McCain, Parsley and Islam

Daniel, Daniel, Daniel in the Lion's Den,

You said: "You don't like most people who post here; you have made that very, very clear."

Au Contraire!!! As a Christian (of the New Reality), loving my neighbor and doing no harm, are engrained on my soul and exude from my every pore. e.g. Note the Five Step Programs I have provided for those poor souls suffering from the Three B Syndrome.

And what do I believe? As noted countless of times, I believe that religions are severely flawed. In case you missed the latest update:

The Synopsis of the Flaws and Errors of Contemporary Religions:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a mythical character as was Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.

1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.

simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish
peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

3. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

4. Mohammed, an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds these acts of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

5. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) - "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."

The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."
"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

Also as noted in a previous thread, what would MLK say??

With the assassination of MLK, we will never know exactly what he would have said. Considering his intelligence, one assumes he would say this:

"After careful review my fellow Christians, it is apparent to my mind and soul that we have been fed significant mumbo-jumbo with respect to the life of Jesus.

Brothers and Sisters stop and read about the real Jesus. Develop the true view!!! Jesus was a simple, illiterate preacher man. The Beatitudes are pure Jesus. His giving to Caesar what was Caesar's is pure Jesus. The rest was embellishment upon embellishment of the life of said simple preacher man!!! The "miracles" were added to compete with the local "voodooers of the hoodoo", the resurrection was added to compete with Roman and Greek gods and the "pretty wingie thingies" and "demons of the demented added to continue the fear and superstitions of the ancients!!!!!"

He is try to prove that he is not a fool.
But the more he try........

But isn't this list of many names irrelevant? What does this list prove? You are doing a lot of work for no particular reason. And another thing, what, just do you believe, anyway? You don't like most people who post here; you have made that very, very clear. So what? That does not tell any of us what you believe or what you are trying to prove. So, what are you trying to prove? Nothing, as far as I tell.

GaryD,

You continue to quote that only 1-2% of contemporary NT exegetes believe that the real Jesus was quite different than the embellished figure of the NT. Please give references supporting your statistics. Priests and preachers most of whom do not have advanced degrees in History and/or Theology are hardly experts.

Some of the contemporary NT exegetes who have the necessary education and who have studied the necessary documents with their conclusions written and reviewed in many books are:

R. Bultmann
E. Kasemann
Earl Doherty
Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy
Alvar Ellegård
G. A. Wells
Gregory Riley
Robert Eisenman
John Dominic Crossan - an On Faith Panelist
Robert Funk
Burton Mack
Stephen J. Patterson -
Marcus Borg - an On Faith Panelist
Stevan Davies
Geza Vermes
Richard Horsley
Hyam Maccoby
Gerd Theissen
Bart Ehrman
Paula Fredriksen - an On Faith Panelist
Gerd Lüdemann
John P. Meier
E. P. Sanders
Robert H. Stein
Karen Armstrong - an On Faith Panelist
Albert Schweitzer (The Quest for the Historical Jesus)
Mahlon Smith
Karen Pagels- An On Faith Panelist
NT Wright- an On Faith Panelist and still believer in that Old Time religion
Timothy Luke Johnson - still a believer in that Old Time Religion

And members of the Jesus Seminar not noted above.

faithfutures.org/HJst.../ HJstudies.html,

earlychristianwritings.com/

GaryD,

You continue to quote that only 1-2% of contemporary NT exegetes believe that the real Jesus was quite different than the embellished figure of the NT. Please give references supporting your statistics. Priests and preachers most of who do not have advanced degrees in History and/or Theology are hardly experts.

Some of the contemporary NT exegetes who have studied the necessary documents are:

Since when do the Jesus seminarians a handful of pseudo-scholars who represent some where between 1
& 2% of modern exegetes if that equal many?

GaryD,

"I am the Truth" i.e. John 14:6. This passage was, according to many contemporary NT exegetes, not said by the historical Jesus but was wishful thinking and an embellishment by John to make Jesus more like the ancient and local gods of first century Palestine. 210-. Place of Life: (1) Dial. Sav. 27-30, (2) John 14:2-12; faithfutures.org/Jesus/Crossan2.rtf

books.google.com/books?id=AsPHR4-7Wc8C&pg=PA444&lpg=PA444&dq=%22place+of+life%22+%22the+historical+jesus%22+crossan&source=web&ots=8mVx_1M6g4&sig=XFqT8S1coAT18xq8Qwt1vMcMjW0

And John 18:36-38, " I have come to bear witness to the Truth" has the same problem.

180-. Pilate's Question:(1a) Gos. Pet. pre-1:1 from later 3:6,9 (Son of God) & 3:7; 4:11 (King of Israel), (1b) Mark 15:1-5 = Matt 27:1-2,11-14 = Luke 23:1-5, (1c) John 18:28-38;19:4-16

faithfutures.org/index.php/180_Pilates_Questions

Dear CNNL -

FYI - my blocked posts from the weekend contained no links or urls of any kind. Neither did they contain any questionable language.

I chalk it up to a new level of ineptitude at this blog.

Moody Jesus also said I and the Father are one, did not Correct either Peter or Paul when they addressed him as God, Sent people out asking thme to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy spirit thereby giving the latter coequal status with the former and came back from the dead according to no less than 500 eye witnesses.

And is the only being to have ever done so without having a prophet call him forth from the grave.

How many people did Muhammad raise from the dead? How many blind men regained there sight by his hand?
These are works by which Old testament prophets demonstrated there power Muhammad is a bit short on those things to be take as a prophet of the lineage of Elijah or Elisha.

Before going off on a censorship tirade, drop the http and www's on any web page addresses you have in your comments. Apparently full web addresses are no longer allowed.

Also if the link (e.g. Readers’ Responses) to the does not come up under the panelist's commentary, change the text size (under View) to a smaller size and retry. The page designers only allow so much text to be viewed. Text that does not fit such as the Readers responses line, will be hidden.

Am I naive? Or are you merely self-important?

I hope that the WaPo is not censuring comments for some political reason, but really, I do not care all that much; why should I? I am not seeking to start any kind of political or religious movement; I am merely engaged in conversation, and trying to see what other people have to say on "things.'

The WaPo is providing this blog, and is paying for it, and so, they can do anything they want with it, can't they? The fact that you post here, and that your post got through indicates, that even you, a skeptic, have a fundamental faith that this is a forum for the free exchange of ideas.

And besides, as I said before, there is alot more going wrong here, than merely blocking people's posts. For example, I tried to post a reply to Sally Quinn's essay, but there was no access to the comments at all, even though the little note indicated there were more than 40. Then, later, when I had access to the comments, I could not type a comment, because that screen was missing; it is all happening today, just as it has been for awhile.

"I think it is unreasonable to suppose that the WaPo is censuring people. Why would they do that?"

you believe wapo has no political agenda?

daniel- you are extremely naive-

DIVINE IMPULSES
VIDEO: Francis Collins | God Created Evolution

"No comments have been posted about this item."

"Comments are closed for this item."

I also work in an office where the software that supports us is always changing and being upgraded and is always quaking and shivering beneath out feet, and perhaps I am used to "things going hay-wire" and then snapping back to normal in a short time.

I think it is unreasonable to suppose that the WaPo is censuring people. Why would they do that? The WaPo is not the government; it is a corporation; the supposed purpose of this blog is to engage people in a discussion, but perhaps the "bottom-line" purpose is to get attention, to be noticed, to create a buzz, and that would not happen if the more provocative posts were cancelled, and only the dull ones made it through.

Think it through; the more intelligent, provocative, or controverisial the posts, the better for the WaPo; all of these people are writing for them, FOR FREE! I think it is only human nature to suppose that when something goes wrong, that maybe some force is being directed personally at them, but alas, that is usually not the case, in general, or on this blog.

I should add that it appears to me that the software is being developed beneath our feet. I subject people to this same kind of evolving flakiness 9-5, M-F. ;)

"No freedom of speech and religion on the wapo "ON FAITH" boards."

Look at Francis Collins' video:

"Comments are closed for this item"

Daniel in the Lion's Den writes: "I think that when a post does not appear, it is more likely due to a software glitch than to censureship."

I concur. It's been flaky since I first started visiting some months back.

Is the Washington Post Censuring the comments of people who seek to post here?

I do not think they are. Very harsh things appear on these threads every day. However, some "funny" things have been happening here.

Many people have commented that their posts do not appear. I have had this happen to me, as well.

But I wonder if the WaPo is just having alot of problems managing this blog and the software that supports it?

For example, up until recently, the comments seem to have been posted almost randomly in either a top-down sequence or a bottom-up sequence. Then one day, all of a sudden, they were are all transformed into a bottom-up sequence, even ones that had already been posted, and a number of people mistakenly thought their posts had been deleted, because they were searching for them at the wrong end.

Then sometimes, I try to post, but the "posting" screen is absent, and does not return for awhile. Then sometimes, I write out a post, but the preview and post buttons are absent. (This is not just my failure to scroll down; somethimes they just disappear). Sometimes, all of the posts do not appear for awhile, but then later, they all reappear. Sometimes, the essays to not appear in their entirety but are clipped off at the bottom in mid-sentence. Bu then later, they are restored.

I think that when a post does not appear, it is more likely due to a software glitch than to censureship.

Anon,

WAPO now does not allow any commentary that has a full web address as part of the commentary so resend your "blockages" without web addresses and see what happens.

No freedom of speech and religion on the wapo "ON FAITH" boards.

Posts are held and blocked from posting. The best posts don't make the threads. The board content is stilted and BORING SKEWED PROPAGANDA without an open forum.

Moody, Moody, Moody,

And to summarize your ranting:

"No one is safe until the koran is deflawed!!!!!"

DOES ANY BODY HAVE A TONGUE?

Good question!
Can Christians ANSWER my below questions to PROVE if Christianity is false religion or not?
And to ALSO prove that Christianity is the ORIGINAL religion that Jesus (A.S) had and followed??

Jesus (A.S) said my father is greater than me.
Also said my God is a Jealous God.
Also said I do every thing with the Will of my God (father).
He also said I do not come to change but to confirm the (Jewish) Law. (His this saying tells that Jesus (A.S) came ONLY for Jews, but they did the same to him what they did to there previous apostles/ prophets)
My question TO THE CHRISTIAN WORLD IS DOES JESUS (A.S.) EVER ONCE SAID, I CAME TO GIVE MY SACRIFICE FOR YOUR SINS?
Instead JESUS (A.S) SAID, """"who break one Law will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven""".

DID OR HAVE CHRISTIANS EVER FOLLOWED WHAT JESUS (A.S) SAID??
DID YOU EVER FOLLOW THE LAW??

HE ALSO PROSTRATED AND PRAYED, my question is TO WHOM???
My another question is DOES CHRISTIANS "EVER" prayed and prostrated like Jesus (A.S) to his God (Father)?
One more IMPORTANT question, did Jesus (A.S) ever said I’m god worship me? Anywhere in Christian records or in ANY VERSION of the Bible?

THE WORST WAY OF CALLING NAME TO THE ALMIGHTY CREATOR:

When Christians say that Jesus (A.S) was the only BEGOTTEN son and not MADE like Adam (A.S) or like all other creatures or creations? (Like when and what God wishes, it happened- e.g., didn’t Adam and Eva was created, the whole world is created, WHY NOT JESUS (A.S)?)
What are you insinuating??? That God Almighty Him self came down to perform the lowest form of animal act like dog, donkey or monkey, i.e., sexual reproduction?
And on top of it Jesus (A.S) was His begotten son not legitimate????????
THAT IS THE WORST KIND OF ABUSE AND NAMING ANY BODY COULD HAVE DIRECTED TOWARDS THE GOD ALMIGHTY!!
Well down you so called CHRISTIAN believers??
You are getting your rewards in this world and will definitely get infinitely here after!!!!!!

YOUR BEST OF BEST ARE PREIST, BISHOP, CARDINAL AND POP AND NUNS RIGHT!

You say Nuns don't marry there whole life b/cause they are married to the Father. Alright!

My Question is Your Priest up to Pop, are they also married to the Father?????
Extremely Natural concept, behavior or shall I say belief ????

Ahmed, Ahmed, Ahmed,

We fight terror and aggression wherever and whenever it threatens our safety. The flaws and errors of Islam today are the greatest of these threats as noted by the following body count:

1a) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto

1b) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

2) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, 4000 US troops and 82,109 – 89,605 Iraqi civilians iraqbodycount.org/

3) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded

4) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

5) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

6) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

7) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

And what drives this situation??? The centuries-old blood feud between Sunnis and Shiites. Once again:

As noted above: The Sunni-Shiite civil war in Iraq and the 24/7 blood letting, .

Iran, Shiite theocracy, 24/7 support of global terror.

OBL, Sunni/"Wannabee" madman, 24/7 support of global terror.

Fill in the answers below:

Hamas, Sunni or Shiite??

Fatah, Sunni or Shiite??

Pakistan, Sunni or Shiite? Which group assassinated Bhutto??

Malaysia, nearing a Sunni theocracy?

Bahrain, Sunni or Shiite???

Phillipines, Sunni or Shiite???

Taliban, Sunni or Shiite???

Somalia, Sunni or Shiite???

And it could all be solved by simply deflawing the koran!!!!!!

Dear Observer -

OK, I'll try again. Let's see if I make it through the lousy WaPo programming this time. You wrote:

"You advise me to read a book once in a while, while in the same breath admit that your knowledge about the ideology that poses an existentialist threat to the whole Western Civilization is “superficial at best”. If you simply read some of my posts your knowledge of Islam would be substantially more than ”superficial”."

• "Superficial" is a relative term. My personal knowledge of Islam is superficial when set against my knowledge of Xianity. That said, my knowledge of Islam probably far exceeds that of the general populace. I don't know whether reading your posts on Islam would enlighten me about Islam, but I'm pretty sure they'd lay bare your paranoia about the same.

"At the same time you behave as if you know more about Christian history than all the Bible scholars and those who wrote about that history throughout the past 2008 years (and not 1500, as you maintain.)"

• Absolute hokum. I have never claimed that I have the Biblical knowledge of a Crossan, let alone he and the rest of the Bible scholars put together. What I do have is a general knowledge that I've gained through my own studies which I choose to share on this blog. My knowledge of science comes from a standard public school education and reading magazines and newspapers, options that are open to everyone in this country.

In other words, my knowledge of things is average.

The problem seems to be that those with below-average knowledge of common scientific knowledge feel competent to comment on any and all things scientific, while those with the greatest knowledge of religion (Crossan, et al) seem loath to call religion for what it is: an absolute sham with no historic truth behind it. They know it, they just won't say it (or, they'll say it without saying it).

• You “debunk"? ’my claims about the martyrdom of all the original disciples by alleging their execution was due to their “obstinacy”.

You're confusing two separate issues.

The first is the legend of the original 12 Apostles dying martyr deaths. I debunk this by stating correctly that this is the stuff of myth, not history. I ask you you provide sources to back up your claims. I'm still waiting.

The second issue deals with Xians being executed for their obstinacy, not for the mere fact that they were Xians. To support this claim, I provided a snippet of Pliny's letter to Trajan. It is clear to anyone with the ability to comprehend these things that Pliny was NOT speaking of the original 12 Apostles. How could he? His letter to Trajan was written in 112CE. Anybody living in 30CE would have been long dead, including the 12.

"Supposing that was true, but what called the attention of the authorities to these simple people in the first place? Is it not because they were preaching a Gospel that was considered by the ROMANS AS A THREAT TO THEIR RELIGION AND TO THEIR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT?"

• If you knew anything about history, you would know that the Romans were successful conquerers because they allowed the vanquished to continue to worship their local gods. They only insisted that the vanquished worship the Roman gods IN ADDITION TO their local gods. This meant recognizing the Emperor as a living god. This some Xians would not do.

The Romans didn't see any particular religion as a threat. The threat came in refusing to bow to Rome's absolute power by making a show of worshipping Rome's gods.

BTW - I'm a little disappointed that you try to gain sympathy for the early Xians by calling them "these simple people." I'm sure that you and your fellow Xians find it appropriate to use such loaded language tp draw sympathy - it's right up there with, "the poor, innocent baby Jesus, the Lamb of God destined to die on a cross. Boo-hoo..."

Well, were all early Xians "simple people?" I thought they were radical revolutionaries with a few brilliant minds thrown in, minds (like Paul) who understood the "word of god."

Did Xians have a monopoly on simpletons, or were there "poor simple people" from other religions who had plenty of simpletons in their midst as well?

"You don’t seem to be aware of the contradictions between your original claim; that ‘Jesus did not exist”, and the later claim about his followers."

• Where's the contradiction? Let's try this one:

Xenu didn't bring people to Earth 75 million years ago in a spaceship that looked like a 747. Ergo, Xenu did not exist.

However, members of the Church of Scientology firmly believe that Xenu DID exist, and the basic tenets of their religion are based on a belief that Xenu existed.

OK, you tell me: what's the difference between Jesus not existing and Xenu not existing and followers of Xianity and those of Scientology firmly believing that Jesus/Xenu did exist? Where is there a contradiction?

Back at ya.

Oh and why is it Dr. King only got a couple of days and then we came back to this crack brained idiocy.

There is no comparison between the situation of Mohamed after taking Mecca and Bush after removing Saddam. For one thing Mecca still had in Mohamed's time an effective standing army and an effective government. No such things existed in Iraq. To have left would only have meant that the situation we left would be even worse than it is now.

Anonymous

Theology of peace in Islam is summed up towards the end of rifts and fightings by the Quran when Mohammad with his superior army entered Macca. No blood was shed and he appointed one of his old enemies as the mayor of the city and after he performed his pilgrimage, he left for his home in the city of Medina.

George Bush could have done the same!! but he stayed in Iraq.

Here is what Quran says at the time:

"To you, your religion and to me mine. I do not worship that which you worship and neither you worship what I worship." In other words,neither I expect you to follow my religion and you should not expect me to follow yours.

Anything you or anyone else says after this is for creating mischief. Follow this and make peace with those who extend the hand of peace to you. The rest leave them to their own affairs and once you leave those countries, they will leave you.

But keep fighting "Islam" as a whole whilst you station troops for over 5 decades in Arabia, then don't blame some who willsee this as confrontaiton, started by you.

That may be too much common sense for most of you Americans but why don't you try it?

truth is you have no control over your own foreign policy and will tax fund 'your troops' and use brute force as it is always "an option on the table' as your president loves to repeat. Talk about aggravation.

Is there no advisor that can tell him, please talk to these people and promise to leave them. Then pack up and leave. BUT tell them if they come to US soil and fith back, they will have another thing coming to them.

End of the story. Actually not. After a period of lull, start sending us your teachers, doctors, businessmen, artists and the likes. It will project good image of America. It will take a while but start it. Be an ambassodor for peace instead of muck-raking.

You will find us most amicable people. Fanatics are very minority and if you insist in attacking all Muslims and Islam, then you give them the ammo and give us no voice.

Common sense is lost on common people, or what?

Peace.

testing testing testing..

testing

Let us see if this brief note goes through.

Yo there blog moderator, this thread is not registering!!!!!!

THEOLOGY OF PEACE IN ISLAM

http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~rtavakol/engineer/theology.htm

Mr. Mark et al,

It appears there is a malfunction in the system.

Mr. Mark et al,

If you added a full web address to your recent commentaries, the system will not accept said commentaries. In the past, commentaries were restricted to two web addresses. Why? Limit or elimination of web pages that might be offensive???

Ahhh... Mr. Mark... hello and goodbye. I also just wrote a longish-reply... and it ALSO vanished into the black hole of 'waiting for approval'.

Oh, well... it looks like I might be right behind you.

Dear Observer -

FYI, I wrote a long-ish response to your last post. Unfortunately, I was blogging from my home computer, and every post I write from there is being embargoed by the blog owner (the blog owner being technically inept, my posts from work seem to escape the dreaded "under review" black hole). Apparently, I've been flagged as an undesirable voice on this forum. I guess I'm no longer welcome here.

As I can't and won't waste office time posting here, that does it for me. Bye-bye to all the friends and engaged opponents I've made here over the past year and a half.

To my atheist friends - good luck. Your time here may be limited as well.

As always,

Mr Mark

Of course Islam should be 'ended'. There is no need to actually destroy it, though... all that is necessary is to entice it to destroy itself. The 'problem' can be resolved… quickly… easily… economically… once and for all.

The simple solution requires only that for one whole month, every newspaper in the free world devote its front page to offensive cartoons, ridiculing Allah (peace on him) and Mohammed (peace on him, too). By the end of that time, most of Islam will have self-destructed in a paroxysm of snits, hissy-fits and terminal apoplexy.

WARNING: This will not be pretty… but the world will be a much better place for it.

Regrettably, I can't think of a similarly uncomplicated, cost-effective and efficient stratagem for dismantling Christianity… but… (sigh)… oh well… one thing at a time. One only does what one can.

You see... ALL religions are 'false'. Islam is no more false than christianity. But Islam and Christianity are undoubtedly the most dangerous. I think that christianity is a far greater threat to our way of life, here in the USA, than Islam is, though. Comparatively speaking, Islam is little more than a petty annoyance. Even so... petty annoyances STILL need to be dealt with; they distract one from focusing on what is truly important.

With respect to McCain renouncing Parsley... what's the point? All of the present crop of presidential candidates are either lying or deluded. No 'false dichotomy' here... the extremes are stark... and accurate... and there is no 'in-between'. All of the candidates profess that they 'believe' in god... and they either do, or they don't. If they do... they are deluded. If they don't... they are lying. Either way (in my mind), it reveals them to be unqualified to hold and execute the high-office of President of the USA. But since we are given no alternatives... and if I HAD to choose (I don't HAVE to... all I need to do is write-in Pat Paulsen again) I'd have to go with the non-believing liar; at least there is a much higher probability that he/she is actually SANE... i.e., NOT deluded. Maybe he can't be trusted, entirely... but at least he can be trusted not to be including prayer, Jesus, prophecy, and the WILL of god in his tool-kit. in his plans.

“The president of the United States has claimed, on more than one occasion, to be in dialogue with God. If he said that he was talking to God through his hairdryer, this would precipitate a national emergency. I fail to see how the addition of a hairdryer makes the claim more ridiculous or offensive.” ~ Sam Harris, 'Letter to a Christian Nation'

Let's hear from somebody of the same stripe and mind-set as our PRESENT Commander in Chief...

“My responsibility is to follow the Scriptures which call upon us to occupy the land until Jesus returns.” ~ James Watt, Former (US) Secretary of Interior, Washington Post, May 24, 1981

“We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand.” ~ James Watt, Former (US) Secretary of Interior, Washington Post, May 24, 1981

"I don't know how many future generations we can count on until the Lord returns." ~ James Watt, Former (US) Secretary of Interior, to a Congressional committee in 1981, quoted from "A Brief History of the Apocalypse"

P.S.: Yeah... I know that Pat Paulsen is dead. He was dead the last time I wrote him in, too. Even dead, he's a better choice than any of the lot that we have before us.

Observer writes: "TJ
You say
Observer writes: "I know you are a Muslim hiding behind a Christian name. I read a number of your comments and I know a Muslim when I hear one."
That's the funniest thing I've read here yet.
Moi:
How can you be sure about Mr. Mark’s identity? The fact that he admits his ignorance of the Muslim religion means nothing. Most Muslims are ignorant of their religion’s theology except for some of its rituals."

If you grasp tightly enough, you might actually come away with a straw.

How do I know? Mr Mark makes arguments and points that no religious person makes. He connects dots that those suffering from the affliction of religion cannot, and do not, make.

I've been on both sides of that fence. To put it simply Observer, I know s*** from shinola. You just demonstrated that you don't.

Quaid wrote:

"My friend Robert just converted, and embraced this great Abrahamic faith-Islam."

This converted Robert is from a broken family ? I am amazed how the number of stupid persons are increasing in North America ! How do you guys pull it off, man ? I mean what is that which sells Islam to such ignorants ?

One more potential terrorist (as members of home grown sleeper cells) in North America. The fastest growing social cancer cells seems unstoppable.

Moody, Moody, Moody,

How soon you forget. One more time, a synopsis of religious reality:

A synopsis of the flaws in the founders and foundations of the major religions for those that have not seen them before or did not take the time to look:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a mythical character as was Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.

1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT. simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

3. Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy talking flying fictional thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

4. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/ hallucinating/ plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds these acts of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

5. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) - "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."

The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."
"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

I am delighted that our country looks about to have a choice between two independent-minded candidates (McCain and Obama) neither of whom takes his marching orders from organized religion or its representatives.

For the record, Gary D and Serena are correct. The alliance between McCain and Parsley (and Hagee) is largely political although it is unfortunate that McCain as a Republican cannot distance himself any further from the religious right.

McCain's connection with well-known evangelists is political, and that connection's religious aspects are not pertinent to his views. Obama's connection with Rev. Wright is personal, and that connection's political aspects are not pertinent to his views. Got that?

As a Catholic I sympathize with the dilemma both face. I am not willing to disavow the supportive and life-affirming functions of my church, but its leaders are incapable of speaking for what is in my own heart.

Sorry Mr. Rod Parsley and the few who follow his extreme hate campaign; Islam is the fastest growing religion on the planet earth specifically in North America and Canada. My friend Robert just converted, and embraced this great Abrahamic faith-Islam. Read the Quran, read Michael Hearts book on the "100 most influential people", read the great things that Bernard Shaw Lewis has to say about Islam etc. etc…these are non-Muslims…as the saying goes, “The strongest testimony is from those who don’t believe.” And yes, Jesus (peace be upon him) will come again (that’s why God says in the Majestic Quran that he was not crucified but taken to the heavens). Muslims believe in his second coming! “Read in the name of your Lord who created” Quran. That’s the advice of our creator and the first verse that was revealed to the seal of the Prophets-Muhammad (peace be upon him). Two books I highly recommend on the Empire of Faith-Islam are: “The Vision of Islam” by Sachiko Murata,William C. Chittick, and “Unveiling Islam” by Du Pasquier translated from the French by T.J. Winter. Remember ignorance is darkness!

Reverend Parsley and McCain are right about Islam. Quran [002:216],[004:095],[005:033],[009:005],[009:029],[047:004] are examples of tolerance and respect that Islam advocates for non-Muslims.

It needs destruction and that shall soon be the fate of Islam.

ISLAM IS A BARBARIC RELIGION.

Good question!

Can Christians ANSWER my below questions to PROVE if Christianity is false religion or not?
And to ALSO prove that Christianity is the ORIGINAL religion that Jesus (A.S) had and followed??

Jesus (A.S) said my father is greater than me.
Also said my God is a Jealous God.
Also said I do every thing with the Will of my God (father).
He also said I do not come to change but to confirm the (Jewish) Law. (His this saying tells that Jesus (A.S) came ONLY for Jews, but they did the same to him what they did to there previous apostles/ prophets)
My question TO THE CHRISTIAN WORLD IS DOES JESUS (A.S.) EVER ONCE SAID, I CAME TO GIVE MY SACRIFICE FOR YOUR SINS?
Instead JESUS (A.S) SAID, """"who break one Law will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven""".

DID OR HAVE CHRISTIANS EVER FOLLOWED WHAT JESUS (A.S) SAID??
DID YOU EVER FOLLOW THE LAW??

HE ALSO PROSTRATED AND PRAYED, my question is TO WHOM???
My another question is DOES CHRISTIANS "EVER" prayed and prostrated like Jesus (A.S) to his God (Father)?
One more IMPORTANT question, did Jesus (A.S) ever said I’m god worship me? Anywhere in Christian records or in ANY VERSION of the Bible?

THE WORST WAY OF CALLING NAME TO THE ALMIGHTY CREATOR:

When Christians say that Jesus (A.S) was the only BEGOTTEN son and not MADE like Adam (A.S) or like all other creatures or creations? (Like when and what God wishes, it happened- e.g., didn’t Adam and Eva was created, the whole world is created, WHY NOT JESUS (A.S)?)
What are you insinuating??? That God Almighty Him self came down to perform the lowest form of animal act like dog, donkey or monkey, i.e., sexual reproduction?
And on top of it Jesus (A.S) was His begotten son not legitimate????????
THAT IS THE WORST KIND OF ABUSE AND NAMING ANY BODY COULD HAVE DIRECTED TOWARDS THE GOD ALMIGHTY!!
Well down you so called CHRISTIAN believers??
You are getting your rewards in this world and will definitely get infinitely here after!!!!!!

YOUR BEST OF BEST ARE PREIST, BISHOP, CARDINAL AND POP AND NUNS RIGHT!

You say Nuns don't marry there whole life b/cause they are married to the Father. Alright!

My Question is Your Priest up to Pop, are they also married to the Father?????
Extremely Natural concept, behavior or shall I say believe????

One more IMPORTANT question to Christians!

Did Jesus(A.S) ever said, I'm god worship me?

Any where in your records or in ANY version of Bible?

Good question!
Can Christians reply my below questions to PROVE if Christianity is false religion or not?
And to ALSO prove that it is the ORIGINAL religion that Jesus (A.S) had and followed??

Jesus (A.S) said my father is greater than me.
Also said my God is a Jealous God.
Also said I do every thing with the Will of my God(father.
He also said I do not come to change but to confirm the (Jewish)Law. (His this saying tells that Jesus (A.S) came only for Jews, but they did the same to him what they did to there previous apostles/ prophets)
My question TO THE CHRISTIAN WORLD IS DOES JESUS (A.S.) EVER ONCE SAID, I CAME TO GIVE MY SACRIFICE FOR YOUR SINS?
Instead JESUS (A.S) SAID, """"who break one Law will not enter the kingdom of Heaven""".

DID OR HAVE CHRISTIANS EVER FOLLOWED WHAT JESUS (A.S) SAID??????? DID YOU EVER FOLLOWED THE LAW??

HE ALSO PROSTRATED AND PRAYED, my question is TO WHOM???
My another question is DOES CHRISTIANS "EVER" prayed and prostrated like Jesus (a.s) to his God (Father)?

THE WORST WAY OF CALLING NAME TO THE ALMIGHTY CREATOR:

When Christians say that Jesus (A.S) was the only BEGOTTEN son and not MADE like Adam (A.S) or like all other creatures or creations? (Like when and what God wishes, it happened- e.g., didn’t Adam and Eva was created, the whole world is created, WHY NOT JESUS (A.S)?)
What are you insinuating??? That God Almighty Him self came down to perform the lowest form of animal act like dog, donkey or monkey, i.e., sexual reproduction?
And on top of it Jesus (A.S) was His begotten son not legitimate????????
THAT IS THE WORST KIND OF ABUSE AND NAMING ANY BODY COULD HAVE DIRECTED TOWARDS THE GOD ALMIGHTY!!
Well down you so called CHRISTIAN believers??
You are getting your rewards in this world and will definitely get infinitely here after!!!!!!

YOUR BEST OF BEST ARE PREIST, BISHOP, CARDINAL AND POP AND NUNS RIGHT!

You say Nuns don't marry there whole life b/cause they are married to the Father. Alright!

My Question is Your Priest up to Pop, are they also married to the Father?????

Extremely Natural concept, behavior or shall I say believe????

The difference between Rev. Wright and Rev. Parsley is more than just the difference in the distance from the candidate.

It's the difference between a liar and someone who honestly reports what he sees.

Rev. Wright is a liar. We have seen tapes of him telling slanderous lies about historical fact. They are important lies, too, because as a result, the black community is notoriously suspicious of the government and has the highest rate of new HIV infections.

Rev. Parsley is merely taking the writings of the irhabists and other evildoers at their face value. Those evil people claim to represent the true face of Islam. Some of the writers are prominent members of the faith.

Just this week, for example, the Washington Post reported that Saudi King Abdullah delivered a little-noticed but "potentially momentous" statement calling for an interfaith dialogue among Saudi Muslims, Christians and Jews. Saying he had the support of the official Saudi clergy, King Abdullah said "the idea is to ask representatives of all monotheistic religions to sit together with their brothers in faith and sincerity to all religions as we all believe in the same god."

***********

Although the Post did not report a specific statement to this effect, this statement is being taken as a repudiation of the latest idiotic Wahabbi fatwa, by Sheik Abdul-Rahman al-Barak, calling for the murder of Abdullah bin Bejad al-Otaibi and Yousef Aba al-Khail, for publishing articles in a well-known Saudi newspaper, al-Riyadh. They have taken the position that Muslims need not regard adherents of other faiths, such as Christians and Jews, as apostates.

Rev. Parsley can point to the writings of Muslims that claim to make the teachings he says they do. Rev. Wright has been making up lies out of thin air, jealousy, envy and bile.

Deb Chatterjee:

I don't understand why when you cite Prophet Mohammed you immediately follow it up by writing (Peace Be Upon Him). I meant to ask you this for a long time. I can understand Victoria or one of the cyber-Muslims here to do that (brainwashed as they are) but what motivates you? Do you really care?

In Hinduism we believe that each man earns his own peace according to his karma. So as a Hindu I don't understand this Peace-Be-Upon-Him business. If he was a true master, he already attained peace the day he passed away. He does not need other Muslims to say "Peace Be Upon Him", as if repeating it somehow increases his chances for attaining it now. It's strange to say the least.

Mr. Mark
You advise me to read a book once in a while, while in the same breath admit that your knowledge about the ideology that poses an existentialist threat to the whole Western Civilization is “superficial at best”. If you simply read some of my posts your knowledge of Islam would be substantially more than ”superficial”. At the same time you behave as if you know more about Christian history than all the Bible scholars and those who wrote about that history throughout the past 2008 years (and not 1500, as you maintain.)
You “debunk"? ’my claims about the martyrdom of all the original disciples by alleging their execution was due to their “obstinacy”. Supposing that was true, but what called the attention of the authorities to these simple people in the first place? Is it not because they were preaching a Gospel that was considered by the ROMANS AS A THREAT TO THEIR RELIGION AND TO THEIR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT?
You don’t seem to be aware of the contradictions between your original claim; that ‘Jesus did not exist”, and the later claim about his followers.

TJ
You say
Observer writes: "I know you are a Muslim hiding behind a Christian name. I read a number of your comments and I know a Muslim when I hear one."
That's the funniest thing I've read here yet.
Moi:
How can you be sure about Mr. Mark’s identity? The fact that he admits his ignorance of the Muslim religion means nothing. Most Muslims are ignorant of their religion’s theology except for some of its rituals.

The philosophical framework of Islam is so backward and narrow-minded that it will probably not survive in its current form. Islam will be forced to undergo a reform just to survive. How long can narrow-mindedness go on in this age of enlightment and globalization? That whole religion is out of sync with the rest of human civilization. Just consider the following:

1. No freedom of contemplation and self-criticism. Hence, no fresh ideas and no chance for a broadening of views.

2. Terrible treatment of minorities. If you look around you will find that Islamic countries tend to have a very high concentration of Muslims. Very few Islamic countries have any sizeable proportion of minorities. This shows that Islam does not tolerate and respect diversity. If they have a minority, they get rid of them quite fast.

3. Islamic countries tend to be theocracies. None of them can be called truly secular. By truly secular I mean you can fnd minorities in positions of significant power in the political and economic life of the country. All Muslims countries will fail that test. Why? Because they think that Muslims are superior to everyone else and that others don't deserve to exercise any power in their countries. (But the paradox is Muslims want to make a life and do well with all rights intact in countries of the kafirs). This is the height of hypocrisy.

4. Muslims believe in dogmas without the ability to question. Anyone who dares to question any dogma is subject to an immediate fatwa from some idiotic mullah sitting somewhere.

5. There is a tendency for Muslims to demand a seperate state as soon as they are in majority anywhere. This complete inability to live with others is amazing. So Deb Chatterjee is quite right. We will admit Muslims in America at our own peril.

6. The Sharia is a barbaric set of laws that is unmatched even by the Mafia culture. No civilized nation on earth should even talk about granting it legitimacy. Sharia should be outlawed forthwith from all civilized countries in this world.

Dear Observer -

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not a Muslim. Indeed, I must confess that my knowledge of Islam is superficial at best.

No, you're off the mark, so to speak. I was raised Lutheran, but I spent many years as a professional singer, so I am well acquainted with the liturgical practices of the Anglicans, Methodists, Presbyterians, Catholics, assorted other Xian sects and the Jews, as well.

As far as your paragraph on "Christian persecution": you do know, do you not, that the legends of the 12 disciples dying horrible deaths are just that, legends? There's no proof of any kind for these stories which were born-of and circulate-within the church as apocryphal nonsense meant to bolster the delusions of the willingly deceived (and as your silly post so readily testifies, it seems to still work, even 1500 years after the fact!).

As far as Xians being fed to the lions - the stuff of Hollywood, not history. As far as Xians willing to die for their faith, the historical documentation indicates that just as many (or more) were more than happy to renounce their faith if it meant saving their skins. Example: Pliny's letter to Trajan, CE112:

"Meanwhile, in the case of those who were denounced to me as Christians, I have observed the following procedure: I interrogated these as to whether they were Christians; those who confessed I interrogated a second and a third time, threatening them with punishment; those who persisted I ordered executed. For I had no doubt that, whatever the nature of their creed, stubbornness and inflexible obstinacy surely deserve to be punished. There were others possessed of the same folly; but because they were Roman citizens, I signed an order for them to be transferred to Rome.

"Soon accusations spread, as usually happens, because of the proceedings going on, and several incidents occurred. An anonymous document was published containing the names of many persons. Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ--none of which those who are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do--these I thought should be discharged. Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. ***They all worshipped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ.****

"They asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food--but ordinary and innocent food. Even this, they affirmed, they had ceased to do after my edict by which, in accordance with your instructions, I had forbidden political associations. Accordingly, I judged it all the more necessary to find out what the truth was by torturing two female slaves who were called deaconesses. But I discovered nothing else but depraved, excessive superstition."
Letter to Trajan; Pliny the Younger, 112

Notice that these people were persecuted NOT because they were Xian, but because, "whatever the nature of their creed, stubbornness and inflexible obstinacy surely deserve to be punished."

Sorry to see you're so wedded to myth. It happens, but it's also curable (hint: open a book once in a while).

Observer writes: "I know you are a Muslim hiding behind a Christian name.I read a number of your comments and I know a Muslim when I hear one."

That's the funniest thing I've read here yet.

In 1937 Winston Churchill said of Palastenians:

I do not agree that the dog in a manager has the final right to the manager,evevn though he may have lain there for a very long time.I do not admit that right.I do not admit, for instance,that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America,or the black people of Australia.I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race,a higher grade race,a more wordly-wise race,to put it that way,has come in and taken their place

Quoted in Editorial 'Scurrying Towards Bethlehem',New Left Review10,2nd series, July/August2001 p.9,n.5

Hitler first made Germans believe Jews were bad boys.Then he could easily justify holocaust.Now Bush and Mac cain wants to justify not only millions of deaths including women and children in Iraq but also deaths of thousands of American soldiers.Similar things are repeated in Palastine and Gujarat.

The term anti-American is used by the American establishment to discredit and define its critics

Ahmed, Ahmed, Ahmed,

Eliminate the 800 year old blood feud between the Sunnis and Shiites, and we will be able to bring our troops home.

Hmmm, Iraq Sunni minority, Shiite majority, 24/7 blood letting, 4000 American soldiers dead, 90,000 Iraqi civilians dead.

Iran, Shiite theocracy, 24/7 support of global terror.

Saudi Arabia, Sunni theocracy and the terror supporting "Wannabees".

OBL, Sunni/"Wannabee" madman, 24/7 support of global terror.

Fill in the answers below:

Hamas, Sunni or Shiite??

Fatah, Sunni or Shiite??

Pakistan, Sunni or Shiite? Which group assassinated Bhutto??

Malaysia, nearing a Sunni theocracy?

Bahrain, Sunni or Shiite???

Phillipines, Sunni or Shiite???

Taliban, Sunni or Shiite???

Somalia, Sunni or Shiite???

And it could all be stopped by simply deflawing the koran!!!!!!

So Ahmed we should leave you to your own devises knowing full well that every so often the crazies like Osama will leak out to damage the rest of the world because the clowns running most countries in the Middle East are busy playing the old misdirection game.

Mr. Mark
You say:
"How do we know that Jesus existed?"
I know you are a Muslim hiding behind a Christian name. I read a number of your comments and I know a Muslim when I hear one. Therefore the short answer will be read your Quran. Well you don't believe that collection of myths? Neither do I. Then let us tackle the question from a different perspective.
The Dead Sea scrolls had all the books of the Old Testament except one;Esther. In the book of Isaiah who lived about 700 years before the time of Jesus there are many prophesies about Jesus. Christians rely heavily on that book and to a lesser degree on the psalms of King David in deciphering the prophecies about Jesus. The Jewish historian Josephus lived during the first Century AD , and while he was born few years after Jesus resurrection, yet he was very aware of him and his movement. He witnessed the Jewish and Roman persecution of his followers. The history of the Church have record of many of the early Christian martyrs as described below.

“Christian Persecution: Many of the Early Disciples Died for their Faith
Christian persecution was a dramatic part of early church history. For anyone who holds that the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ was a man-made hoax conspired by a group of disciples should check out the legacy of martyrdom. Eleven of the 12 apostles, and many of the other early disciples, died for their adherence to this story. This is dramatic, since they all witnessed the alleged events of Jesus and still went to their deaths defending their faith. Why is this dramatic, when many throughout history have died martyred deaths for a religious belief? Because people don’t die for a lie. Look at human nature throughout history. No conspiracy can be maintained when life or liberty is at stake. Dying for a belief is one thing, but numerous eye-witnesses dying for a known lie is quite another.”

How do we know that Moses existed? Because of the dramatic change in the lives of the Hebrew tribe. The dramatic change in the culture of the civilized world could not be explained except by a cosmic event which is the teachings of a humble carpenter from Galilee.

Garyd

Its non of your business to send troops thousands of miles to want to rid the world of evil. Who do you think you are, for God's sake?

Try taking care of your own poor and sick, 70 millions of them without health insurance. Take care of Catrina victims and those who sleep on park benches and those who have been done in with billions of their retirement savings.

Holier than though. Your foreign policy of interference has created many enemies for yourself and you are too blind and stubborn to see that. 50 years of major interference in our affairs.

Tell me if Russia and China had military bases right next to your coastlines and supported every thug and dropped bombs on you almost every day and year, How would you re-act?

Please be honest and just answer this question. So far you have ducked my straight questions. Please just answer this one, once.

Wake up and mind your own business. Then great things happen. It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with politics and PR which your Zionist controlled media are very good at. Amazing how people spend billion and all their energy to skew facts and invent stuff.

If a quarter of that money and energy were put towards eradicating disease and hunger and educating the masses we would be true to our spirit of humanity BUT we descend to our lower animal desires and YOU my friend support it with your tax money and believe in it.

Take a close look at yourself instead of trying to change others.

Peace brother.

Islam is indeed a false religion, to put it mildly. It is a barbaric, violent religion. Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) said that he would bring slaughter on the Quraish tribe because they did not give up their old pagan ways and converted to Islam. There is no freedom of religion, in the central doctrine of Islam. All must somehow convert to Islam.

Thus, Islam needs to be eliminated from the face of the earth, and Senator John McCain's pastor is right on the money. However elimination of Islam should not be interpreted to mean bring pogrom on Muslims.

Islam can be attacked and weakened significantly by constantly challenging its positions on various matters, and showing that western civilization of personal freedoms are far more superior/progressive than the barbaric theocracy that Islam offers. Islam is extremely scared and sensitive of any criticism; it commands that the ones who criticize Islam (meaning Allah's Message) must be put to death. (See Quran [005:033].)

This position is just diametrically at odds with what the western concept of freedom is. So, the challenge to the West is to constantly engage in a propaganda to show how Islam debases the very human existence by choking off all forms of freedoms in the name of a unseen, bloodthirsty deity called Allah who is always energized to destroy humans fearing who might disrespect him. Everyone must submit before that deity else blood shall flow ...

That in essence is Islam. It means peace that follows after unconditional submission to the Supreme Will (of Allah).

Reverend Parsley is right if he has at all called for the complete destruction of Islam. Anything else would be inappropriate. The whole objective of the civilized world would be to weaken Islam till it dies a slow death - meaning Muslims and others must be persuaded/encouraged to abandon the barbaric religion of Islam and seek other forms of spiritual development.

Thanks to Reverend Parsley for being so forthright. May God bless Reverend Parsley and Senator John McCain.

Who is Rev. Parsley - or anyone, for that matter - to say what is a "true" religion and what is a "false" one? Many religious beliefs have come and gone in the history of humankind. Christianity and Islam are new kids on the block when compared to Buddhism, Shinto, Zoroastrianism, etc. If you get right down to it, our "true" religion would be what the Native Americans believe - all life is sacred, has a spirit, and has something to teach us.

It's incredible how intellectually dishonest this question is. As Mr. Meacham and Ms. Quinn certainly know (or would know if they had done any fact checking), Rev. Parsley has never called for the destruction of Islam.

In his best-selling book "Silent No More," Rev. Parsley writes of Islam, "I do not believe our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam. I know that this statement sounds extreme, but I do not shrink from its implications. The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore."

Far cry from calling for the destruction of a religion, isn't it? And "Silent No More" has been circulating in Washington for almost three years. Yet Mr. Meacham and Ms. Quinn have misquoted Rev. Parsley in such a way that the panelists, if they were presented the question before they wrote their posts, were sure to misunderstand the true issues at hand.

There are only two possible conclusions to draw re: Mr. Meacham's and Ms. Quinn's mis-represntation of Rev. Parsley's views. One is that they are ignorant and intellectually lazy, and the other is that they have willfully slandered one of Christianity's leading voices in the public square. I do not believe the former is true, so I am left to conclude the latter.

And in summary, apply the Five F rule: "First Find the Flaws, then Fix the Foundations".

And finally there will be religious peace in the world!!!!!

Parsley calls Islam a false religion which should be destroyed? How does he know the truth or falsity of this or that religion? I thought religion depends on faith...And destroy falsity? Is not falsity automatically by being falsity standing on ground which is not firm? Why bother trying to destroy what is not on firm ground? Will it not fall of itself and reveal what is behind if anything? A pursuit of truth seems a more worthwhile occupation, and before truth it seems we all stand on false ground. No one knows the truth...And we had better hope truth arrives and falsity just slips away. It would be terrible to have to fight falsity, to fight ironically what does not stand on firm ground. Fighting falsity is just what we do not want to do...We want to pursue truth.

Angela says that Fox News does not do tabloid stories.

But what stories like the dissapperance of Natalie Holloway in Aruba, that was carried every single solitary night, for over a year???

And there are many other such stories.

Fox News - an oxymoron if ever there was one.

TJ sez:
"Angela writes: "yep, I watch Fox News."

Or, "Faux News," as we call it in my neck-of-the-woods.

Angela writes: "yep, I watch Fox News"

Now there is a real shocker.

mr mark,thats funny. you resemble that remark eh? i guess what i would say is that if a person applied that same rules of evidence to the ancients recording about christians as some secular historians apply to other ancient manuscripts that they find plausable,i think a person would find that it's pretty possible Jesus existed. that said ,i kick the dust from my sandals.(i mean my linemans boots)

Joet,

Yes, you're right; no poltician can stop someone from endorsing them but again, I say, you don't have to sit in the pews for 20+ years of someone who's main goal at worship service is to entertain and rile people up with emotionalism instead of teaching the word of God. In addition, I have to say: you're wrong about the 30 seconds: Sean Hannity interviewed Jeremiah Wright last March and he had the same type of comments but the media ignored it and then approximately the first week of March 2008 on a Sunday night which I watched (yep, I watch Fox News); Sean Hannity featured almost an hour of his rantings which took up most of the show. No, I wouldn't say that FoxNews is self-righteous; they haven't endorsed anyone but they are not stuck on jaded, left-wing, tabloid stories and nor do their journalists pick and choose what they'd publish to suit their own political choices. News and journalism has gone way to the left and there's no such thing as fair, moral, balanced truth anymore; just half truths to fit their own political desires.

When someone says Islam must be destroyed, you know that they have not given their comment much consideration, have not reflected upon its implications, and do not even realize what they are saying. It is like, when people say, "we should nuke Iraq" so that we can win the war. People open their mouths and talk, but without meaning or purpose, but just to talk. It's too bad but that's how it is. And here, people get their itchy fingers a-typin' on the keyboard, and all kinds of nonsensical silliness comes bubbleing up. But what do these many silly and thoughtless comments indicate, but that they are just babbling blow-hards, who perhaps feel bad, and want others to feel bad too. I harldy think this sort of mindless babble need be the subject of a whole debate.

gary sez:

"i can't figure out why mr. mark would waste so much time argiuing with us losers."

Who knows? He's probably a loser himself.

Hey, wait a minute...that's me you're talking about!

Allow me a question in return: why are so many believers unable to give direct and cogent answers to simple questions they are asked by the likes of Mr Mark, preferring to ignore his questions entirely while posting some sidebar that has little if anything to do with the discussion at hand?

i can't figure out why mr. mark would waste so much time argiuing with us losers.

Not the way I heard it. They offered he was in state campaigning already Parsley was on the podium with McCain. This does not mean they are joined at the hip. Nor does it make McCain responsible for their every utterance any more than Obama is responsible for the Cretins at the Daily Kos or the Huffington Post who by the way are in general far more vitriolic and hateful than Parsley ever thought of being.

Angela: no one can control who endorses them, and I don't even expect politicians to bother distancing themselves from unsolicited endorsers. McCain SOUGHT the endorsements of Hagee and others, and travelled to their churches to appear on camera and speak together with them. And he sought them for political purposes.

Even Fox can find only 30 seconds of Wright comments worth their smug, self righteous indignation (and you can get years on CDs). Others have defended what he said on the merits (even the HIV remark, though ridiculous, has a real rhetorical basis in the syphillis experiments on blacks) but the point is that he's not nearly so radical as he's been caricatured (even listening to the remainder of the sermons in question would give anyone but Hannity a different perspective).

D ROSE:
You have to remember that everyone who has eaten cucumbers 150 years ago is now dead. I predict with an utmost certainty that everyone who eats cucumbers today will also die.
I say we ban eating, before it's too late.

You HAVE to remember that all extremists and terrorists are PRIMARILY MEN - wherever at home or abroad. So it is a logical step that having balls can be easily carried into extremism.
I say we cut 'em (starting with yours).

Alot of what alot of people say about alot of things is just "babbling;" just talk, for talk's sake, without any real intent or thinking behind it. So when someone says that Islam should be destroyed, that, to me, is just "babble." And that is how many people, regard alot of what preachers and priests say in church; that goes as well for the Islamic and Jewish clergy, and for alot of the people who comment here, on this subject, in particular.

When someone is babbling, they are actually distressed and confused; so why argue with them? The points they make have no point, and arguing with babbling just makes more babbling, and is futile.

Yes, Islam will be a major factor in this election, simply because of the war in which we are currently involved. Presidential candidates have different opinions on different issues- that is why they are running against each other. The Democrats have a decidedly different viewpoint on most issues compared with the Republicans. That is what makes the difference between the two parties. Whether or not Obama has any Islamic ties through his family is not necessarily an issue, but it is an issue how the candidates will respond to threats. There is nothing that Americans can do to stop extremists in the Middle East HOWEVER, it is very likely that extremists, which are usually Muslim, will want to terrorize America within the next four years. It is a proven fact that the extremists who want to destroy America are Muslim, but just because they are Muslim does not mean that all Muslims are extremists, but we must remember that thus far, all attacks have been carried out by Muslims, whether nationalized, citizens, or foreigners within western nations. So, no, McCain should not renounce Parsley if that is what he believes too- he has to believe what he believes and he has to take a stand. If we do not have a President that is willing to take a stand,then we should not have them as President. I do not care who is President- they must be strong. Also, you have to remember that people sometimes agree on most things, but disagree on small issues. So, maybe he does not believe Islam should be destroyed, but we HAVE to remember that the extremists are PRIMARILY MUSLIM- whether at home or abroad. So it is a logical step that the foundation of the Muslim belief can be easily carried into extremism.

I'm naive and ignorant??? And you're buying agitprop like there is a fire sale. We are responsible for Saddam to the extent that we didn't kill his sorry butt 2 days after he exited the womb. And even if we were aren't we at least responsible for first containing and then cleaning up the mess we made? You can't have it both ways.

Who should we support in Saudi? What's the best choice between Religious crazies an and slightly less religious crazies and assorted thugs? As I said in the other thread Out side of Turkey there are few places in the Middle East where enough decant human beings in the general vicinity of positions of power to matter. Again it is not the fault of the West that Islam seems always to move from bad to worse in terms of Governance.

We had naval vessels in the Persian Gulf during the Iran- Iraq War because the Saudis asked us to. We had no ground units in the Middle East until after Saddam attacked Kuwait.

Oh and one last thing if we armed Saddam to the teeth why is it that virtually all of his ground equipment was ex-Warsaw Pact crap and his Airforce was an 80-20 mix of Warsaw pact and French aircraft? As best as I can find the most we gave him was a couple of batteries of obsolescent hawk anti aircraft Missiles. And the US French and Germans gave him limited amounts of Chemical weapons largely because we liked the theocrats in Iran even less than we liked Saddam.

Bigotry should never be confused with the institution. I have always equated religion with bigots, and science with open-mindedness. Then I got to do some science and found the very same top-management-politicize-everything-by-rote kinda talk.
I call it survival of the stupidest - the world is easier to deal with the simpler it is.

Bigotry should never be confused with the institution. I have always equated religion with bigots, and science with open-mindedness. Then I got to some science and found the very same top-management-politicize-everything-by-rote kinda talk.
I call it survival of the stupidest - the world is easier to deal with the simpler it is.

An update (or how we are spending or have spent USA taxpayers’ money to eliminate global terror and aggression)

First A Partial Body Count from Recent Violence

1a) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto

1b) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

2) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, 4000 US troops and 82,109 – 89,605 Iraqi civilians iraqbodycount.org/

3) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

4) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

5) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

6) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

7) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

Other elements of our War on Terror and Aggression:

1. Saddam, his sons and major henchmen have been deleted. Saddam's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes.

2. Iran is being been contained. (besides containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)

3. Libya has become almost civil. Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “crazies” as they recently threatened Libya. OBL sure is a disgrace to the world especially the Moslem world!!! or is he????

4. North Korea is still uncivil but is contained. With the opening up of rail traffic between North and South Korea after 50 years and with the assistance of the US Navy in retrieving NK ships and personnel, a fresh sense of civility is afoot.

One of the most eminent US cultural institutions, the New York Philharmonic Orchestra, has performed a landmark concert in North Korea.
The concert included music by Western composers and a Korean folk song, and was broadcast live on local television.

Unfortunately, North Korea’s apparent move toward peace did not last long as they fired test missiles last week and threatened South Korea with military action this week.

5. Northern Ireland is finally at peace.

6. The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords and the Annapolis Peace Conference is at least somewhat successful.

7. Bin Laden has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.

8. Fanatical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghahistan and Pakistan.

9.Timothy McVeigh was executed. Terry Nichols will follow soon.

10. Eric Rudolph is spending three life terms in prison with no parole.

11. Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.

12. Islamic Sudan, Darfur and Somalia are still terror hot spots.

13. The terror and torture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends.

14. And of course the bloody terror and aggression brought about by the Japanese, Nazis and Communists were with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys. The Japs and Nazis definitely would have taken control of all the Arab oil wealth had they not been stopped.

garyd

you shwed yourself to be so naive and ignorant of Middle East history, past and present. Here is what you said:

"We had troops in the Middle East to defend Saudi from Saddam."

a) Your government created Saddam. He is your monster. Remember you armed him to his teethe to fight Iran for 8 years.

b) Your troops have longer history in Saudi than Saddam's turning point.

c) How come with your so much boasting of your democracy, you support despots like Saudi dictatorship? This has been US foreign policy in Middle East for the last 50 odd years. Wake up and read. Iran, Gulf Arabs, Jordan, Iraq, Egypt, Morocco, Pakistan and anywhere else your wish to secure your "interests" and those of your "allies" - politics language for Israel. You run roughshod over every poor native to get your "interests" but your leaders never spell that interest out in plain terms. May you can tell us whats your interest in dominating us by force? After all you are much much more powerful than all of us put together. But my friend might is not always right.

This is major gripe that many of us have with you. You install leaders to rule us against our wills and arm them brutally against us and then preach to us of democracy. In some quarters this is called 'hypocrisy".

Its like taking a kid to a lolly store but slapping his hand if he asks for a lolly, if your brain can see this comparison? Cheers.

For Mike Brooks:

Have "the authorities" allowed carbon dating of the Dead Sea Scrolls?? They hadn't a few years ago and I'm not aware of it if they have now. It really doesn't take much logic to know the answer in that circumstance.

According to 2 Kings 22:8 and 23:2 during the reign of King Josiah the High Priest Hilkiak 'found' the Book of the Law and the Book of the Covenant in the temple and gave it to Shaphan, Josiah's secretary and then Josiah read them to the people confirming the law and the covenant and then order the people to celebrate the 'Feast of the Passover'.

Nothing new in the technique, just used goats and a goat herder instead of a high priest and the king's secretary.

Part of 'the system' is to tell or write something that is preposterous and then maintain it is true.

Christie, Christie, Christie,

You remind us of the "bible thumping" Spiderman2/Canyon Shearer".

Observation:

Fools are those who have read only the bible. God cannot be proud of such lazy creations!!!!

To reiterate:

The reality of it all is that the "pew sitters" and "bowers" are coming to grips with the flaws in their religions and in ten years the religions of today will be unrecognizable or extinct as the "pretty and ugly wingie flying thingies" are finally buried in the piles of utter stupidity.

And why is that? Because frankly sir the style of governance Islam chose to saddle itself with hasn't changed since before Muhammad was buried. In short The west Democratized while Islam became more and more Despot ridden and fell further and further behind to the point that by the years between WWI and WWII The Arabian world required Western aid to find let alone drill for the oil that lies under all that sand. In short your problems are of your own creation, yet your leaders seek to blame everyone else for the problems they have created because they fear what would happen to them should the people they misrule ever direct their righteous wrath to the place it belongs instead of on to other parties.

That being said those in favor of Democracy and prosperity in the Middle East are all to few and far between. Far and away the number one problem the West has in trying to figure out how to deal with Islamic countries is that by and large there is a dearth of good options. We get to choose between religious nuts like Osama bin Laden Thugocracys as in Syria & Saddam's Iraq and the best of the lot seem to be antiquated kingdoms ruled by divine right as no country in the west has been troubled by in more than a century.

We had troops in the Middle East to defend Saudi from Saddam. To thank us for going to so much trouble and shedding our blood to protect his holy of holies from being defiled by the thuggish Saddam Hussein the equally lamentable Osama bin Laden destroyed six buildings and damage others in a mindless terror plot which simply meant that he and the equally thuggish Taliban rather than being left to complete their conquest and destruction of Afghansitan and its People they were defeated and forced to flee into Pakistan from which they launch infrequent raids that kill 10 Muslims for every Western fighter they kill. And to what purpose? That they might go back to destroying the people of the nation of Afghanistan

gary sez:

"mr. mark,you stated you don't believe Jesus even existed. you would have a few historical records to argue with besides the bible to prove that."

Care to recite the usual, decades-after-the-fact, third- and fourth-party, long-disproved non-Biblical "historical" sources? I know them all: Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny, Suetonius (none of them definitive and all of them highly suspect) while not a peep from Philo, the prolific Jewish historian who WAS alive when Jesus supposedly walked the Earth?

Go ahead. Make my day. What "historical records" did you have in mind?

Dear Mike -

FYI, my source for the dating of ancient Biblical texts is the website "Early Christian Writings," which I have been told is very reliable (please correct me if I'm mistaken). This website shows all of Pauls' writings to precede the Gospels with Mark being the first Gospel written no earlier than 65CE. Matthew and Luke were written no earlier than 80CE and John no earlier than 90CE.

Again, I'd like to know your sources that claim earlier dates of composition.

Mike Brooks writes:

"Mr Mark - You have a couple of problems with your time-line. There are fragments of Mark and John, found in Egypt, that can be reliably dated to around 40 AD. Moreover, amoungst the "Dead Sea Scrolls" there are entire OT books that date from *before* the time of Christ and those editions match "modern" editions."

Utter hogwash. Name your sources for your claims. "Reliably dated???" What do the OT books being from before the time of Christ have to do with whether or not Jesus actually lived?

This subject has been thoroughly explained on this blog many, many times and the evidence the Biblical apologists continue to offer up runs the gamut from wishful thinking unabashed BS.

Again, name your sources for your totally unsupportable claims.

Mr Mark - You have a couple of problems with your time-line. There are fragments of Mark and John, found in Egypt, that can be reliably dated to around 40 AD. Moreover, amoungst the "Dead Sea Scrolls" there are entire OT books that date from *before* the time of Christ and those editions match "modern" editions.

Thousands of crimes are committed in the name of religion. Warfare, terrorism, and corruption are perpetrated by those who claim to serve God. Religion seems to be at the root of so many problems.

The fault lies, not with all religion, but with false religion. A widely respected religious figure, Jesus Christ, indicated that false religion produces bad works, just as a “rotten tree produces worthless fruit.” (Matthew 7:15-17)

False religion meddles in war and politics. A prominent religious leader in the United States declared: “You’ve got to kill the terrorists before the killing stops.” His solution? “Blow them all away in the name of the Lord.” By contrast, the Bible says: “If anyone makes the statement: ‘I love God,’ and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar.” (1 John 4:20) Jesus even said: “Continue to love your enemies.” (Matthew 5:44)

False religion spreads false doctrine. Most religions teach that the soul or spirit is some invisible part of a human that survives the death of the physical body. By means of this teaching, many of these religions exploit their members, charging money to pray for departed souls. However, the Bible teaches a different doctrine. “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (Ezekiel 18:4) “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5) Jesus taught that the dead will be resurrected—an unnecessary action if humans had an immortal soul. (John 11:11-25)

Jesus warned: “Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire.” (Matthew 7:19) According to the Bible, false religion will be chopped down and destroyed. A prophetic vision recorded in the Bible book of Revelation, chapters 17 and 18, explains how and when this will happen.

False religion exerts influence “over the kings of the earth”. And yet, this influence will end along with all false religion.

In the Bible book of Revelation, a harlot is sitting on the back of a fearsome beast. The beast has seven heads and ten horns. (Revelation 17:1-4) The harlot exerts influence “over the kings of the earth.” She dresses in purple, uses incense, and is exceedingly wealthy. In addition, by means of her spiritistic practice, ‘all the nations are misled.’ (Revelation 17:18; 18:12, 13, 23) The Bible helps us to see that this harlot is a worldwide religious entity. She depicts, not any one religion, but all religions that produce rotten fruit.
The beast that the harlot rides pictures the world’s political powers. (Revelation 17:10-13) False religion straddles the back of this political beast, attempting to influence its decisions and to control its direction.
“The ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.” (Revelation 17:16) In a sudden, shocking move, the world’s political powers will turn on false religion and completely destroy her.The Bible book of Revelation shows what will prompt this action: “God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought.” (Revelation 17:17) God will call false religion to account for all the despicable acts she has committed in his name. In a stroke of perfect justice, he will use her political paramours as his instrument of execution.
If you do not want to share the fate of false religion, you must “Get out of her, my people,” urges God’s messenger. (Revelation 18:4)

According to the Bible, Islam fits the definition of a false religion and it will be destroyed. But almost every so-called Christian religion fits that same definition of false religion. They too will be destroyed. The real question is: How can you identify true religion. The answer is found in the Bible.

True religion produces good fruit.- Matthew 7:17.
True religion practices love. True worshippers are “no part of the world,” are not divided by race or culture, and display ‘love among themselves.’ (John 13:35; 17:16; Acts 10:34, 35) Rather than killing one another, they are willing to die for one another.—1 John 3:16.

True religion trusts God’s Word instead of teaching “tradition” and “commands of men as doctrines,” true religion bases its doctrine on God’s Word, the Bible (Matthew 15:6-9) because “all Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight.”—2 Timothy 3:16.

True religion strengthens families and upholds high moral standards. True religion trains husbands to ‘love their wives as their own bodies,’ helps wives to develop ‘deep respect for their husbands,’ and teaches children to ‘be obedient to their parents.’ (Ephesians 5:28, 33; 6:1) In addition, those entrusted with positions of authority must have exemplary morals.—1 Timothy 3:1-10.

Find the religion that fits this criteria, and you will have found the true religion.

True religion is only a factor in an election where there is mandatory voting that carries punishment for non-compliance. True worshipers will not vote in an election because they support God's Kingdom.

Garyd

You did not answer my question and as predicted run off with 2 thousand year history. If we continue to argue about old history then America should be given back to the natives; likewise Australia, etc.

Fact is there has not been Muslims military bases in foreign countries for the last 100 years, so why rock the boat? Western leaders especially should be honest with their own people and not hide behind lies whilst spending tax money. We on the other hand live in subjugated societies with our leaders protected by your money. There are no democracies, so don't blame people when they retaliate against recent historical aggression. Give them recourse to justice to settle their grievances and there will be no hate mongers and no aggression. And you do not have to have the lofty ideal of eradicating Islam. Look at your own self/history. We live in open societies, so trying to attack people's religion is a wrong approach, especially when it is politics that have created the quagmires. Religion is a resource just as nationality is and both are the refuge of the desperado to muster the masses to fight back. But why fight another human being? Fear is the answer. So look at your own fears and try to deal with them. Do not blame it on others. Those who live in fear build high walls and hide behind immense military powers. They build nukes and do hesitate to drop them on their perceived enemies. The doctrine of fear rules their foreign policy.

Send us your teachers, doctors, men of learning, artists but not soldiers armed to their teeth, coz soldiers know only one thing: to kill and create enemies.

Is that too hard for you to understand? Am tired of repeating myself, since unlike CCNL, I do not do cut and paste.

Jihadist

Thank you my dear. I am fully familiar with Malaysian politics and do follow it. I lived in KL for more than 2 years, in Robson Heights, Federal Highway. Great place, wonderful people. Prayed in many temples, mosques and churches. Everyone was so charming and welcoming.

A Student

You have a good heart. Follow it and have no doubt in yourself. Do not allow others to steer you away from the right path. Love is the only liberating energy. But must come with the innocence of a child. Do not allow yourself to be contaminated with the rubbish that goes around you. There is only ONE Protector and all prophets came to lead us to THAT. They were messengers; couriers, carrying a message of hope first, then once hope was materialised, then love bloomed. Discourse is the killer of that hope and where there is continual discourse, hope is not materialised, thus love can not exist or flourish is such societies; pretty much as a seed can not germinate in barren and parched land.

Yet a lover never looses hope coz that was the doorway that brought him in. The rain will eventually fall and that seed will eventually germinate, even if the seed perishes and feeds that barren earth, for it will become nourishment for that soil which will eventually become fertile as a result of dead seeds who did not relinquish hope.

The Giver of Life has arranged it so. Examples abound in nature. People want miracles and prophecies. They are blind to this existence which in itself is the greatest miracle. They have eyes but are blind as Quran says.

Purify that heart, judge no one and smile in the face of adversity. That is the straight path.

Believe and you shall see but if you insist to see first before believing, then you will never see. That is a spiritual law, pretty much as gravity is a physical law.

Bless you. Peace.

Old Mohammed was said to have toured Heaven (if it exists) and talked to the residing prophets e.g. Abraham, Moses and Jesus. Hmmm, how is that possible if Heaven by the definition of Aquinas is a spirit state?????

As noted by Pope John Paul II and St. Aquinas Heaven (if it exists) is a spirit state i.e. there can be no bones there or bodies to include the theological glorified body. So where are the bones of Jesus? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, buried with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.

Actually Professor Crossan spends little time analyzing the question about glorified bodies since the physical Ascension, according to his analyses and those of many Catholic universitiy theologians and professors, did not take place nor did the apparitions. See his book, The Historical Jesus.

In his book, In Search of Paul p. 343, Crossan did address 1 Cor 15: 44-45, "When buried it is the physical body, when it is raised it will be the spiritual body. "

Bottom line: The ascension of Jesus to Heaven and the his visit there by Mohammed are simply more Christian and Islamic mumbo jumbo to keep us "pew sitters" and "bowers" trapped in our brainwashed minds of many superstitions.

People need and want a 'religion'. The problem is we now know they have been mostly made up by men with agendas. So the order of the day should be to maintain a wall of separation between religious activity and civil society and civil laws in order to maintain a civilized society.

What if the Plato writings, Old and New Testaments, Shakespseare plays, etc, were all written by a continuing organization and they were all made up and attributed to a made up authorship????????????

KLJ writes: "So when Jesus was destroyed in the Crucifixion, the Temple was destroyed."

Destroyed? It's easy to see how a building is destroyed, but the triumphant and risen God-Man, Jesus? Really?

This would seem to be a slippery bit of apologetics.

From historical records, we know something about the physical appearance of Socrates, but nothing about Jesus.

The son of god lives on the Earth and no one can remember what he looks like?

Mr. Mark - You might want to re-read your Bible in the context and understanding of those speaking. For example, taking the Old Testament exclusively (which was what the mass of Jews were doing in the first century CE), the Temple in Jerusalem was where one met God. Jesus presents (or "retrofits," if I can use your terminology) himself as the TRUE Temple. In other words, it was in Jesus where we fully meet God. So when Jesus was destroyed in the Crucifixion, the Temple was destroyed.

As for the "self-serving" Bible being it's only proof, that's not true. Quite a few events of the Bible can be cross-referenced with other non-Scriptural sources. And if you aren't careful, your argument might disprove the existence of Plato. Remember, there's no evidence he ever existed beyond the writings we have of his, and the oldest texts of Plato's works are several centuries after he wrote, while there are Biblical texts (particularly from the NT) that scholars believe are only 150-200 years after their supposed writing.

You might also want to study your New Testament a little harder. Only one of the Gospels was likely written after the destruction of the Temple (John). Matthew, Mark, and Luke were probably written between 50 and 60 CE. As were most of the letters which claim Pauline authorship(because Paul most likely died before the Temple was destroyed). Luke and Acts are a continuos story, so Acts antedates Temple destruction. In other words, you can't claim Biblical writers re-interpreted events that hadn't yet happened.

Mr. Mark - You might want to re-read your Bible in the context and understanding of those speaking. For example, taking the Old Testament exclusively (which was what the mass of Jews were doing in the first century CE), the Temple in Jerusalem was where one met God. Jesus presents (or "retrofits," if I can use your terminology) himself as the TRUE Temple. In other words, it was in Jesus where we fully meet God. So when Jesus was destroyed in the Crucifixion, the Temple was destroyed.

As for the "self-serving" Bible being it's only proof, that's not true. Quite a few events of the Bible can be cross-referenced with other non-Scriptural sources. And if you aren't careful, your argument might disprove the existence of Plato. Remember, there's no evidence he ever existed beyond the writings we have of his, and the oldest texts of Plato's works are several centuries after he wrote, while there are Biblical texts (particularly from the NT) that scholars believe are only 150-200 years after their supposed writing.

You might also want to study your New Testament a little harder. Only one of the Gospels was likely written after the destruction of the Temple (John). Matthew, Mark, and Luke were probably written between 50 and 60 CE. As were most of the letters which claim Pauline authorship(because Paul most likely died before the Temple was destroyed). Luke and Acts are a continuos story, so Acts antedates Temple destruction. In other words, you can't claim Biblical writers re-interpreted events that hadn't yet happened.

mr. mark,you stated you don't believe Jesus even existed. you would have a few historical records to argue with besides the bible to prove that. that puts into question your thought processes.

In today's world with the Book of Mormon being 'found', the Dead Sea Scrolls being 'found', Matthew written after Mark, etc. and Bushco making up its own 'history' and 'facts' is their any legimate reason to 'believe' that the Old Testament and New Testament were written in cronological sequesnce as has been stated and inferred????

The Dead Sea Scrolls are as hokey as they come. So, with today's knowlege, to say that the New Testament 'fulfills' the Old Testament and that things happen as alledged is 'way way out'.

mccain would probably make all those black,white,hispanic and native americans sitting in parsleys congregation mad.

Dear Angela -

You refuse to answer the one question I asked, preferring post a laundry list of unprovable and erroneous assertions. Unlike you, I'll address your specific claims, to whit:

* prophets in the old Testament prophesied about the coming of the Messiah and all of those prophecies came true.

Not true at all. II Kings states quiet clearly then the arrival of the messiah would IMMEDIATELY usher in an era of justice and peace upon the Earth. This didn't happen with the advent of Jesus, and it's the main reason the Jews don't recognize Jesus as the promised saviour.

* Jesus was the one who stated that He would be hated and of course, He was hated, He also stated that He would be killed; yes, He was killed, He also stated that Peter would deny Him three times before the rooster crowed; Peter did.

Of course, there's no independent proof that any of this happened outside of the self-serving "proof" of the Bible itself, but I'll grant you these, just to be nice.

* He said that he would die and rise again, and He did. He also stated that He would go and be at the right Hand of God; He is.

Pure conjecture. How can anyone "prove" Jesus is currently "at the right hand of god?"

* He also gave those who believed Him signs of which to show the coming of the end; He has.

As I've pointed out, his claims were false.

* He stated that the temple would be destroyed

Actually, Biblical scholars use the destruction of the Temple in 70CE to date when the Gospels were written. This is an example of the Gospel writers retro-fitting an actual event into a mythical story to make it seem more plausible.

The Gospel writers wrote after 70CE, ie: after the Temple was destroyed. They then thought it would be a nifty idea to put words in Jesus' mouth predicting said destruction. Believe me, that's how the prophecy ended up in the Gospels, not the other way around.

* He also stated that people will hate those who love Him because of His name and of course, look around; very true.

No one "hates" Jesus. They just don't believe he was god or - in my case - that he ever existed. I can no more hate Jesus than I can hate Sydney Carton.

All religions are false.
Islam is just false and evil.

Reality 101---

A synopsis of the flaws in the founders and foundations of the major religions for those that have not seen them before or did not take the time to look:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a mythical character as was Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.

1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.
simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics. earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

"All those embellished and mythical details in the gospels, are prophecy turned into history, rather than history remembered."

3. Mohammed, an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds these acts of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

4. Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy talking flying fictional thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

5. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) - "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."
The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."
"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

Mark, no he wasn't a false prophet. Also, prophets in the old Testament prophesied about the coming of the Messiah and all of those prophecies came true. Also, Jesus was the one who stated that He would be hated and of course, He was hated, He also stated that He would be killed; yes, He was killed, He also stated that Peter would deny Him three times before the rooster crowed; Peter did. He said that he would die and rise again, and He did. He also stated that He would go and be at the right Hand of God; He is. He also gave those who believed Him signs of which to show the coming of the end; He has. He stated that the temple would be destroyed and that every stone would lay on top of the other and that He would rebuild it and isn't it rebuilt by the power of His people by His word. He also stated that people will hate those who love Him because of His name and of course, look around; very true. I am no bible scholar but I do read and study the Bible diligently and ask and seek guidance to ensure that I'm applying it to my everyday life, in faith and love for Him.

Dear Angela -

Well, you refuse to answer my very specific questions, preferring to label me cynical and condescending.

Assigning labels is easy. Providing cogent answers, not so much.

I admit to being condescending in respect to my knowledge of what the Bible actually says and what you think it says (and I'm not ready to concede that you're being "guided" in your interpretation by some all-knowing, supernatural being), but I'm no cynic. Indeed, I believe that there's hope for even you to see the light, and to some day chuck the poorly written and error-filled myth-world you currently embrace.

Here's one more chance for you to answer, yes or no: was Jesus a false prophet based on the Biblical standard for what constitutes a false prophet?

Nonsense Mike, Pastor wright told factual lies from the pulpit. Even when the actual truth would have served him as well he twisted it into a lie. Telling lies from the pulpit is the second worst sin in the Bible.

Angela writes: "Quite different don't you think...We tend to pick and chose when we want to put on the binders."

Indeed.

Mr. Mark, You're so condescening and cynical...As I stated previously, every prophecy about Jesus was fulfilled and if you were such a bible scholar, you would know that there are some prophecies that are in the OLD and the NEW Teatament. In addition, if you took the time to go through the information, you would see clearly they are taken from accurate study of God's Holy Bible. In closing, the one who needs the information the most are too cynical to search for truth...

PS, I study God's word daily and have study each week, not through a wordly, idolic heart and mind but lead by the Holy Spirit. Head knowledge is nothing without the Spirit of God indwelling inside.
SCRITPURE FOR THOUGHT AND STUDY...1 Corinthians 2:14-15; 14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment; PLEASE GIVE IS SOME THOUGHT...

Dear Angela -

One more point: you cite OT prophecies that the advent of Jesus supposedly fulfilled, but those are prophecies that were made by OT prophets, they are NOT prophecies made by Jesus.

The question is whether or not the prophecies made by Jesus HIMSELF have been fulfilled. Jesus said that his End Time prophecies would be fulfilled BEFORE his generation passed. It didn't happen.

Ergo, Jesus=False Prophet.

Back at 'ya.

Dear Angela -

Who is a false prophet?

The money quote appears in Deut. 18:22:

Deut. 18:20 "But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?

18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."

Seems to me that the End Times have "followed not" on Jesus' word, neither have the things he said would come to pass...er, come to pass.

Ergo, Jesus = False Prophet

You don't get it, do you? According to the OT, a prophet who is wrong 1% of the time is a false prophet. It doesn't matter if Jesus was right 80 times and got one wrong (one BIG one wrong, BTW), he's still - BY BIBLICAL STANDARDS - a false prophet.

And your list of "fulfilled prophecies" is uninformed and infantile. Do you not know that the whole "virgin birth" myth is based on a mistranslation of Isaiah in verses that were not at all intended as prophecy in the first place? Do you not know that Matthew and Luke indicate different years for the birth of Jesus, ie: they're at least 10 years apart? Do you not know that Gospel "fulfillments" of OT prophecy are not only retro-fitted, but that the Gospel writers occasionally cite the wrong OT book/verse in their hapless efforts to make things work out just right?

Geez. You need to take a basic course in Bible history.

Countless tens of thousands die every day - thus the END TIMES are at least upon them. I predict that each and every person now living will subsequently die - eventually.

And thus, the END TIMES will come to one and all. With a 100% accuracy rate, and far surpassing the bible's palty and completely unsubstantiated prediction rate, I have yet to be proven wrong. I'm even doing better than Nostradamus.

How could anyone dispute the fact that the END TIMES are indeed upon us??? Well, in a manner of speaking, that is.........

NO! And, at the same time, he ought to embrace Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Hillary Clinton, and announce that he is converting to Satanism.

Are you insane? Of course he needs to dump this lunatic. I'm a Chrsitian, an Evangelical Christian, and Christian leadership has no place for the likes of Mr. Parsley. He belongs in the pews, working out his salvation, not blathering on with the sort of nonsense I've heard about Catholics and Jews.

As for the Rev. Wright, which is what you are stretching to compare Mr. Parsley with, he is completely in line with what the old testiment prophets said and did. He, in no way, criticized the Christian community. He did (and rightfully so!) CHASTIZE a nation, all of the West actually, that has gotten entirely to selfish, self indulgent, self righteous, and self centered. And, I want it noted, the Rev. Wright was even more critical of the black community. THAT is what I expect of a Christian leader. I've heard just as harsh (and, usually justified) criticisms come from Billy Graham and Pat Robertson. That is THE JOB of a Christian leader.

All what things?

Mr. Mark:

So you want to talk about prophecy. Jesus fulfilled over 80 prophecies that did come true. You'll be stunned and maybe you'll start to believe:
Prophecies of Jesus Christ

Seed of a woman: Prophecy :Genesis 3:15
Fulfilled:Galatians 4:4
Descendant of Abraham: Prophecy: Genesis 12:3
Fulfilled: Matthew 1.1
Descendant of Isaac: Prophecy: Genesis 17:19
Fulfilled: Luk 3:34
Descendant of Jacob: Prophecy: Numbers 24:17
Fulfilled: Matthew 1.2
From the Tribe of Judah: Prophecy: Genesis 49;10
Fulfilled: Luke 3:33
Descendant of David: Prophecy: Jeremiah 23:5-6
Fulfilled: Matthew 1.1
Will Shepherd His People: Prophecy: Ezekiel 37:24
Fulfilled: Matthews 2.6
Heir to the Throne of David: Prophecy: Isaiah 9:7
Fulfilled: Luke 1:32
Annointed and Eternal: Prophecy: Psalms 102:25-27
Fulfilled: Hebrews 1:8-12
Born in Bethlehem: Prophecy: Micah 5:2
Fulfilled: Luke 2:4-5, 7
Time for His Birth: Prophecy Daniel 9:25
Fulfilled: Luke 2:1-2
Born of a Virgin: Prophecy: Isaiah 7;14
Fulfilled: Luke 1:26-27, 30-31
Declared the Son of God: Prophecy: Pslams 2:7
Fulfilled: Matthew 3;17
Galilien Ministry: Prophecy: Isaiah 9:1-2
Fulfilled: Matthew 4:13-16:
Speaks in Parables: Prophecy: Psalms 78:2-4
Fulfilled: Matthew 13;34-35
Intercession for His People: Prophecy: Isaiah 53:12
Fulfilled: Hebrews 7:25
Refject by His Own People: Prophecy: Isaiah 8:14
Fulfilled: John 1:11, Luke 23:18, Acts 4:11, 1 Peter 2
Priest in the Order of mechizededk: prophecy: Psalms: 110:4 - Fulfilled: Hebrews 5:5-6
Triumphal Entry: Prophecy: Zechariah 9:9
Fulfilled: Mark 11:7, 9, 11
Not Believed: Prophecy: Isaiah 53;1
Fulfilled: John 12:37-38
Betrayed by close Friend: Prophecy: Psalms 55:12-13, Zechariah 13:6 - Fulfilled: Luke 22:47-48, Matthew 26:49-50
Betrayed for 30 pcs of silver: Prophecy: Zechariah 11:12 - Fulfilled: Matthews 26:14-15
Silent to Accusations: Prophecy: isaiah 53:7
Fulfilled: Mark 15;4-5
Spat on a Struck - Prophecy: Isaiah 50:6
Fulfilled: Matthews 26:67
Scourged: Prophecy: Isaiah 53:5 - Fulfilled: Matthews 27:26
Crucifed with Thieves: Prophecy: Isaiah 53:12
Fulfilled: Mark 15:27 -28
Pierced through Hands and Feet: Prophecy: Zecharaiah 12:10, psalms 22:16 - Fulfilled: Jouhn 20:25-27
Mocked: Prophecy: Psalms 22:7-8, Fulfilled: Luke 23:35
Given Vinegar for Thirst: Prophecy Psalms 69:21 - Fulfilled: John 19:28-29
Prayer for His Enemies: Prophecy: Psalm 109:4, Isaiah 53:12 - Fulfilled: Luke 23:34
Soldiers gabled for His clothing: Prophecy: Psalms 22:17-18, Fulfilled: Matthews 27:46
Committed His Spirit to God; Prophecy: Psalms 31:5 - Fulfilled: Luke 23:46
No bones broken: Prophecy: Psalms 34:20 - Fulfilled: John 19:32, 33, 36
Darness over the Land: Prophecy: Amos 8:9 - Fulfilled: Matthew 27:45
AND SHALL I GO ON:

Isaiah Please stop ripping one portion of scripture out of an entire book; Namely, we'll look at portions of Mattew. This is what Jesus said (Matthew 30-34: At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[b]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[c] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. WHAT THIS MEANS IS THAT WE WILL START TO SEE THE SIGNS OF THE END.

Matt 24:34 "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Angela - here are Jesus' own words that close his discussion of what the End Times will entail, and what the signs will be to know the End Times are upon us.

Why is this issue being discussed at the Washington Post on the faith page, in commentaries, letters to the editor, and online discussions but not in NEWS coverage? (The Post search function doesn't even produce a hit for this faith page discussion.) Why the double standard? If Wright is newsworthy, isn't Parsley?

Angela sez:

"I do believe Islam is a false religion as Mohammed was considered to be a prophet but none of his prophecies materialized which means he made them up."

Why not apply the same standard to the false prophet called Jesus? After all, Jesus prophesied that his second coming would occur before the passing of the generation that was living at the time he walked the Earth. Didn't happen, did it? The Bible says that unless a prophet is right 100% of the time, he's a false prophet. By his own standards, Jesus was a false prophet.

What's your excuse for this one, Angela (and/or GaryD)?

Joet,

Someone who receives a pastor's endorsement is quite different from someone sitting in a church for 20 years listening to a pastor. Would you sit in the pews of a KKK member of Louis Farakkan's mosque for 20 years. Quite different don't you think...We tend to pick and chose when we want to put on the binders.

Not only Parsley, but Sage, Rosemary and Thyme as well. And any other intolerant herbs. Add Simon and Garfunkle songs, hell, Simon and Garfunkle themselves. Throw in The Mamas And The Papas for good measure.

I have marvelled at the pundits who attack Obama for spending so many years in the pew and defend McCain for his associations with religious figures for more limited time frames, as if the isssue were how much time does it take for extreme views to taint an acquaintance.

For me, seeking a political endorsement from a religious figure not ones pastor as a political act (bad enough a priori) is entirely distinguishable from the religious act of participating in one's own parish community under a pastor to the flock. It is the former, not the later, that raises the issue of accountability for the views of the religious figure. For me, Hannity, et al., have it backwards.

First Ahmed of Bahrain I was referring not just to the US but to the West as a whole with which Islam has been at war off and on since the drive by conquest of Jerusalem shortly following the defeat of the Persians. At that time Jerusalem was a Christian and Jewish community with essentially no Muslim adherents present.

2nd Lepidopteryx the Brits did a fairly good job of ridding the world of the Thuggee. One can exterminate a religion but it is always a bloody nasty business and not one which in the case of Islam I think worth the effort or the aggravation it would cause to all concerned. At least not until other things have been tried first.

Oh there "Reality Challenged" and Obfuscating Jihadist and your Sister and Brothers of the Shiite and Anti-Shiite Faith,

As with Ahmed, you believe because of 1400 years of Islamic brainwashing of yourself, your parents and their parents, etc. i.e. you suffer from the Three B Syndrome, Bred, Born and Brainwashed in some form of religion. In your case, Islam.

Once again, you can break this Three B curse by following this easy Five Step Deprogramming Method:

Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

"1. Belief in Allah"

"aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc." should be added to your cleansing neurons.

"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gib Gnab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "creationist".

"3. To believe in the existence of angels."

A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/devils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hittites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ugly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as fairies and "tinker bells". Modern devils are classified as the demons of the demented.

"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels/"pwtfft"s to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the uneducated masses in line. Today we call them fortune tellers.
Prophecies are also invalidated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."
Mohammed spent thirty days fasting in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic violence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallucinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

Accept these five "cleansers" and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

And Disney World, Mecca will soon be available!!!

renounce AND reject

I think any time a religious leader makes the comment that another religion needs to be eradicated, that person has crossed a major line. It's fine to believe that your faith is The One True Faith, and it's fine for you to beleive that I'm going to burn forever in some demonic torture furnace for not believeing as you do. But to call for the eradication of a faith is a bit much.

Not to mention, how exactly would he propose doing so? Ask people if they are Muslim, and shoot them on the spot if they say yes?

House to house searches for copies of the Qu'ran? Not everyone who owns a copy is Muslim. I own copies of the Bible, the Qu'ran, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Tao, the I Ching, the teachings of Confucius, and the teachings of the Buddha, but I am neither Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Taoist, Confucian, nor Buddhist.

Surveillance cameras to record those who pray at certain times of day? Will the Theology Police be bursting into people's homes and arresting them in the middle of their prayers?

You can't eradicate a religion. It's been tried repeatedly. Persecuted religions just go underground and resurface elsewhere. Better to learn to peacefully co-exist.

Ahmed - you have elevated the level of discourse and for that uncommon accomplishment you are to be congratulated. Believers and non-believers alike should pay attention to what you say.

In the end, your way is the only way - regardless of a person's religious or philosophical persuasion. And you are right - committed materialists are in for quite a surprise down the road. The question remains - does this happen once or many times? And what about the eternal recurrance???

My hat is off to you ......

I'm sure I have a position on this, but I'm not sure what it is. I'll check with my advisers and find out what my position is.

Hello Ahmed from Bahrain,

Thank you for your post.

Well, it was not my intention to "save" Islam or the Qur'an either. It don't need to. I want it more than it need me obviously. It is there before I was born and will still be there long after I died. I sometimes can't help talking about both when non-Muslims do.

I understand what you are saying. For me, as my belief in God is already in me, I am more absorbed in the reminder to pursue the Right Path here on earth. How can I forget that when it is in the Al Fatihah everytime I pray?

Living in Malaysia, with 60% Muslims and 40% non-Muslims, I have gotten used to passionate discourse on race, religion and politics in state affairs. It is, in so many ways, similar to the discourse as in the US. That is why I find On Faith interesting.

I don't doubt anyone's belief (or non-belief if they don't), but I am one who also appreciates and never under-estimate group identification, social cohesiveness and collective effectiveness of "organised" religion, whether in Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Bahaism and all others as individual and group support and action.

You do know the Sura, "To you, your belief, to me, mine." No problem with that, but some do want to impose their own version of belief on others -be they Muslims or non-Muslims. This is when the problems begins and worsen if unchecked.

In Malaysia's latest election in March this year, the non-Malay non-Muslim minorities are a bit relieved and assured when Malay-Muslims started pushing back Malay-Muslim extremists and arrogant chauvinists in voting against them. Malaysian politics is not the same anymore and for the better for all Malaysians.

There is so much people can tolerate the politisation of race and religion. Not to mention bad governance. Some pundits call it the "psychological breaking point". I think of it in less dramatically stated terms - people reaching the limits of tolerating the intolerants, the incompetents, the bigoted, the arrogant, and the corrupt in one way or another. In gist, people just got fed up.

As for my posts in On Faith, yes well, they are just discussions on faith, what it means for us and why. I do admit I am prone, as Malaysians are when blogging, to a wee bit of lampooning, satires, sarcasm and irony on race, religion and politics.

Laughing at and joshing on our own silliness on race, religion and politics won't kill us. Nor do challenging one another's views. I learn a lot from many in On Faith too, both panelists and posters.

We are all just talking here. A roomful or threadful of strangers finding commonalities here, differences there. Just like in real life with family, friends, colleagues, acquintances, and strangers we met.

And what is a minor row or two?:)

-------------------------------------------------

Oh Ye Concerned the Crossanized Christian of A Seperate Reality.

A Disney World in Mecca featuring roller coaster-chariot rides to the fictional heavens, a water park at the Grand Mosque along with a Hall of Religious?

Come now. Disney actually build faux castles in Disney Europe near Paris and they have real castles in Europe. What were they thinking? There are hundreds of historical castles and grand houses in England alone open for public viewing. Even Windsor Castle is open to the public.

I'll settle for Busch Gardens or Las Vegas or Madame Tussaud's for small time cheap thrills, not a transporting spiritual experience such as the Haj in Mecca and Medina.

Remember now, the question was on McCain's so-called spiritual guide, Mr. Rod Parsley.

Never heard of Mr. Parsley until the question posed by WaPo On Faith. We were reading on a certain Wilder fellow - a flaying, fraying Dutchman.

No doubt about it, Mr. Parsley is very spirited. If a Muslim alim were to say Christianity is false and must be destroyed, he be said to be nuts, an extremist, a fanatic, a terrorist.

Will Islam be an issue in this year's U.S. presidential election?

Of course it is - from Obama's background to Islam and Muslim as the greatest threat to homeland security etc. So said the neocons and other nervous nellies including Mr. Parsley.

And, so, why are Americans not leaving out Christianity and Islam in this election year?

All Presidential candidates are apparently self-destructing when they spoke on religion, any religion and aspects of it - from Romney to Huckabee to Obama to McCain.

It seems to be a mutually assured destruction and/or self-destruction for all US presidential candidates when they or their advisers, spiritual or otherwise, speak on Christianity or Islam in their campaigns, or how devout and pious Christians they are.

The US presidential candidates wants to have religious/spiritual advisers like the President of Iran? The US on the way to being a theocratic state?

Can we look forward to possibily the first theocratic Christian state in the west (USA) to complement the first Muslim theocratic state in the east (IRI)?

Really pussycat. This is more for Americans to ask themselves. You're on your own on this. This is your country's election. Not mine.

And never under-estimate the power of the evangelicals in your own country. There are some 80 million of them and their numbers are growing.

The evangelicals are exporting Parsley's brand of Christianity all over the world. The score so far:

One - evangelical Christians.
Zero - Crossanized Christians.

And we have posters in On Faith who said they met God. And Satan too.

Your bottom line on this question is this? :

"Leave Christianity and Islam to self-destruct leaving both out of any election debate."

My botton line on this question is this :

Some Christians in the United States are talking Christianity to death theologically, spiritually and politically.

Don't hyperventilate, but it is all really part of the Global Muslim Conspiracy to undermine western civilisation as we know it, and put in place global Muslim domination as stated in the legendary "Protocols of the Elders of Islamism" and "The Muslimistic Manisfesto".

To USA voters..religion is obsolete and has way too much influence on your elections..are you not the leaders of the democratic and free world?...the world is laughing at you!

I do believe Islam is a false religion as Mohammed was considered to be a prophet but none of his prophecies materialized which means he made them up. Also, McCain has not spent 20 years sitting in the pews of Rod Parsley's church. Big difference! Also, the muslims would like to see every other religion destroyed and will kill others who don't believe what they believe. Just look in the book entitled "Foxes Book of Martyrs". Also, take a look at what's going on in all muslim countries. You can't even be caught with a bible or they will kill you. Christians made preach the gospel (evangelize) to others but true Christians don't go around killing those they don't agree with. There will come a day when the True Living God will judge those in righteousness and then everyone will know but it will probably be too late for so many people.

The comments of Mccain's pastor are anything BUT new and shocking..well shocking maybe......why did the early Europeans to NA try to convert the natives? ummmmm...could it be they thought that Christianity was the one true religion....isn't it THE message of the bible..that the ONLY way to heaven is through jesus christ? Come on people...

Ahmed, Ahmed, Ahmed,

You believe because of 1400 years of Islamic brainwashing of yourself, your parents and their parents, etc. i.e. you suffer from the Three B Syndrome, Bred, Born and Brainwashed in some form of religion. In your case, Islam.

Once again, you can break this Three B curse by following this easy Five Step Deprogramming Method:

Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

"1. Belief in Allah"

"aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc." should be added to your cleansing neurons.

"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gib Gnab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "creationist".

"3. To believe in the existence of angels."

A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/devils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hittites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ugly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as fairies and "tinker bells". Modern devils are classified as the demons of the demented.

"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels/"pwtfft"s to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the uneducated masses in line. Today we call them fortune tellers.
Prophecies are also invalidated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."
Mohammed spent thirty days fasting in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic violence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallucinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

Accept these five "cleansers" and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

Hi Jihadist

I fully understand their take on Islam. It is not upto me to save Islam or the Quran. I read a verse:

"inna nahnu nazallna al-dhikr wa inna laho lehafidhoon".

'It is I who have ordained this book and it is I who will be protect it till Eternity."

This verse has withstood the test of time, in that The Quran has not been tampered with and I have no doubt it will continue to stay so.

As the Arab keyholder of Mecca said when they rushed to tell him that the Indian contingency of the time were about to destroy Mecca: He replied, whilst herding his camels, "The camels are mine and I will protect them but Mecca is belongs to Allah, and He will protect it".

Mecca has stayed to this day.

So, HE does not need me to be His soldier but I am a soldier for love, never belonged to any Sufisticated tariqah. As for religion; true I am not fond of it because of what I see around me and how men of so-called wisdom use God to serve their own end. This applies to all religions and Islam by no means has its exclusive bigots. Not to hold this against God!!

But am I a believer? Yes mam, I am a believer, unlike any this world of today will ever know and my wisdom is from The Divine. It is not earthly or obtained from books, correction one book has left its mark indelibly on my heart. Let you take one guess.

Do you believe?

la illah illa Allah = There is none but ONE, and we ALL belong to that ONE, wa lao kariha almushrikoon, even if they hate to think so. Truth is ONE, no matter where we hide, coz in the end, with death all will be revealed.

I have had people with absolutely no belief in The Divine but after death, I have seen them in dreams where they confirmed that I was right. They will have a shock after death!

If only you knew of my experiences, you would not doubt my belief. I have traveled this world and lived in five countries for extensive periods, and have had my share of joy and disdain but my heart has always been pure and the most ardent lover of love. I met only one man who could match me. This is how a soul mate is found. Someone who can take you on a journey to experience a lifetime in one day and a hundred death in one sleep. Reality as never experienced by a living soul. Only a departed soul will experience a little of what I have in this body.

But always with the hand of The Protector and His beautiful smiling face. Ala bi dhikr Allah tatmain alquloob = comfort of the heart can only be achieved in the company of The Divine.

Do I believe?

Do you believe?

Oh there "Reality Challenged" and Obfuscating Jihadist,

Considering that Mecca will soon be a global tourist attraction, the US Congressman's suggestion about nuking Mecca if there was another Islamic terrorist attack against the USA is a mute point.

As previously noted:

Just as Christianity is self-destructing from the weight of its flaws and errors to include the mumbo jumbo of physical resurrections, holy ghosts, and "voodooing the hoodoo" aka "miracles", Islam will analogously self-destruct as noted below:

Islam's reliance on "pretty wingie thingies" and "demons of the demented" for authenication is coming to a fast close. As it does, Mecca will no longer be a shrine to these fictional characters and will simply become a historical tourist attraction. Maybe Disney will construct another Disney World there featuring roller coaster-chariot rides to the fictional heavens, a water park at the Grand Mosque along with a Hall of Religious Embellished Characters featuring talking figures of Abraham, Jesus and Mohammed and his eleven wives.

Hmmm, Mohammed's figure would be saying something like:

"I was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" aka "pretty wingie thingies" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers. "

Bottom line, leave Christianity and Islam to self-destruct leaving both out of any election debate.

Concerned the Christian Now Liberated,

Oh...now I understand from your posts here.

It was you advising Rev. Parsley on Islam and Muslims? And Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Ann Coulter and Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell too?

No wonder you are for Islam to be destroyed and Mecca to be nuked in your previous posts. Probably from one of those US Fifth Fleet nuclear warship parked in Ahmed's Bahrain's port.

Oh pussycat..... I am not like Ahmed of Bahrain. He is older, he is wiser, he is Sufistic and he don't believe in religion.

I do. Believers of God/deities and religious groups live longer, are more organised, are more committed and are more cooperative. You will have to nuke all believers then, to destroy any religion.

...and, I am also younger, more bull-headed, rasher and much more grrrrrrrowlllier.......Muslim.

You can always form a DIG (Destroy Islam Group) with Parsley, Hagee, Robertson, Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Salman Rushdie, Ibn Warraq, Robert Spenser et al.

Go ahead......see if it works.

Down with DIG! :)

Luke

Ma man. I take my hat (or headgear/handkerchief) for you.

But here is where I have a little to add and you said:

"Any man who claims to have ANY understanding of the "truth" from GOD then that man is the leader of a false religion."

I claim to have touched that truth but I have no time for religion. The truth that I have been shown within myself and through many spiritual and physical experiences is that:

1. God is Absolute love. and,

2. We are ALL ONE.

The funny thing is that every one of us knows that even if we deny it, then by digging a little deeper, we see a glimpse of this truth. Take time out and you will arrive at the same conclusion.

It is high time we appointed leaders who believed in this and applied all their policies to this end.

Within a few decades the result will be: peace, prosperity, lack of fear and acceptance of each others because what we do to another in reality we do to ourselves. We are the mirror of each other except like a sufferer of anorexia, most of us tend to see a different reflection in that mirror, separate from themselves; so they set out to fight it and deprive it of the nurturing that it deserves. The end result speaks for itself.

Peace brother, Peace.

Oh there "Reality Challenged" and Obfuscating Jihadist,

You forgot to mention a few facts about the koran-driven, contemporary violence of Islam which has fostered significant fear in the lands of the infidels.

To wit:

Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/ hallucinating/ plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" aka "pretty wingie thingies" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds these acts of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

And the solution?? Deflaw the koran!!!!!

And yes Judaism and Christianity both have significant errors and flaws in their foundations and theology. These are being addressed. Not so with Islam. We await your book starting the process.

Garyd wrote:

"We are at war with some elements within Islam. It is as it always has been a war of their choosing not ours."

Tell me Garyd: when was the last time Muslims invaded your lands?

Please try and be a little more specific and keep it to the last 200 years if you can, coz if you start going into ancient history, we will all lose the plot and you will open a bigger can of worms than you can swallow. So stick to our times, also because I like to live in present and not be ruled by ancient history. Thank you.

Ahmed from Bahrain
Where the US 5th Fleet arsenal with nukes on board has been stationed for over 2 decades - against the will of the people of Bahrain.

Ahmed from Bahrain:)

It is like this on why ours is a "false" religion for the likes of Parsley ......

- The Prophet was lied to by Satan and thus Islam must be destroyed as a false religion.

- Muslims are the Anti-Christ and thus must be destroyed to hasten Armageddon and salvation for the believers of the true religion.

- Islam is an ideology like Nazism and fascism and communism and thus must be destroyed before they destroy "our" way of life.

- Muslims are seeking global domination and thus must be destroyed before they impose a caliphate and dhimmituded all non-Muslims and sell off all women and children into slavery.

- Muslims will impose Shariah in Europe and North America and must be banned from immigrating as they are the fifth column for global Islamic domination.

- All non-Muslim women will be forced to wear the chador/purdah/hijab when Islam dominates the world and all will be forced into polygamy and sexual slavery.

- Mecca must be nuked to cut the head (spiritual centre) from the chicken (Muslims) and to destroy Islam.

- Islam is a "corruption" of Judaism and Christianity and thus is a false religion that must be destroyed.

Parsley is just another one of those calling Islam a "false" religion and for the destruction of Islam and/or Muslims.

Other notorious evangelical types and non-evangelicals sorts like Ann Coulter and Ayaan Hirsi Ali have also made similar calls.

What else is new on this calling Islam a "false" religion that has been going on for centuries in Europe and now in America?

At least Parsley is not saying Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism are false religions and to be destroyed.

I wonder why that is. After all, Christian evangelicals thinks that all other non-Christian faiths are false and theirs is the "true" one. Or is it the Catholic Church?

Never mind.

Salam and regards

"J"

I'm no McCain supporter, not by a longshot. But falsehood is falsehood. Even the link Quinn provided to MJ, also no fan of McCain, does not assert that Parsley is or has ever been his advisor. It is common knowledge, reported time and again not only by the Times but by WaPo, that Parsley and Hagee were signed on by McCain to placate the lunatic right-wing fringe of the Republican party.

Ms. Quinn's disingenuous question represents an egregious violation of journalistic ethics, going well beyond the mudslinging and name-calling that have passed for media comment.

Quinn would do well to remove the question herself
with apologies to McCain.

Haleljulia

Now you are putting the whole thing in balance. We had Obama and his spiritual pastor hauled over the coal for speaking against injustices carried out by the US historically.

No this Parsley guy who wants to be a sage for wanting to rid the world of 1.3 billion Muslims and their religion.

I guess in the begining there were cowboys and Indians, then came the Blacks, then the Reds, then the Yellows and now all have been subdued, except the cowboy still needs an Indian. It is vital for his identity if he is to remain a cowboy, what with all them guns and ammo. We've built an industry and eeconomy around WMD and they have our oil under their land. We must protect our interests but darn these Mosies, they are so fanatical and they can't see the logic of us simply wanting to protect our interests and preserve our identity. They are evil and we must rid the world of those fanatics who want to keill our troops; those lovely boys and girls; our children.

We have more troops and more ammo and our religion is much better than their. Our God is the true God. Their god is evil. they are descendants of the Devil. Witches that must be hunted. We preach peace and freedom and demonocracy. We just want a piece of the action; well, a little bit more than just a piece. They will have a piece. I mean peace, if we and our allies can get the action. Darn you know what I mean. They are evil. They fight back. they are not supposed to fight back. They hate our freedom to drop bombs from our cosy computer rooms. They did not invent any of that tech. We did. they are backward and we have Blackwater, especially when we can't get Estonia to send their boys and girls. Let is surge.

Politics is a dirty game especially when it is dressed in spirituality. In fact the term spirituality is now tainted. So whats all this got to do with God. He/She/It is just a bystander. She just wanted to have a little fun by creating this world. Whats wrong with a little fun. Cowboys do it all the time.

Oh damn, just drop a bomb on Mecca - was it Ashcroft who said that? Or David Frum the Zionist who coined Axis of Evil? Why play around with words like freedom/democracy/our interest/our allies read Israel. Go for the jugular. That will stir them and we will have an endless supply of Indians and get our identity restored. Short of enemies? Lets create more.

And a little voice said: What about brotherhood of man.

Go back to your sixties you moron hash-smoking junkie Lennon wannabe peacenik. You are a tar on our national pride. 'bout time you supported our brave troops in Eyerak and gave a leg or an arm to show your patriotism and appreciation for living in the land of free and brave.

Man o man. So many dead poets, they even got a society. Ok I will now go back to my hole, or cave.

By the way. We know OBL lives in a cave (am not going to say which cave) but Bush also goes around with a thousand security agents and flies surrounded with military bombers. Isn't that the same. They are both HIDING?

I mean Bush goes to Eyerak and never sets foot in Karballa (look it up you moron - you own Eyerak now, so get familiar with your empire) they do the best kebabs near the harram - what? whats a harram. Darn: do I have to explain everything.

May be Bush is afraid of being poisoned. Those Ayrabs are famous for poisoning their oponents. Remember the anthrax letters? Am sure an Aeyrab was behind that.

Hail Britney. Now thats freedom. Cheers folk. Hang loose and see ya in Kashan. Oh, go look it up. Yo'all soon gonna inherit that. A lot of gas there. Yo'all be farting forever. Darn those kebabs are tasty.

There is little evidence that Parsley and Hagee were in anyone's inner circle.

These religious zealots should never have been in their inner-circle to begin with. Wright, Parsley, Fallwell, Robertson, and I know I'm missing several more. Why bring them into the political arena? The mixing or religion and bureaucracy had brought nothing but misery since the 2 were first conceived. GOD leaves no place for government and government leaves no place for GOD.

Foremost, however, is the fact that all these men have their own philosophy. Their own theology. If the Bible were truly the UNTOUCHED Word of GOD then you'd think everyone could come together. Truth is the Bible is a work of Man. It still may have been dictated first by the Almighty, but it no longer contains his intended context. Of this I'm sure.

So men such as Rod Parsley are free to spout any xenophobic, homophobic, anti-arabic, anti-muslim, religion fueled, hate filled declaration that comes to mind. 'Cause, after all, it's GOD's Will that all infidels be either converted or driven from His world. An idea that didn't begin with Islam but has deep roots in ancient Hebrew culture and is all over the Old Testament.

"When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full."
(Matthew 6:5)

One of my favorite verses. It covers so many things. Especially what we are discussing here. Anyone who has read Matthew at length recognizes this is as much a declaration against the prideful ways of the 1st century Jewish religious order as it is one for the new communal version of Christ's Earth. One need only read the first several chapters to realize Heaven was probably not Jerry Fallwell's final destination and will most likely not be glimpsed by Mr. Parsley's eyes either.

Any man who claims to have ANY understanding of the "truth" from GOD then that man is the leader of a false religion. He may call it Christianity, but I assure you my friends that it is not.

Islam should be an issue this and every year we continue to forcibly occupy an Islamic state. It's hard for many people here though. We're here all alone. We hate our "step-brother" to the North, and we relegate and abuse our neighbors to the South. Not a lot of world experience. "The World" is all bunched together across the pond. Of course I speak only in general. Many Americans have logged many miles across this planet, and absorbed many cultures. Most have not.

It can't be that no one else sees the parallels. All throughout history religion has been at the heart of every major conflict ever. EVER. You think Hitler was burning Jews cause he thought they were "shifty"? Did we call the East communists? No we called them G0DLESS communists. Are we facing terrorists or guerrillas in Iraq? No, it's Islamic fascists. A term invented by people who have little understanding of either word composing it.

And so it is in Iraq. We are there for 2 reasons. Most of the elite here want the oilfields. That's a given. The other reason that should be more closely examined, and this is just from personal opinion and observation, is the want by some for Israel to exert more control over the region and effectively "hamstring" an entire culture and religion. The push for Iran is nothing more than the want to reign in one of Israel's larger rivals. The oil probably helps too.

Don't allow religion to influence your politics. It leads to nothing but eventual ruin.

Only around the periphery. We are at war with some elements within Islam. It is as it always has been a war of their choosing not ours.

One other thing, why the heck is it that every pastor that has endorsed John McCain is suddenly his spiritual guide even if McCain has ever been in their church long enough to matter. Why this attempt at some supposed moral equivalence between Wright and Hagee/Parsley when the comparison is essentially nil.

Ignorance and bigotry are part and parcel of the Republican Right. What's to renounce?