Should Schools Celebrate Muslim Holidays?

TTWSYFAMDGGAHJMJ2 :

SHOULD PUBLIC SCHOOLS CELEBRATE MUSLIM HOLIDAYS?

ANS:
"No, what we should celebrate, and do, is our Judeo Christian heritage, because our nation is founded on its principles and its beliefs, viz. that all men are created equal, endowed by God with certain inalienable rights that are inscribed in human nature and that are recognized and protected in the Bill of Rights."

you forgot to add "except for blacks and women" because they were neither free nor equal when this document was made.

"The God that our Founding Fathers (FF) spoke of is not a Hindu god, a Buddhist god, a Shinto god, or a Pagan god. They were not speaking of a Sun god, a Fertility god, the Greek gods Zeus, or Dianna."

The "god" described by the founding fathers was never intended to be the judeo christian god. It was a generic term that was all encompassing. The term "god" is a common word that binds together most religions and philosophies that believe in some sort of "higher power". Also not all of the founding fathers were christians, a good portion were just deists, who had a basic belief in a higher power.

"The FF’s God is the Judeo-Christian God that gives man his natural rights--Freedom of Religion and Speech, Rights of Property, Equal Justice under the law, freedom of thought, political freedom to govern one’s self, and a right to “Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Eternal Happiness," viz. Religious Freedom."

The christian god does anything BUT accept other thoughts and beliefs in regards to other religious beliefs. And is the very reason that this nation was founded, because christians were demonizing other christian religions.

"In societies under Muslim authority, only the Muslim religion is tolerated. Muslim religion is punctuated by the passionate intemperate turmoil and its disruptive nature adamant and intransigent xenophobia that it inevitably creates."

The same intolerance and xenophobia i see on a daily basis made by christians in this nation.

"So we should publicly recognize and celebrate only our Judeo-Christian heritage"

so throw out the whole "seperation of church and state" and "freedom of religion" thing huh? they are a little inconvinient i guess. Did you not just contradict everything you just said about america being so great because christianity tells us we have "free will"?

"as should all the other religions in America also celebrate it. Christianity is the fundamental cause of the recognition of the religious tolerance and religious freedom that we enjoy in America today."

Again, christianity has been the cause of many supressions of religion around the world. not to mention countless beheadings in Europe, and witch burnings in Salem.

"Moreover, it is America's dedication to the Christian principles of "Love our neighbora as we love ourselves and as God so loves us," and, "To do unto others as you would have them do unto you," that America feeds the hungry, defends the defenseless, and aids the poor not only in America, throughout the world."

i dont know why you think that christianity has a monopoly on morals or good. As it is not exclusive to this religion. Most other religions around the world practice charity and helping their neighbors. Its not because they follow a religion, its because they have empathy. A basic understanding of what it would be like in the other persons shoes.

"It is Christianity's unparalleled recognition of the dignity of human life,that has made America unique among all the world. Consequently, America recognizes that man has a free will, and therefore, may choose what ever religion he wishes as long at it is not materially destructive to him or the society in which he lives ."

so then why would you oppose a muslim holiday? I dont personally think that schools should celebrate them, but i also dont believe that they should be celebrating ANY religious holiday.
The major christian holiday we have in place isnt even really achristian traditions in the first place. Christmas, which originally was a pagan holiday. When the christians converted the pagans, they morphed their holiday into a christian holiday (probably to make them comfortable with the new religion). This holiday has no religious meaning anymore, its more corporate if anything. A reason to jump start the economy in what would otherwise be a dead part of the year. Also.... jesus wasnt born even close to december as far a historians know.

No, we should not be observing any Muslim holiday. And why, you ask?

Because we need to ALL start cracking open their texts and reading them. Not the translations that they are sending our politicians that whitewashes what Muslims are taught, but the accepted translations that they study - Urdu, Yusuf Ali, Mohsin Khan, Shakir, Pickthal.

And in these texts (along with the hadith and sira) we will find that there peaceful passages were abrogated (replaced) and that peace with the non-muslims is not possible. While they numbers are small they are told to deceive us about the koran and what islam teaches. surah 6:25 6:110 17:45-76

We are not getting the full news about not only what islam is all about, but what Muhammed did AFTER he thought up Islam. And he did these things - it is all in their texts: Adulterer, Bandit, Immoral, Inhuman, Looter, Lecher, Misogynist, Murderer, Materialistic, assasin,
Narcissist, Pedophile, Raider, Rapist, Slavetrader, Sexmaniac, Terrorist, Torturer, Vengeful Warlord.

And slavery is still going on in Islam. And persecution of Christians too. The Arab Festival 2009, had an incident and now the Christians have been denied their free speech even though it was the Muslims who attacked them. Elsewhere, gays have been attacked by Somali children. Here is what is taught in Islam about gays:

Shiba al-Hamad (2005), saudi sheik Abd al-Qadar
-'Homosexuality is a sever depravity.'
-If you caught a man in the act of sodomy kill both him and his partner.'

ITS (islamic Thinkers Society) June 2004
'We are muslims and we will never stay silent against this act. Because allah, the glorified and exhalted, forbids homosexuality.'

Abu Mujahid, spokesperson ITS (in USA)
'Sometimes we are blunt when the ... ruling system is established we give them a choice we will consult them, give them choice of therapy and tell them to abandon the homosexuality lifestyle and if they don't - either leave and if you want to be here then you got to face the punishment as a criminal.'

He was asked what is the punishment.

'Throw them off a cliff.'Shiba al-Hamad (2005), saudi sheik Abd al-Qadar
-'Homosexuality is a sever depravity.'
-If you caught a man in the act of sodomy kill both him and his partner.'

ITS (islamic Thinkers Society) June 2004
'We are muslims and we will never stay silent against this act. Because allah, the glorified and exhalted, forbids homosexuality.'

Abu Mujahid, spokesperson ITS (in USA)
'Sometimes we are blunt when the ... ruling system is established we give them a choice we will consult them, give them choice of therapy and tell them to abandon the homosexuality lifestyle and if they don't - either leave and if you want to be here then you got to face the punishment as a criminal.'

He was asked what is the punishment.

'Throw them off a cliff.'

I will leave you all with this quote from two so called 'moderate' Muslim leaders:

Dr. Zakir Naik
'In some islamic countries, eg: saudi arabia, etc propogation of other religions is prohibited. Even construction of any place of worship is also prohibited. in koran 3:85, it is mentioned that allah will never accept any religion other than islam therefore knowing that islam is the only true religion we do not allow propogation of any other religion.'

Yousef Khattab, supporter
-'islam will dominate, this is what it will be.'
-'We want to see sharia here and it will be. The flag of , "there is no god other than allah, muhammed is the messenger of god", will be (god willing) on the White House, if thats where we choose it to be. It just takes time, the American people are waking up now.'
-'There is no compulsion in islam, that means, we cannot force it on you, but we will force islamic (sharia), god willing.'

(source: The Third Jihad)

To anyone who might have been upset about my criticisms of atheism last week, I can demonstrate that those criticisms were not done out of malice but out of my simple interest to understand atheism. I can prove it because I can demonstrate that the atheistic world is not necessarily without meaning and hope--in fact I can demonstrate great meaning and hope. Rejoice atheists.

Does man have free will or not? (An exercise on free will and determinism and the relationship of such to atheism and religion).

Does man have free will or not? Supposing God exists (omnipotence, omniscience) we can say that man is poised in existence with a measure of free will--poised because although he is not as subject to being as determined as the animals,--in fact man is the freest animal we know of--he is obviously not with the power of God. And being poised in existence man can choose between good and evil, and the more he chooses the good the more he is liberated into the arms of God, where he shares in the ultimate free will of God.


But if he chooses evil, obviously he finds that the reward of his evil is ultimately hell,--a state in which his human consciousness is preserved but thwarted on all sides, made to feel the most painful futility, the knowledge driven home that one is completely subject to determinism, no hope at all. Now if God does not exist--or perhaps even if man simply chooses not to believe in God--the result is that for all free will of man, eventually man is subject to determinism, because there is no final, ultimate free will that can be achieved--no God.

But does this mean a futile existence for man? Does the fact that man is ultimately subject to being determined, fated if you will, mean he should just stop now and not go on, give up searching for meaning in the universe? Not on your life. On the contrary--in fact man without God is still poised in existence: Man without God might not have God as the ultimate possibility, but he still is as above the animals in the sense of having a freer will as he was in a world with God. What this means is that although man ultimately is subject to determinism he has an almost unlimited possibility of growth--he can increase free will to the point just short of God.


To put it even clearer, with or without God man is in a relativistic relationship to the creatures around him with respect to freedom--he is freer than all the other creatures and they are in stages of freedom with relationship to themselves and man. This means that man potentially can be even freer--much freer--for relativity of freedom has no limits other than that one cannot be nothing or God (man for all possibility of disintegration cannot be totally nothing, the matter of which he is composed just goes into the composition of other things. And as for man not being able to become God, that should be self explanatory).


In other words, although man by his choices in a world without God will not be liberated into the arms of God, and share in his free will, man potentially can become a stupendous being just short of God, can become superhuman way beyond his current--and probably far into the future--imagination. Man in a world without God is a creature which can make himself almost God--provided he does not let his eventual failure to become God get him down, discourage him. No, man must do what many wise men have said life is: A journey.

In other words, there is no possibility of being with God, we are ultimately determined, fated--but we have before us the journey to almost becoming God, a journey toward the superhuman, the possibility of being almost everywhere in the universe and with almost perfect knowledge. Perfection is impossible, but the universe before us and without God is far from imperfection. We can know what perfection there is in the universe,--we can know all of it. And know the difference, know the imperfection that remains. Let no man now or in millenia to come dare state he knows perfection from imperfection.

We always will be trying to be perfect. And perhaps we will never know our imperfection--or know it only after a near infinite and eternal journey. I am one with the wise men: Life is a journey.

TTWSYFAMDGGAHJMJ2,

Once again it is obvious you suffer from the Three B Syndrome i.e. Bred, Born and Brainwashed in the RCC.

And once again for your perusal:

As per the famous contemporary RCC theologian, Father Edward Schillebeeckx,

Church: The Human Story of God,
Crossroad, 1993, p.91 (softcover)

"Christians (et al) must give up a perverse, unhealthy and inhuman doctrine of predestination without in so doing making God the great scapegoat of history."

"Nothing is determined in advance: in
nature there is chance and determinism; in the world of human activity there is possibility of free choices. Therefore the historical future is not known even to God, otherwise we and our history would be merely a puppet show in which God holds the strings. For God, too, history is an adventure, an open history for and of men and women."

i.e. No one, not even God can prophesy since that would violate the God-given/natural gifts of Free Will and Future.

IN REPLY TO (IRT)
CCNL1:
“THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.”

IRT:
“You make some good points however the name Christianity in all fairness needs to be changed to honor all the founders/"necessary accessories".

To wit:
Paul of Taurus was first of the "necessary accessories". He recognized early on the great wealth of Roman and Greek Gentiles so he wrote his epistles raising Jesus and his embellished life from the dead and the Gentiles "ate it up". His promise of the imminent second coming was shear brilliance in gathering much silver and gold (the prime necessary accessory). The Romans got jealous ending the life of the first necessary accessory.
Pilate, although not the founder of Christianity, was another "necessary accessory i.e. he could have easily sent Jesus to the salt mines.
Constantine and his swords finished the "necessary accessory" scenario.”

ANS;
Where did you get this fairy tale from, Grimms Fairy Tales the Cartoon Network, or Baghdad Bob? Try reading Scripture, if you want to know what happen, and try reading the Catholic Catechism if you want to know what it means. It will save you time and frustration.

IRT:
“Adding this to God not knowing the future, eliminates any God involvement in the foundation of Christianity."

ANS:
The conclusion is known, it up or down, Heaven, or Hell. There is no future with God, another of your mistakes because you know not of what you speak. God doesn’t exist in time. You might try understanding what God said to Moses. “I Am Who Am,” See if you can figure it out.

IRT:
“Conclusion:
Christianity and the other contemporary religions are simply the result of human evolution away from the "dark side."

ANS:
Wrong again, it’s not evolution your having trouble with, it’s “delusions.” Try seeking the Truth and you won’t have the problems you're having trying to debunk Christianity. You're an amateur compared to the others who tried and failed for over 20 centuries. The Truth is hidden in the Scriptures, and the Church is there to explain them to you.

Christian holidays are celebrated because our Founding Father’s based the laws of the Constitution on the Natural Moral Laws of a Christian God. Moslems had nothing to do with national holidays. Christianity did and national holidays recognize Christianity's importance to our nation, and its founders.

The official school calendar for the NYC school system is posted at:

http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/1FD604BD-C000-4A4B-A1A6-44B57C387CED/38696/20082009SchoolYearCalendarAdditionalInformationrev.pdf

The following religious holidays are noted on said calendar:

"Winter Recess (including Christmas and New Year's Day)

Spring Recess (including Good Friday, Easter and Passover)"

"Rosh Hashanah
Yom Kippur
MLK Jr."

Recommendations for the NYC school system:
Drop all the religious names. Make Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and the MLK Jr. holidays, "Days of Reflection" or drop them altogether and replace them with a "generic" three-day period of "Days of Human Reflection and Responsibilities".

To ccnl1:

Why In the first place would you make such an ignorant comment? If you don't understand the religion and don't have anything worthwhile to say then don't say anything at all. Don't start all that pish posh about "Freedom of Speech", there is an art to that and I don't think being ignorant is a part of it.

Answer:
Ramadan is NOT a holiday, therefore there should be no need to close school for 1 month. The holiday's I believe they are referring to are Eid Al- fatha and Eid al- Adha. If we have such a large muslim community in the US why not? Islam is the second largest religion, first being Christianity. Not saying we should accommodate, but having days of for Christian and Jewish Holidays should also mean Islamic holiday's as well.

TTWSYFAMDGGAHJMJ2 :

You make some good points however the name Christianity in all fairness needs to be changed to honor all the founders/"necessary accessories".

To wit:

Paul of Taurus was first of the "necessary accessories". He recognized early on the great wealth of Roman and Greek Gentiles so he wrote his epistles raising Jesus and his embellished life from the dead and the Gentiles "ate it up". His promise of the imminent second coming was shear brilliance in gathering much silver and gold (the prime necessary accessory). The Romans got jealous ending the life of the first necessay accessory.

Pilate, although not the founder of Christianity, was another "necessary accessory i.e. he could have easily sent Jesus to the salt mines.

Constantine and his swords finished the "necessary accessory" scenario.

Adding this to God not knowing the future, eliminates any God involvement in the foundation of Christianity.

Conclusion:

Christianity and the other contemporary religions are simply the result of human evolution away from the "dark side".

The short answer is absolutely not.....

Clearly all designated time away from schools, ranging from elemenatary to university levels, should be officially described as Fall Break, Winter Break, Summer Break or some such generic description, without attributing any sort of special religious intent or linkage.

Such breaks in the round of public education should be all-inclusive and secular in nature. It pays lip service to traditional educational downtime without singling out a particular religious faith. A win-win situation for all.

While we may not have had such need for a decidedly secular position 100 years ago, that's exactly where our society is today. Separation of church and state should be evident at all public levels of society, including the educational millieu. Exceptions are the purview of private schools.

Cultural heterogeneity and homogeneity have to live side by side under the law and in the public square, in any self-declared secular, democratic republic - and this goes well beyond the majority vs minority equation.

I don't think we have to describe closing schools on a religious holiday as "celebrating" it.

When you have to teach thirty students the same material at the same time, it's highly disruptive when a large number of them don't show up for class. If school opened on Christmas, it would be a waste of everyone's time. Same for Rosh Hashannah in some jurisdictions.

That said, I don't think 12% absenteeism is sufficient to motivate a system-wide shutdown. Although 25% would be.

SHOULD PUBLIC SCHOOLS CELEBRATE MUSLIM HOLIDAYS?

ANS:
No, what we should celebrate, and do, is our Judeo Christian heritage, because our nation is founded on its principles and its beliefs, viz. that all men are created equal, endowed by God with certain inalienable rights that are inscribed in human nature and that are recognized and protected in the Bill of Rights.

The God that our Founding Fathers (FF) spoke of is not a Hindu god, a Buddhist god, a Shinto god, or a Pagan god. They were not speaking of a Sun god, a Fertility god, the Greek gods Zeus, or Dianna.

The FF’s God is the Judeo-Christian God that gives man his natural rights--Freedom of Religion and Speech, Rights of Property, Equal Justice under the law, freedom of thought, political freedom to govern one’s self, and a right to “Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Eternal Happiness," viz. Religious Freedom.

Therefore we observe the celebrations of Christmas, Easter, and Good Friday. We celebrate Thanksgiving for the bounties we have received from this Christian God. Muslims are given the Freedom of Religion because of our Judeo-Christian heritage recognizes man's free will.

In societies under Muslim authority, only the Muslim religion is tolerated. Muslim religion is punctuated by the passionate intemperate turmoil and its disruptive nature adamant and intransigent xenophobia that it inevitably creates.

Unfortunately, even in the Jewish State and their controlled territories, the Jews have suppressed both Muslim (in part for self-defense) and Christian religions. In India, man is not created equal, and animals, in some sects, have the same dignity as man.

So we should publicly recognize and celebrate only our Judeo-Christian heritage, as should all the other religions in America also celebrate it. Christianity is the fundamental cause of the recognition of the religious tolerance and religious freedom that we enjoy in America today.

Moreover, it is America's dedication to the Christian principles of "Love our neighbora as we love ourselves and as God so loves us," and, "To do unto others as you would have them do unto you," that America feeds the hungry, defends the defenseless, and aids the poor not only in America, throughout the world.

It is Christianity's unparalleled recognition of the dignity of human life,that has made America unique among all the world. Consequently, America recognizes that man has a free will, and therefore, may choose what ever religion he wishes as long at it is not materially destructive to him or the society in which he lives .

LEPIDOPTERYX is absolutely right!

It is not whether schools should celebrate Muslim holidays, but rather whether schools should celebrate any religious holidays at all!

Should schools celebrate Muslim holidays? Should schools in general close to accommodate themselves to religions?

It seems almost everyone understands this problem, can articulate the conflict. The conflict is this: The United States has freedom of religion--allows virtually any religion to worship,--in fact does not mind schisms or the creation of new religions--provided the extremes of religion are not encouraged. And if each religion were to demand to be recognized by school closings, of course the days of schooling would be shrunk, the days of school would be virtually numbered. But if we were to keep schools open regardless of special days to religions slowly but surely the message would be sent that for all freedom of religion in the United States the U.S. does not educate for any religion let alone a particular one.

This particular conflict has not come to the fore during the past two hundred or so years of U.S. history because (probably, I might be wrong) religious diversity did not exist except in the form of schisms within Christianity and the creation of new religions which are based on Christianity or Western pagan traditions which are satisfied with celebrating on halloween and/or Christmas or days which do not necessarily have to be accompanied by school closings.

But as religious diversity increases in the U.S.--as the U.S. literally embraces the huddled masses from here, there and everywhere--of course stress will be placed on schools, of course holidays will be demanded for this and that religion. In fact the country will be stressed in many other areas as well (everyone taking off for work every other day?).

So the battle lines are shaping: the conflict between allowing freedom of religion in the United States--and allowing religions to affect schooling, etc.--and virtually abolishing religion, not allowing it to affect important institutions in the U.S. which are not religious--and of course if religion is not allowed to affect institutions not religious it becomes constricted, private and eventually fades to simply believing in one's heart that there must be ultimate goodness behind existence or something. In other words, one's religious beliefs become more abstract and simplified--an essence is distilled which most everyone can agree with.--An almost grain alcohol distillation with everyone agreeing there must be an ultimate meaning behind existence, again, an ultimate good. Religion distilled to a simple, clear and profound conversation.

But of course another course can be taken: the U.S. can continue saying it celebrates freedom of religion but really celebrates only certain religious holidays. In other words the U.S. can try to preserve the days when only a few religions were allowed to influence a wide variety of U.S. institutions. But of course in trying to preserve those days we all become aware of the hypocrisy of the U.S. saying it celebrates freedom of religion.

So...probably what will occur is that as the U.S. grows more and more diverse and more religions are thrust to the fore a movement will be born--or rather become more articulated than ever before--to reduce religion to mere essentials and keep it from unduly influencing institutions not religious. But for the latter to occur the U.S. must somehow become a nation in which arriving masses are willing to shrug off much of their cultural baggage--bring good food and music and meditation and maybe fast days (I personally believe every American should celebrate Ramadan if only to keep from stuffing his face for at least a part of the year. In fact it must be stressed that being slightly hungry rather than satiated is good for the body and mind, that all one's senses, hearing, taste, smell, sight are increased, made more acute, because the body is being thrust into "hunter mode"...In other words, fast days to increase keenness of body and mind) but toss out all the...well, we all know what.

That is the dilemma. I am confident the U.S. will solve the problem. I just finished reading a bit of the history of the U.S. circa 1800-17 by the famous American historian Henry Adams, and I am astonished how far we have come and how quickly. From few crummy and nearly impassable roads to the Yankee clipper which gave the Brits so much trouble in the war of 1812 to the airplane, rocket to the moon and internet. We Americans are problem solvers. We will solve this problem.

No.

What about the option of floating holidays such as those some of us are granted by our employers? Say 3-4 each year to be used when needed.

Keep religion at home and out of public schools (seperation of church & state). You want to observe religious holidays.. go to a religious school.

Why would anyone want to celebrate the life of a warmongering, hallucinating, womanizing and illiterate Arab????

Public schools should not be closed for ANY religious holidays.
If you want your kids' school to close for your religious holidays, enroll them in parochial schools.

What's the critical mass at which it's not worth opening school if X% of the students won't be there?

I suspect it's more than 12. Especially if, unlike Christmas, the other 88% of parents won't be off work to watch them.

Public schools should not be closed for ANY religious holidays.
You want school to close for your religious holidays, enroll your kids in a parochial school.