Pro-Life and Death in Kansas

IN REPLY TO (IRT)
ERICHK1 :
“WHAT DOES CHRISTIAN VALUES HAVE TO DO WITH MURDER?”

IRT:
“Why do we even talk about it. Christian values have nothing to do with murder. Or should we say religious values? There will always be a so called justification for these nut cases. So let us just save our -ahem the governments money and shoot the bastard too.”

ANS:
Have you ever heard of the Fifth Commandment? “Thou shalt not murder.”

A Christian fanatic happened to had said this over 2,000 years ago, “But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea—Mt 18:6.”

The morally blind on the left blame the Right for the suppression of human rights, but they can’t look in the mirror because they see the image of their own revilement of humanity and the human suffering they are causing.

The Left doesn’t not want to see the unborn that is cut to pieces with curettes, or the scalded bodies of the unborn murdered with saline solutions, or the child struggling for life or watch a butcher plunging a surgical scissors into the back of a little infant’s skull and then sucks the child’s brains out.

The Radical Left does not want to see a patient that is dying from AIDS because he became a homosexual. They can approve the murder of the embryo, because they deny its humanity as they deny the humanity of the unborn.

IN REPLY TO
JeffD1 :
ABORTION AND NUT CASES:

IRT:
“Randall Terry and his ilk can engage in all of the back-pedaling they want (decrying violent acts like this killing), but it's the over-the-top rhetoric of Mr. Terry, Operation Rescue, and similar groups that has served as a trigger for this latest murder. It just so happens that this time, much of that rhetoric was couched in religious terms.

ANS:
Did you ever listen to what he was saying. The unborn is a child, and taking its life is murder.

But who is there to hears the silent screams of this little unborn but the Christians. There is no Christmas for the aborted, the flesh peddles have taken his Christmas away and a butcher sucks .the little child to pieces with a vacuum, or the butcher scalds the little unborn to death with saline.

A child survives the burning acid, and the butcher throttles it to death. God gives woman the child, but man nefariously takes away its life.

IRT:
There is nothing more potentially murderous than pious certainty. . . no limit to the wickedness that human beings can commit when they sincerely think they are acting with divine permission or carrying out a divine command.

ANS:
Is not the unborn mutilated by abortion, sucking off the limbs of a little unborn child, first its legs, then its arms and finally its head by vacuum? And what about scalding the little child in the womb with saline solution, and the child survives and we allow the executioner to break its neck or drown it, or choke it to death. That’s ok with you?

Of course, there is the curette method of slicing this little living child up piece by piece until it is cut out of the womb. Wouldn’t that qualify as torture? At least, it should be cruel and unusual punishment, plus a host of other Constitutional violations it violates. Moreover, under the Geneva Convention’s Article #3, it certainly is an ''outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment.''

We finally, ended partial birth abortion, where a butcher takes a little child’s head and plunges a surgical scissors into the back of the child’s head while it is struggling for life. He then inserts a vacuum into the wound and sucks out the child’s brains. Four justices voted that was legal; the same justices who voted that terrorist should get trials by jury and that the Geneva Convention applied to even terrorists but not to little children.

IN REPLY TO
JeffD1 :
ABORTION AND NUT CASES:

IRT:
“All of this is an excellent illustration of the principle that religious belief or religious doctrine is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for peaceful, ethical behavior.”

ANS:
Really, ever heard of the Fifth Commandment, “Thou shalt not kill?” I don’t think either of these nut cases, Tiller and his murderer ever heard of them either.

Ever heard of “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Or “Love your neighbor as you love yourself, and as God loves you.” Maybe they should have read the Beatitudes and the Corporal Works of Mercy and we wouldn’t have these two nut cases.

The blame for these two nut cases is the nut cases on the Supreme Court who claimed the conceived wasn’t a baby but a thing even up to the point of birth. Thus four on the Court still think that taking the baby’s head while it was being born and plunging a surgical scissors into the back of its skull and sucking out its brains so as to preserve its organs and flesh to sell it on the open market to the flesh mongers should be legal.

Planned Parenthood president Mary Calderone:
"Abortion is the taking of a life."

“Late-term fetuses are being dissected and their parts sold for huge profits. Only 2 percent of late-term fetuses have any abnormalities. They range in age from 4 to 7 months. Sometimes the babies are born alive, and the doctor must break their neck or beat them to death or put them to drown in the garbage with her mother's blood.” Tiller did a lot of late term abortions and a few partial as well, Does that bother you?

Beverly McMillan:
“On why she stopped doing abortions: "It got to where I couldn't stand to see the little bodies anymore."

Abortionist Dr. William Thompson:
"Arms, legs, chests come out in the forceps. It's not a sight for everyone."

Carol Everett, former owner of two abortion clinics and director of four, "A Walk Through an Abortion Clinic":

"Every woman has these same two questions: First, "Is it a baby?" "No," the counselor assures her. "it is a product of conception(or blood clot or piece of tissue)" Even though these counselors see 6 week babies daily, less than an inch long, with arms, legs, and eyes that are closed like newborn puppies, they lie to the women. How many women would actually have an abortion if they told them the truth?"

IN REPLY TO
JeffD1 :
ABORTION AND NUT CASES:

IRT:
"The apparent killer, Scott Roeder, is a self-styled "Christian patriot" and borderline nut-case who seems to have taken some cues from a "prayer and action newsletter" run by a Dave Leach, who is fond of religiously-flavored, inflammatory rhetoric against abortion."

ANS:
Tiller murdered some 60,000 unborn children, doesn’t that also make him a nut case? Apparently one nut case murdered another nut case. Hence, the solution is to eliminate nut cases.

Here’s another nut case, a Rabbi claiming Tiller was a national hero.

This look like the new Bush coalition, Obama style. Do we really need more faith based initiatives? The Vatican behaves more like a corrupt state than a Christian Church.
How cozy, Bush, Obama, the Clinton's ( yes the Catholic vote is there too ... Hillary ), Catholic Socialism, and yes the right type of Inmans,and other control freaks who like Theocratic Socialism.

My condolences to the Tiller family. This should not have happened.

The taking of Life, any and all Life is not normal, it is the wrong direction for humanity to travel.

The Christian Bible tells us “Be angry and do not sin” … Murder is sin.

It is absolutely a good start we should appreciate him for his sincerity and reciprocate.It may go a long way down the history to reshape and streamline the relationship between America and the Muslim world.

These christianist terrorists hate America every bit as much as al Qaeda. The only positive thing to come out of this episode is the public awareness of this fact.

ccnl1 wrote :

the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are in jail.

___________________________________-

Guess you haven't been to Prince William County, Virginia, lately

If things are so bad that people are getting killed for providing abortions I wonder what will happen when genetics really takes off and we not only continue aborting fetuses but start selecting the ones we want to go to term. Actually we are doing such now to a limited extent, but in the future we can well imagine it will be routine to determine whether a fetus is suffering from this or that negative condition or has this or that positive quality. In such a situation would it not be routine for virtually all women to abort at least one time in their lives and strive for a baby demonstrated to be not only healthy but more than healthy by scientific means? I suppose what I am trying to say is that as science gets better and better at understanding humans at the genetic level we will more and more select for positive qualities--and this necessarily means rejecting many fetuses. But I suppose we could get around the abortion problem by having all women with birth control until they want a baby and then have a positive embryo implanted. But still many embryos would be rejected. Goal: to have the human race begin selecting what humans they want to represent themselves in the future and do so without anything resembling abortion. But can we do the positive--select babies with positive qualities--without having to do the negative--reject some babies (embryos)? Maybe a more scientific person than myself can comment on this dilemma--if it indeed is one. My knowledge of science--especially in this instance--is limited.

"I'm Pro-Life and I Carry a Gun."

Call this episode what you like, but I'm selling a boat load of these T-shirts and coffee mugs!

The ultra-right wing conservatives who cannot accept the fact that Obama and the Democrats won the election should think about this:

Liberals have second amendment rights, too.

Why do we even talk about it. Christian values have nothing to do with murder. Or should we say religious values? There will always be a so called justification for these nut cases. So let us just save our -ahem the governments money and shoot the bastard too.

The Bible provides 2 entities that can punish an offense: God and the State. It is never the individual's job to to create his own justice and punish. That simply leads to a society without laws.

In this case the State has allowed the practice of abortion that he performed. That certainly doesn't make it right but it is legal and as citizens, subject to the State, we must must not take the law into our own hands. Ultimately, God will have the final say in this case and his judgement will be perfect and final.

I certainly do not agree with the practices of Mr. Tiller, and believe they were dispicable. It is unfortunate that this man would not repent of his actions.

Calling a man a murderer is not wrong and is not a call to violence against someone. Timothy McVeigh was a murderer and no one would disagree with that. He went to trial and was punished by the State as he should have been. But to try and murder him for his actions would be extremely inappropriate and a perversion of justice. The State judges and God judges, but not the individual.

I am amazed how much pro-choice proponents jump on these things. Of course they should condemn them but everyone is doing that. I think they love the fact that they can divert the issue for a little while. The last thing they want is people thinking about the children lost in abortion or the ramifications on the mother. They are losing the battle and the majority of Americans are against abortion. They will do anything to make a pro-choice person look bad. This is just reinforcement to the fact that we need to act in a civilized manner as we promote a pro-choice standpoint.

the religious who kill are terrorists, plain and simple. America is in the midst of a terrorist war by the pro lifers who will never give up and allow a difference of opinion.

Murder is just one of the methods they use. prolifers only care about getting their beliefs. Murdering people is an act of terror and puts them in the same category and the 9/11 bombers.

such hatred and intolerance and murder is not consistent with American freedom.
we are told to either believe in Pro life or else. and now we see another example of the evil these hard line terrorists do on the "nonbelievers."

Pro lifers need to move to Iran or Saudi arabia where they can find fellow "nuts".

where is our right to believe? your religion is evil, plain and simple.

The apparent killer, Scott Roeder, is a self-styled "Christian patriot" and borderlne nut-case who seems to have taken some cues from a "prayer and action newsletter" run by a Dave Leach, who is fond of religiously-flavored, inflammatory rhetoric against abortion.

All of this is an excellent illustration of the principle that religious belief or religious doctrine is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for peaceful, ethical behavior.

Randall Terry and his ilk can engage in all of the back-pedaling they want (decrying violent acts like this killing), but it's the over-the-top rhetoric of Mr. Terry, Operation Rescue, and similar groups that has served as a trigger for this latest murder. It just so happens that this time, much of that rhetoric was couched in religious terms.

There is nothing more potentially murderous than pious certainty. . . no limit to the wickedness that human beings can commit when they sincerely think they are acting with divine permission or carrying out a divine command.

Jeff D

There is little or no correctness in his death. the pro-life will kill and happily avoid a commandment stating 'thou shalt not commit murder', and calling the victim murderer.
In the end, i still feel that abortion is mostly (not all) the choice of the carrying mother, not the religious fanatic hanging onto 10 rules on a clay tablet, whilst stating to raped and abused young mothers: 'please turn the other cheak' (then they seem to be so compasionate on forgiving).
I have always had mixed feelings about abortions, but it has always in regard to the choice and the reason, not the physician.

fenwayfem,

Please support your statistics with supporting references.

"....the 757,500 kids who go missing in America every year (that's 2,000 a day), the hundreds of thousands who are removed from their families for poevrty, neglect or abuse and then revictimized in foster care, the 1 in 3 women who will be sexually assaulted as a child or adult, the dismal state of our nation's schools and the dearth of parents in teh home because of the lack of a living wage," etc., etc.

Geesch! So many humans are funny and weird -- killing others, at no profit.

By the way, who's Pamela?

This perspective, Pamela, constitutes equivocation about, and overt support for, terrorism.

The main points in your article are to me, ludicrous. And i say this with dismay, for you are someone i admire. In this i think you are blinded by your own narrow ideology.

For example, self defense is the principle in a housebreak-in. A family's security and justifable physical defense includes family members, self, critters and property. Rape and other forms of violation, including murder are so frequently associated with break-ins, especially by drug addicts high on violence inducing chemicals, that to equate the death due to self-protective measures by the home occupiers of a home intruder with "murder for theft" is disingenuous to say the least.

Next, NON-VIOLENT civil disobedience is any citizen's right. When you make it an aggressive act, you have ceased to demonstrate and become a criminal. The law protects my right to have an abortion and your right is exrcised in not having one.

When you interfere by murder with the law of the land and curtail my democratically imbued rights as a citizen in harmony with my faith perspectiveand/or belief system you have become so obsessed with controlling the behavior of others according to your own ideology, that you have joined the ranks of the terrorists.

To equate cold blooded murder of a Human rights supporter of women's rights with any actions of the Civil Rights movement of which i was and still am an active part, is reactive hyperbolic anathema.

The civil rights which have been violated are the rights of every child to enter this world wanted, valued, loved, provided for and cared for all his or her life. The Civil Rights which have been abridged are that of a medical provider to respect women's and girlss decisions about their bodies rather than have zealots make their reproductive decisions for them; those control freaks who would force them to breed, and assert that even raped and victimized girls' and women's choices are circumscribed because a blood clot, an embryo, or a foetus has more rights than a mature female.

To assert that this fringe nut job's murderous of a physician ,violating a house of worship, as well as law, may be justifiable homocide offers tacit support to terrorism.

As a sister muslim, and one who knows well that until the recent right wing backlash against moderation in Islam, a woman's right to abortion was protected in Islamic jurisprudence, and a woman's life and choices affirmed, i am horrified that under any guise of progressivism this misogynistic and misguided essay can give succor not to women mourning the loss of a guardian of their freedom and dignity and reproductive health, but instead supports the ideology of control freaks who rather than exert their own life choices seek to demonize and destroy the rights of others.

In any case it is Shaitan who has a field day with the abortion issue. for while we are focused on that we ignore the 757,500 kids who go missing in America every year (that's 2,000 a day), the hundreds of thousands who are removed from their families for poevrty, neglect or abuse and then revictimized in foster care, the 1 in 3 women who will be sexually assaulted as a child or adult, the dismal state of our nation's schools and the dearth of parents in teh home because of the lack of a living wage, etc., etc.

The citizens/taxpayers of the USA do not tolerate murder and those who commit it.
For the record:

§ Timothy McVeigh was executed. Terry Nichols will follow soon.

§ Eric Rudolph is spending three life terms in prison with no parole.

§
Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are in jail.