Candidates and Guilt by Association

ccnl, "There is only one answer to all of this, a good Wiccan spell cast over the mouths of the candidates and their supporters!!!! Or maybe the distribution of holy water and/or rosaries. They also have power to heal wagging tongues"

You are kidding right? You sound like a West Virginia hillbilly! scary!!!

Integrity is everything in life. It can't be factored away from the person. To what extent is it right or wrong to judge candidates by the company they keep? I think it is right to determine if candidates live by their principles. If they associate with religious extremists such as Jeremiah Wright, who himself advocates a theology of liberation on a materialistic basis, you have a problem. If he is a lawyer for the voter registration group ACORN, and then says that he knew very little about ACORN, he is a liar. Or if she says that she descended into Bosnia amid sniper fire and machine gun fire while others on the same trip said nothing like that happened, you have a problem. These inconsistencies must be brought to light so that candidates realize that they must tell the truth.

The mere fact of an "association" is irrelevant, for the simple reason that we wisely attribute more meaning to our lives than the fact that they all reduce to a running tape of "photo-ops". What matters, if at all, is the substance of any given association. In the case of Obama and Ayers, what did they do as "associates"? Did they merely serve on the same board and never talk to each other; did they interact but only on the subject of advancing the cause of education; did they joke about terrorist acts; did they have deep discussions about the need for social revolution in America? It is on these bases that we will have any reason to raise questions or not, to be concerned or not. And as far as the media has been able to discover, there is no cause for such questions or concerns in this case.

See the complete story of Joe Vogler at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Vogler

"Vogler disappeared under suspicious circumstances in May 1993[4], just weeks before he was scheduled to give a speech to the United Nations on Alaskan independence, sponsored by the government of Iran.[5][6] Convicted thief Manfried West confessed to having murdered Vogler the following year in what he described as a plastic explosives sale gone bad.[4] Manfred West later said his confession was a lie designed to get attention, and police believe West killed Vogler "in a simple robbery attempt".[7] Vogler's remains were discovered in a gravel pit east of Fairbanks in October 1994 following an anonymous tip.[4] They had been wrapped in a blue tarp secured with duct tape and were identified through fingerprint analysis.[4]

In the opinion of AIP Chair Lynette Clark and other AIP leaders, however, Vogler's death reflected more than a dispute with West. Clark has stated, "He was executed."[8] She notes that Vogler was about to appear before the United Nations to address the issue of Alaskan independence: "The United States government would have been deeply embarrassed. And we can't have that, can we?"[8]

Vogler was buried in Dawson City, Yukon Territory, Canada, fulfulling his wish that he not be buried under the American flag. His second wife, Doris, who died of cancer in January 1992, is buried next to him."

Remains of Alaska Separatist Are Identified
October 15, 1994
-----------
The blue tarp and duct tape in which the remains were wrapped, officials said, matched a description given by a convicted thief, Manfred West, who confessed last summer that he had killed Mr. Vogler in a plastic-explosives sale gone bad and had then buried him.
-----------

One year after this story was published, Todd Palin joined the AIP. The leader of the party had just been murdered a year before buying plastic explosives. The party motto is ALASKA FIRST ALASKA ALWAYS.

Country First? You betcha!

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940CE3DB153CF936A25753C1A962958260

A Wasted Vote
by Rep. Chuck Baldwin
October 10, 2008

When asked why they will not vote for a third party candidate, many people will respond by saying something like, "He cannot win." Or, "I don't want to waste my vote." It is true: America has not elected a third party candidate since 1860. Does that automatically mean, however, that every vote cast for one of the two major party candidates is not a wasted vote? I don't think so.

In the first place, a wasted vote is a vote for someone you know does not represent your own beliefs and principles. A wasted vote is a vote for someone you know will not lead the country in the way it should go. A wasted vote is a vote for the "lesser of two evils." Or, in the case of John McCain and Barack Obama, what we have is a choice between the "evil of two lessers."

Albert Einstein is credited with saying that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result. For years now, Republicans and Democrats have been leading the country in the same basic direction: toward bigger and bigger government; more and more socialism, globalism, corporatism, and foreign interventionism; and the dismantling of constitutional liberties. Yet, voters continue to think that they are voting for "change" when they vote for a Republican or Democrat. This is truly insane!

Take a look at the recent $850+ billion Wall Street bailout: both John McCain and Barack Obama endorsed and lobbied for it. Both McCain and Obama will continue to bail out these international banksters on the backs of the American taxpayers. Both McCain and Obama support giving illegal aliens amnesty and a path to citizenship. In the debate this past Tuesday night, both McCain and Obama expressed support for sending U.S. forces around the world for "peacekeeping" purposes. They also expressed support for sending combat forces against foreign countries even if those countries do not pose a threat to the United States. Neither Obama nor McCain will do anything to stem the tide of a burgeoning police state or a mushrooming New World Order. Both Obama and McCain support NAFTA and similar "free trade" deals. Neither candidate will do anything to rid America of the Federal Reserve, or work to eliminate the personal income tax, or disband the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). Both Obama and McCain support the United Nations. So, pray tell, how is a vote for either McCain or Obama not a wasted vote?

But, back to the "he cannot win" argument: to vote for John McCain is to vote for a man who cannot win. Yes, I am saying it here and now: John McCain cannot win this election. The handwriting is on the wall. The Fat Lady is singing. It is all over. Finished. John McCain cannot win.

With only three weeks before the election, Barack Obama is pulling away. McCain has already pulled his campaign out of Michigan. In other key battleground states, McCain is slipping fast. He was ahead in Missouri; now it is a toss-up or leaning to Obama. A couple of weeks ago, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida were all leaning towards McCain, or at least toss-up states. Now, they are all leaning to Obama. Even the longtime GOP bellwether state of Indiana is moving toward Obama. In addition, new voter registrations are at an all-time high, and few of them are registering as Republicans. In fact, the Republican Party now claims only around 25% of the electorate, and Independents are increasingly leaning toward Obama.

Ladies and gentlemen, Barack Obama is headed for an electoral landslide victory over John McCain. John McCain can no more beat Barack Obama than Bob Dole could beat Bill Clinton.

I ask, therefore, Are not conservatives and Christians who vote for John McCain guilty of the same thing that they accuse people who vote for third party candidates of doing? Are they not voting for someone who cannot win? Indeed, they are. In fact, conservatives and Christians who vote for John McCain are not only voting for a man who cannot win, they are voting for a man who does not share their own beliefs and principles. If this is not insanity, nothing is!

So, why not (for once in your life, perhaps) cast a vote purely for principle! Vote for someone who is truly pro-life. Someone who would quickly secure our nation's borders, and end the invasion of our country by illegal aliens. Someone who would, on his first day in office, release Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean and fire U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton. Someone who would immediately, upon assuming office, begin leading the charge to dismantle the Federal Reserve, overturn the 16th Amendment, expunge the IRS, and return America to sound money principles. Someone who would get the US out of the UN. Someone who would stop spending billions and trillions of dollars for foreign aid. Someone who would prosecute the Wall Street bankers who defrauded the American people out of billions of dollars. Someone who would work to repeal NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT, the WTO, and stop the NAFTA superhighway. Someone who would say a resounding "No" to the New World Order. Someone who would stop using our brave men and women in uniform as global cops for the United Nations. Someone who would stop America's global adventurism and interventionism. Someone who would steadfastly support and defend the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

"Who is this person?" you ask. Go here to find out:

http://www.baldwin08.com/

As John Quincy Adams said, "Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost."

A Wasted Vote
by Rep. Chuck Baldwin
October 10, 2008

When asked why they will not vote for a third party candidate, many people will respond by saying something like, "He cannot win." Or, "I don't want to waste my vote." It is true: America has not elected a third party candidate since 1860. Does that automatically mean, however, that every vote cast for one of the two major party candidates is not a wasted vote? I don't think so.

In the first place, a wasted vote is a vote for someone you know does not represent your own beliefs and principles. A wasted vote is a vote for someone you know will not lead the country in the way it should go. A wasted vote is a vote for the "lesser of two evils." Or, in the case of John McCain and Barack Obama, what we have is a choice between the "evil of two lessers."

Albert Einstein is credited with saying that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result. For years now, Republicans and Democrats have been leading the country in the same basic direction: toward bigger and bigger government; more and more socialism, globalism, corporatism, and foreign interventionism; and the dismantling of constitutional liberties. Yet, voters continue to think that they are voting for "change" when they vote for a Republican or Democrat. This is truly insane!

Take a look at the recent $850+ billion Wall Street bailout: both John McCain and Barack Obama endorsed and lobbied for it. Both McCain and Obama will continue to bail out these international banksters on the backs of the American taxpayers. Both McCain and Obama support giving illegal aliens amnesty and a path to citizenship. In the debate this past Tuesday night, both McCain and Obama expressed support for sending U.S. forces around the world for "peacekeeping" purposes. They also expressed support for sending combat forces against foreign countries even if those countries do not pose a threat to the United States. Neither Obama nor McCain will do anything to stem the tide of a burgeoning police state or a mushrooming New World Order. Both Obama and McCain support NAFTA and similar "free trade" deals. Neither candidate will do anything to rid America of the Federal Reserve, or work to eliminate the personal income tax, or disband the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). Both Obama and McCain support the United Nations. So, pray tell, how is a vote for either McCain or Obama not a wasted vote?

But, back to the "he cannot win" argument: to vote for John McCain is to vote for a man who cannot win. Yes, I am saying it here and now: John McCain cannot win this election. The handwriting is on the wall. The Fat Lady is singing. It is all over. Finished. John McCain cannot win.

With only three weeks before the election, Barack Obama is pulling away. McCain has already pulled his campaign out of Michigan. In other key battleground states, McCain is slipping fast. He was ahead in Missouri; now it is a toss-up or leaning to Obama. A couple of weeks ago, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida were all leaning towards McCain, or at least toss-up states. Now, they are all leaning to Obama. Even the longtime GOP bellwether state of Indiana is moving toward Obama. In addition, new voter registrations are at an all-time high, and few of them are registering as Republicans. In fact, the Republican Party now claims only around 25% of the electorate, and Independents are increasingly leaning toward Obama.

Ladies and gentlemen, Barack Obama is headed for an electoral landslide victory over John McCain. John McCain can no more beat Barack Obama than Bob Dole could beat Bill Clinton.

I ask, therefore, Are not conservatives and Christians who vote for John McCain guilty of the same thing that they accuse people who vote for third party candidates of doing? Are they not voting for someone who cannot win? Indeed, they are. In fact, conservatives and Christians who vote for John McCain are not only voting for a man who cannot win, they are voting for a man who does not share their own beliefs and principles. If this is not insanity, nothing is!

So, why not (for once in your life, perhaps) cast a vote purely for principle! Vote for someone who is truly pro-life. Someone who would quickly secure our nation's borders, and end the invasion of our country by illegal aliens. Someone who would, on his first day in office, release Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean and fire U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton. Someone who would immediately, upon assuming office, begin leading the charge to dismantle the Federal Reserve, overturn the 16th Amendment, expunge the IRS, and return America to sound money principles. Someone who would get the US out of the UN. Someone who would stop spending billions and trillions of dollars for foreign aid. Someone who would prosecute the Wall Street bankers who defrauded the American people out of billions of dollars. Someone who would work to repeal NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT, the WTO, and stop the NAFTA superhighway. Someone who would say a resounding "No" to the New World Order. Someone who would stop using our brave men and women in uniform as global cops for the United Nations. Someone who would stop America's global adventurism and interventionism. Someone who would steadfastly support and defend the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

"Who is this person?" you ask. Go here to find out:

http://www.baldwin08.com/

As John Quincy Adams said, "Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost."

Peruse

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Barack_Obama

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden

to educate yourself about BO and JB before November.

Peruse

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_John_McCain

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin

to educate yourself about JM and SP before November.

And don't forget to VOTE !!!!

REMEMBER THIS?

During the presidential forum at Rick Warren's California megachurch, John McCain was asked to name the "three wisest people" he would "rely heavily on" if elected president. McCain chose Gen. David Petraeus; former eBay CEO Meg Whitman, one of his economic advisers; and Rep. JOHN LEWIS (D-Ga.), a leading figure in the civil rights movement.

(This came as a great surpise to Lewis,and even though McCain has now repeatedly cited Lewis as a role model and potential adviser, McCain has not established a relationship with the Georgia Democrat in the 22 years they have served in Congress together. At the time of McCain's for many years without any contact intiated by McCain.)

_______________________________________

Civil rights icon, John Lewis, a Democratic congressman from Georgia who has endorsed Obama, pointed to “the negative tone of the McCain-Palin campaign,”
Lewis compared Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) to George Wallace.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"George Wallace never threw a bomb," Lewis noted. "He never fired a gun, but he created the climate and the conditions that encouraged vicious attacks against innocent Americans who were simply trying to exercise their constitutional rights. Because of this atmosphere of hate, four little girls were killed on Sunday morning when a church was bombed in Birmingham, Alabama."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The full Lewis statement, titled
“Rep. John Lewis On Hostility of McCain-Palin Campaign,” reads:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“As one who was a victim of violence and hate during the height of the Civil Rights Movement, I am deeply disturbed by the negative tone of the McCain-Palin campaign. What I am seeing reminds me too much of another destructive period in American history. Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin are sowing the seeds of hatred and division, and there is no need for this hostility in our political discourse."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Even today, McCain is usiing Lewis as one of his issues- this is from McCain's website.

On Civil Rights:
In the summer of 1966, . JOHN LEWIS WAS ONE OF THE BRAVEST OF THOSE WHO STAYED TRUE TO THE FAITH, THEY COULDN'T SCARE THE COURAGE OUT OF HIM. THEY COULDN'T BEAT IT OUT OF HIM EITHER.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/John_McCain_Civil_Rights.htm

Persiflage wrote-
"In the mean time, Sarah Palin is finally outed as the manipulative little power monger that she always seemed to be."

The bipartisan legislative investigators in Alaska has concluded the she abused her woer, and violated the public trust and found her in violation of ethics standards.

The GOP reaction is to ignore this and hopes it goes away.
Palin hopes to set the tone for the next week's news cycle by dropping the contrived Obama/Terrorist connection, and is turning her stump to an issue that is at the top of everyone's mind now.

Is it the ECONOMY?
Nooo
How about ...the financial meltdown??

Noooo......

Is there another divisive polarizing issue she could lock onto and distrat the american voter with- while coalescing the mob into one cohesive slathering whole again?
YOU BETCHA!

You gotta keep inflaming those passions- keep people angry and too distracted to ask for answers for real problems-
abortion.

thaaaat's right- that old chestnut-

"Tell people what they want to hear; give them simple solutions to complex problems, enemies on whom they can blame their discontents." - Nazi propaganda minister, Joseph Goebbels.

See in the news McCain shouted down by his own constituents in Wisconson - when he dared refer to Obama as a decent man. Not only are voters vastly underinformed about the candidates, they just plain believe what they want to believe, and evidence to the contrary be damned.

What goes around comes around - when you set the dogs of hell loose with your own pit bull, they will turn on you, the minute you stop showing your fangs and decide inadvisedly to take a break from being 'the biggest, meanest dog on the block'.

He is traveling the all-white, ultra-conservative circuit in the frozen North.....and these folks are very well armed. This part of the country offers a particularly virulent sub-species of McCainite.

The Aryan militia types and white supremists are not necessarily found exclusively down South. They often prefer the frozen tundra and high mountain passes of the North and West. It is worrisome that some of these folks have an extremely dangerous mindset and are very well organized. This is the environment that spawned Timothy McVeigh, among other like-minded anti-social types.

In the mean time, Sarah Palin it finally outed as the manipulative little power monger that she always seemed to be. She is far more Bush-like than the once decent John McCain could ever be.
He shot himself in the foot with that selection, and now he's reaping the whirlwind.

There is only one answer to all of this, a good Wiccan spell cast over the mouths of the candidates and their supporters!!!! Or maybe the distribution of holy water and/or rosaries. They also have power to heal wagging tongues.

It's really very simple. If you are voting for somebody, you don't care about his/her associations. If you are not voting for somebody, their associations are all bad, anyway.

At least, that's what all the posts here say.

I am concerned that McCain and Palin is inciting race, into this election.
Some unstable person could see this as an excuse to harm someone.
There is so much hate spilling out and people demanding more attacks by McCain,it is like a mob.
I saw McCain trying to calm someone down that was going too far,this person was saying, hateful things about Obama.
These are scary, religious conservatives.
It is turning people off and voters may stay home.

I remember when the pro lifer movement began, abortion clinics,were blown up,people were attacked or murdered in the name of God.
These pro actives told people they were doing Gods work.
It is not a stretch to see how racism could get out of control, with all this rhetoric being repeated over and over.

I think Palin did too good of a job. She is believable. She is a pro lifer.

These conservatives claim to be christians.
This is like a battle of good over evil and unfortunately, they are convinced Obama is evil.

Obama is a black man,a graduate of Harvard Law School and a respected United States Senator.
He and his wife have served their community to try to make a difference.
He is not a terrorist and this is an outrage.
McCain has served as well and wants to make a difference.
This is sad, I do believe McCain is not comfortable with the Campaign's stategy of personal attacks and we can see the results.
People are now behaving like an angry lynch mob.

I am concerned that the base or the branch of the Envangelical movement is out of control.
This base has been pro active for some time and are embedded in our political system.
In fact, they are lobbyist that influence our laws.
We now have three parties in America.
The Republicans, The Democrats and the Religious Right Republicans.
This base is a one issue group, they support only Pro life candidates.

Here we are in the middle of the worst crisis in the country and not one conservative has mentioned Bush's name, as the one
in charge for 8 years, He was the decider.
I think it is because he is Pro life and that is all the care about.
We could be in bread lines and homeless and this is their main concern.
That in itself is incrediable.
Hello out there. God is not a Republican.

The supernasty negative campaigning that has been coming out of the McCain camp seems to be backfiring.
I saw some of the old McCain that I used ot have some degree of respect for defending Obama- I am hoping it is not just a ploy, and strongly suspect it is-
but it was nice to see the old McCain tonight demonstrating some honor.

So, the news tonight is Steven Branchflower's findings on the Troopergate Investigation where Palin was accused of ethics violations.

The legislative board (a bi-partisan board which had Palin's full co-operation until she was nominated as VP- at whch the she has stonewalled the ongoing and pre-nominative inquiry)
found that ,under the Executive Branch Ethics Act- Plain has abused her power as Gov- and violated the trust of the public.

While, it is legal for her to fire anyone she deems deserving- this was not what the inquiry was concerned with.

It was the impermissable exertion of pressure by Palin, her husband, and Top Aides placed on subordinates to fire Wooten, creating a conflict of interest in her subordiinates who had the choice to either please their boss- or face her displeasure.

The extensive documented evidence (many recorded phone calls on record)is not disputed , and Todd Palin has admitted to and conceded the facts of the evidence's credibility.

Palin's defense that Wooten was a real threat to the safety of her and her family, and (so far unproven)allegations that he made a death threat to her father, and tasered his 10 year old stepson, was repsonded to by Branchflower.

He found the threat not a credible defense, because Palin dismissed her own security detail soon after she became Gov- from both Anchorage and Juneau and finds it to be inconsistent if she were really worried about the safety of her family.

He also stated that, if anything, getting Wooten fired would increase the potential threat.
And that this challenges the basis of Palin's reasons for exercising that firing.

Her abuse of power, and violation of ethics and public trust are a violation of law, and punishable by censure or theoretically impeachment, which, in a republican controlled legislature seems unlikely.

Palin is found to have abused her power as Governor and the trust of the public.

Daniel, Daniel, Daniel,

from wikipedia:

Parties in presidential contention

"Further information: Political parties in the United States (and each one has their mascots, buttons, signs, printed shirts and colored panties).

Each of five parties shares a degree of national attention by attaining the mathematical possibility of its nominee becoming President of the United States -- i.e., having ballot status for its presidential candidate in states whose collective total is at least half of the Electoral-College votes -- in the U.S. presidential election, 2008.

Democratic Party (1828 modern, 1792 historic)
Republican Party (1854)
Libertarian Party (1971)
Constitution Party (1992)
Green Party (1996)

Other parties that have nominated candidates in recent elections.

These parties have offered candidates in recent elections, but did not in 2004, and they do not have ballot status in enough states in 2008 to win the presidency. Some do not have presidential candidates, but for other offices only.

This is an incomplete list, which may never be able to satisfy certain standards for completeness. You can help by expanding it.

America First Party (2002)
Boston Tea Party (2006)
Centrist Party (United States) (2006)
Independence Party of America (2007)
Jefferson Republican Party (2006, 2008)
Moderate Party (2006)
Marijuana Party (2002)
Party for Socialism and Liberation (2004)
Peace and Freedom Party (1967) - active primarily in California
Prohibition Party (1867)
Reform Party of the United States of America (1995) - currently divided into two factions both using the name of the "Reform Party"
Socialist Equality Party (1953)
Socialist Party USA (1973)
Socialist Workers Party (1938)
United States Pacifist Party (1983)[1]
Workers World Party (1959)
Working Families Party (1998)"

I hope Lorne or his people peek in here and see that sugestion- that is brilliant GREATSCOTT-
Tina has already stated that she will not parody Palin, I believe she is not going to appear on the show.and I think it's a good idea- while Joe Cocker had good humor about it-
I don't believe we could count on such (future)joviality from Palin.
Amy Poehler stood side by side with Hillary in their matching pantsuits-

But I think there is another reason behind it- let Sarah be Sarah-
An SNL crowd is not the choir she is used to speaking in front of- the writers will write a cute little speech for her- but a side by side with Tina may give her a bump in likability by asscociation also-

And you know in this youtube age- the GOP would use that clip over and over again-
And a toned down kinder clip of Tina would be in the cyberspehre-
I think Tina wants to keep this particular legacy consistent-

I have MSNBC on (because I'm a DEMOCRAT lib)
although I switch onto FOX alot these days-

and they just showed the SNL clip from Thursday-
Probably by now everyone has seen this- McCain meandering aimlessly into camera-
the first video it is 4:20seconds in-
but if you click on the lower vid- it starts at that point-

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_pl80

Astoria wrote: "An interesting pop culture side note- Palin pushed her way into Saturday Night Live, by publicly expressing a desire to be invited this Saturday- That is pretty clever- how can Tina Fey parody her with her standing next to her?"

How soon they forget John Belushi's masterful side by side parody of Joe Cocker. One can only hope that Lorne Michaels hasn't lost his courage over the last 30 years. Better yet - maybe he could bring back Dana Carvey to do a Church Lady meets Sister Sarah skit.

Who is Barack Obama really? Could it be --- Satan? ;-)

McCain and Palin are creating a dangerous atmosphere for Obama. People are screaming comments like traitor, treason, socialist, communist, terrorist, kill him, and off with his head at their rallies. Do they (McCain and Palin)really believe Obama is a terrorist? Or are they resorting to the last tactic that they have, subliminally introducing race into politics to achieve a political goal? Someone out there could be planning to assasinate Obama as I write this blog because of the "HATE" campaign they are running now. McCain and Palin are dividing the country right now and I fear the 60's era paranoia has returned. This was the same atmosphere that got Kennedy and King killed. Do we really want this to happen again? If Obama was a terrorist in these post 911 times. Wouldn't the FBI and Homeland Security be investigating him and have him on their terror watch list? America wake up!!! McCain and Palin are not Federal agents. They are willing to destroy this country to win an election when our economy is in the worst crisis it has been in a long time. People are mentally unstable. And a Race war is right around the corner. I thought America was better than this.

CCNL

There are two parties: the Republican Party and the Democratic Party, and we are asked to choose the candidate of one or the other. So? What's your point?

John Dominic Crossan has got to be a Chicago democrat and I'd bet money on it. Of course the man is a social liberal, and no mistake....ex-priests always are!

What can we say about a person that uses a former priest & Chicago democrat as their spiritual role model and exemplar of exegetical truth?

Why, they must harbor the secret longings of closet democrat, at the very least! I say take courage, come out of the closet, and vote with your spiritual mentor.....that way you'll have much in common and much to discuss in the coming 'life in the spirit'.

Without wars, politics, stock markets and religion, things could get pretty boring in the hereafter.....

20 bucks sez Crossan is voting Obama in '08!!

Astoria, Astoria, Astoria,

Hmmm, suffering from the Three B Syndrome again? i.e. being Bred, Born and Brainwashed in the ways of the Democratic Party. No doubt you have BO signs in your front yard.

And making fun of an AARPie!! So "unChristian" of you!!

Don't you be thinkin 'bout Daniel's panties LIB-
Daniel- Yes, good ones- but Elly May had a streak of kindness in her towards animal...

Hi Persiflage- we have Ayers and now the whisper campaign to try to try to discredit the voter registration by an incredible coincidence- in the 6 key swing states that are leaning towards Obama- and could be the electoral votes that win the election.

An interesting pop culture side note-
Palin pushed her way into Saturday Night Live, by publicly expressing a desire to be invited this Saturday-
That is pretty clever- how can Tina Fey parody her with her standing next to her?
It seems pretty cunningly played-
If the Palindrone could get through a weeks news cycle without any Tina parodies- I guess that would seem like a small victory-
But SNL- threw together a special which they aired tonight- satirizing the debate- and announcing they will air another special next Thursday-

LIB, Are you one of those grumpy old guys that yells at the kids to get off your lawn and keeps all their balls?
I bet you are- come on- admit it- you are a McPalin drone clone- I bet you're watching FOX right now.

Daniel, Daniel, Daniel,

Your Democratic Party panties are showing.

Peruse
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Barack_Obama to educate yourself about BO before November.

Peruse
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain and
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_John_McCain to educate yourself about JM before November.

And don't forget to vote !!!!

The crisis ended here, so now it's time to kill. Get ready for the killing in the morning as Wall Street quakes trying to make up lost money. There are lots of good deals and people are panic struck. If today was any sign, be prepared for a rougher ride ahead. You can keep your house or your money. You have a mortgage, so you can't keep both. It's the same with any investment. Both will be losing value for some time to come. Two trillion in lost retirement funds means big money troubles. People are worried about who is going to run their educated tribe as they are ready to get kicked right in the head. It's not solving the problem. The way things are looking, I'm not sure this site will be here in 24 hours. The paper will be there. Happy trails and keep getting paid.

I think we have to acknowledge that for the essentially authoritarian kind of personality types that gravitate to republican agenda, and presently to the unstable Bonny and Clyde style duo represented by McCain/Palin, political views anywhere to the left of Ghengis Khan would be identified as radical left-wing anarchism.

From this dubious vantage point, our neocon brethren can extrapolate and spin anything from full blown socialism to the imminent overthrow of the government - should we elect these damn socialist/anarchists. How many times have we heard Obama called a socialist? This is the rant of a paranoid mind, and nothing more.

This thinking goes to type - rigid, doctrinaire ideas and ideologies appeal to these folks. They couldn't get enough of it with George Bush and Dick Cheney, and they're panting for more.

While this is a completely skewed world view, it does seem to run rampant among right wingers of the republican persuasion.

Thus we have the William Ayers red herring in order to draw attention away from McFiasco and company. Given the 6 degrees of separation rule, every republican under the sun is probably only 5 people removed from William Ayers - including people that have barely been outside Alaska for more than a few weeks.

So how was Obama to know, we might ask? Imagine instead, a community-based organizational association with an individual never convicted of a crime, and from the same community - and also with a high standing in the academic community and possesed of a reputation as an effective community organizer. At the time these two meet, William Ayers is at the very least a notable person of good standing, and nothing less.

But instead of telling the real truth about all of this, pit bull Palin is shouting out epithets about the Obama terrorist connection, and throwing in a wee bit of racial and Muslim innuendo for good measure.

These McCainites are really the most scurrilous, petty, small-minded people imaginable. Their credentials for the high offices that they seek are based solely on their ambition - certainly not on their mutually paltry and bereft characters. Facile politicans without substance, and that is all you're going to get from these two.

These two ain't got the right stuff - not by a million miles. But apparently they're the best that the GOP has to offer these days. When all you've got is a couple of Ghengis Khan wannabees, what choice do you really have?

Astoria

McCain reminds of Mr. Potter. Cindy reminds me of Cathy Lee Gifford.

Sarah Palin reminds me of Elly-May Clampett.

Dr. William Ayers is a renowned expert in elementary school education - something that I'm sure we all feel is important. Obama did NOT launch his Senatorial campaign in Ayers home. Ayers was one of many people that held fundraisers for Obama, but they barely knew each other beyond a working relationship.

Is anyone that worked on the Annenberg Challenge Board of Directors considered to be a socialist and/or a terrorist because of their association with Ayers, or is it just the black guy that you don't like? What about Anne Hallett and Warren Chapman, the other founding members of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge? What about Patricia Graham, who served as vice-chairman of the board under Barack Obama? Is she a terrorist too? Dr. Ayers was such a "terrorist" that he was voted "Citizen of the Year" by the City of Chicago in 1997.

Do you know the backgrounds of every professional associate that you work with, even going back 30+ years? I hope so. Because you're pointing the finger at someone for no reason.

To what extent are the associations of a presidential candidate important?

To the extent that those associations could harm our country.

If Obama values the ideas of a domestic terrorist like Bill Ayers enough to kick off his senate campaign in Ayers' home and to write the foreword for Ayers' book praising him, etc., do we really care what he says he can do for our economy?

Ayers, only two years ago, stood beside Hugo Chavez praising his educational system because it teaches socialism is superior to capitalism. Ayers, who was recently elected vice president for curriculum of the American Education Research Association, said that he and Chavez share the belief that education is the "motorforce of revolution."

Americans have the right to ask Obama if he, too, shares Chavez' view of socialist education.

Look at it from the public's viewpoint. How are we to decide who to choose to lead our country...to act in our names and to create causes, the consequences of which all of us will be responsible? People choosing to run for public service, public office, must expect to be vetted in every way possible, and this is essential to the public's right to know.

If there is an embarrassing association, the candidate should expect to be judged accordingly. It is silly to expect the people to trust candidates, since elections are now bought by the highest bidders and "spinning" facts seems to be quite acceptable. There will, however, come a time in which trust will be a valued commodity in civic life, but that time has not yet come.

At least JB, has one friend:

"Biden has deep ties to Rezko accomplice
JOSEPH CARI | 30-year friend of VP pick guilty in kickback scheme --

www.suntimes.com/news/metro/rezko/1124666,CST-NWS-rezko25.article -

"Latter-day Saints also believe that Michael the Archangel was Adam (the first man) when he was mortal, and Gabriel lived on the earth as Noah."

Apparently hallucinations did not stop with Joe Smith.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints - 313k

Well, I guess we could assume that LIB- except that they are actually human beings.

Jimmy Stewart was a pearl of a man- I have a friend who wrote him fan letters for many years, which he responded to often, and included sketches he had done. One of them was a self portrait.
She framed them and I guess she still has them.
Imagine that, huh?

Well, still- Barack often reminds me of him when he speaks- for me- it is a very positive association.
And Mary Tyler Moore- Michelle reminds me of her.

I couldn't be happier about Joe, eiter. I was originally Dennis Kucinich or Joe Biden supporter in the beginning.

Yes, I know LIB- you're an independent who will vote for John McCain in the end.

We can only assume that Joe Biden and Michelle Obama are really "pretty, wingie thingies" akin
to the likes of Moroni and Gabriel.

Ooops, might want to Google both before doing this. The writers of the topic question forgot to do so.

And "Politically, Jimmy Stewart was a staunch supporter of the Republican Party [81] and actively campaigned for Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stewart_(actor)

You couldn't even think of a negative to say about Joe Biden, could you Lib?

The more I see, the more I love Michelle. She reminds me of an African-American Mary Tyler Moore-
and you know who Barack reminds me of?
When he is talking, and hesitating sometimes- he really reminds me of Jimmy Stewart-

Hmmm,

"While Jesus was having dinner at Levi's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the "sinners" and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: "Why does he eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"

On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

This passage from the NT passes the necessary attestation and stratum testing of most historic Jesus exegetes.

e.g.

"(1) P. Oxy. 1224, 2 v ii, lines 1-7
(2a) Mark 2:13-17a = Matt 9:9-12 = Luke 5:27-31
(2b) GEbi. 1c
(2c) Luke 15:1-2

Crossan analysis:
Item: 113
Stratum: I (30-60 CE)
Attestation: Double
Historicity: +

So following the lead of Jesus, John McCain was trying to correct the sinning Mr. Keating???

And Barack Obama was trying to bring the "light of white" to Reverend Wright???

And Sarah Palin was absorbing the spells of Pastor Muthee to set him free???

And Joe Biden has no odd and/or sinning friends???

Joe Biden has no friends? No spiritual guides? No official pastor?

Obama made his choices in private. McCain made his choices while in public office. When elected, you have to deal with one and all, no matter how bad they are. The business people are tough to deal with. The religious people are pleasant to deal with. In public office a lot of your choices are made for you. It's right or wrong to the extent that both sides benefit. McCain, Glenn and the rest didn't gain political capital from their affair. They lost some. Obama abandoned his partner and gained independence, but lost his religion. If I had to choose between losing business or losing religion, I'd choose to lose business. You can always reorganize with business, while religion stays the same so you can count on it for better or worse. We're losing a good bit of business now and will be losing more. Some things never change and the Obama calls for change could fall on deaf ears. You have to pay the piper and the person paying the piper calls the tune. McCain knows that and Obama can't change that. Wall Street won't be calling the tune any longer. It looks like the piper is now back in Washington and nobody is sure what the next tune will be. Data can't move as fast as business activity so it lags behind. The church moves even slower. It's rock solid though.

Oh, say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro' the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watch'd, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof thro' the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore dimly seen thro' the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?

Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected, now shines on the stream:
'T is the star-spangled banner: O, long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash'd out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O, thus be it ever when freemen shall stand,
Between their lov'd homes and the war's desolation;
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land
Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause. it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust"
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

Politics is full of questions and religion is full of answers. Right now business is full of losses. All you can do is count your blessings and keep your family safe. Never abandon your partner. The kids need you and they always will. Keep going up and growing up.