Religion's Role in this Presidential Election

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JESUS WAS A COMMUNITY ORGANIZER

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Sally Quin can go put out in private for the daily kooks and moveon dweebs instead of this public display of whoring.

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In my bible the fifth commandment reads simply and clearly: “Thou shalt not kill”. What is your view of a nation invading a country under false pretenses and killing and maiming thousands if not millions of people? Is that MURDER?

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How beautiful your words are to me
That I am humbled to a bended knee
If you were mine and I was yours
I would forever be grateful having you to adore
The tears have filled my eyes from the words your heart preserved
For I know that there is no greater love then you of whom I don’t deserve
How great you are to care and show me your unconditional love
That my heart rejoices in knowing that you are a special gift from above
Do not be offended in whence I think that you came
For no matter the source of your being I will love you just the same

Written: By Me

Mr. Callenger, "Maybe the guy trespassing can build himself a coffin to rest in. I'll just keep hauling out the wood chips and the chips will fall where they should. They will eventually build into strong soil. American soil. Watch where you tread and don't tread on me."

Your tone in your post is a bit intimidating.

I was severely taken back by the magnitude of rude, harsh, and relentless hatred that was unrestrainedly posted yesterday. This is an opinion blog and sometimes people do get side-tracked, which is understandable, but opinions should be rendered in their exact sense, as an opinion. Not post with name-calling, severe criticisms, demeaning character bashing, belittling of a persons opinion, taunting, and threatening that so and so will meet their demise, or fall from grace, or end up losing it all, and on and on it went.

I used to come and read the articles, read others comments posted and could take something away in the form of obtaining new knowledge, a new outlook on a topic, or I could relate personally with the person’s comment. But not anymore, the post are full of sexual innuendos, name-calling, bashing someone’s belief system, put-downs, and plain outright rejection based on someone’s beliefs or comments made.

Debating an issue with stating your own opinion and the reason why you agreed or disagreed is a given in this forum, but the way it is being done is indecent.

I mean really what does Pahin’s looks, body, and sexual attraction have to do with her being a Presidential candidate? Post after post referred to her in a sexual manner and all who posted such are shallower then a “kiddy pool” for making Pahin’s looks, body, and sexual attraction a consideration regarding her candidacy.

I had nothing but pure disgust from seeing that yesterday and it was very disheartening.

I just heard Sally Quinn explain the evangelical
view on women, work and their roll in marriage.
It's off. Your are not right. I am a pastor's wife and you don't get it. Someone could explain
it but I don't think you are able to get it.

I find it so offensive what a double standard these women's rights people have. Maybe Sally you should check out Andrea Peyser's article in the New York
Post.

Sarah Pahin uses poor judgment and the GOP makes her out to be a hero!
This election should not be about Sarah Pahin not having an abortion.
This election should be about her not using the good judgment to use birth control.
Any intelligent person knows that when you choose to have unprotected sex at 43
you have a very high probability of having a child with Downs Syndrome.
The republicans are making her out to be a hero because she used the bad
judgment not to prevent the pregnancy in the first place.

Sarah Pahin uses poor judgment and the GOP makes her out to be a hero!

This election should not be about Sarah Pahin not having an abortion.

This election should be about her not using the good judgment to use birth control.

Any intelligent person knows that when you choose to have unprotected sex at 43 you have a very high probability of having a child with Downs Syndrome.

The republicans are making her out to be a hero because she used the bad judgment not to prevent the pregnancy in the first place.

Religious and Civil Issues can be Solved.

Before a Planetary Nuclear War, it could be Possible to Unite all Divisions of Killer Humans, in One Planetary High Tech Science Species of Peace Humans.

High Tech www.com, TV, etc., could spread the 'Word'.

The Supernatural 'Power' of the Supernatural High Tech Lord 'God' Science in Religion, is on Earth today.

Humans Know how to Colonize an Atmosphere, on another Planet. Why not finish the job, instead of using our 'God' Science, to blow up our Home Planet?

Our Supernatural Science, is the Lord 'God' Angel/Astronauts Science, in Genesis, that Supernaturally started Life on our Earth Home.

Our Human Ancestors, started Life on Earth in their Human Image. They were not a Spirit 'Being' God; they were 'Higher Being' Humans.

Our Ancestors did Colonize an Eco System on Earth, added the Species, and Reproduced Human Males, and Female Clones from the Male Rib, in a High Tech Lab by 'Intelligent' High Tech Design.

We make a fetus, and put it back in the female. The Male and Female Human Clones 'in the beginning', were not made by Heterosexual Body Birth.

The 'Original' Peace Clone Adam and Eve Pure-bred Helpmeet Society, made the Cain and Abel Second Generation, by Heterosexual Body Birth, The 'Original' Human Sin.

Humans became a Mis-bred Killer Human Species; Killing and Death began. Fallen Lower Human 'Beings', have Reproduced Mis-bred Brother/Sister Killers of All Life on Earth, ever since.

We have the High Tech 'God' Power on Earth, to Unite in One United Peace Species, or, Kill Our Earth Home.

United Pure-bred High Tech Human Male and Female Equal Clones, Do Live Eternally, in Pure-bred Physical Clone Bodies without Death, on Planets and in Spaceships.

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Making soil takes time.
I'm working a job. The book says ask the guys shredding the trees if you can take the wood chips. They say take all you want. Another guy shows up and he is taking the logs. The property owner shows up and the guy taking the logs asks if he owns the property. Yes. So here is a guy trespassing taking dead trees that belong to the property owner by rights. The next day a woman drives up. She says, this is my property. I said I asked the guys if I could take the wood chips and they said yes. I would of asked you, but I didn't know you. It's always nice to ask.

Do things by the book, don't end up on other peoples dead trees for the wrong reason without asking first and always ask for a vote before expecting a miracle. It's always nice to be asked too. Maybe the guy trespassing can build himself a coffin to rest in. I'll just keep hauling out the wood chips and the chips will fall where they should. They will eventually build into strong soil. American soil. Watch where you tread and don't tread on me.

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For the love of country and God, unshakle the republicans from religion.

They made a mistake, and they are sorry.

We are watching McCain probably implode because he had to fit someone into a small box. An inflexable box.

I don't want to single out any one religion but I guess I have to here; I watch the video of Palin giving a talk to some students at her church. When she tied the execution of the war in Iraq to God, I gagged a little but everything stayed down.

However, when she started talking about prophecies, and then was joined by her minister who started talking about Alaska's special roll in the end-times, and that the prophecies will be coming due soon, well... I can't tell you how much that chilled me. I felt like I was watching some kind of porno, only it dawned on me that this lady who is talking about prophecy could be a heartbeat away from controlling the largest nuke arsenal in the world.

They make horror movies from things like this. If these people really had such a great line on God's intentions, then they would never be wrong and they would know everything. Until that happens, there should never be a religious extremist in the White House.

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ANONYMOUS :
"Unconditional Love"
I love her
I know I must share her
She is my first
Others come before me and she comes before all
I love her soul which is my light
I can not give her all of my heart
Or she all of hers
She is too special to others
If she can see how I love her heart
I will find a place in her life
I will honor her and love her
Beyond time I will trust her
For she is in my heart
There she will remain
For I love her like no other
She is a love unconditional
There is no other
For only she knows my love
Like her I have found all
I am happy and her love fills my heart
Written by: Me

How beautiful your words are to me
That I am humbled to a bended knee
If you were mine and I was yours
I would forever be grateful having you to adore
The tears have filled my eyes from the words your heart preserved
For I know that there is no greater love then you of whom I don’t deserve
How great you are to care and show me your unconditional love
That my heart rejoices in knowing that you are a special gift from above
Do not be offended in whence I think that you came
For no matter the source of your being I will love you just the same

Written: For you know who

I am looking at the Republican Convention.

Pardon me if the whole thing is a little creepy. It doesn't look American at all, it looks Scandinavian.

The people with keyboards and no souls are back. Must be Russians or some other doomed peoples.

"Unconditional Love"

I love her
I know I must share her
She is my first
Others come before me and she comes before all
I love her soul which is my light
I can not give her all of my heart
Or she all of hers
She is too special to others
If she can see how I love her heart
I will find a place in her life
I will honor her and love her
Beyond time I will trust her
For she is in my heart
There she will remain
For I love her like no other
She is a love unconditional
There is no other
For only she knows my love
Like her I have found all
I am happy and her love fills my heart

Written by: Me

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We keep the babies above all the adults. The adults are full of corruption and the babies are innocent and sweet. They are our future and they will be loved and protected for they are sacred and they shall benefit from our effort and our love. This is not like the Russian concept of life, which seeks to waste life to preserve political power for the sake of futility. We live and you die for false beliefs. Liberty lives forever in the young hearts of American patriots.

Peter is an Evangelical Christian. The rest of us are now going by the Moniker, PAUL.

Wake up! What a crock of hypocrisy! The Republicans are SUPPORTING a 17 year old's decision to keep and raise a BABY! That is ridiculous, and try as you might, it can't be dressed up! I'm a Christian who tries very hard to stay human. Things happen in our lives that affect us in REAL TIME, and we OURSELVES don't always make the best choices. McCain was caught just as flat footed as all of you he is trying to convince to make the BEST of this! Once again, he forged ahead, in SPITE of his advisors, with a knee jerk decision, that has blown up in his face! And you would want such a person negotiating with Iran?!?

You Conservative Christians need to ask yourselves some HARD questions. If I'm voting for a candidate that is supposedly holding the lines on keeping up an ongoing (and futile) fight against overturning abortion and keeping Gays from being married (as if anyone is recognizing THAT as actually being legal just because a piece of paper says so) and those two issues affect like 3% of the population or less to START with...then ISN'T it hypocritical that you have a candidate with a daughter who is underage and pregnant, picked by a candidate who didn't have a clue about it beforehand (Really now, if you're into being truthful Christians, would he have wanted you to voluntarily swallow such a pill?)

More so, how condescending to think that you are so stuck with him as a candidate, that you'd have to just accept this debacle and vote for him anyway! I wouldn't nominate him for a paper route!

If he had known, from the ONSET, at the first introduction of his choice for Vice President, it would have been, "My choice, Palin, who is facing an unplanned pregnancy with her Daughter!" Who coincidentally was holding a baby in a HUGE blanket covering her midriff from every camera shot I saw with her in at that meeting!

Hypocrisy. When two underage kids in the South had sex, even without the pregnancy, the male member ended up in jail on Statutory Rape charges, what is the difference here, are the laws different in Alaska? And just because they are "getting married" doesn't make the deed okay, or even done.

The pressure that candidate Palin is under is immense, with all due respect, which is hard to find, she should be at home taking care of her family FIRST, period. I don't want that kind of distraction on hand, as Vice President's spend a lot of time doing everything the President's schedule can't handle.

Don't feel pressured to vote for what has happened here, which is a candidate that is only taking care of a small, few people. Don't think for a minute that you are going to use God's standards as a measuring rod against the Democrats, when your own house is filthy inside, and that He is going to bless it. Don't think, "At least we didn't vote for a candidate who supports Abortion Rights for women, or for a Candidate who supports Gay Rights, which is about a LOT more than marriage, marriage not recognized by ANY one in their right mind...oh that's right, Dick Cheney's Daughter is gay...but THAT was okay too.

You can't separate the sin that way, wake up, its still a filthy plate to hold up to God, He told the Pharisee's and Saducees the SAME thing, and 2000 years later, it still won't fly! Look at ALL of America, and ALL of America's needs! You can't hold the line from your little enclaves, get in here in the muck and the mire with the rest of us, and lets get this country together, lets make a new America, better than the New Deal days of World War II, we need a REAL DEAL to cover life as it exists in 2008!

THAT is the message of hope that the Democrats are pushing, real change, real dialogue, real help for EVERYONE, not just a few, from the ground up, we're all dirty, so let's get the clean up job from the inner cities, the environment, broken families impacts on our nation, our trashed international standing, done TOGETHER.

Its is NOT enough to wallow in the mire the last eight years have given us. Don't think for a minute that if you continue to pursue the course you're on, that we are going to be able to move ahead as a country. If you want to take credit for the Divine Providence that has kept this country from the brink of destruction the last eight years, then you sure as heck better be ready to take credit when you go through this election, and cast your votes for a candidate and party that is no longer supporting your ideals, actively or otherwise, don't get it twisted.

The last election was stolen, steal this one at your own risk, the spate of increasing hurricanes, flooding, drought, agricultural losses, increases in broken families, AIDs, our decline in the eyes of the international community, and the beginnings of true problems when our soldiers come home with broken psyche's and NO responding Veteran's help, we need help, Divine help. Don't hide behind the Almighty, do the RIGHT thing this election. These are simply warnings, something God has always done to any nation of prominence.

Its help for ALL, not just you this time. You will lose everything right along with us this time, you can't store enough money in the world to offset what is coming, if God turns His back on us completely, the time for duplicity is past.

Stop hiding behind the hypocritical mask of being called a "Evangelical Christian" or a "Conservative Christian", get back to just being a Christian, call Peter out, just like Paul did!

If God could see us now, he might of sunk Noahs arc. Now we have Google and the searchable humanity, so soul searching and computer love rule the moment. The real thing is still real and technology has defined limits, while human spirit remains unlimited. Love conquers all and technology just produces more methods for spreading hate. Ot's the same old story, and Rome falls based on false beliefs and imagined conflicts. We are going to ditch the paper so we can all fight on the network over scraps of paper. Joe Kennedy and his pal Hugo are going to give you enough oil to heat your house this winter too and Ted is going to make it burn down with his new buddies. What a joke! Dark Camalot and a screw America agenda to conquer all with all the wrath of hell. Include me out. I'm staying orange and in order here. Do what you want to do. It's a free country.

On a critically important issue, I have read that Mrs. Palin is a believer of Intelligent Design and its teaching in our public schools, along with more established scientific theories. Intelligent Design discounts the scientifically proven Theories of Evolution and Earth Geophysical Dynamics primarily driven by natural selection and plate tectonics over millions of years, as compared to the thousands of years described in the Bible by those who espouse Intelligent Design. Does she really believe the petroleum under Alaska only took thousands of years to form or was it some "Heavenly Miracle?" Surely, our kids deserve the best established scientific education and not a set of “crackpot” ideas based on mythology and religious teachings.

In today's complex and technologically driven world, our country cannot afford to elect someone to the highest office without a scientific and rational mindset, and leave religious thinking out of policy decisions, as intended by the framers of the Constitution.

There is a time to kill You don't kill out of hate, you kill out of need. You need to keep killing trees and you get the daily paper as a result. You get books. It beats killing people, although we have soldiers to deal with that need. Thank God. People hate killing, but the gun and chainsaw makers are always busy. In business you make a killing or get killed. Don't kill yourself with kindness.

Kwaayesnama, I read the article in the link you listed and ths part is of grave concern to me as well"It was part of her energy proposals as well. Just prior to discussing Iraq, Alaska's governor asked the audience to pray for another matter -- a $30 billion national gas pipeline project that she wanted built in the state. "I think God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for that," she said."

No separation of church and state, what politician would impose their Christian beliefs on a governing body of any sort? Very disturbing and very wrong.

The future of the world might be at stake in this election. I ask you would you want a person like Sarah Pahin to have her finger on the Nuclear Button? If you listen to her views about why we are in this misguided war she sounds like a religious Radical. Why was the Reverend Wright a three-month story and her religious rantings not reported?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html

The post by Anonymous below was written by me!

Sorry I ommitted that famous Freestinker moniker ...

Religion is completely irrelevant to the duties and obligations of civil government so there should be no role at all for religion in government.

That said, religion, being the opiate of the masses, is often a very useful way to win the votes of the faithful. Religion in politics is thus unavoidable and for the time being, is a necessary evil to be elected so I would advise Obama to out-church McCain at every turn and ignore the protestations of the progressive left.

Once elected, he should then work as hard as he can to de-couple religion from government to the greatest extent that is politically possible without jeopardizing his electoral majority. Over time we could then be done with the illogical and dangerous notion that religion has anything at all to do with civil government.

Belief in God and being a true believer of one's chosen faith is used by American voters as a measure of a persons character in an election. We want to know if candidates are loyal to their beliefs and values. A candidates chosen creed, if any, is more of a measure used by voters to determine if the candidate is someone who shares our values. Otherwise, religion is not a competition in the eyes of most Americans. The candidates should not pander to people of faith. It's a turn off. Instead, politicians who have a faith practice should do what most Americans do, stay loyal to their beliefs, keep their faith private and only publicly invoke the Almighty when it is really appropriate....Like a national disaster.

Rob Littell : "On Faith?

What we have here, is a bunch of mental toddlers.

Meacham, Quinn, what are you guys, kindergarten monitors?" September 2, 2008 9:04 AM
****************

You think so, then I recommend that the monitors review the article written by Starhawk, Bad Moon Waning. There are numerous accounts of demeaning, belittling, name-calling, and discrimintory statements personal directed at certain poster.

Considering writing David Waters an email today about it but forgot. Thanks for reminding me, I will get on it before lunch time today.

Anonymous :
"Sacrifices are made because love is worth the effort. Hate is worthless. In other words, you are worthless to yourself because you can't get past hate. God loves you and I'll never know why. I don't need to know. I know what wealth is. It's not hate." September 1, 2008 11:20 PM

I wouldn't be so quick to judge that someone "you can't get past hate" as you can see your judgment was premature.

I always make it a point not to "hate" meaning once the initial anger is gone I begin to evaluate what the next step is, never allowing myself to stay in an unhealthy emotional state.

I pride myself in achieving this attribute. What ultimately ends up happening is that I will "hate" the "action" or "behavior" done to cause my initial response to the anger and take efforts to prevent or ensure that I am not subject to it again. This can happen in a variety of ways. My character is such that I cannot live in a state of “hatred” because I truly believe that God will vindicate and avenge me if I forgive those who have offended me, but that does not mean that I have to tolerate anything and everything from everyone, and I don’t.

I have very good sound reasons to hate certain individuals but I have always been able to sustain from hatred and move past it to a place where I will allow God to avenge me, sometimes waiting for years for this to occur. Only in matters of self perseverance do I take more aggressive action but even in those cases I seek only justice, nothing more.

I do believe that the term expressed of “I hate you” should be changed to a less aggressive terminology as not to mislead anyone regarding my state of being at the time I am offended and express my anger verbally. That is my mistake, I take ownership of it and will correct it.

However, I place no blame on you for your judgment, I somewhat understand you thinking, but a little patience on your part would have enabled you to give me a chance to recuperate from a state of wounded heart.

Albert Einstein described belief in God as 'Childish Superstition." "The word God...nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness...the bible a collection of...primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."

On Faith?

What we have here, is a bunch of mental toddlers.

Meacham, Quinn, what are you guys, kindergarten monitors?

Anonymous :
I hate you
September 1, 2008 10

I owe you an apology. For what is worth, I stand corrected.

Hate is well funded. It still loses the battles and loses the war. They are only left with eyes to cry with and no tears to cry. Dry as the desert they hail as home. If you make a woman cry, try to make it tears of joy. Some people don't know how to be happy. They are well funded though. I have fun and it isn't funded. If we can cry together we can laugh together, so we can win and we will win. Hate loses and the good life keeps rolling along or sailing along. Keep your taps wet and drink plenty of liquids.

O'Victoria, O'Victoria, O'Victoria,

Why is it you never mention the problems of Islam?

e.g. What "sayest thou" about:

Mohammed (Mahound in Sir Salman Rushdie's "Satanic Verses) was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/
hallucinating/ plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" aka "pretty, wingie thingies" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/ mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

Current crises:

The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder

Added material for your comments- Ayaan Hirsi Ali's autobiography, "Infidel".

"Thus begins the extraordinary story of a woman born into a family of desert nomads, circumcised as a child, educated by radical imams in Kenya and Saudi Arabia, taught to believe that if she uncovered her hair, terrible tragedies would ensue. It's a story that, with a few different twists, really could have led to a wretched life and a lonely death, as her grandmother warned. But instead, Hirsi Ali escaped -- and transformed herself into an internationally renowned spokeswoman for the rights of Muslim women."
ref: Washington Post book review.

three excerpts:

p. 47 paperback issue:

"Some of the Saudi women in our neighborhood were regularly beaten by their husbands. You could hear them at night. Their screams resounded across the courtyards. "No! Please! By Allah!"

p.68:

"The Pakistanis were Muslims but they too had castes. The Untouchable girls, both Indian and Pakistani were darker skin. The others would not play with them because they were untouchable. We thought that was funny because of course they were touchable: we touched them see? but also horrifying to think of yourself as untouchable, despicable to the human race."

p. 347

"The kind on thinking I saw in Saudi Arabia and among the Brotherhood of Kenya and Somalia, is incompatible with human rights and liberal values. It preserves the feudal mind-set based on tribal concepts of honor and shame. It rests on self-deception, hyprocricy, and double standards. It relies on the technologial advances of the West while pretending to ignore their origin in Western thinking. This mind-set makes the transition to modernity very painful for all who practice Islam".

p.309

"Between October 2004 and May 2005, eleven Muslim girls were killed by their families in just two regions (there are 20 regions in Holland). After that, people stopped telling me I was exaggerating."

I'm broke, so I can't afford to hate. Hate is a sport the rich play to keep the poor enslaved in poverty and disease. It spreads, it is terrorism. It's a deadend. Love is wealth being shared to create new wealth an opportunities for other people to enjoy the blessings of liberty. It's a winning combination. We have to live in this hell, so all these people can have a better life and peace. Sacrifices are made because love is worth the effort. Hate is worthless. In other words, you are worthless to yourself because you can't get past hate. God loves you and I'll never know why. I don't need to know. I know what wealth is. It's not hate.

Without hate, love would not win. Get over it. Explain the conditions of hate and I'll show you unconditional love. Go ahead and make the case and we'll see who wins and who gets blown out of the water. Fire away.

I hate you

I'll drink to that Lear logic. Golf was Invented by men From Mars who wanted To see If man could hit Balls from the Moon to Mars in zero Gravity. That is why JFK wanted To send Men to the Moon. It was all to play Golf. Have A Double and Go to Bed. Wake Up and start It all Over again. Thank God. Honey, where are the keys to the Learjet?

What does Labor Day and Faith mean? Have Humans been so 'busy with Work' for Resources and 'Things', they forgot their 'Faith' was to Take Care of GODs Planet, not Kill it?

GOD, the Invisible Maker of the Atom and Electro-Magnetic Force, has Faith in the Work of the Eternal Invisible Elements, to Keep making Visible Element Life as we Know it?

How did GOD Create and have Faith in the He/She Physical Gods, that Supernaturally Created an Eco System, and Visible Life on Earth?

In our Past History, the Peace Male and Female Gods, did Colonize Planet Earth, did fly up in the air, and out into Space in fiery chariots.

The Creator Peace Gods were our Human Ancestor Astronauts, not the Creator GOD of LIFE. The Perfect Creator Male and Female Human Gods of Life on Earths, cannot Create the Universe, and the Planets they Live on.

Will Religious Humans today 'Know'/Accept, who the Creator GOD of Science, and the Religious Gods in Genesis are?

Will their 'Faith', in their Religious Life After Death, let them 'Continue' their Human 'Work' of Nuclear Destruction, of All GODs LIFE and Gods Life, on Earth?

Eternal Physical Life After Birth, is Not In the Religious Spirit/Ghost Heaven. Even Christians say Humans will be 'born again', 'reincarnated' into Perfect Physical Human Bodies like Adam, Eve and Jesus, for the Judgement Day Trip, out into Space with Jesus.

At Judgement Day, the Higher Human Species, our Human Ancestors, will make the a Human Choice, like they did with Jesus, who did not have the Religious teachings of Life After Death.

No Matter what Earthly Faith the Saved had, they Will Succeed, or Fall to Body Birth on the New Planet.

Eternal Physical Life is for Living Humans, on Planets and in Spaceships, not for the Dead.

I am watching the RNC now- and I am struck in a sad way- the governors from the gulf states,(all republicans) are giving pretty speeches about pulling together etc...

FEMA and the governors are doing an efficient and excellent job of caring for and evacuating residents-

So we know now that they are capable-
and I remember 3 years ago when Katrina hit-
and those poor people stranded for 5 days, abandoned by their government-

National guardsmen were shooting them from helicopters, and we called those americans- born and raised- refugees.
Predominantly african american- and many still living in unsafe Fena trailers- while the billions poured into Louisiana and Mississippi, 24 billion there to(Haley Barbour, the state's Republican governor,
and where have the billions gone?
To build casinos, hotels and condominiums, none of which the original residents will ever benefit from.

While 10s of thousands of the poorest of America's forgotten sit in toxic fumed tin cans.

SO, we know now- that it wasn't that our government wasn't capabel- it was jsut that they didn't, and don't care.

The mulch is real hot, smoking hot when I stick the shovel in and dig around. Then there is the water problem. I have a bottle of water to stay quenched. The guys left a little tree so I have some shade to work in. You have to keep killing trees and then the trees become something else. In my case the dead trees are feeding my living trees here. It beats the living feeding on the living or the mortgage industry as I call it. I'm growing a new tree too from an old tree cutting. Good things do grow in time. Now it's back to the grind, for real work.

I searched the news for Gustav and all I got was political news from Google. It's turning into a political storm. Now we are talking religion, politics and weather all in the same conversation. None of them appear to be without challenges. Challenges always make America rise up to meet them and emerge stronger for the effort. All the technology can't do for us what we need to do for each other. It helps. Good things take time and lots of work. God knows we have our work cut out for us, so I'll see you on the jobsite and if I don't see you there keep busy. We can always find common ground for the good of the country. Back to the grind. Have fun!

german sun sea juicy pets microsoft yahoo girl england

kitchen clean red apple red america tom man car see man letter

england tree speed elephant go day green microsoft dog

I need a new ride. Like the new MKS, with 3D Ground Control. Right now I'm busted and the county will haul my belongings away. Or cart them away.

The reality is that I am mulching my roses today. Fight nice now kids and keep the faith. You will need it and you should have it. Where there's a will, there is a way. There just is no alternative reality. That's show business for you. The rest is hard work and sacrifice for those who you love. Any grunt can tell you that.

Vote for Barack or Bill will mulch his roses with you.

It's politicing and profiteering time. You will make billions off of this storm you devils. Gas headed north of 5 a gallon, Barack should be able to convert his message of hope into at least 20 million bucks for the good of the party. It's like a Holly Wood movie, so don't take any chances this time. Too little holy, to much dead wood. Make mulch.

BO can go to NO and offer hope to the dying and raise money at the same time. Take JO for photo OP

This is going to be big, Martha told me.
No alternative reality.

The convention is in slow motion.
Can we see that play in slow motion?
ITS REMNANTS SLOWING TO A CRAWL IN DAYS 3 TO
5. SUCH SLOW MOTION WOULD EXACERBATE THE THREAT OF HEAVY RAINS AND INLAND FLOODING.
Life comes at you fast. Love is slow, it only seems fast. Have faith in love, it will never hurt You.

O'Victoria and Ahmed,

During your "fast" maybe you can now have the time to address your Islamic beliefs. You have admitted to believing in the paranormal, a major requirement for all Muslims, now how about the following:

Do you believe:

2. That the long-dead Arab did actually talk to the "pretty Gabriel" in the "Gabe" cave and therein received the warmongering and anti-female words now listed in the koran?

3. That Sunnis are superior to Shiites in all aspects of life?

4. That Islam is perfect and the koran inherently condones no sin even though the 24/7 800 year-old feud between Sunnis and Shiites give significant credence that suicides, assassinations, maiming, and murder are condoned by the koran?

5. That having multiple wives also gives significant credence to the sins of lust and polygamy?

6. That the condoned treatment of these wives gives credence that the koran allows the sins of anger and greed?

7. And that Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s book, Infidel, is her autobiography and that in the paperback issue, p. 47 the statement:

"Some of the Saudi women in our neighborhood were regularly beaten by their husbands. You could hear them at night. Their screams resounded across the courtyards. "No! Please! By Allah!"

and the statement:

p.309

"Between October 2004 and May 2005, eleven Muslim girls were killed by their families in just two regions (there are 20 regions in Holland). After that, people stopped telling me I was exaggerating."

are the truth??

Only about a quarter of the planned work on the city's flood defenses has been completed. The contracting scams use up valuable time and now they aren't ready, again. The price of corruption is high. NO LOOTING guys, the mayor says so. 2 to 7 billion dollar losses from offshore oil platforms getting wrecked, just to make matters worse. Don't build below sea level. It seems like a no brainer.

Oil Saints
The New Orleans Saints proceeded with plans to evacuate from New Orleans and headed to Indianapolis, where they will practice at Lucas Oil Stadium.

It's a hell of a storm. Life is like football. The goal is to destroy everybody in your path to reach the endzone, no matter the costs or damage done. Love is a battlefield, so fight the fight and play to win. "What Katrina didn't destroy in '05, it looks like Gustav could destroy in '08," Old Mother Nature doesn't take prisoners. Watch for rising gasoline prices in the aftermath of this perfect storm. Run for the hills. This took God to make, so you can't just fake it. Keep it real and keep kicking the ball around. The convention is deader than a doornail. Saints ride on storms, the storms come from heaven, not from hell. It just seems like hell on earth. It really is not.

I hate evil. So as we see it all evens out in
The End.

You too, Ahmed- I don't know if you're observing, but some of your neighbors probaby are :)
In any case- keep spreading the love.

Ramadan starts...right now.

RAMANDAN MUBARAK - (HAPPY RAMADAN)

peace all

When God is stripped of all religions then only love remains. A God who has nothing but love for all His Creation, not only those of a certain race, colour or creed.

A God who has put some of that love in our hearts and given us freedom of choice. To choose whether we are able to apply that love to All Humanity or be selective or create mischieve for some and favour others.

Love is the total sum of God. Weigh every action against that barometer of God's pure and unconditional love.

This may be very hard for you but try to come closer to it than choose to remain far from it.

Make the right choice based on love. All religions have preached this but men have deviated from those teachings to suit themselves.

Please do not be like those old men. Be the change that you wish the world to be for the sake of our children. Hand them a better world. And do not think that others have no capacity to respond with like manner love in return. The energy of pure love can only attract like energy.

Hence Jesus' saying: Love thy enemy.

Thanks.

I hate you

I can well believe the need for an alternate reality....Then you are a fool.

All power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority and instituted for their peace, safety and happiness. For the advancement of these ends they have at all times an inalienable and indefeasible right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think proper.

There is no alternate reality. Things ar just the way they are and can't be changed. You want to believe you can change them. You can alter them, you can't change reality though. You can try. Clueless talking about certain clues. If altered, it must be an improvement which isn't as easy as it sounds. Maybe we should talk about abolishing more government to save money. We could try turning into Cuba, like that would be smart. You claim rights and deny the church rights. You have the right not to go to church, just as the church has a right to exist. I don't go to church, but I would not argue that they have no rights in society. Abolishing the church will not help the country. You end up with a soviet system and an evil empire. The church has a monopoly and people tend to want to support a monopoly. That's not my thing. I'm just one person with no monopolistic designs. The reality is that people need the church because they are weak. More government only weakens a people more as it grows, until a society collapses from the weight of government. It's not the weight of glory. It's dead weight as proven by debt it is creating trying to get larger. We are the government and now we can't afford us, let alone many of our mortgages. Too many people and too little industry amounts to trouble. Government is replacing industry and producing nothing. It will reform or collapse. That's reality.
How do you reform it and shrink it? That's the only way to control it. It's like fire and there is no alternative to fire. I heard shots fired. Sounds serious, got to go.

Rat justice. Garbage evidence amounts to a case built on garbage. Great if you want a rat race judicial system. Then the only winners are rats.

Master over your own life?
I hate slavery.

Just Curious, Just Curious, Just Curious,

This is a religion discussion blog and you have commentary on said subject where??

Your recent commentary will also be reported to the AARP and the ACLU.

What do you mean by this?
It speaks for itself.

"Don't fall in love, rise in love together dear. Keep rising and shining, for I love you."

Master over your own life?

CCNL - your have lists alright - what else?? In truth, you personally have nothing to say to anyone - unless it has to do with your politics or their religion.

Come on now - your religion and your politics are both mighty boring! Maybe good for oldtimers set in their ways, but not so much for the young at heart! What you do is calling 'inflicting oneself on others' - is that part of your retirement plan? Try thinking outside the box.

So no thanks.....again. We see you have a mission of some kind, and good luck with that.

""Perhaps you didn't notice. This is certainly a turning point that depicts an open window, seize the opportunity.s.""

I get it now, "s" what a put down. Well all I can say is go for it. If you can go that quick from one to another the initial one never meant anything.

anon,"Privacy provides security. It's becoming a luxury these days. Seize the day and opportunity will follow. That's what I call leadership. She can lead, because she is a better dancer. God love her for it."

What do you mean by this?

"At least I'm feeling and I have coffee waiting. Have to hang up, maybe we'll talk again maybe we won't have time. Love to see You again. Stop and say hello. I'll make you coffee.

No thanks, I don't know you have never seen you, and I don't want any coffee.

But if you are a guy that will have sex anytime with anybody I don't want to know you, period.

Just Curious,

"Crossanized" Catholicism is actually quite robust as noted by the partial required reading list for a graduate course in said topic:

1. Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/theories.htm -- the names of many of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the titles of their over 100 books on the subject.

2. Early Christian Writings, earlychristianwritings.com/
-- a list of early Christian documents to include the year of publication
30-60 CE Passion Narrative
40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
50-60 1 Thessalonians
50-60 Philippians
50-60 Galatians
50-60 1 Corinthians
50-60 2 Corinthians
50-60 Romans
50-60 Philemon
50-80 Colossians
50-90 Signs Gospel
50-95 Book of Hebrews
50-120 Didache
50-140 Gospel of Thomas
50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
65-80 Gospel of Mark
70-100 Epistle of James
70-120 Egerton Gospel
70-160 Gospel of Peter
70-160 Secret Mark
70-200 Fayyum Fragment
70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
80-100 2 Thessalonians
80-100 Ephesians
80-100 Gospel of Matthew
80-110 1 Peter
80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
80-130 Gospel of Luke
80-130 Acts of the Apostles
80-140 1 Clement
80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
80-250 Christian Sibyllines
90-95 Apocalypse of John
90-120 Gospel of John
90-120 1 John
90-120 2 John
90-120 3 John
90-120 Epistle of Jude
93 Flavius Josephus
100-150 1 Timothy
100-150 2 Timothy
100-150 Titus
100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
100-150 Secret Book of James
100-150 Preaching of Peter
100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
100-160 2 Peter

3. Historical Jesus Studies, faithfutures.org/HJstudies.html,
-- "an extensive and constantly expanding literature on historical research into the person and cultural context of Jesus of Nazareth"

4. Jesus Database, faithfutures.org/JDB/intro.html--"The JESUS DATABASE is an online annotated inventory of the traditions concerning the life and teachings of Jesus that have survived from the first three centuries of the Common Era. It includes both canonical and extra-canonical materials, and is not limited to the traditions found within the Christian New Testament."

5. Josephus on Jesus mtio.com/articles/bissar24.htm

6. The Jesus Seminar, mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/seminar.html#Criteria

7. Writing the New Testament- mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/testament.html

8. Health and Healing in the Land of Israel By Joe Zias
joezias.com/HealthHealingLandIsrael.htm

9. Economics in First Century Palestine, K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998.

10. 7. The Gnostic Jesus
(Part One in a Two-Part Series on Ancient and Modern Gnosticism)
by Douglas Groothuis: equip.org/free/DG040-1.htm

11. The interpretation of the Bible in the Church, Pontifical Biblical Commission
Presented on March 18, 1994
ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCINTER.HTM#2

12. The Jesus Database- newer site:
wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php?title=Jesus_Database

13. Jesus Database with the example of Supper and Eucharist:
faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb016.html

14. Josephus on Jesus by Paul Maier:
mtio.com/articles/bissar24.htm

15. The Journal of Higher Criticism with links to articles on the Historical Jesus:
mtio.com/articles/bissar24.htm

16. The Greek New Testament: laparola.net/greco/

17. Diseases in the Bible:
etd.unisa.ac.za/ETD-db/theses/available/etd-08022006-125807/unrestricted/02dissertation.pdf
18. Religion on Line (6000 articles on the history of religion, churches, theologies,
theologians, ethics, etc.
religion-online.org/

19. The Jesus Seminarians and their search for NT authenticity:
mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/seminar.html#Criteria

20. The New Testament Gateway - Internet NT ntgateway.com/

21. Writing the New Testament- existing copies, oral tradition etc.
ntgateway.com/

22. The Search for the Historic Jesus by the Jesus Seminarians:
members.aol.com/DrSwiney/seminar.html

23. Jesus Decoded by Msgr. Francis J. Maniscalco (Da Vinci Code review)jesusdecoded.com/introduction.php

24. JD Crossan's scriptural references for his book the Historical Jesus separted into time periods: faithfutures.org/Jesus/Crossan1.rtf

25. JD Crossan's conclusions about the authencity of most of the NT based on the above plus the conclusions of other NT exegetes in the last 200 years:
faithfutures.org/Jesus/Crossan2.rtf

26. Common Sayings from Thomas's Gospel and the Q Gospel: faithfutures.org/Jesus/Crossan3.rtf

27. Early Jewish Writings- Josephus and his books by title with the complete translated work in English :earlyjewishwritings.com/josephus.html

28. Luke and Josephus- was there a connection?
infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/lukeandjosephus.html

29. NT and beyond time line:
pbs.org/empires/peterandpaul/history/timeline/

30. St. Paul's Time line with discussion of important events:
harvardhouse.com/prophetictech/new/pauls_life.htm

31. See www.amazon.com for a list of JD Crossan's books and those of the other Jesus Seminarians: Reviews of said books are included and selected pages can now be viewed on Amazon. Some books can be found on-line at Google Books.

32. Father Edward Schillebeeckx's words of wisdom as found in his books.

33. The books of the following other On Faith panelists: Professors Marcus Borg, Paula Fredriksen, Elaine Pagels, Karen Armstrong and Bishop NT Wright.

34. Father Raymond Brown's An Introduction to the New Testament, Doubleday, NY, 1977, 878 pages, with Nihil obstat and Imprimatur.

35. Luke Timothy Johnson's book The Real Jesus,

At least I'm feeling and I have coffee waiting. Have to hang up, maybe we'll talk again maybe we won't have time. Love to see You again. Stop and say hello. I'll make you coffee.

"Perhaps you didn't notice. This is certainly a turning point that depicts an open window, seize the opportunity.s."

I noticed. You walk through open doors and there is the opportunity. One door closes another door opens. Hold open doors for ladies guys. We need to find common ground to meet on. Privacy provides security. It's becoming a luxury these days. Seize the day and opportunity will follow. That's what I call leadership. She can lead, because she is a better dancer. God love her for it.

Deflag, keep hanging in there, you will find someone one day. A woman always respects a man that loves his Grandmother and is not afraid to say that he does.

Deflag, I can tell now that you are not feelng better, not getting to your other post until after I commented on your first one. I read the article that you quoted from, best I saw it with a different interpertation, in fact I would go as far to say that you left out the best part,

-"She finally takes her eyes off the window to sneak a glance at me.

I did not say a word. I am not even sure I made a movement. I just took a long look at what I had been taking for granted.

I let the feeling pour over me -- as I should. Every so often, you uncover these moments.

Hold onto them."

Perhaps you didn't notice. This is certainly a turning point that depicts an open window, seize the opportunity.

Anonymous :
Dflag, ""Don't lose hope; tomorrow will be a better day and if for some reason it isn't then keep believing in the future because it will get better.""

"Yes with love, some things just keep getting more dear as my Grandmother said they would, so things can always get better because there is a will. She has a special way and some promises are easier to keep than others. Keep the faith and the chips will fall where they should. Don't fall in love, rise in love together dear. Keep rising and shining, for I love you."

Deflag what a nice thing to say. I am glad to see that you are feeling better about things and more hopeful today. Especially pleased to see that you are giving of yourself to others in the form of bestowing us with your advice and compliments.

I'm beginning to believe CCNL has another life - is his alter-ego actually Deflag/Anon?

Does CCNL live the secret life of a modern-day Rob Roy, ancient hero of Scotland and early distiller/swiller of that equally famous brew?

Given the blandness of Crossan Catholicism, I can well believe the need for an alternate reality....

Certain obsure clues are leading me to this very conclusion.

I'm starting to look forward to Doris. This could mean that I'm bored or I'm consuming a bit too much Scotch. I think it's the second thing. Maybe they give Doris her own section here. Call it the Lear Jet Faith.

Doris, Doris, Doris,

You definitely are on a "trip". What should we call it? Hmmm, "Biblical SciFi and Ha, Ha Halleluia" sounds good!!!

Obama and John need a High Tech Science translation of the Bible, to straighten out our Messed up Killing Society.

The Lord God in Genesis, is our High Tech Science Human Ancestors. They Colonized Life on Earth, by High Tech, not Magic. They Reproduced Male and Female Clone Adam and Eve Helpmeets, not Mates, by High Tech, not Magic.

These Peace Clone Helpmeets, started Reproducing Human Cain and Abel by Heterosexual Body Birth, and this began the Killer Human Species on Earth for the past 6000 years.

No matter how many inspiring books are written, Killer Humans cannot Change this Fallen Lifestyle, without High Tech Regeneration corrections of our Genetic and Physical Defects, and start Equal Sharing of the Resources on Earth.

In Revelation 21, Jerusalem the Space city, will park in our atmosphere, and Jesus and the Father of Life on Earth, and Angels/Astronauts, will descend down to Earth in interplanetary vehicles, and back packs similar to our astronauts.

Their Base may be in the city Jerusalem. They will be seen and communicated with Planet-wide, by WWW and TV.

Until then, Humans still will continue wasting their Living time, Worshiping many Gods, and Killing All Life on our Planet, until the Judgement Day.

Religious Creeds, Grace, Redemption, etc. are not changing Fallen Humans. Jesus' Teachings were about Living Sharing Equal Lives, not Striving for Profits against each other, for more than necessary to exist.

What does it Profit a Man to gain the whole world, and lose his soul in Death. You cannot take it with you, so why stack it up in banks and property. We see that in the Election arguments, how many houses do the people need to be considered a success?

In High Tech Science Birth, with Regeneration to stay Alive on Planets and in Spaceships Eternally, Humans can keep Body and Soul Alive Forever, like the Lord God our Ancestors and Jesus.

Jesus has been Physically Alive for 2033+ years Earth time. Our Ancestors have been Alive since before they Colonized Earth, 6000 years ago Earth time.

Dflag, Don't lose hope; tomorrow will be a better day and if for some reason it isn't then keep believing in the future because it will get better.

Yes with love, some things just keep getting more dear as my Grandmother said they would, so things can always get better because there is a will. She has a special way and some promises are easier to keep than others. Keep the faith and the chips will fall where they should. Don't fall in love, rise in love together dear. Keep rising and shining, for I love you.

Blow by Blow Coverage of the Campaign

There's always Irish Spelling, you must understand if you are to understand Irish Math.
You have a spear and the other guy has something to deliver the final blow with, so the weight of glory in Ireland comes down to a final blow.

Cu Chulainn was eventually killed after Queen Mebh contrived with his enemies to bring him to battle. She put a spell on the mighty warrior and he became mortally wounded by the spear of Lugaid. But Cuchulainn fought on causing his enemies to retreat. Cu Chulainn then tied himself to a rock to keep himself standing so that his enemies wouldn't think he was wounded. The ploy almost worked, when a raven landed on his shoulder. Cu Chulainn's enemies returned to finish him off but not before Cu Chulainn was able to deliver a fatal blow to Lugaid.

Today Cu Chulainn is still hailed as one of Ireland's great heroes. In Ulster he is hailed as a hero by both Irish Nationalists and Ulster Unionists and is regularly depicted in poetry, literature and other art forms in Ireland.

Some blows are more fatal than others. A spear has a point and there are the finer points to politics that deliver powerful body blows. So you get blown out of the water so to speak. The Navy keeps sailing on into the future and you are history, spear and all.

"What?"

Her broad smile transitions to a straight face, "Well, at first you're really wild about someone -- 'madly in love,'" she says through exaggerated air quotes -- again with that smile as she continues to look out the window, far past the landscapes that stare back. "But then at some point, some point you never see coming even in hindsight, the sparks slow. But if it's really, truly something good," she nods toward the Irish countryside, "there will still be something there. You might not always appreciate it, but you know the moment when just one spark is relit, there is no better feeling."
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/focus/s_584912.html
I'm feeling no better this morn. Have faith.

Re:Members Send lawyers, guns and money
The bullet went over a 70 foot rock backdrop through all these trees, missing every tree all to hit a person while she was moving.
"The bullet traveled through a wooded area before hitting Musser, who thought she had been struck by a rock on the southbound exit to Neville Island while riding on the back of a motorcycle, police said."
""We don't know him or anything about him. We believe he was here with one of our members as a guest, but we haven't been able to identify the member yet.""
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_585200.html
Sounds pretty fishy to me. What about You?

Back from oblivion and faith in magic bullets

I'm thinking out loud, you know down here there's one thing happening and in another part of the hospital there's something else all together different going on. Later I find out there was a woman shot and she was pregnant.

"Musser, who was four months pregnant at the time, had the bullet removed from her side shortly after the shooting. The fetus wasn’t injured in the incident.

Patterson, for unknown reasons, shot over a 70-foot backdrop at the club’s range, police said."
http://www.timesonline.com/articles/2008/08/27/news/doc48b5f2e6c9bf9151175248.txt

This bullet went over a 70 foot backdrop, so the trajectory would of needed to change. It would of had to of went up, changed direction in flight and then went down and then went straight to hit the woman. If the bullet went over a 70-foot backdrop, naturally it would continue going up into the air until it lost velocity and came down. This bullet would of had to gone up, then down and then straight without losing velocity. It couldn't happen. What I am saying is that it would need to be a magic bullet to do what it did. There has to be more to the story and I'm not sure what it is. I wish I knew.

Fret not, a Wiccan spell is only finger tips away!!!

Dflag, Don't lose hope; tomorrow will be a better day and if for some reason it isn't then keep believing in the future because it will get better.

Sometime things take time to improve. I don't want to be intrusive and this is certainly not the place for me to question or offer you other methods of coping. However, since talking about it helps then do more of that to get you through the rough times.

Good night.

Things could always look worse. Enjoy the movie and thanks again.

The booze doesn't help. This helps. It's like a magic answer box. It's better than Google.

Deflag, Take care of yourself. If things get too bad for you please call or go stay with a friend or family member.

Things will look better to you tomorrow after you have a good nights sleep.

I'm going to go now. I am staying home and watching a movie tonight.

Thanks for that. I am in a different bind here. I will figure it out. A little help helps a lot.

Deflag, “Explain please” A promise is “binding,” an oath, or a seal, basically it means that the person who makes the promises is obligated to keep the promise. So the word bind is used in terms of that it connects, attaches, or ties that person to the promise.

The promise of love is the bind that is a must
That keeps the heart secure within a loving trust
Do not question a love that has been freely given
For that love is a promise to you that will fulfill your days living

My feelings are turned off for now.
It is good to see that somebody else has theirs turned on. It makes you want to live to see another day. Even in off mode, I can relate to the promise of love. Not sure about the bind. Explain please. When it's all over with there is nothing else that matters as much. We have it good in this country.

I'm in a bind and trying to forget about it.

I just put love on hold. I'll try again on Sunday if i make it to Sunday, God willing.

I'm getting there. Headed for hell in the USA beats Bolivia, which is hell. Can you spare a dime?

The promise of love is the bind that is a must
That keeps the heart secure within a loving trust
Do not question a love that has been freely given
For that love is a promise to you that will fulfill your days living

I'm pouring down a lot of booze here to speed up my oblivion. By 9 or so tonight I'll either be dead or dead drunk. Who cares? Who is real? The Scotch is real real. Keep it real country! I'm on a dangerous ride and I know how it ends.

Good question. Who the hell cares about your descent into obliviion?

Is there life out there? I need to know.

Stay curious or don't.

"Happy Hunting"

Like all good things
The end is the end
This old boy is now riding
Alone off into the sunset
I must go
She is a beautiful sunrise
She will go up and light the world
I must go down
For a brief time I saw heaven in her
That is what we are hunting for
A way home
A better way
I am dark and the moon glowed bright
Because of her
Liberty and love unite what is right
So there is hope
It can be lonesome
It is still great
The USA

C'mon Deflag, give us a break. Who the hell cares about your descent into obliviion? Why do you imagine that anyone is real here? Or maybe that's the point.......

You are dropping o's
I am dropping s's
So what

Thanks for caring

Thanks for sharing.

This cowboy is feeling better. Think I might go cowgirl hunting tonight, if I can get up and walk.

I had a vision too. John McCain dies and goes to heaven. Who's he meet but President Kennedy who is having a cold beer. McCain says, "you mean there is beer in heaven?" Kennedy points to Ben Franklin who tells McCain, "beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." McCain says, "I guess I'll like heaven more than the old job." Then it gets dark, because Barack dies and ends up in hell. Who's there but Rev. Wright and he's pouring wine with the devil. They pour Barack a tin cup of wine and he tastes it. Says he, "this is sour," and the devil says "of course it is sour we got the grapes from John Edwards over there." That end this deflag vision.

If you are going through hell, don't stop for wine. It's not like California Wine Country you know.

Where there's a will there's Rainbow Golf. Life comes down to take your best shot and make your best move. So everything works out for the best in the long term. It gets expensive. Better than cheap. Quality pays for itself. Watch your back.
http://www.42idonline.com/gallery4/d/31-2/IMG_4410.JPG

I'm too sore to even light a fire at the moment. On one side it's a dream and on the other it's a nightmare. I was at the hospital and really by rights shouldn't of been. Who gives a damn about rights anymore? I'm thinking out loud, you know down here there's one thing happening and in another part of the hospital there's something else all together different going on. Later I find out there was a woman shot and she was pregnant. She came in about the same time as I did. After wasting a couple of hours of everyones time, the doc signs me out. Thanks doc. So all these people there to help people just wasted all this time and I get a big bill. As if I need another bill. Then I walk over the river to Grandmas house. This is several miles alone in the dark. It all turned out for the best because the fetus and mother survived and that's good news. Now I didn't mind the walk, but the bill is over the top. The EMS ride I didn't want was another seven hundred and some odd bucks, just to rub salt into the wound. God is mysterious though, so I guess I need to go to the hospital for some reason. I have faith that it was a good reason, I just don't have the cash to pay the bills they sent me. I guess I'll get turned into the credit agency or something. Maybe I can change my name to Freddie Mac and take out a second mortgage, except I don't have a first mortgage. The word means death pledge, so watch what you sign. I didn't sign my poem. I'll be sure to save it, if that makes you feel better. I have enough people upset with me as it is. Too bad I can't sell the poem. I wouldn't think of doing that, I'd burn it first.

deflag :" It could go the other way, never be opened and then be burned. I have a place to burn it and something to burn with it. That could turn out to be the right thing to do. It's good rather than evil. That would be the final straw, me burning my good poem for an ending"

I am not sure that I understand what you mean, but I do understand the point of self preservation. Having said that I must say, one I don't want you to burn anything and two, I am sorry that you are feeling that way.

I want to assure you that it is not to late for things to turn around and work out. Remember you are the one that encouraged me to hang on and keep believing in my dream.

Its never to late.~

It could go the other way, never be opened and then be burned. I have a place to burn it and something to burn with it. That could turn out to be the right thing to do. It's good rather than evil. That would be the final straw, me burning my good poem for an ending, while evil sweeps across the land consuming everything in its path. I like to believe that good carries the day forward and love conquers all. I guess I'm a true romantic. Isn't that what America is all about? Worth giving up everything for. As Grandmother said, if we can cry together we can laugh together.

Deflag, "I wrote something very special this morning, sealed it in an envelop and didn't forget about it. There's no fear in what I wrote. It will remain a mystery until opened. As you are."

Sounds serious?

BTW I am not the only one that is a mystery.

"then he would not tarry for fear that I wouldn't accept and love him just as he is"

I wrote something very special this morning, sealed it in an envelop and didn't forget about it. There's no fear in what I wrote. It will remain a mystery until opened. As you are.

I just got wood chips in my boot by mistake. Stuff happens. I'm taking a short break. Love is all about respecting her for who she is and who she is going to be. Love is never a mistake. It's real hard to find though, because it takes so much time to work out. Things all work out for the best with love, no strings attached. Life has a way of attaching strings to everything, like we're supposed to be puppets. I don't think so. Thanks everybody, mistakes and all, it's been a lot of fun. Where's my cowgirl?

deflag : "I'm not really sleeping alone. It just seems that way. It's no bed of roses here, but her spirit is with me and her dreams are my dreams so I wake up happy. She will never make me sad or me her. I get grouchy depending on how the day goes. Don't we all?

Yes, we all get grouchy, and it is ok to have those "grouchy" days. On those days she should love you more with gentleness and understanding as a means to comfort you. In that you will find security knowing that she loves you even during the grouchy times and that my friend is what you call "unconditional love," a trait that few people can live by.

I wait for the chance to show my beloved those traits which have taken me years to develop......if he only knew what his future holds in that regard, then he would not tarry for fear that I wouldn't accept and love him just as he is, for who he is, and right where he is in life. I am not perfect but I believe in loving someone that way.

This would be a great lesson for our politicians, if they could live this life as an example how they would have the respect of their constituents.

Deflag- Are you one of the fellows in your link?

Deflag, Please note the copied post from another article that you and I posted comments on, there is one that was between others posted from you and I that I mistakenly took as your post, the one regarding "reconciliation."

I do owe you an apology, realizing now after going back to check that it was posted by anonymous and not your post, again I apologize for the mistake.

ANONYMOUS: Deflag, ""Have faith in your dreams and someday your rainbow will come shining through. No matter how your heart is grieving, if you keep believing, The dream that you wish will come true.""

Thank you, you touched my heart with renewed hope by your encouraging words. Hope things go well for you at the doctors today." AUGUST 27, 2008 9:45 AM

DEFLAG: "My dreams came true and my rainbow came shining through, for she is a dream come true. What is most important is helping the children have faith in their dreams, because to believe in the future we must believe in them so they keep believing in the faith of their dreams. I am a man, so the women and childrens dreams always come first. They come before everything else. Love life.

"Have faith in your dreams and someday your rainbow will come shining through. No matter how your heart is grieving, if you keep believing, The dream that you wish will come true."
Cinderella, AUGUST 27, 2008 6:52 AM

ANONYMOUS: "I'm just trying to get reunited, so the words are a reflection of how beautiful she is and how special her heart is in all her greatness. She is Special K." AUGUST 27, 2008 5:43 AM

Again, my mistake.

Have fun looking out for number one guys, no matter who she is she is more important than you.
Save women and children first. Got to run, chips are waiting and there's work to do. Actually I'll walk.

Now the shower at 43,000 feet ad is playing. Shower before you fly and join the mile high club and shower after you land. Have a baby shower, just don't have it while flying. Nuts!!!

Sorry 'topics'. I dropped an s, so sue me, I'm not perfect. Only love is perfect.

The ad went pink again. I'm back in black here.
Think orange, it's safe.

It's all about power. Who has it and who doesn't. Topic are like luck. They change.

And all of this is relevant to the topic????

All we have is the present and a secure future. What is done is history. I'll leave that up to the historians. Don't betray your family and you will have a secure future too. The all or none days are back and all is better. Some security needs to last forever. I made a promise that must be kept, no matter what the costs.

I'm not really sleeping alone. It just seems that way. It's no bed of roses here, but her spirit is with me and her dreams are my dreams so I wake up happy. She will never make me sad or me her. I get grouchy depending on how the day goes. Don't we all?

"reconciliation efforts come to pass"
I don't know where that idea originated. I have no reconciliation planned. You must be thinking of some other deflag. I just keep moving into the future and I hope you can do the same. I got chips to move, so we'll see where the chips fall. Love your work. Sometimes that is all you have in this crazy world.

Steel Framing Education
November 19-20 2008 (Weds/Thurs)
Time: 9:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Location: Carpenters Local #2361
1916 W. Chapman Ave.
Orange, CA 92868

Shop talk
The carpenters are going to be steelworkers now. The painters are going to be plasterers too. I saw a bunch of painters getting plastered at the bar, talking union shop business. The guys behind bars were laughing.

deflag : "It's a better ride cowboys when you have a cowgirl riding shotgun."

True, hopefully when your reconciliation efforts come to pass you can right that statement in "present" tense.

Hope you find her and when you do I wish you both the best.

P.S. then you won't have to sleep alone anymore either! Good luck.

I don’t know about you, but I intend to write a strongly worded letter to the White Star Line about all this.

Titanic Camelot

RUTH: Will the lifeboats be seated according to class? I hope they’re not too crowded--

ROSE: Oh, Mother, shut up! Don’t you understand? The water is freezing and there aren’t enough boats...not enough by half. Half the people on this ship are going to die!

CAL: Not the better half.

ROSE: You unimaginable bustard.

MOLLY: Come on, Rose. You’re next, darlin’.

Rose steps back, shaking her head.

RUTH: Rose, get in the boat!

ROSE: Goodbye, Mother.

GO NAVY http://www.navy.mil/

Rainbow learning
http://www.42idonline.com/gallery4/d/521-2/IMG_8601.JPG

My Grandmother is still teaching me. She is still there with us. So is yours I imagine.

elephant ocean house look land joke site yes all sea boat wood kitchen vacant

"Things go the way they need to go and life carries the cost. As my Grandmother always said, there's a will. Never forget that. Kitchen lessons."

I won't forget. Your grandmother taught you well. I going to go to sleep now, I have had a hard week at work & I am tired and not up to par tonight.

We find our own ways and make our own luck because there's a will. We're all just trying to get home when it's all said and done.

dflag, 10::24 & 10:42 post, nice. Until next time..........

I will check out the web site tomorow; I like the rainbow heros.

You never know when it is your time. You only know when it is timeless. You don't always see your own progress being made. Things go the way they need to go and life carries the cost. As my Grandmother always said, there's a will. Never forget that. Kitchen lessons.

Here's a challenge. The guys who saved the world for us. Fearless Americans.
http://picasaweb.google.com/rohdec12/DE413SailorsCanYouIdentifyThem

dflag, "they can't be solved with complacency." exactly, complacency is not a solution because it is not progressive or proactive.

Although, I do believe in life there is a time and season for everything, what do you think?

More normal.
I checked with Ask. Normal is
Conforming with, adhering to, or constituting a norm, standard, pattern, level, or type; typical: normal room temperature; one's normal weight; normal diplomatic relations.

Think in terms of architecture. Normal is tract housing. The better solution is not normal. The design should reflect the personality of who lives in the house, what they feel about things becomes the design. Accept the things you can't change and use colors to change the things you can change. Normal is a wood frame, then spraying chemicals around to stop termites. This got me sick once. It's not good. It's the normal thing to do. I worked for an engineer who taught me about steel framing. You eliminate the need for the chemicals and it is also less of a fire trap. The building is stronger than a wood frame building. It's a better solution, it's just not normal. Maybe the next generation will build their homes this way. I know I would.

Tract housing (also known as Cookie-Cutter Houses ) is a style of housing development in which multiple identical, or nearly-identical, homes are built to create a community. Tract housing may encompass dozens of square miles of areas.

Let's surrender our imagination and act normal. Tract housing is so soviet, you wonder how it got here. No wonder we have mortgage problems. Too many people hate their houses. They did not at first, they just grew to hate them. You should love your house, that's what makes it a home.

"If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I should ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life." Rachel Carson

Complacency is normal. Because the problems are varied and difficult, they can't be solved with complacency. We can afford progress and we can't afford complacency. Where there's a will, there is a solution. We need lots of solutions. We have lots of problems. What do you think?

Thanks for the challenge. I was falling asleep. Let me give it some thought and get back to you. I was thinking about something else. I'll grab some tea and be back.

dflag, challenge, what is normal?

It's a better ride cowboys when you have a cowgirl riding shotgun. I had a little shootout today.

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I believe, no matter what you do, no matter where you go, no matter what is going on in anyones life.

I believe in my heart & soul, that GOD above should be #1 in anything that applies to humanity, and universe. Because without GOD, there
is no hope to go on with life.
Soon JESUS will return, Will you be ready, I AM.
GOD BLESS EACH & EVERYONE.

The Right Stuff
Unexplainable.net - 10/4/2004
One of the original Mercury Astronauts and the last American to fly in space alone. On May 15, 1963 he shot into space in a Mercury capsule for a 22 orbit journey around the world. During the final orbit, Major Gordon Cooper told the tracking station at Muchea (near Perth Australia) that he could see a glowing, greenish object ahead of him quickly approaching his capsule.

They backed off Down Under, Above and Beyond. We still have the afterglow and Faith. The fearless Americans. http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/cooper-lg.html

To Senators Obama and McCain:

There is absolutely no harm, if you feel comfortable so doing, in letting people know that your faith in Jesus Christ and your Christianity plays an important role in shaping your values as persons and politicians. This can/should be expressed without quoting many verses from the Bible or preaching a sermon or presenting yourselves as running for Pastor-in-Chief of the United States. It is to be merely a serene and open admission of being persons of faith in God, and as Christians in Jesus Christ.

The integrity of your personal lives, your lack of greed and corruption as politicians who have plenty of opportunity to be tempted, and your policies reflect your faith in action. Nothing else, nothing less matters to voters. They will judge you both by your fruits, nothing else.

As to prayer and worship to seek the guidance and support of the Holy Spirit along your political journey, remember what Jesus taught in the Sermon on the Mount: to pray to Our Heavenly Father in secret. Worshiping quietly with a faith community is public worship and that is extra.

Wishing both of you God's light, wisdom and support!

A great admirer of the United States from Down Under

I just don't trust a place without a kids menu. The kids should have their own menu to order from. I think most printers would agree. I know the kids would agree. You wouldn't need prices on it because kids don't care what things cost, they just get what they want and should have it.

Simple works better too. Ask any waitress. It all comes down to turning the tables and good tips. The tables keep turning because if nothing else we need to eat. The menu keeps getting more complicated. The spices of life.

"I want you but don’t know how to make it be"
Send me a message in a bottle. Put it in the river and I'll look for it when I'm fishing. If I ever find the time to fish. I don't have a phone so that eliminates calling me, which would simplify things. Who wants simple when you can have complicated? Life isn't simple, so there are challenges. Challenge me.

I have an idea. I got some great Irish music blarring and some old New Frontier vintage Scotch in me so here we go again. The New Frontier is not a bunch of empty promises, although the bottle is getting empty, it is a set of challenges. It's a good thing I have another bottle, the vintage of which dates back to when I was in the womb. This could get interesting. Promises are personal and challenges are public. I'll dream when I sleep and get back to you when I awake. I think better sleeping. I only wish I had somebody to sleep with me tonight. Things look promising, at least more promising than yesterday. Good night and good luck you.

It's a long story Victoria. It all goes back to the old New Frontier days. It's complicated. Isn't all life meant to be that way? Full of challenges. I never claimed to be normal. It's a dangerous ride. A little on the wild side.

It's amazing what Scotch can do for you when it's a couple generations old. I'm feeling better and no pills. The bad news is that the bottle is real low. The good news is I have some other old stuff that I have not opened yet.

You

The touch of your skin is where it all begins
To feel you close to me touches me deep within
Your touch leaves me breathless that I never want to part
It is strong but yet gentle it portrays what is in your heart
I want you but don’t know how to make it be
Forever beside you is the desire inside of me
You are full of passion and to be admired
My promise having you I will never tire
My dream come true is having you

Begin in the middle
You have what you need and all I need is you
To be happy and healthy is my hope for you and yours
Then go to the beginning
They made us strong to last and you came first
You will always come first before anybody there is you in my heart
The end will take care of itself
You will find a way because there is a will
I will wait for you forever if that is your need
I will love you forever
You will never be sad again
Happy like children we will be
You will see when we meet
If it is not to be and you never see me again
Just know how much I cared about you and take care of your family
That leads back to the beginning

You

The touch of your skin is where it all begins
To feel you close to me touches me deep within
Your touch leaves me breathless that I never want to part
It is strong but yet gentle it portrays what is in your heart
I want you but don’t know how to make it be
Forever beside you is the desire inside of me
You are full of passion and to be admired
My promise having you I will never tire
My dream come true is having you

I have a backache and need a backhoe. That's "a piece of excavating equipment consisting of a digging bucket on the end" in case you don't know. I could use a back rub too. You can't do that here, so I'll settle for some Scotch. Go to sleep, get up and start it all over again. Maybe I need a new matress. I've got No Control on. Keep shakin'

I love you too.

BFW, ") Be Educated-
-Know that the religious make up of the United States is evolving. Religions like Christianity are declining and non religious movements like Secular Humanism and Atheism are becoming more prominent. Also Wicca has been predicted to be the 3rd largest religion by 2012."

Is your point with this to show that your Wiccan faith is greater somehow then Christians? If there were only “a few” Christians left in the would that would not make those of us who are faithful, dedicated, and trust in God any less likely to sway our belief in the only true God.

It is like falling deeply in love, true love, and knowing that person that you love, nothing can tear you away from it; and so it is with knowing and loving God,

And I got news for you; it will be a cold day in hell before this American will support "equal rights" for Satanism and out right evil devil worshipping practices.

Bluefirewitch and her Coven,

References to Wicca being the third largest religion in the US by 2012??? Basis of the statistics??

1) Be Aware:
-Most politicians are unaware of the latest headlines or statistics in the news when it comes to religion.
From my own religious perspective, although Wiccans have won the fight for use of our symbol on VA gravesites and plaquards, we are still fighting for Pagan Chaplians for our active-duty service people.
There are religions with far fewer service men and women who have multiple chaplains for example Christian Scientists have 6 Chaplains for less than 700 active duty members. It's estimated there are at least 1800 active duty Wiccans and yet there is no chaplain. Brig. Gen. Cecil Richardson, the Air Force's deputy chief of chaplains, says there are simply too few Wiccans in the military to justify a full-time chaplain, but as we can see here, the numbers show something entirely different.

2) Be Educated-
-Know that the religious make up of the United States is evolving. Religions like Christianity are declining and non religious movements like Secular Humanism and Atheism are becoming more prominent. Also Wicca has been predicted to be the 3rd largest religion by 2012.

-Know the traditions and practices of those faiths and acknowledge them when needed. If you are doing a holiday speech, include all the holidays on that day, not just the Christian ones.

-Know that being religious does not mean sharing the same values as Christians do. Morality and faith are vary from person to person and faith to faith and we can not assume that values of religious people are uniform.

3) Be Equal-
-Strive for religious and non religious equality. And enforce the laws meant to protect both sides.
-When making programs like Faith Based Initiatives Programs, include all faiths, even those your values disagree with. This includes the so called "unpopular" faiths like Satanism, Witchcraft, Paganism, Wicca and Voo Doo as a few examples.

4) Be Respectful-
-Respect those people for their religions and worldviews as individuals and as a vital part of what makes America what it is.
-Don't be like George Bush and publicly defame Wicca by saying that "Witchcraft is not a religion" and doesn't deserve a place in the military.

Deflag : "Dear Lucy,
I wanted to give her something that says she is everything to me. I could not buy it though, so all I can give her is my heart because her name was written there long ago. It's a timeless love that makes all your days more glad for what you have is special. She will never again be sad.
Thanks"

Deflag, of course you couldn't buy something that says she is everything to you, I don't beleive that there is something to buy that would be that inclusive.

But you did give her something "priceless," you gave her your heart. That would be a reason for any woman in that position not to be sad again.

That is really what love is about, giving your heart to someone without reservation. That is inclusive and says "you mean everything to me."

Deflag,
You are proving to be pretty unforgettable.

can you tell us more about the people in your link?

deflag : "I'm in pain here. Then I turn this on and what do I see. More pains. You ought to be happy that you don't feel as bad as I do."

You made me laugh yesterday when you said you read my post, the one where I offered to help you, and almost put salt in your tea. I thought about it a couple of times today and still laughed about it.

But I am concerned about you. What is wrong? I want to help you.

Anonymous, "With Rainbows you find tears of joy, because there is justice in the world. It's rough and tough. Love always wins the battle. Never Forget. Never."

You speak words of truth. I will not forget, I promise you.

O'Victoria, O'Victoria, O'Victoria,

BO, on the issue the protecting human life from beginning to end, fails the "sniff test".

He passes the 20 year "sniff test" for being influenced by prejudiced ministers

Muslims pass every odoriferous/rank/ offensive "sniff test" ever developed.

Can "pretty, wingie, thingies sniff?? Old Mahound was in that cave for 30 days. Sure hope Gabe had a protective mask on!!!

It was all in my head and now it's all right here. Hope you feel good. I got work to do and so do you. Some minutes are better than others. I hear the pain in the mailbox truck, no doubt delivering some more bad news of the day. Got to go. Happy hunting! Watch for rainbows.

"Pain of Life"

I have the time
Full of pain
Shooting pains
I soldier on and ignore it
I forget it and work through it
Work towards the next minute
Back in time it was worse
Going forward is a pain
Some days the pain gets the better of me
So I made it my friend so it would not kill me
It is easy to hate the pain
It can't be loved
The pain grows so maybe I can learn to love it
I fell in love with Jim Beam instead
That killed the pain
On several occasions it nearly killed me as well
Even with the pain all I can do is the best I can
Just keep working and hope the pain goes away
If you feel good good for you
I feel the pain
So my pleasures are all simple and few

Deflag

What are you in pain from?

I'm in pain here. Then I turn this on and what do I see. More pains. You ought to be happy that you don't feel as bad as I do.

Rather than subjectively determining who is religious enough and who is not we should adopt a don't ask don't tell policy to be a politician. Then if a politician disclosed theirs or any other politician's religion they would automatically be excluded from holding office for life.

Maybe then politicians would learn not to mix politics and religion.

Angela, you are actually proving Daniel's point.

"Conservative Christians, who depend in their demanding intolerance, upon the toleration of others. Intolerant and strident voices push the limits of good taste and etiquette, assusming that people will be polite, and let them misbehave."

Yelling at people is not christian, nor is calling them names- the plank in the eye is not pharasacial(hypocritical) but the plank of judging others-

You truly are scrutinizing the tiny splinter in Daniel's eye- without noticing the looming plank in your own.

If your practice of Christianity is truly better than Daniel's, it would be evident in your patience, kindness and civility- and you wouldn't have to yell it at us.
Are you trying to convince Daniel, or yourself?

Jesus ate with the tax collectors, comforted the sick, was forebearing and gentle.
His message was one of love- not I"m better than you.
And he exhibited that love through his actions.

What Daniel is saying is that moderate and mannerly people are being forced to fight intolerant and condescending fire with loud tolerance and loudly proclaim our equality as people-
And yelling at Daniel is a distraction from an inability to address and answer direct points made.

Angela, you are actually proving Daniel's point.

"Conservative Christians, who depend in their demanding intolerance, upon the toleration of others. Intolerant and strident voices push the limits of good taste and etiquette, assusming that people will be polite, and let them misbehave."

Yelling at people is not christian, nor is calling them names- the plank in the eye is not pharasacial(hypocritical) but the plank of judging others-

You truly are scrutinizing the tiny splinter in Daniel's eye- without noticing the looming plank in your own.

If your practice of Christianity is truly better than Daniel's, it would be evident in your patience, kindness and civility- and you wouldn't have to yell it at us.
Are you trying to convince Daniel, or yourself?

Jesus ate with the tax collectors, comforted the sick, was forebearing and gentle.
His message was one of love- not I"m better than you.
And he exhibited that love through his actions.

What Daniel is saying is that moderate and mannerly people are being forced to fight intolerant and condescending fire with loud tolerance and loudly proclaim our equality as people-
And yelling at Daniel is a distraction from an inability to address and answer direct points made.

Angela

When you have tied yourself and your religion up into right-wing Republicanism, and condemn Democrats and "lefty" lilberals, and when you bow down to the Conservative President as some kind of demi-Prophet spokesman for God, when in fact, he is just a plain man,, plainer than most, in fact, then you have painted yourself with the label: Conservative Christian.

So, it is untrue what you said, that I have made up this concept; I have not. You have gone down that road, and that is where that road has taken you.

The comparision of a man about to walk off a cliff, or a person in a burning building, and you are only trying to help them, that is not a good analogy. Because the cliff is REAL, and gravity is REAL, and the fire in the burning building is REAL. But religious belief is speculative, and not agreed upon by everyone, but is seen differently from person to person and from culture to culture.

That is why we need TOLERANCE and TOLERATION, because no one person can say for others what their beliefs whould be.

What about this don't you get?

Frankly, I am flaborgasted that a seemingly knowledgable person like you could grow to adulthood and maturity, and be COMPLETELY blank on such basic concepts as tolerance and toleration.

It is a mystery to me.

Wow Daniel, you're something....First, I'd would ask you to go back and read the Scriptures and maybe some commentaries because you are unmistakenly wrong. There's no such thing as liberal and conservative Christians; that's just a name that society and folks like you call OBEDIENT CHRISTIANS. i WOULD ASK THAT YOU TAKE THE PHARASAICAL PLANK OUT OF YOUR OWN EYE BEFORE YOU SPEAK FOR AUTHENTIC CHRISTIANS.

YOU AND MORE LIKE YOU ARE THE REASON THAT CHRISTIANS ARE CALLED HYPOCRITICAL. YOU WANT ONE FOOT IN THE WORLD AND ONE FOOT IN THE CHURCH. If somone was blind going towards a cliff, I WOULD SAY, STOP YOUR HEADED FOR DANGER...THINK ABOUT IT...

I believe in tolerance and toleration for all people and for all belief systems. That does not mean that I believe they are all equally true or valid. And that does not mean that I will let my tolerance be exploited by intolerant people, such as, for example, Consservative Christians, who depend in their demanding intolerance, upon the toleration of others. Intolerant and strident voices push the limits of good taste and etiquette, assusming that people will be polite, and let them misbehave.

So, my tolerance has a limit. In replying to Angela and others, I am merely parotting back to them, like a mirror, their own intolerance, insisting to them that I AM RIGHT AND THEY ARE WRONG, and pleading with them to change their core beliefs so that they would be more like mine.

Normally, I would not make such an arugmuent, nor have any such expectation of others. But I make an exception for Conservative Born Again Christian Evangelicals, so that perhaps they would "get" what it feels like to be treated this way.

In the case of Angela, I do not think that she "gets it." She is merely being a little more toelerant because I have intimdated her. My intention was not to intimdate anyone, but to teach a lesson.

I am afraid that this is a hard lesson to learn, and I cannot teach it, but each must learn it on their own.

Anonoymous said:

"Daniel writes crap and it hits the fan."

Is Jesus your inspiration for writing this?

So much for your Christian "love."

Simplify, simplify.

After ALL, all that is said, done, believed and on and on....what's left...Just Being.

What's that?

Easy: abcingjustbeing.com

love

Angela-
The topic of this forum isn't Angela's assessment of the worthiness of Daniel's faith practices.
Let's leave that one to God, ok?
Personally I find Daniel's moderation and tolerance of others refreshing.

On the seemingly confusing issue of baptism-
John McCain fails the Baptist sniff test.

On the issues of treatment of our fellow humans,
John McCain fails the Christian sniff test.

John McCain the Christian tells us that conception begins at birth, and we must honor and protect that life.

IMHO- he is he is honoring the life that he cannot see,but is he honoring the abundant life that is visible already?

Does that baby's valuable human life remain valuable after it's birth?

Will that baby, be able to get health care at the start of it's fragile life?
John McCain says that the State Childrens Health Insurance Program(SCHIP) will 'crowd out' private health care, and foster dependence on the federal government.

The SCHIP bill that Clinton signed into law to protect our most vulnerable members of our society (isn't that the line the GOPs use to advocate their anti-abortion position?)

Apparently, those babies are only valuable when they don't need anything- as soon as they are born and those needs manifest, they are relegated to the unimportance with which the rest of us are assigned.

No health care for babies- or children-
Will that baby have a home when he leaves the hospital?

The GOPs have no intention of changing the predatory lending laws that have so many americans losing their homes to foreclosure.

Barack Obama voted for the SCHIP-
John McCain, followed Bush into rejecting a plan that worked.
When that baby is ready for school, will he receive an education that prepares him to compete in the global market?
John McCain doesnt even mention education in his speeches, nor does his voting record differ from Geroge Bush's No Child,Left Behind-

Barack Obama has a detailed and exhaustive plan for our childrens education- up to and including college entrance and plan that will allow students to get their first year free if they promise to give that year back in community services-

John McCain wants to reinstitute the draft- so when that baby is ready- and if he is poor- off to war he will go-

John McCain the senator was vociferous in his denunciation of torture-
John McCain the candidate has not mentioned it once in his campaign.

When that baby is ready to enter the workforce- John McCain has voted against the minimum wage-
and if that baby is a girl- John McCain has voted AGAINST equal pay for women.

John McCain says that raising the minimum wage will put small business out of business-
That has already happened in the last 8 years-

John McCain wants to continue the tax break for the richest 1/2 of 1%- and the 99.5% that are left- can bear the burden of mainitaining our country while eliminating the middle class- and creating the greatest disparity between rich and poor in america in the 20th century.

But this is the 21st century-

NO healthcare-
NO housing
NO jobs
NO social security
NO equality for women
NO energy plan

MORE war
MORE unhealthy children and adults
MORE tax breaks for the richest(4 billion for big oil)
MORE dependence on foreign oil
MORE laws to protect insurance companies

MORE MORE MORE OF THE SAME LAST FOUR

Jesus instructed us to feed and care for the poor
Not exploit them

And what you do to the least of my brothers you do to me-

Most of us are the least now. And how is McCain going to treat us?

I guess that means I better get mulching.

Hi Daniel,

My intention is never to belittle or demean anyone and if I've come across that way, that was never my intention. We are never going to agree on everything so, we can choose to agree to disagree. It always helps, if one can see the full picture and what our calling in life is. I will stand by the truth that whenever we discuss the Gospel, religion or politics, it will be a feverant passionate plea. Also, as we know, the gospel is offensive. Not my words, but I understand it completely. When we choose to go all the way w/God, people will not like us but if we're living out His truths, He will be pleased. Thank you.

"In God We Trust" Mr. Dollar

Daniel writes crap and it hits the fan. You have to make them cry, so you can hear them laugh later. Emotion isn't tolerant, it goes all across the spectrum and spares nobody. In the end the victors are rewarded and the losers are only left with eyes to cry with. With Rainbows you find tears of joy, because there is justice in the world. It's rough and tough. Love always wins the battle. Never Forget. Never.

"addition to giving an occaisional nod to traditional 'state Deism' as required by tradition"

Daniel, that tradition still blurs the distinction between church and state, because it implies that patriotism involves holding a particular religious belief. It also does a disservice to the many religions practiced in America, because it turns them into a bland gruel with no real meaning for individual believers. The government should have no position on the existence of any supernatural entities.

Before you break a rule, make sure the rule needs broken. Crack it a little first, before dropping the hammer for good. Don't tolerate evil.

I've caught hell for every worthwhile thing I've ever done, so hells bells........Shoot to thrill!

the grand schism.

i born and raised in juchristiansecularisticdarwinistic, society i,m not sure if im ju or christian or secular or darwinian or what i,m a mix of all the above ,at the darwinian society i put on the D cap when at the sophisticated club of liberalism and secularism i put on lib/secu cap ,when at the church of christ i put on the lamb cap it is pathatic, too sad ,christianity proclaming to mankind that christianity is the way the truth and life but in real life secularism is the way the truth and life .

with all due respect to the morality and values of christianity , still christianity need secularism (too sad) take secularism out of juchristianity and see how the society survive and even function (pathatic isnt ?).

international human language is hily needed in a society where people do not even know who god is ? is he jesus or the father or the trinity or the incarnation ?

your best bet is the vegetable market where the boss is not always right but he is always the boss!!!!!

If you want to understand "tolerance" talk with a machinist. Nitwits

I Love You

Angela

I have no particular objection with anything that you said in your last post, even if I do not agree with all of it.

My only problem is with "intolerance" as a core value of ones religion. Even though I believe that intolerance is a core value of Conservative Christians, and your posts often have an intolerant ring to them, this particular post did not. So, you have proven to me that you can post your own opinions in a tolerant way that does not demean and belittle others.

No one is asking you to forsake your convictions in your politics; tolerance and toleration is all that is being asked of you.

I am not sure that you understand what I mean and what I am talking about.

There the same old story goes, with a different ending. She can write the next story with a new ending. They can dig their own graves, for I have mulch to work on and promises to keep. I hope it turns out happy for her and them. It's been an honor.

There's your 8 minutes, go figure. Time for me to sail away. If you can't forgive them, use strong ropes and tie them up nice and tight.

They seem so different. Then we sail on.

Then we cut them down and trouble that was on the noose is on the loose.

We do hang them high and swing them round and round. They spin and twist in the wind morning till night.

Johnny get your ropes my son, we don't hang them by thread.

Daniel,

I'd first like to ask; did Jesus conform to those in His days; the ones who didn't follow Him as they believed His teachings were to hard. I am very grieved that first we are told to keep our moral convictions out of politics, when in fact, everyone holds their convictions and votes on their core beliefs whether by faith or by their moral standards set by public opinion. Also, may I ask why do you believe I'm a conservative christian? All christians should live by a higher standard not by the view of the majority just because everyone else believes society is what makes us who we are. I don't agree with that. However, I can honestly say that there are alot of folks who say their Christians and they are making up their own doctrine as they go along. Jesus spoke and most hated Him and killed Him for it. Also, I don't hold grudges nor do I try to hurt or malign people especially those who you are supposed to be linked with (the Body of Christ; the Church). There's no such thing as liberal Christianity; it's black and white, right and wrong, truth and untruths. Again, my life is not structured by pleasing man or accepting the standards of what one may find to be intolerant. If I please God, I will in turn, have love for His creation. Also, a forgiving spirit shows the love and mercy that Christ bestows on His children...In closing, I don't believe that those who don't believe that infant baptizing believe it's satanic. First, babies are the apple of God's eye and they don't know good from evil. However, we do. Also, I believe Jesus was baptized by John to set the example not that He as God had to be baptized. That's what I meant.

Grace, peace and mercy to You...

It all could go the other way and there was a plan for that too.

The "King and Huck" entry in the Slacktivist blog, which I linked in another thread, should be required reading for both candidates. My advice to them? Affirm the American principle of secular government remaining neutral among competing faiths, not showing favortism for any particular faith.

Dear Lucy,
I wanted to give her something that says she is everything to me. I could not buy it though, so all I can give her is my heart because her name was written there long ago. It's a timeless love that makes all your days more glad for what you have is special. She will never again be sad.
Thanks

She's got me ring hells bells again.

We got off topic and Peter is very upset. Hey loon there are like ten million other web pages, go see what you like, if you know how to like anything.

He sounds upset ladies. Tell him about it Mae.
"I speak two languages, Body and English." Maybe he needs a body blow.

This whole concept of On Faith is a joke. It should be discontinued and deleted. Look at the loons who comment below. They do not even make sense in english much less in context with the topic or logic.

If we can all cry together, we can also all laugh together. I'm just expressing my better half and that's what she will be, forever young in my eyes and my heart. Where would we be without Grandmothers?

For Anonymous

You sound like Spiderman.

I am just pushing back against the intolerance of Conservative Christians. Why should they be shocked that I ask them to reconsider their core beliefs, and start themselves anew, in a new and better direction? That is what they suggest to me and to others.

If I disrespect the core beliefs of Conservative Christians, then how is that any different than how they treat others and how they treat me? Respect is earned. Conservative Christians have not earned my respect, but have in fact squandered what little they ever had.

Spiderman and Angela seek to push their own beliefs off on others in flamboyant Bible-quoting arguments. But if someone else suggests to them a major restructuring of their own thoughts, then, suddenly everyone else is intolerant, and their freedom of speech and religion is being circumscribed.

I am not sympathetic to this argument, AT ALL.

Anonymous :
"For Grandmother, Lucy and other caring souls

How I love her heart and soul
Like no other I can see her light
From a child to tonight
And for all time beyond
She is a beautiful light
She is my faith and delight
Love will never let another hurt her
Hate will give up the fight
Love will always forgive
How special is love
That is how special she is
Even in darkness she is light
My bright star my special light"

~~~~~~~~~~~~
How you have touched my heart how you have touched my soul
With your beautiful words which I will cherish until I am old
It brought tears to my eyes but I vow not to cry
It might make you sad for I rather you be glad

You made my day today…….

I agree, God knows nothing about politics. This is a dumb question and should not be an issue. Keep religon to yourself. It is personal. No one is better than anyone else.

God knows nothing of politics, why should it even be an issue. Why even ask such a stupid question?

Faith is personal.

I think that the best paper for advice to the President, I might suggest the CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR. I really think they have the best journalist around. Very thought provoking.

Good can come out of evil. In prison the house of God is never locked. It's only in the free world that the house of God needs locked. Love isn't a prison, for love of freedom is love of liberty. When they put Martha Stewart in prison I got sick fom the injustice. Evil running free while a good woman sat alone in that cell. It is a cancer resulting in a miscarriage of justice. Keep the women first and get the demon bad guys. I'd pick a woman for VP, if I was running. I'm just walking the line though. Sometimes you have to pull the trigger on that 45.

O'Victoria, O'Victoria, O'Victoria,

How is everything in the land of the paranormal??

The "pretty, wingie thingies" keeping you apprised of all that is political and religious???

"since many Christians here have called me stupid and an idiot, on a routine basis."
I wouldn't, but I can see why that might be. I'd call you confused.

You try to think and you have no form. The solution is reform school, not posting powerless words here. It's not meant to hurt your feelings. You just don't add anything worth your time to post or our time to read. I'm trying to help you save time. Now go and be productive at something else. I'm sure you are good at something. This is not it.

Anonymous

You are trying to hurt my feelings by making fun of my name? But it's not my real name.

So, if your aim is to hurt my feelings, then try again.

I think that if you could open up your clenched and intolerant heart, then perhaps you would not feel the need to hurt people's feelings.

For Grandmother, Lucy and other caring souls

How I love her heart and soul
Like no other I can see her light
From a child to tonight
And for all time beyond
She is a beautiful light
She is my faith and delight
Love will never let another hurt her
Hate will give up the fight
Love will always forgive
How special is love
That is how special she is
Even in darkness she is light
My bright star my special light

Words of wisdom are meat for the soul

Thank you

What role should religion play in the campaign?

NONE.

Eisenhower would roll over in his grave if you propsed any other answer.

If you have a honey and money and form and power, you can double your pleasure. Some people are a pain, not so with McCain. I'm here waiting on a waitress. She can turn the tables.

Daniel, "form but no power."
I'd say that hit the nail on the head.
Shell him because you can't sell him.
Perhaps he belongs in a den of thieves.
The lions would be insulted to be seen with him.

Trust but verify

My love started before Frederick
It started with Grandmother
Then there I was and she was
Fate united us

John continued what started long ago because she had courage and loved the higher law for the light
Peace and order and beauty draw
Round thy symbol of light and law
And ever the stars above look down
On thy stars below in Frederick town

Tonight
He couldn't love you.
I turned into some dark angry emotion.
I saw your greatness at first sight.
I saw your light.
Even at night.
The moon glowed as bright as you.
The stars shined from far away.
I took delight.
I knew you were the star for me.
A great star.
That's what your are.

It goes on tonight
Without her I could not understand justice
Because I couldn't understand love
Then I saw her light again
Madness turned into something more
Passion turned into madness
There was no way to stop what Grandmother had begun so long ago
Her name was written in my heart
An inner light she is a star burning bright
Generations pass and family is all that lasts
So we were united long ago
On thy stars below in Frederick town it seemed real going round her neck sweetly
She is worth any chance
She came first and I am last
Grandmothers make special plans
That only the heart can discover
All in good time all is forgiven
They are not forgotten
They still protect us and unite us
That love is eternal we know
She is never far from me
That special star for me
Bonded us in love and liberty
Light and law she is to me
Special in every way
Keep her safe from harm no matter the cost
She is my true love sent from up above
It goes on forever
It took so long to get here
She can only become more dear
She is always first in my heart

WHEREFORE: “Ye can fooleth some good Folk(s) some times, but, not all THE-PEOPLE all the time”

isn't is amazing a pot of "Stu" tells you u r looking 4 a jub.....trust no one, ever.

I told the grunts that I quit voting. They said, I fought for that right. I said good, then you pick the people you want in office. They all seem to be for McCain, so my work is done for me. The Hatfield and McCoys can complain about what's cracked. I have dinner on and I grew it. That's my right and I have a glass ceiling in the greenhouse. They are all worked up about greenhouse gas eating some food trucked in to feed the mass of delegates gathered to decide who should run the world. They don't even know the food has little or no taste. Each must tend their own garden.

The poor warehouse usually has a food bank, but no bank. Then there are the people throwing food away and talking about problems. In the old days, the county had work farms and they grew food. Now it's a contracting scam, so the people in jail are eating better than some of us and we get to pay for the food. The result is hungry kids thanks to failed government programs. Now they are at the convention, most likely eating like pigs and telling each other how great they all are and how they deserve the best. Now they have religion and wine. The poor end up in bread lines and Bill and Hillary are ranting about glass ceilings being cracked. The whole economy is cracked. It's all nice and formal though.

You want to impress this Christian, leave the press corps behind on Sundays when you go to Worship. Act like you are a Christian the other six days of the week, that is be happy show joy with occasional righteous indignation, as appropriate. Don't tell me how many government programs you are going to initiate to help the poor show me that you are willing to do things for the poor yourself. Government programs are little more than an excuse to do nothing beyond warehousing the poor in government housing.

My mind has been changing from one day to the next. I can't even help it, so to ask somebody else for help seems silly. I almost put salt in my tea. I just want to see my only true love happy and safe. I'm the kind of guy who puts himself last. Women and children first and thank you Lucy for caring.

Never Forget http://www.42idonline.com/

Ok, I will trust your judgment, but I am here if you change your mind one day.

Oh, and I wish you well with the reconciliation efforts.

I am thinking about the other person, you, and them.

No need to be concerned. I've been in worse shape and I've been in better shape. Better is better. You always have to live with the fact that something is going to go wrong. Murphys Law. That's why we need to think of the other person. We might not have a chance to do it again. I could have 20 years left or 20 minutes. It doesn't matter. Most of my best friends are dead.

deflag : "It's good and bad. One problem fixed and who knows what next. If the sun doesn't come up again people should still have a good time. I don't worry about it. We are getting rain and I just mulched the trees and plants. If I die, my plants will be in good shape so life carries on. The dead trees are feeding the living trees here. If I go sooner rather than later, the deer can eat the garden. I hope I make it to see the snow fall again. That's the cure for global warming humbug. I had Christmas in August just in case."

I am sorry to hear about your health problems, can I do anything to help you? I don't know you except for the brief exchanges that we have had here recently on the blogs but I have appreciated conversing with you.

You think similar to someone that is dear to me and whom always will be, so that is why I appreciated your conversation. I first noticed you by the poem you wrote, which touched me regarding the person that is dear to me, remember this,

"DEFLAG:
You can't leave behind the love. Those memories go with you and stay with you. Here's from the papers, under a noisey sky. This is for everybody missing somebody tonight, above and beyond.

Tonight
He couldn't love you.
I turned into some dark angry emotion.
I saw your greatness at first sight.
I saw your light.
Even at night.
The moon glowed as bright as you.
The stars shined from far away.
I took delight.
I knew you were the star for me.
A great star.
That's what your are.
AUGUST 21, 2008 8:50 PM

Pardon me if I am being a bit intrusive but you write beautiful poetry, it is a gift you have, you have no idea how it touched me in the depths of my heart and soul at a time when I needed to hear the words you wrote.

So please if I can help you with your health issues or just to be a support system as someone’s who cares about their neighbor "who is in need," please by all means, if it is within me to do something I will.

Forgive me in advance if I offend you by publicly inquiring about you, but I am concerned about you.

Guinness is proof that God loves us and wants us to drive less. Some idiot sped by like he was headed to hell yesterday. I thought, if gas was $6.00 a gallon we could get more idiots off of the road. A case of Guinness would then equal around 6 gallons of gas. You would be better off with the Guinness in my humble opinion. That's Route 66 Irish logic. I almost got rammed today and she was talking up a storm in her new economy car. You are safer at home drinking than on the road with nobody drinking. I'm for higher gas prices just so Guinness doesn't go up. I'm prepared to live like the Amish if that's what it takes to survive the fools.

“We're dealing with fundamentalists... the Amish are fundamentalists, but they don't try and hijack a carriage at needlepoint. And, if you're ever in Amish country and you see a man with his hand buried in a horse's ass, that's a mechanic. Remember that.” Robin Williams

I thought Irish math was 1 12-pack of Guinness =1 (slightl) drunk Irishman!

Deflag- Wihtout intruding on the specifics, I give you my best wishes. Thanks for sharing these intimate details of your life, and I hope we keep hearing from you.
O- and Merry Christmas :)

Angela- thanks for responding.
I was asking for a Baptist perspective, but I appreciate your effort.
From what I know, (as alluded to by Daniel ITLD) Baptists not only do NOT recognize infant baptism- they consider it an evil invention.

So, for Baptists, McCain's adopted affiliation- he has not truly entered into a covenant with his own church if he rejects the basic premise (it is in the NAME for goodness sake!) of inclusion.

Not to mention the depth of hypocrisy (and lack of foresight and bad judgement evidenced) to pretend to have a religious conviction, and then, basically flaunt one's own lack of repsect or adherence to it- all for political expediency.

Angela asks-
"Also, do you really believe that Jesus had to be baptized by John the Baptist for salvation. He's God"

It really doesn't matter what I, personally , believe.
Clearly it was what Jesus(ata) believed and felt was necessary for hsi own soul, or as an example to future followers.
If we take that one step further- and God felt it a prerequisite for the faithful-
how much more exponentially is the hubris (pride) of McCain!

Cindy's sins are between her and her god.

"What difference does it make which denomination you belong to; it's not about religion."

Exactly- McCain already had a faith-which begs the question- why join a group if you don't share their beliefs and honor their practices?

I would us Irish Math
+it+it=tat
You never really know the solution, you just become the solution. It beats being the problem.

It's good and bad. One problem fixed and who knows what next. If the sun doesn't come up again people should still have a good time. I don't worry about it. We are getting rain and I just mulched the trees and plants. If I die, my plants will be in good shape so life carries on. The dead trees are feeding the living trees here. If I go sooner rather than later, the deer can eat the garden. I hope I make it to see the snow fall again. That's the cure for global warming humbug. I had Christmas in August just in case.

Religion should play no role in American political life because religion is essentially sectarian. What should inform a candidate's and other politicians' views is simple honesty, sincerity and detachment (no self or party interest, no lobbyist's interests, no personal or party or industrial financial interest). How hard could it be to be the president of all the people? All people aspire to basically the same conditions: adequate food, quality healthcare, safe shelter, meaningful and useful education.

Whomever (Kucinich) stands (Kucinich) on these simple principles (Kucinich), will be an American hero worthy of the office of President.

Angela

I was responding to your rude preachiness.

I am not sorry and I do not apologize.

For Victoria

Conservative Christians do not believe that infant Baptism is "legitimate." In fact, it is "wicked." Therefore, they do "require" such people to be baptized again, in order to be "legitimate."

Angela is assuming that it is common knowledge among everyone that infant baptism does not count.

Victoria, I'm not a baptist. I don't claim a denomination: I'm a non-demoninational Christian. Also, does it say be baptized twice. I haven't seen that in scripture. Do you die twice....Some people are baptized when they have wandered away from the faith. I do know of a few. Baptists may do it but I've never seen in scripture where it says you are commanded to be baptized more than once. It's a denmonation thing not an ordinance or command. Also, do you really believe that Jesus had to be baptized by John the Baptist for salvation. He's God...Also, I was asking about Cindy McCain (i.e., if she repented for her sins)....What difference does it make which denomination you belong to; it's not about religion.

Daniel, you can believe what you want,and I would rather not go any further with your opinion on my heart nor my walk with the Lord; may I ask who's rude and pharasaical...a form...

Angela

You are not telling the truth.

I have never called anyone stupid, unless it was a tit for tat, since many Christians here have called me stupid and an idiot, on a routine basis.

I have suggested that "JJ" may be schizophrenic, and that Spiderman has some kind of mental illness. When I wonder about a person's mental status, it is not to be mean, but to try and understand what to me is a breakdown in valid thinking. What, after all, would you call mentall illness? When I suggest that someone may have a mental illness, it is not meant to be a "put-down;" quite the opposite, it is meant as a way to "excuse" them.

Quoting from the Bible is rude and pretentions because it is intended to show off how much you know, how your knowledge is greater than everyone else's, even though we know you are copying and pasting from some on-line Bible, and even though almost everyone can read and has access to a Bible.

You are trying to weave together arguments citing references to Bible quotes that most people may not be readily familiar with, and assuming that the source of these quotations is the ultimate truth, when many if not most people do not acknowledge this to be true.

You are spinning your own little cobbled-together arguments, meant to demean and disrespect other people, and then pulling out the hypocrisy of your brand of Christianity, "love," but it is a false and untrue love.

So, you can keep on with your voice of God, and you can keep quoting from the Bible; that is your choice to make. But, as far as I am concerned, it goes under the category of "cramming relgion down other people's throats."

I think that it is very important for you, as a human being, to think about these things, and try to reform the way that you think and believe, because I think, in response to your preaching and Bible-quoting, that your beliefs and your thinking is pretty mixed up and wrong.

Thanks DANIEL ITLD for your thoughtful answer-

DEFLAG- I hope your health issues prove to be of a less serious nature.

In general, whgen discussing specifics of religion, I try to gives sources, such as book and verse-

Angela, are you a Baptist? Just wondering, as John McCain claims to be one.
It is exactly that intitial baptism that Peter spoke of- (in Acts)
" "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. If you've been baptized once and have repented, then it's not necessary to be baptized again"

ACTS 2-
Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, 7 every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit.
39 For the promise is made to you and to your children and to all those far off, whomever the Lord our God will call."
40 He testified with many other arguments, and was exhorting them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation."
41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand persons were added that day.

Angela- "If you've been baptized once and have repented, then it's not necessary to be baptized again"

It doesn't say that- Even at my lowest ebb- I don't try to mislead or insert my own reasoning and present it as scripture-

Also, Jesus found baptism necessary for his own salvation.

Matthew 3:16
"As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. 17And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Angela asks-
"Also have you ever lied and then (repented) asked for forgiveness? How do you know if she didn't repent"

Who is she?
The discussion is John McCain, who, apparently even though he is claiming to be a Baptist- for some odd reason considers the gifts of the Holy Spirit thusly-

"I didn't find it necessary to do so for my spiritual needs."

But at least you admit his lie, which is a start.
Compounding his lie with your own confused and circular reasoning (not to mention deliberate misrepresentation of scripture)
does not distract from the question.

If John McCain feels baptism, which is seminal to actually BEING a Baptist- is unnecessary for his own spiritual needs, that is a BIG lie- to claim to be a Baptist.

By being above baptism, he is consciously rejecting the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

MARK 3:29 "but whosoever shall speak injuriously against the Holy Spirit, to eternity has no forgiveness; but lies under the guilt of an everlasting sin;"

It seems, even in his spiritual life, McCain is out of the loop and out of touch.

Daniel, I've been posting here for months and this is OnFaith isn't it. God in HIS word says He reveals His ways to us by HIS word. How is that pretentious and rude? Anyone can quote bible verses as you've seen in politics or some of the most ungodly people in media/television etc. I am never here to belittle anyone but my life is guided by God's word not in human relativity. Also, some of your responses on these blogs are really mean; you've called people stupid or mentally ill; is that Christlike? You are the one who comes across like you are trying to play both sides of secularism and christianity. I'd like to be able to speak with people in love but I will not dilute the message to appease those who hate HIM.

Mistakes happen. Half the country is a mistake or a mistake waiting to happen. I almost got hit by a chick on a phone driving into my lane. I was going to the graveyard to dig around. I get to the graveyard and a bunch of Mexicans are mowing down American flags with commercial lawnmowers and then I get home and burn my lunch, so I had a blackened cheese sandwich. I could go for a drink, but I'm cutting back. I get the feeling that's not going to last long.

Angela

What have I consistently claimed to believe? (I do not think you understand what I believe).

And when have I ever mentioned the word "liberal?"

I simply do not recognize your voice as the voice of God, and I regard habitual Bible quoting as rude and pretentious.

If you disagree, then that is your choice, to continue speaking for God, and quoting your verses from the Bible.

That Anonymous was me. Sorry.

Anonymous, that's what I've known baptism to be: immersion in water as dying (old sinful nature) with Christ and being reborn (in the Spirit; new creation). When I was younger, I grew up in a Catholic church and was christened (baptized) when I was 4 months old. Four years ago, I was baptized (immersed) in water and my belief and the teachings of most denominations of Christians do not christen or baptize young adults. They may have their infant dedicated but not baptized. Only when children are able to understand the significance of baptism should it be performed. It shouldn't be an outward, religious sacrament if you are not repentful and grieved over your sin.

I meant creep lobbyist. Lobbyists implies they are all creeps, when it is only a percentage of them. I'm not sure of the percentage. I'm sure it's high though.

I'm having some bill pain here. It's not like some creep lobbyists is going to send me $5,000 to say how great his plan is and talk it up.

Dear Victoria

I will give you a more correct answer about baptism.

I was born and raised in the Methodist Church. In the Methodist Church, parents are encouraged to Baptize their infant newborns as soon as possible after they are born. So as not to drown the baby and so as not to cause it to suffer, the Pastor touches his or her hand into a chalice of water, and then touch the head of the infant with the wet hand. Because the infant child does not know anything, the child is not requested to make any kind of an oath. Instead, the parents take an oath, and the Congregation takes an oath, all on behalf of the infant's well-being and upbringing.

Down the street from my church, in fact, just two doors down, were the Baptists. They considered my and my family and fellow Methodists to be apostates. (To this day, I cannot stand that word). One of the reasons for this was because the apostasy of infant Baptism, which is, as we all know, "Pope-ish" and therefore wicked.

Instead, they believe in total immersion into the water. This means that you have to be a big kid or even an adult, to be baptized in the Baptist Church. And you have to take an oath on your own behalf, and not be subject to a guardian or parent's oath on your behalf.

To make a long story short, Baptists do not recognize infant Baptizing. And according to my own experience, they openly mock it, deride, and assume the worst of any church that practices it.

The Baptists said that we were "Pope-ish;" but we got even with them; we made fun of them by calling them "dunkards."

That is Christianity in a small town.

Follow your heart. I lost my religion. I never lost those people written in my heart. God is a busy God and I grow tired. I know who I can trust, but she is like God being too busy for me. I can worship her from anywhere. She might not even believe in God, I'll still believe in her. I'd say take every chance you can while you can and take every vote that you can count on, religion or no religion you find your pleasures where you can and for a politician that all comes down to votes. That's better than the pain. I have my own ideas about pleasure and I don't need the votes. I have the love. Maybe she will find my religion for me. A guy can only hope.

To: Daniel in the Lion's Den:

I get the same notion from you that you claim about Bush/McCain. You have a form but no power to stand up for what you consistently claim you believe. You try to break Christians down on all these posts because you find them not to be liberal (lukewarm) Christians.

I have never believed that President Bush has any deep religious belief, faith, or conviction; even in his pretentiousness, he is not very convincing.

John McCain is the same way. As far as religious belief or conviction is concerned, there ain't much there.

But they pretend; they sell a pretense of religion in return for votes from Conservative Christians. And Conservative Christians sell their votes to the most convincing liar.

Maybe McCain was a war hero. But now he is an old man; he is an old man who would lie about his religious convictions for votes.

Compared to Obama, he is a little creepy.

I would not vote for him.

Hi Victoria, I would like to respond to some of your questions:

First, if you are a follower of Christ, then as in Acts when Peter was explaining why Christ was crucified by wicked men including the religious people of His day, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter, "What Should We Do"; Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. If you've been baptized once and have repented, then it's not necessary to be baptized again. Baptist, Pentecostal, and Non-Denominational Christians are baptized; not just the Baptists. Also have you ever lied and then (repented) asked for forgiveness? How do you know if she didn't repent; 1st Confessing and asking God for forgiveness, confessing and asking those who she were hurt by her lies and her stealing and coveting. Do you believe Hillary lied yesterday? Do you believe Barack has liked about his revelation of Jeremiah Wright's unbiblical, bombastic quotes? Most politicians change their directions with the winds of public opinion. All of them HAVE LIED. And may we ask the same question OF ourselves; HAVE ANY OF US EVER LIED, HAVE WE EVER STOLEN, ALSO HAVE WE BEEN BAPTIZED AND NEVER CHANGED WAS IT WAS JUST A FORMALITY.

Are you actually suggesting some form of mutual respect Daniel in the Lion's Den?
And no state sponsored and promoted religion?

LIB the one trick pony can't wrap his mind around Madison's vision for America.

First I would ask McCain about his sudden conversion in S.Carolina (where the Bush campaign shut him down 8 years ago- remember the 'illegitimate black baby rumor"?) when McCain claimed he was a Baptist, not an Episopalian- but he was never baptized in the church he supposedly attended for 15 years before that?

When asked by a reporter (Bruce Smith AP) how he could consider himself to be a baptist, without being baptized, he said," "I didn't find it necessary to do so for my spiritual needs."

Any Baptists care to elaborate on the necessity of being baptized into the Baptist faith?

From what I understand, is it not the first step towards becoming a Baptist memeber?

Isn't that the distinctive deciding factor in separating Baptist from non-Baptist?

No, John- your wife's baptism and attendance at the North Phoenix Baptist Church doesn't count as your own.

And how does the church feel about Cindy stealing pain-killers from the medical-aid charity group she heads up? (And her husband destroying the careers of the whistleblower and Doctor who knew about it)

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1994-09-08/news/opiate-for-the-mrs/

Or Cindy's (since deleted and replaced) tearkerling and oft-repeated lie that Mother Teresa herself implored her to take the babies)

The Sunday Mail (Feb. 3, 2008)

``As only Mother Teresa can, she prevailed upon me to take this baby and another baby to the United States for medical care.''

Well, ok, so Cindy lied- Mother Teresa wasn't even at the orphanage when she was there- that reference (after alot of press investigation) has been replaced by NUNS- in all of their bios-

But if Cindy lied, well that's not John, right?

Rick Warren tells Larry King in their interview the Monday before last- that one of the 3 times that John's eyes welled up with tears was when he recalled how MOTHER TERESA recommended that he adopt an orphan and bring it back from Bangladesh.

http://www.politicalbase.com/profile/Mark%20Nickolas/blog/&blogId=3198

Lying about a conversation with Mother Teresa just to gain a few schlocky emotional points?

CCNL

Wouldn't that be asking for trouble? The President should tell everyone that their religion is all wrong? That doesn't sound like very good advice.

Why not, instead, just conduct business accoridng to commonly accepted and established secular etiquette, without demeaning or promoting any single relgious view point, in addition to giving an occaisional nod to traditional "state Deism" as required by tradition, and then letting everyone go about their OWN personal business according to the way the Founding Fathers envisioned it all, in the first place?

Would that be so bad? Would that be so awful?

What if we were to take this approach?

Would the sky fall in?

Would God throw down lightening bolts on us?

The next president needs to publically address the flaws and errors of the major religions. These flaws and errors have been summarized many, many times and will not be reproduced on this thread.

Until these flaws and errors are corrected, we will continue to waste our time wallowing in original sin, atonement guilt, and mythical "pretty, wingie thingies" and their mumbo jumbo "revelations".