Readers’ Responses to Our Question (89)

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This points to an interesting paradox in American politics vis-a-vis the so-called "Christian right" and "values" voting. For all of the condemnation of greed in the bible, you never hear the bible-thumpers react speak out against the excesses of greed so apparent in modern America. It seems that only sexual issues, especially homosexuality, merit condemnation by the "religious" right. Ideas why this is so, anyone?

Concerned..
Please see my answer to Mr. Mark.
Here are some references regarding 1914.
As recorded at Luke 21:24, Jesus said: “Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations (‘the times of the Gentiles.” King James Version) are fulfilled.” Jerusalem had been the capital city of the Jewish nation-the seat of rulership of the line of kings from the house of King David. (Psalm 48:1, 2) These kings were unique among national leaders. They sat on “Jehovah’s throne” as representatives of God himself. (1Chronicles 29:23) Jerusalem was a symbol of Jehovah’s rulership.
God’s rulership began to be “trampled on by the nations” in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. “Jehovah’s throne” became vacant, and the line of kings who descend from David was interrupted. (2Kings 25:1-26) This “trampling’ would not go on forever. The Prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalem’s last king, Zedekiah: ”Remove the turban, and lift off the crown…It will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him.” (Ezekiel 21:26, 27) The one who has “the legal right” to the Davidic crown is Christ Jesus. (Luke 1:32, 33) The ‘trampling’ would end when Jesus became King.
Jesus showed that the Gentiles would rule for a fixed period of time. The account in Daniel chapter 4 reveals how long that period would last. It relates a prophetic dream experienced by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He saw an immense tree banded with iron and copper. An angel declared: “Let seven times pass over it.” (Daniel 4:10-16).
Trees in the Bible are sometimes used to represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) The chopping down of the symbolic tree represents how God’s rulership, as expressed through the kings at Jerusalem, would be interrupted. The vision served notice that this ‘trampling of Jerusalem’ would be temporary- a period of “seven times”.
Revelation 12:6, 14 indicates that three and a half time equal “a thousand two hundred and sixty days.” “Seven times” would last twice as long, or 2,520 days. The Gentile nations did not stop ‘trampling’ on God’s rulership 2,520 days after Jerusalem’s fall. This prophecy covers a much longer period of time. On the basis of Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6, which speak of “a day for a year’, the “seven times” would cover 2,520 years.
The 2,520 years began in 607, when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and The Davidic king was taken off his throne. The period ended in October 1914. At that time, “the appointed times of the nations” ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God’s heavenly King. (Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13, 14.
Just as Jesus predicted, his “presence” as heavenly King has been marked by dramatic world developments-war, famine, earthquakes, pestilences. (Matthew 24:3-8; Luke 21:11) 1914 marked the birth of God’s heavenly Kingdom and the beginning of “the last days” of this present wicked system of things. (2Timothy 3:1-5)

Mr. Mark: These are a few prophecies (written before Paul was born) regarding the second coming: Psalms 2:9, 37:11, 72:16; Proverbs 2:22; Daniel 2:44; Isaiah 9:6,7, 25:6, 25:8, 26:19, 33:24, 35: 5, 6.
I wasn’t offering Matthew 24:3 in support of the statement regarding Paul. I quoted Matthew to explain the Greek word parousia. I’m sorry that I wasn’t clear.

Victoria

the average israeli citizen currently receives $23,000. US dollars in foreign aid from america- that includes babies- every fiscal year

As I mentioned, I have been to Israel, as well as to Egypt to which we give Five billion dollars a year, and whidh the Egyptians do not get.

And what that has to do with the question I don't see.

I agree with the dangers of the banking industry, made even moreso since Regan's deregulation, but again what does that have to do with this topic? How on earth does it connect.

final note on the actual topic-

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

THOMAS JEFFERSON(1743 - 1826), Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

actually curious- tens of thousands of muslim men between the ages of 16 to 40 were detained by the immigration department-

in january of 2004 all immigrants were required to register with the INS if they
1) came from a muslim country
2)were between the ages of 16 to 40
3) were men-

no matter what step in the porcess of naturalization they were in-

thousands were detained and deported-

can you think of any other time in american history when a certain group based upon nationality, religion, or ethnicity were summarily rounded up and expelled?

no?
thats because this is a first-

the average israeli citizen currently receives $23,000. US dollars in foreign aid from america- that includes babies- every fiscal year

can you imagine if we did that with our own citizens?

from the jewish blog Jewcy-

TAGS: Bahrain Houda Nonoo Houda Nonoo:
The arab world's first jewish envoy The Arab world has its first Jewish Envoy. It's a woman no less. Thank the tiny state of Bahrain:

The selection of Houda Nonoo was made by decree on Wednesday and reported by local media in the Gulf Arab kingdom on Friday.

The decree, published by the official Bahraini News Agency, did not state which nation Nonoo would be appointed to but media reports have said that the US is her likely destination.

Nonoo, 43, said she would undertake the role "first of all as a Bahraini" and that she was not chosen because of her religion.

Bahraini media had speculated over Nonoo's selection for the past few months.

Nonoo, a businesswoman and mother of two children, has served as a legislator in Bahrain's all-appointed 40-member Shura Council for three years.

More on that at Al-Jazeera English, and if you follow the link, there is mention of a synagogue for the country's 40 Jews. There is also mention that Bahrain is planning on giving full citizenship rights to Jewish returnees. The idea of "full-citizenship" in the Gulf states is an important one because these countries are extremely reluctant to let immigrants come in and acquire citizenship—kind of like Switzerland, but worse. The fact that Jews who have presumably been gone for decades will be welcomed back as full citizens is a sign that Bahrain is open to recognizing the historical connection that Jews had to the land, which is interesting because even Muslims who don't have a connection to the land can't just come in and become citizens.

There is, however, an attempt by the Arab states to begin engaging with Jews. Kuwait is planning on building a "1001 Tower"—yes, like the Arabian Nights—the top of which will house a mosque, synagogue and church. Saudi Arabia's ruler recently called for inter-faith dialogue inclusive of Jews which was welcomed by Israel's Chief Rabbi. Qatar, another tiny state, home of Al-Jazeera and Yusuf al-Qardawi, held another inter-faith meeting at which rabbis from Israel were present.

Ahmed:

This will be my last post for the moment, necessitated by your mention of Ethiopian Jews. Despite endless airlifts from Ethiopia, Ethiopian Jews are still in Ethopia, walking, as I said, to Israel, occasionally being held and tortured in Sudan.

When you speak of them as you do, I see them, as I have seen them, leaving me no alternative but to comment. Israel is in an economic crisis. In some parts, there are breadlines. This has delayed rescue efforts, Ahmed.

You say you would give your life to help anyone. You do not need to give your life. You need to understand that the people you are speaking about are people, human beings.

The language you use is violence.

Peace.

Curious

Ahmed writes:

As for 911, you must admit that almost all Muslims were tapped and many were put in prison on mere suspicion, some for years and were later released with no charges, etc. Gitmo tell the whole story. Renditions, etc. You must not deny that and many have left to go back but you do not hear of them. Many Americans have rallied to their support as I would have done for any human who is in need of support

"Most Muslims" were not tapped. Even if the goverment wished to tap them, and it may have, it would have been impossible. Not only have many Muslims not gone home, but many are desperately trying to get here. I know. I have helped the relatives of some I know to get visas. I have helped someone I know, who was educated here and denied a visa to get here.

Americans, time and again, have spoken out about Gitmo, bigotry against Muslims, etc. You should also know that many of those who did so were Jews. You will know doubt think this is part of some insidious plot, a "Zionist" bogeyman plot.

Ahmed writes;

If you have been to Egypt then you know that Mubarak is like Saddam, has been in power for decades and now wants to groom his son. He wins every election by a landslide! When he stands against US and Israel he will disappear like Saddam. The same goes for every Arab/Gulf ruler.

I have, indeed, been to Egypt and I am well aware of that pig, Mubarak. As I mentioned there are almost no Jews left, the Jews having either been deported, or having fled. What you see of the treatment of Palestinians, meaning those deemed Palestinan in Egypt, remains abhorrent as it always has.

Egypt like many "developing" nations is in the hands of wealthy corrupt families, which will never release it. There is, thankfully, a middle class, but it is not large enough, and subject to the same misinformation as the rest of that country.

Mubarak, like other pigs of his ilk, controls the media, and fills it with loathsome antisemitic filth. By blaming "Jews" for all his country's ills, he diflects blame from himself and encourages the growth of extremis factions. Sound familiar?

In the meantime, Sudanese refugees, try desperately to get across Egypt to make it to Israel, which up until a couple of years ago, was taking them. They are still in Israel, and, needless to say, they are not Jews.

You can go to Israel, Ahmed, and meet them yourself. Why, you may ask, did they not remain in Egypt? They did not remain because if the Egyptians caught them, they sent them back to Sudan.

Why did Israel take them? For the same reason, it has taken fleeing Palestinian Christians. You do not have to take my word, Ahmed. You can go and see for yourself, meet them yourself.

Why did Israel stop taking the Sudanese refugees, you may ask, that is the ones who made it past the Egyptians?

Ongoing protests from the Ethiopian community culminating in demonstrations. Some of these people had been detained and tortured in Sudan. They did not wish to live among their torturers. Since Israel is tiny, too small to be represented n a map, they understandably inquired as to whether there were any Christian countries in the world? If so, why could they not take these refugees?

No one is preventing you from going to Israel and seeing for yourself. While there, ask any Israel for his opinion on Mubarek. Ask why we give Egypt five billion dollars a year, while that pig Mubarek and the pig families watch Egyptians starve.

I'm sorry for you, my friend. Glad I gave up on Christianity. Look at where it brings one.

Ahmed,

Thank you for your reply. I'm sorry but you disappoint. I do understand that in some parts of the world, people have limitd access to information. Yet, still, you cannot be in a position neither to have explored the validity of the arguments you make, nor to realize that although we are willing too listen, and as a people, although sometimes too innocent and gullible, emphatically we are not Morons.

I never asked you about Jews. You raised the subject, and here is what you disappointingly wrote:

After creation of Israel, most diaspora Jews were lured to go to Israel for political reasons. to increase demography, to give them larger voice, to show the world they Jews are mistreated worldwide, etc. A Zionist plan which we all know. They continue to do that, the way they now keep pushing those Iranian Jews to immigrate to show Americans and the world that those Iranian Jews are persecuted. Look at what they offered many European Jews and those who did not accept were marginalised. The perks offered to Russian and African Jews, etc. I don't want to go there but many Jewish historians have written about this. Eventually some Jews will leave and some may stay, as they have in Iran, Bahrain, Morocco, Turkey, etc. I do not deny that some have had their share of problems with locals but Pogroms and Holocaust did not happen in Arab/Muslims countries.

What you write goes beyond untruth. I recall your dialogue with one Farnaz who posts here, an Iranian Jew, to whom you wrote that you would have risked your life to help her and her family in Iran. She believed you. Iranian Jews who fled after the Revolution did so for the most part with no help except that which could be provided by relatives or friends from elsewhere. They left everything there, many of them, like Farnaz, fleeing in the night, and their flight, what they left, etc., is DOCUMENTED.

There are very few Jews left in Iran, so your point is quite silly, a fiction, as you surely know. Muslim academics are not idots here, Ahmed, IRanian or otherwise. They cannot deny evidence nor do they want to.

The number of Jews left in Egypt to which I have been many times in the tens. With Iran and Egypt you are thinking of ancient civilizations. Deportations of Jews began in earnest in 1948. In a future post, I will discuss the treatment of Palestinians in EGYPT and elsewhere in the Middle East.

Russia: Many Russian Jews fled in the 1970s when they were given a window to do so.

Ethiopia: A serious problem at first. AmeriChristians, EuroChristians blamed Israelis from not getting the Ethiopian Jews out. This began in the early 1980s. They called the Israelis racists, the Christians did. Humorous, really.

However, the Israelis, while recognizing the persecutions of this Ethiopian minority, kept illerate, deprived of rights in what still passes for rights in Ethiopia, the Israelis, needed to know they were Jews. Otherwise, on what basis could they justify the rescue?

With Christian eyes fixed on the Ethiopian government Israeli academics and scholars were permitted to climb the hills and take testimony. This was no small undertaking, neither taking the testimony nor the trip. Satisfied, airlifts began of this illiterate, impoverished people.

I told you I had travelled, Ahmed. In a future post, I will tell you about Ethiopian Jews who have walked are WALKING FROM Ethipia to Israel. I have met them.

Ahmed, you can go to Israel, and see these things for yourself.

As for what you write about 1967, I'm sorry for you.

When you say Zionism, you should explain. As others have pointed out there is not Zionism. There are Zionisms, which began in 70CE and continue into the present. There is enough written to fill several libraries.

I'm sorry for you my friend. You say you are a Christian. If that is true, then you represent one of the many reasons I left Christianity many, many years ago.

There is something to be said for atheism.

Curious

Oil Rigger:

For a concise, thoughtful piece that avoids scapegoating try The Economist's article RECOIL in this week's edition.

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=11454989

Curious, I'm looking forward to debate on other topics.

Regards, JerseyRomer

Curious

Thanks for being one of those who sympethise with other humans. I want to assure you I do not attack all Americans, only the ones who blindly support injustice and feel superior to other humans.

First ponder on this: Who owns those military camps and have their might in whose land? You did not see Muslims soldiers roaming your cities. It was a bunch of thugs who had a gripe with your foreign policy. I might add a foreign policy which has disregarded local indigenous people all across the lands.

I now try to address your questions:

"..why (women) have they just gotten the right to vote?"

You assume that men had the right to vote. Well, we never did and what the population votes for is a choice of candidates approved by legislature set by the rulers. This is across Arab lands. Only in Kuwait men voted first and later women. Try checking Western democracies to see how long it took women to vote!

If we had been left to our own for the last 100 years, the scenario would be different today but who knows whether for better or worst. Fact is we are not free to have invlovement that affect our lives.

Then you asked:

"As for Jews, about whom I didn't ask, why would they leave after 1967? We didn't see American Muslims fleeing after 9/11."

First because many believe this is a religious conflict between Jews/Muslim?Christians. It is not. It is political and the participants use religion to move the mases. Address those grievances and the conflict will disappear.

After creation of Israel, most diaspora Jews were lured to go to Israel for political reasons. to increase demography, to give them larger voice, to show the world they Jews are mistreated worldwide, etc. A Zionist plan which we all know. They continue to do that, the way they now keep pushing those Iranian Jews to immigrate to show Americans and the world that those Iranian Jews are persecuted. Look at what they offered many European Jews and those who did not accept were marginalised. The perks offered to Russian and African Jews, etc. I don't want to go there but many Jewish historians have written about this. Eventually some Jews will leave and some may stay, as they have in Iran, Bahrain, Morocco, Turkey, etc. I do not deny that some have had their share of problems with locals but Pogroms and Holocaust did not happen in Arab/Muslims countries.

As for 911, you must admit that almost all Muslims were tapped and many were put in prison on mere suspicion, some for years and were later released with no charges, etc. Gitmo tell the whole story. Renditions, etc. You must not deny that and many have left to go back but you do not hear of them. Many Americans have rallied to their support as I would have done for any human who is in need of support. I have received American hospitality and my mother cooked for a few American sailors back in 1960's when my brother used to work for many years on American ships taking oil to Vietnam. We treated them like family. From my own time in America I know that majority Americans have little knowledge of other lands, people and cultures.

Curious then wrote: "..tell us more about foreign intervention, the dictatorship, etc.

If you have been to Egypt then you know that Mubarak is like Saddam, has been in power for decades and now wants to groom his son. He wins every election by a landslide! When he stands against US and Israel he will disappear like Saddam. The same goes for every Arab/Gulf ruler.

All I can suggest is to read from a variety sources including opposition to those rulers and bloggers. Thank God for bloggers! Google for John Perkins or try this link:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3968544393356669182&q=John+Perkins+and+VFP+National+Convention&hl=en

This is exactly the way those corporates and neocons deal. the same was offered to Taliban just a month before 911. A well known French Journalists wrote a book about this encounter. I now forget his name. But all you need to watch i how Ahmedinejad is portrayed as the new Hitler. Try honestly comparing the two?? Iran has a 5000 years of history. Its people are diverse and Ahmedinejad's term is coming to an end, so why threat to bomb them, from Bush to MacCain to Hillary and even when a sane person wants to offer to hold honest talks like Obama, he is ridiculed.

I can go on and on but it gets tedious. I prefer to live in the now and offer hand of friendship to anyone who crosses my path even if they do me wrong. There is a reason for all things and the only reason is to show or receive love. Then we hopefully come to know that the world is one and we are all one, except those who live by fear will take longer to arrive at this reality.

Peace, my friend.

Can greed ever be justified morally or religiously?

In order to answer this question we have to ask what greed is. My answer is simple: greed is grasping more than what people consider one's share of what clearly is in existence and is seen to benefit man. We are clearly greedy about something that is, such as a cake on the table.

Now to be religious or moral and say something such as a cake should be divided equally--or better put, divided so that people agree no one has been greedy--is only a temporary solution at best because quite often the greedy are the nonproductive but grasping, and those complaining of the greedy are perhaps not greedy but still as nonproductive as the nonproductive and grasping.

We can roughly distinguish between four types of people: the productive who are not greedy; the productive who are greedy; the nonproductive who are greedy; and the nonproductive who are not greedy. As can readily be seen the only solution to greed is production, a movement toward people who can produce. Without such a movement we might punish the greedy but we end up only rewarding the nonproductive. On the other hand, with a movement toward productive humans we can tolerate a bit of greed.

The politically correct solution in society to greed (derived from the religious exhortation to uplift all and carried through in the secular sense in Communism and to a lesser degree in socialism) is to punish the greedy and simply distribute resources without questioning the merit, the productive capacity of people. But this politically correct solution is running up against an opposite trend more and more every day: the trend toward spreading resources among the productive, whether they are greedy or not. A good understanding of the latter can be had by observing that in highly functioning societies we have something of a net which more and more sifts the democratic masses to separate the elite from the masses, the elite which get to make it to hollywood, sports teams, elite universities, etc. In other words, in advanced societies it seems the masses have been uplifted to the point they can be uplifted and now we have a process of choosing from the masses a new and higher level of society which gets all the rewards.

And this new and higher society although not directly attacking greed is attacking it in an indirect sense by promoting productive people, people guaranteed to diminish arguments about fair share, etc. through their productive capacity. Naturally of course though, we can expect increasing tension between what essentially are these two notions of progress--we can expect tension between the movement to distribute resources to all, to uplift all peoples, and the movement to scrutinize the masses for the high performing people and separate these people from the masses and give them all power. In U.S. society the Harvard graduates (and the graduates of other elite universities) get everything despite the politically correct notion that all people can be educated and lifted to a high level.

We might cure greed if we give all power increasingly to the productive only, but then we breed envy. On the other hand if we distribute everything to all indiscriminately we might cure greed, but soon enough we run out of whatever we might be greedy about.

A solution to this problem is greatly needed. I simply try to articulate it. What is the humane answer?

The five largest petroleum companies attempted to justify their net profits of $123 billion to Congress recently, saying this was basically in line with typical Fortune 500 company profits - and then made copious whining noises about the threatened democratically sponsored possibility of ending lucrative oil subsidies that have been enabled by republican legislators and the Bush administration for some time.

With any luck, Iraq will finally 'come a gusher' and begin producing real oil one of these years - and if we manage to remain a presence there, these same companies can begin to recoup some of their well-spent tax dollars....which has no doubt helped finance the entire Iraq debacle - but in the end, a good tax dollar investment for big oil.

Hey, we're all to blame, because we all burn it on a daily basis. Does anyone really have much of a choice? The runup in cost per barrel has been 40% since December. All we can hope for in the near term is that it's an oil 'bubble'...kind of like real estate only a whole lot better.

When someone coined the term 'over a barrel', they were absolutely prescient as regards our present circumstance in the USA and elsewhere globally.

The fact that refinery capacity is limited, has certainly turned out to be a blessing in disguise for big oil, now hasn't it? Was that an accident?

Does JerseyRomer work for big oil? One has to wonder.......

'Daniel in the Lion's Den :
Advocate4Good made a false claim about:

"Colorado Law Opens Respective Bathrooms For Either Sex"'

Tut-tut, DitLD. I'm sure Advocate4Good has such high morals that he has segregated bathrooms in his house, one exclusively for the ladies and one exclusively for the gents. What? He doesn't?! You mean males and females BOTH use the same facilities? But, but... (swoons)

Advocate4Good made a false claim about:

"Colorado Law Opens Respective Bathrooms For Either Sex"

So Advocate4Good would be better named, Advocate4Lies.

This is just more Republican lies to scare people over small and petty things, while they continue to suck America dry.

Hello Curious,

First, explain to all the readers the difference between a profit and a profit margin (and go ahead and let folks know what a typical US corp. profit margin is, while you're at it.) Then, give us info on Exxon's profit margin, OK?

Second, please speak to the outcomes of past congressional inquiries into price fixing by oil companies.

Finally, explain how being the largest single tax payer in the history of the world is evidence of "corporate greed."

The tenor of your posts sound a curious chord of religious sanctimony meet Marxist analysis. Multi national corporations should obviously not be immune to human rights concerns, nor should they take someone else's property through force or fraud. The attempt to equate my position with a defense of unfair business practices or political suppression is an ad hominem attack which does nothing to support your view that the oil companies are exemplars of "greed."

JerseyRomer

Jersey Romer:

A finer bunch of folks than the internationally incorporated Exxon Mobile and British Petroleum the world has yet to see. Indeed price-fixing would be unthinkable among said savages. The high price of oil in the midst of record Exxon Mobile profits, its eighteen billion dollar tax subsidy are encomia to its altruism.

Jersey Romer, your knowledge is vast. Kindly provide us with information on the following, not from Wikepedia, needless to say.

For Exxon Mobile:

Human rights abuses:

Exxon Valdez:

Other disasters:

Financial data in millions of US$:
EBITDA:
Net Results:
Net Debt:

For British Petroleum (May God have mercy on their souls.)

Human rights abuses:

Disasters:

Financial data in millions of US$:
EBITDA:
Net Results:
Net Debt:

Hey Oil Rigger, here are some facts for you to consider:

Exxon's tax payment in 2007 of $30 billion (that's $30,000,000,000)

Exxon pays taxes at a rate of 41% on its taxable income.

Over the last three years, Exxon Mobil has paid an average of $27 billion annually in taxes.

According to IRS data for 2004, the most recent year available:

Total number of tax returns: 130 million

Number of Tax Returns for the Bottom 50%: 65 million

Adjusted Gross Income for the Bottom 50%: $922 billion

Total Income Tax Paid by the Bottom 50%: $27.4 billion

In other words, just one corporation (Exxon Mobil) pays as much in taxes ($27 billion) annually as the entire bottom 50% of individual taxpayers, which is 65,000,000 people. Further, the tax rate for the bottom 50% is only 3% of adjusted gross income ($27.4 billion / $922 billion), and the tax rate for Exxon was 41% in 2006 ($67.4 billion in taxable income, $27.9 billion in taxes).

Re: oil prices. Any serious analyst will point to increasing worldwide demand, dwindling supplies, dollar devaluation and, to a lesser extent, the role of speculation.

The lack of investment in alternative energy, domestic production, refinery capacity, conservation through greater efficiency, and, most importantly, the failure to foresee the spike in demand of developing nations (China, India, etc.) is a decades long story of myopia, and implicates both political parties as well as industry leaders. But predictably, highly partisan, class-warfare types will only fix the blame on the Bush, the "greedy oil man."

Ahmed,

My post wasn't meant as an attack. Yours is an exceedingly wealthy nation, I know. Regarding women's rights, if they have full equality, why have they just gotten the right to vote?

As for Jews, about whom I didn't ask, why would they leave after 1967? We didn't see American Muslims fleeing after 9/11.

After you have answered these questions, I would like you, if you would, to tell us more about foreign intervention, the dictatorship, etc. Don't assume everyone knows everything. You don't, I assure you. I've been to Egypt, Israel, Gaza, Pakistan, etc. I've seen things, I doubt you have, know things, I doubt you do.

About Bahrain, I know little enough, and I haven't attacked anyone collectively, my friend. The only one who has done so is you. And not once, but several times. Many Americans are willing to listen, so speak to us, explain to us, with civility, and we will listen to you.

Peace, my friend.

Curious

Christie,

Ditto Mr. Mark's questions.

And please give some references supporting your following statement:

"A careful study of Bible prophecies reveals that the Messiah came in the first century and that he was to return. Evidence establishes that his foretold return, the beginning of his “presence,” occurred in 1914. (Matthew 24:3-14) In that year, Jesus was invisibly enthroned in the heavens as the King of God’s Kingdom".

CHRISTIE writes:

"Prophecies regarding the second coming were written before Paul was born."

I don't get your point here.

99% of Biblical scholars aver that Paul wrote his epistles before any of the Gospels were written. But in support of your statement, you offer verses from Matthew, which was written after Acts, after all of Paul's letters and after Mark's Gospel.

How do quotes from Matthew qualify as being "written before Paul was born?"

Ahmed, Ahmed, Ahmed,

You still don't get it. It is not the USA's foreign policies which by the way did save all those Muslims in Kuwait, Kosovo and Bosnia but it is all about the "fems" (flaws, errors, muck and stench) of Islam.

To wit:

Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and GREED-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/ plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added gay "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

And said muck and stench of terror are the only reasons the USA is in Iraq. We will be more than happy to leave.

"Until the koran is deflawed, no one is safe!!!!"

Concerned…
Prophecies regarding the second coming were written before Paul was born.
“What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?” (Matthew 24:3, King James Version)
The Greek word here translated “coming” is pa•rou•si'a, and it means “presence,” that is, actually being on hand. So when “the sign” is seen, it would not mean Christ was soon to come but that he had already returned and was present. It would mean that he had begun ruling invisibly as a heavenly king and that he would soon bring an end to his enemies.—Revelation 12:7-12; Psalm 110:1, 2.
Jesus did not give just one event as “the sign.” He described many world events and situations. All of these would take place during the time that Bible writers called “the last days.” (2 Timothy 3:1-5; 2 Peter 3:3, 4)
The World Book Encyclopedia says that “many Jews still expect a Messiah to come” and that he “will correct wrongs and defeat the enemies of the people.” However, the Bible says that the Messiah has already come.
The Messiah came in 29 C.E. in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. That was his coming as a humble, suffering Redeemer. He did not come as an all-conquering King to break the oppressive yoke of the Romans, as most Jews and even his followers seemed to have expected. (Isaiah, chapter 53; Zechariah 9:9; Acts 1:6-8) His future coming, however, was foretold to be with power and great authority.—Daniel 2:44; 7:13, 14.
A careful study of Bible prophecies reveals that the Messiah came in the first century and that he was to return. Evidence establishes that his foretold return, the beginning of his “presence,” occurred in 1914. (Matthew 24:3-14) In that year, Jesus was invisibly enthroned in the heavens as the King of God’s Kingdom. Shortly, he will act to rid the earth of the effects of the rebellion in Eden. His subsequent Thousand Year Reign will bless all those manifesting faith in him as the promised Seed, the Messiah, who “takes away the sin of the world.”—John 1:29; Revelation 21:3, 4.

Curious

Bahrain is a very small island. check it out on wicked(pedia. Over my almost 60 years of life, I have never come across women being subjugated. In my own family there are more women than men and many of the young ones have moved to obtain universities education and have good positions in society.

Just last week a Jewish Bahraini woman was appointed as an ambassador and awaiting to take her post either in London or USA. There were a few Jewish families in Bahrain when I was young but most of them left after 1967 war going mostly to USA. They were never attacked on account of being a Jew and neither there has been any problem between the loacals.

Our only problem is political participation in fashioning our own destiny, instead of forcefuly accepting a dictator who is supported by the USA. Everything they do is smoke screen these days. In the past many had to languish in prisons with no trial for decades or banished to other lands.

We have your 5th Fleet stationed in our peaceful island against our will. These are the issues that you need to address not plight of women which is a smokescreen. General population need to have basic rights and not only women. Men need to have work instead of the rulers bringing in cheap foreign labour and treating them like slaves with 10 of them living in one room and thus forced to take on any menial job for a pittance - they are mostly Indians, thousands of them.

Many of us were tortured and died in such prisons for nothing but speaking their minds, including memebers of my own family. I and many Bahrainis are university educated and can not accept outsiders taking the view that we are not capable of running our own affairs and countries like Britain and US h who have had a 100 years interference in our land, deny us basic rights and ignore the plight of political prisoners, many of whom live in exile. Sure recently some have been given the right of return but only after they sign some crappy paper relinquishing their rights and accepting status quo.

We ar peaceful people but in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi, Palestine, etc, they have had enough of foreign interference and tyrant leaders who are either appointed by the west or supported by the west. Their tolerance has reached saturation and hence all the mayhem you witness today.

There is a reason for everything. Then some like this enlightened christian keeps pasting his garbage about how America is brave in saving us for the love of Christ. He and other like him are totally misled and need to live in our lands to know the real issues instead of reading from your media which we all know supports corporations and those who do their bidding.

There is no need to attack people collectively. Please understand them first and then pass comments to make this world a better place, not comments to demean them. For it speaks more about you than them.

Peace.

Okay... let's talk about the Christian "Prosperity Gospel" and the "Prayer of Jabez". All of these poor people are being bilked into believing if they say the right thing, or send money to the right minister, they'll be rolling in money. Frankly, the only ones rolling in money are the people that are pushing this garbage.

Colorado Law Opens Respective Bathrooms For Either Sex

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=127148
http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000007491.cfm

Ahhh, the bowels of the Democratic Party has released another bomb on society, Colorado Bill SB200, as they continue to wipe away and flush our morals, right down the toilet! I suppose we can attribute it to believing their infectious C - - P!” as something aromatically necessary, and yet, the people consider this law as offensive and disgusting as those who manufactured it.

But don’t move just yet, there is more on the way! Indigestion always follows the menu of the Democratic Party and to be sure, is difficult to swallow when knowing the consequences of their stewing crock!

Menu dish, #SB 200: All such public facilities will now be indisputably shared, bathrooms, public pools, public locker rooms all schools and all church facilities are to be shared equally, which is characteristic of a society moving toward socialism in perverting what decent, righteous and of common sense!

Two ingredients that have shamefully been compromised or removed that must be reinstated. The Ten Commandments and our Constitution. Compromising these two ingredients will prove to be fatal in American’s society, as a whole! Speak Up or Forever Lose Your Rights and Liberties!

“When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.” Proverbs 29:2

Advocate4Good

An excellent example of the personal suffering that occurs due to a greedy, egocentric dominated consciousness was aired on CBS Sixty Minutes on June 1, 2008. The profile of Tom Perkins, a self made wealthy venture capitalist who is trapped in his attachments to material goods, offered a great example of an ego self driven person. One example shown during the profile was his obsession with owning the largest privately owned sailboat in the world. While discussing the price of the yacht, Mr. Perkins was too embarrassed to reveal the actual price of the boat because even he was aware of the good that could have been done around the world to alleviate suffering of others with his money. His better nature of consciousness exists but is clearly overshadowed by his overwhelmingly dominate egocentric nature.

Some may argue that he does not suffer from this monstrosity of selfishness since he obviously lives an easy life of wealth and luxury. But his ego driven self is continually searching for relief of his own suffering through the accumulation of material wealth. Despite the fact that he should never have to work again and could provide great service to his fellow humans and other sentient beings of earth, he proclaimed that he was selling the largest sailboat and seeking a new nautical toy: a sports submarine.

Can greed be justified religiously? Apparently so, yes. Can anyone think of a greedier character than bible-god?

Love makes the world go 'round.

Greed makes the world go 'round?

But - what if "love of greed" makes the world go 'round?

"You just blew my mind!" - Cosmo Kramer

Sadly, Greed is what makes the world go round. Its all about the bottom line and always will be for most people. Its just the way it is.

JT
http://www.Ultimate-Anonymity.com

Ahmed from Bahrain,

How goes it with women's rights in Bahrain? Understand they recently got the right to vote. And human rights? Can you tell us?

Spiderman writes: "You guys are doomed and still don't know it."

But you're wrong. We do it know it. You mention it at every opportunity. Start making sense please.

Ahmed, Ahmed, Ahmed,

You still don't get it. It is not the USA's foreign policies which by the way did save all those Muslims in Kuwait, Kosovo and Bosnia but it is all about the "fems" (flaws, errors, muck and stench) of Islam.

To wit:

Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and GREED-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/ plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added gay "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

O Islam, Islam, violent Islam,
Moha, illiterate and hallucinating,
O Islam, Islam, violent Islam,
Moha greed and lustful, womanizing,
Was he too,

O Islam, O Islam, violent Islam,
Moha, warmongering and hateful,
Was he too,

O Islam, O Islam, violent Islam,
Sunnis of hate, Shiites of late,
Even Pretty Gay Wingie Thingies cannot
Save us from Islam's hate.

Save us from these Islamic FEMs,
Flaws, Errors, Muck and Stench,
As they ooze from the rocks of earth,
Like worms of wrench and death.

Born, Bred, and Brainwashed too,
Whatever, whatever to do?
Truth, Truth, History and Truth,
Let it Ring True, Freedom, Freedom
Freedom at Last and much left to do!!!

100 years of interference in other lands - and Middle East which affects me most - has brought your chickens home to roost.

What does this foreign policy stands for:

Greed to own more world resource.
Dominance of other lands.
Fear of loosing your power and lifestyle (SUV's)
Control of others - corporations who dominate with no moral impunity.
Economy based on production of WMD to facilitate all above.

And the way out?

To know that you are fine as you are. No need to fear. You have enough and no need to steal from others (it is not your oil under their land and we can't drink the darn stuff anyway). You have no enemies and no need to create enemies. You love others as you love yourself.

Try that for a foreign policy and no need to attack others for their sicknesses. Address your own first.

Peace.

Um because that isn't how the system works?

Can greed ever be justified morally or religiously?
Not, to my mind. But digging a little deeper into the cause of greed, which cause drives many immoralities, we can find that fear drives human beings to greed. What is the cause of fear?
Ultimately, it is fear of loss, of abandonment, of pain and of death.
The immorality lies in not transforming the structures (social,economic, political) which perpetuate the fears into those which support basic human rights. In a sense, the belief in market forces above all, with the attending belief in competition (even though last-man-standing competition is destructive of the very structure which gives it life) relies on a dogma which is not born out in history. The belief that there is a level playing field supported by market forces is just not true. The belief that market forces bring everyone equal opportunity and therefore propagates justice is not true. If it were, we would have justice and equality in the world...and of course we do not.

So how could greed be acceptable and even moral in any sense whatsoever?

You want to help the poor engage in governmental actions that make job creation easier not harder. Make sure the rich are busily bidding for the services of the rest of us and you will see wages increase and the disparity between rich and poor diminish.

So much silly so little time...

Half or more of the 'speculators' are people trying to make sure they have at least some gas to sell their customers at some price.

Biblically greed is to place money in a superior position to God. To man it is to value one's services at a higher rate of compensation than some one else thinks one ought to. The fist is objective the second is subjective.

Christie,

Hmmm, thump, thump, the bible thump!!

In Reality, the historical Paul's contribution to greed:

Paul picked up the money scent on the road to Damascus. He added some letters and a prophecy of the imminent second coming for a fee for salvation and "Gentilized" the good word to the "big buck" world. i.e. Paul was the first media evangelist!!! And he and the other Apostles forgot to pay their Roman taxes and the legendary actions by the Romans made them martyrs for future greed.

Dear Christine,

Let me say my own opinion about her.

She is an Angel
And a good mother,
Love is her food
Love is her spirit
Yes,perfect Mediator.

Questions and topics
Unilateral answers
Incredible opinions,but
Nothing is better than her
Nothing is prettier than her.

Greed is of course the core principal of Capitalism; deemed to be a neccessary "evil" to provide the economic well-being by allowing those Capitalist to profit so us mere mortals can live well on the dregs! America is now reaping the true fruits of Capitalism when it is not severely regulated and constrained from its natural "excesses"! Capitalism has now bought the very governmental forces which are charged with the responsibility of controling them; hence America has nearly become the Fascist dream of Capitalism able to exercise its greed and avarice unconstrained by decency, common good, or any beneficial thoughts other than the number of zeros in the bank accounts! One can "pray" that some day they make be forced to try to eat those electronic zeros.

Greed can never be justified morally or religiously by those who want to have a relationship with the God of the Bible.
Paul warns: "The love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things, and by reaching out for this love some have been led astray from the faith and have stabbed themselves all over with many pains." (1 Timothy 6:10) The Bible does not say that money itself is evil. Neither does the apostle say that money is the fundamental cause of "injurious things" or that money lies at the root of every problem. Rather, the love of money can be a cause—even if not the only cause—of all kinds of "injurious things."
Those who begin to love money are vulnerable to all kinds of problems,

Paul said to the Christians in Colossae: "Deaden, therefore, your body members that are upon the earth as respects . . . hurtful desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry." (Colossians 3:5)
The difference between normal desire and greed might be likened to the difference between the small campfire that cooks food and the blazing inferno that consumes a forest. Wholesome and well-placed desire can be constructive. It motivates us to work and to be productive. Proverbs 16:26 says: "The soul of the hard worker has worked hard for him, because his mouth has pressed him hard." But greed is dangerous and destructive. It is desire out of control.
Paul says that being a "greedy person . . . means being an idolater." (Ephesians 5:5) To be greedy for something in reality means that we surrender our will to it—in effect, we make it our master, our god, the thing we serve. In contrast, God insists: "You must not have any other gods against my face."—Exodus 20:3.
Our being greedy also indicates that we do not trust that God will follow through on his promise to supply what we need. (Matthew 6:33) Greed, then, amounts to a turning away from God. In this sense too, it is "idolatry."
Jesus also gave a direct warning against greed. He commanded us to guard against longing for something that we do not have: "Keep your eyes open and guard against every sort of covetousness, because even when a person has an abundance his life does not result from the things he possesses." (Luke 12:15) According to the Bible, greed is based on the foolish belief that what matters in life is how much one has. It may be money, status, power, or related things. It is possible to be greedy for anything that can be acquired. The idea is that having that thing will make us content. But according to the Bible and human experience, only God can—and will—satisfy our real needs, as Jesus reasoned with his followers.—Luke 12:22-31.
Paul offers the alternative to greed, which is contentment. He says: "So, having sustenance and covering, we shall be content with these things." (1 Timothy 6:8) This description of all that we really need—"sustenance and covering"—may sound rather simplistic or naive.
We need to remind ourselves of the relative worth of material things. God's Word says: "The valuable things of the rich are his strong town, and they are like a protective wall in his imagination." (Proverbs 18:11) The security that riches can provide is in the end only imagined and is actually deceptive. It is wrong to center our lives on them rather than on gaining God's approval.
The uncertainty of material wealth makes it far too fragile to fix our hope on. Genuine hope must be moored to something strong, meaningful, and lasting. Real hope is fixed on our Creator, Jehovah God, and his promise of everlasting life. While it is true that money cannot buy happiness, it is even more true that money cannot buy salvation. Only our faith in God can give us such hope.
It is wise, whether wealthy or poor, to pursue a course in life that will make us "rich toward God." (Luke 12:21) Nothing is more valuable than an approved standing with the Creator. All efforts to maintain it contribute to our 'treasuring up for ourselves a fine foundation for the future, in order that we may get a firm hold on the real life.'—1 Timothy 6:19.

Kuato, "greed is its own punishment." I like that. I'm going to use that in the future. Shows good understanding of the human psyche.

SALLY QUINN:

DO you not have any self respect left?

Did you read Berlinerblau today? Your name on this silly putrid idiot's daily stuff?

Congratulations on what your reputation has become.

Spidey 2 writes:

"TWISTED MINDS. Doomsday is so near. This world is filled with people who can't distinguish their left hand from their right. You guys are doomed and still don't know it."

You've got to admire a guy like Spidey who KNOWS that "doomsday is so near," yet who at the same time offers long-term solutions for the energy crisis.

But then, he may not be offering said solutions for his fellow beings. Perhaps Jesus got a message to Spidey (via TM Baum?) that He would be needing a lot of energy to defeat the powers of darkness and to power his 1000-year Kingdom on Earth.

Then again, if Jesus is really god, one would imagine that he'd have no need of fuels. One would think he could fairly piss gasoline if he so pleased. One would assume that he'd need only touch the hood of a Hummer and it would start up by itself...and could run 'til doomsday without need of a fill up.

Or, maybe not.

IF THE U.S CONGRESS IS SERIOUS IN STAMPING OUT THE SPECULATORS IN THE OIL COMMODITY MARKET, THEY SHOULD PASS A LAW THAT WOULD PLACE A CEILING PRICE FOR OIL FOR A PERIOD OF TIME (3 months to 6 months). After the period expires, set another ceiling price that is lower than the previous. Im sure that in 1 year time, the price of oil will be back to its normal level which could be 40 to 50 dollars per barrel. No speculators would like that and for sure a selling spree would occur.

That is the best solution to scare off speculators.

Daniel - nice. I dont agree entirely with your depiction of atheism, but your thoughts about science and faith mirror my own agnosticism to a large degree.

I have a fundamental problem with this debate in that I dont believe that the world is in some sort of dichotomous struggle between good and evil. I dont think that a human characteristic like "greed" will fit easily into one category or the other. I am not entirely certain that greed has a moral value at all.

One thing that I would like to point out, though, is that wealth is not the antidote for greed. People who are greedy never really find contentment. They gather continually, but are never satisfied with what they possess. They suffer from a constant fear that their wealth will be diminished, and they bear the burden of the endless struggle to obtain what they covet. My point: greed is its own punishment - sort of like some kind of practical karma. For what it is worth, I realize that this is a gross oversimplification of a tremendously complex issue.

If there is a god, though, I imagine that he considers greed a punishment in and of itself.

"I'm not an atheist..." (Einstein)

"I’m not somebody who goes to church on a regular basis" (Bill Gates)

Actually I don't care much if Einstein or Gates believe or don't believe in God. Even if the whole world doesn't believe in God, it doesn't affect my faith.

What I don't comprehend is when people don't seem to understand very simple English.

If I tell you "Im an atheist", does it mean to you that I believe in God?

TWISTED MINDS. Doomsday is so near. This world is filled with people who can't distinguish their left hand from their right.

"And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand..." (Jonah 4:11)

Oh, how true. You guys are doomed and still don't know it.

This debate about the spirituality of Einstein and Bill Gates is ridiculous. Newton would have been a better reference; he actually did believe in God. But some need to realize that it is possible to give deference to religion without actually being a believer. Gates and Einstein clearly fall into this category.

..mind-blowing..

Bill Gates has a wife who is Catholic - while he was raised as a Congregationalist, he has been very clear in his lack of interest in religion per se via the interviews quoted here - very easy to find if you are able to google.

If anything, Gates is a humanist with his own particular interests and agenda as regards global needs - without doubt, he will do what Buffet has done with the majority of his wealth (which is invested through the Gates Foundation at present) - ensure that his billions will help fund causes that are near and dear to his heart in perpetuity.

What more can a rich man do?? So far, we haven't heard what Carlos Slim will do with his billions -these three guys seem to rotate for top position in terms of speculated wealth from year to year.

Will Mexican Carolos Slim post-humously grace the Vatican with more mega- millions, or will he keep the money in country, so to speak? Stay tuned.......

Bill Gates is a Catholic and if he thinks there is something wrong with religion, that is understanble because Catholicism is wrong.

"I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God." (Albert Einstein)

As quoted in Glimpses of the Great (1930) by G. S. Viereck

"What humanity owes to personalities like Buddha, Moses, and JESUS ranks for me higher than all the achievements of the enquiring and constructive mind.

What these blessed men have given us we must guard and try to keep alive with all our strength if humanity is not to lose its dignity, the security of its existence, and its joy in living. "

Written statement (September 1937) as quoted in Albert Einstein, The Human Side: New Glimpses From His Archives (1981)

"I’m not somebody who goes to church on a regular basis. " (Bill Gates)

I thought atheists don't go to church at all?

Should I go on?

The Commodity Futures Trading Commission just announced a now 6 months long investigation into price fixing in oil markets - good luck with that.

If they ever find a smoking gun pointing to a real conspiracy, it will be like finally finding the Higgs boson. These guys are far better at hiding their tracks than either the CIA or the FBI...because there are monumental dollars at stake - prices up over 40% just since December.

Still, this is one conspiracy we can all believe in! Just saw hard evidence at the pump today....

When it comes to a deep belief in god, it seems that there are two groups on the economic scale who hold the deepest beliefs:

the super wealthy, who can well afford to believe in god's blessings...

and the super poor...who can't afford not to believe in the same...