilliate your KABBA & your AL AQSA mosque in JERUSALEM !

Pleas, you have 72 Hours from this post , or else!!!!

Islam will be NO MORE! Good bye KABBA! Good bye AL AQSA!

Remember, surrender Mr. Osama Bin Laden , et al, or else!

Ya Ya!

I think peace is an equilibrium of tensions. So, even at best, there will always be tensions; people will get on each others nerves in close quarters, such as Christmas dinner.

I agree with Paganplace about Christmas. First of all, the whole Christmas thing is a vast and powerfully entrenched socio-ecomomic phenomenon, that irrisistably takes over in the month of December. It is too simplistic to call it "crass materialism;" it is alot more than that.

And people have a hard time dealing with plenty. People have a hard time dealing with all this stuff, which is the mark of current age. People think of the twenty-first century as being sleek and modern and well-appointed with all kinds of wonderful things. But really, it is more like the victorian Age when well-to-do people had every square inch of their homes filled up with stuff, so that their lives were cluttered, ham-strung, and strangled with stuff, stuff, too much stuff.

That is how many people are today. Their homes are bulging with stuff, but they just keep getting more and more stuff. This is not just crass-commercialism, or materialism; it is something more profound and a lot weirder, that people are so insecure that they are compelled to aquire more and more, even though they may have long since past the point of "enough."

This is why people are so fat, too, because they eat and eat like eating machines, like sharks, all the time, hungry or not, because maybe one day, the food will run out, and then, maybe there won't be enough.

And one last thing. Until Christ returns there will never be world peace. Even the so called peace that you people cry about, isn't even the peace that will be when Christ returns. I pray for the Peace of Jerusalem first because I am called to do it as the scriptures says and secondly because the people of Jerusalem need not worry about their future because what is written shall come to past.

Jesus is the Peace Jahovah Shalom. So my dear readers of WAPO, remember there will never be peace on earth or world peace until Christ returns and cleans the filth out of the earth and Jesus will reign in victory on earth which will return to its original self.

First off. The kind of love the Jesus had was the AGAPE kind of love. Meaning the God kind of Love which is different from the love that many of use. God's love is unconditional and it's the love above all love. So without God there is no Agape lOve. Now without Jesus we would not celebrate CHRISTmas. That's it. Had he never been born, died, and on the the 3rd rise again, then we wouldn't be having these discussions 2,000 years later. That's just it. We discussed it when he walked the earth and they still are discussing it and will continue to discuss it until He returns. That's why I don't get angry at people for not understanding. I simply state the facts and let God be God. And Jesus Christ reign and rule in my life.

The principle of the mystic may be offered here to supplement your editorial, although I am quite sure it will not be understood as it needs great care in its explication.

The principle is this:

Perfect love is unconditional.

If something is perfect, then it is complete. But if something is unconditional, then it is incomplete as it allows addition. Hence we have a principle which is both apriori and aposteriori, and also both analytical and contingent.

Reading Kripke, now, we can say that the principle is both metaphysical, ontologial and epistemological in nature, although I will not illuminate these contours here by providing proof, which I have taken time to generate by examining ancient Indian and Greek texts

Love, then, is very important to the mystic and on this we agree. But there cannot be such a thing as conditional love, which is quite apparent in the West ( "I fell in and out of love"). For such conditional love is merely a satisfaction of an inconsistent desire, and not love at all. For love is unconditional, if it is perfect. And if love is unconditional, it accommodates all aspects of a characters development for eternity, and not for a convenient spell of time. Divorce, for example, illuminates that the relationship was never based on love.

The mystic has much to say on religious matters, but gets shouted down or bible-stomped; or worse, does not get stipended in academia. It is a great pity.

If all goes well I shall polish my insight into this affair when I vist India, however at the moment I am, as usual, destitute of funds due to my unusual career choice. Your position of power an influence could easily resolve these matters, Mr. Ghandi.

The mystic is often considered an athiest because he doesn't believe in God. The mistake is epistemic. The mystic does not believe in God because he knows and has experienced God. Yet we are never given time to complete out train of thought.

But I will refrain here.

One more thing: there is no sin or evil in the mystic's world-view. And this is quite apparent when we review the above principle. For what loves perfectly must itself be perfect. And what is perfect can only be God or the Divine. If so, then there can be no admittance of evil. This is because it would reduce the perfection of the Divine. And this would be paradoxical. And it would be paradoxical because we would have taken a false, but commonly taken semantic shift concerning the notion of Divinity. The mystic avoids this sematic shift.

JJ - for a person pushing religion you've got yourself a bit of a mean streak. Your comments are less than civil by a long shot.

We've all got plenty of secrets here but since it's a religion blog, religion is fair game and the investigation of such is not protected under the law - common or otherwise.

You've been pushing your religion for awhile, so I took a look & it's that simple. Carry on -

Hello ANONYMOUS the Pest, et al;

Please know that "i" am only a "WITNESSETH" of Many a Miracle! AND;

Best of ALL, even from the Holy Cosmic DUE-DO-BE Realm, It was all Prophecied & decided at Birth that "i" was going to be Born in ISRAEL via a HOLOCAUST VICTIM "Haggana" Father & Mother and that they would bring US (siblings after recieving "REPERATION" money from Germany) to America

(note: had choice to immigrate to Austrailia instead here, a land built on PRISONERS there too by the way) and

that "i" would become a Cub-Scout & then a Boy-Scout & then Go to Military Academy & then become an "INTERNATIONAL-SMUGGLER" [Many Years of Exotic Fun & Wealth & Adventure & while Studying & traveling for 10 years & then converting to each of this Planets the worlds religion(s), etc..] and then get caught & then met-up with "SHILOH", The Photon Bringer of the Apocalypse, AS PROPHECIED!

"i" had NO Choice & now "i" know what "THE-MESSAGE" is! "i" was Honorewd to have received the MELCHIZEDEK PEACE BLESSING(s) that cometh to the "SHILOH" (but born in AMERICA) whom hath Reverseth the MOSES Drunkin Racist NOAH Story's et al, and Exposed the "RIDDLES of THE SATAN aka JINN/DEVIL/LUCIFER/KALi/DURGA" and many more Prophet Justices therein & thereof , thus becoming a NEW-SONG as Prophecied, on and at the Holy Cosmic TRANSFINITY MOUNTAIN in Otersville, NEW YORK,!

Please see "onfaith" & "onreligion" bloggs on NeewsWeek since MARCH 20th, [Eqonox Day] 2007.

P.S. WE ECLATi-ON(s) have a EIGHT-DAY-WEEK-CALANDATE System that is ASTRONOMICALLY set with the Atomic CloCk & via the BIO-Clock System. note Cyber Friend(s), under Eclati-On Apocalyptic Philosophy, "TIME" means "TEMPERATURE" not Pre-Apocalyptic clock time nor Space-time thinking!

Oooops forgot:

"Shiloh" aka Harry W. THERIAULT went to 'Prison' , because while in York, Main. he was Caught (they say do what ya gotta do, but no get caught ya?) for steeling-Food for a Son whom waS born with a 'Clef-Lip' and that SHILOH could not affoird the Money for operation. But the Technology was not like todays, may "i' remind ye! And So, Shiloh never Left & The Holy No Man Lord G-D ECLAT kept him there for 1/2 a Century instead of (3) three day's!

Yes! Shut-Up & Do the Time!

Att: Anonymous above here, , "i" bet you will cry like a Baby, sleep with one eye open & another closed & or commit suicide or give up as a punkarino while in Any Prison!

Hay, if PARIS Hilton can Cry her way out , why not you!

Important: Going to Prison SAVED MY BIOFINITE CARBON BASED ASS, so to spaketh! "i" would not be here nor have a new Family of me own if it was not for that HOLY EXPERIENCE!

Wow ANON, you are Religious Jealousy Psychotic in the UN-HOLY Cosmic move!

"STOP! In the Name Of LOVE, before you break my Heart, Stop!...." Ya Ya, nice Song!

Ah! LIFE (Photon's) is so beautiful with Ecxlati-On(s) & never with the Off(s) , especially 'Anonymous' punkarino blogger above at 6:45Pm!

P.S.: "i" am not Running for PUBLIC Office, so why all the Anti-1st Amendment craparino questions??????? Ya Ya, "i" figured!!!!!!!!

Ya Ya Momma Poppa Monsa Mono's!

The USA Republican party with it's late Christian crusade into IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN they have brought death to hundreds of thousand, torture brutality, being common, a trail of appalling destruction. The slaughter still continuing on a daily basis. The worlds poorest people face the most powerful nations, armies, armed with most modern weapons. Helicopter Gunships, Long Range Field Artillary, Tanks. Such, used, being used against the worlds poorest most defenceles, the slaughtering of man woman as child, where none be shown mercy. Such being done by CANADA, THE USA, BRITAIN. AS OTHER WESTERN NATIONS. SUCH, THE HORROR DONE. BEING IN THE NAME OF THERE CHRISTIAN GOD. THERE CHRISTIAN GOD NOW TO BE WORSHIPED BY THE RULE OF LAW, SUCH BUT SHOWING THEY ARE AS SICK IN HEART AS THEY ARE OF MIND... .. .