Jeremiah Wright's Sermons

As a Christian pastor who is expected to look to Jesus as the role model Rev Wright should have prayed:

God have mercy on America and forgive her for she sometimes does not know what she does!

If it is the unique style of worship, the mode of delivery of the sermons, the focus of the sermons on the suffering of the black people, the need to feel a sense of ethnic belonging and keeping alive the history of the black people even in a positive way to thank God for how far they have come from the days of slavery, lest they forget, the real reason for wanting to worship in a separate church, the whites cannot be blamed for the segregation nor can it be called segregation. It is merely a choice and a means to keep their history and traditions alive, no different from many immigrant communities even with no tragic history tend to do.

Did Rev Wright willfully betray Senator Obama or did he just stick to his own views

Rev Wright made it clear that he considered it his duty to speak like a pastor without fear about political consequences to a member of his church and Senator Obama was free to have his own views and act like a politician.

At no time did Rev Wright claim to be speaking for Senator Obama's views nor did he claim that Senator Obama shared all his views.

Rev Wright supported Senator Obama as a person all
along while keeping his own views as a pastor. Senator Obama lived according to his convictions and Rev Wright according to his.

That a pastor has some views that everybody did not share including a politician, does not make the politician responsible for the pastor's views.

That a Harvard educated intellectual running for the most powerful political office in the world had a mind of his own all along and formed his own opinion about right and wrong without feeling the need to condemn a pastor for his views, a pastor who had brought him to the Christian faith and had given him a sense of belonging in a church community and helped him in many ways....is not impossible.

IMHO the victimhood experienced and expressed by blacks is based on a combination of factors: unresolved sense of inferiority directly traceable to their tragic history, prevailing attitudes towards them - overt and covert, their own passive attitude towards changing what is in their power to change and sinking into a feeling of helpless victimhood.

Muslims on the other hand suffer from no inferiority complex. They are taught to feel a sense of entitlement and superiority over believers of other faiths. Their anger springs from perceived insults to that sense of superiority about their religion. Living in a Western country post 9/11 and other violence in the name of Islam has put peace loving Muslims in a quandry and hatred directed at those who genuinely seek peace is rightly perceived as unfair.

It is a good thing that no Muslim is running for President of the US and the media isn't checking on all the sermons preached by Muslim clerics and imams in the US. Their take on politics especially US foreign policy and the way the Muslims view themselves and non-Muslims in American society could keep the media busy for years.

The Saudi ruler was so impressed with the version of Islam being preached in his own country the birthplace of Islam by many that he got no less than a thousand clerics fired and is actively involved in promoting a moderate view of Islam that tolerates other religious views.

A powerful Islamic reform movement is underway in Europe including Turkey which seeks to create Euro-Islam that can integrate without conflict into the European culture. American Muslims take note!

Jeremiah Wright's sermons continue to be an issue in the presidential campaign. Why? What do you think of his preaching style? What do you wish you understood better about it?

The reason Rev. Wright's sermons continue to be an issue is because:

1. the "powers that be" could not find any dirt on Obama and had to find something to stop his momentum, and

2. The media continued to talk about it because they are paid by the "powers that be."

As someone who now lives in MD, but grew up on the south side of Chicago, I know Rev. Wright, went to his church and LOVE his style. After attending another methodist church during my childhood, I found his preaching to be refreshing and it made me want to go to church.

What I really wish is that the entire story had been told of how Rev. Wright has reached across the aisle to embrace all races, classes and cultures to allow non-Blacks to feel comfortable in our church. His attention to those in need has not been told. How he has empowered the hopeless has not been told. I honestly believe the media went out of their way to demonize Rev. Wright in an effort to destroy Barack's campaign and if it works, how sad that will be.

I am so tired of how our Black men have been portrayed in the media whether TV, newspapers or movies. The fear that permeates White America is perpetuated by the media because they know that anything mixed with Black becomes Black by their definition. And what's that saying, once you go black, you never go back. Fear is used to control! Don't fall for it!

victoria,

No one who owes allegiance to the United States of America should "cut any slack" for either Wright or Obama after that rant has been made public, whether or not Obama was in the audience that day. That's just the way it is. The do gooders and the Democratic Party/a la Dean will just have to find it out by watching McCain become President. It could easily even spill over into the congressional elections.

thanks holimosses- not that speech- the one at the press club-

Finally, Rev Wright has retired. It is right to give him credit where credit is due without throwing out everything because he was not perfect and made some gross blunders.

It is up to the current pastor of his church to lead the members of his church in a new way that fosters forgiveness and love and unity among blacks and whites; to empower blacks without pitting them against their white brothers and sisters; to help them deal with problems pro-actively, without retreating into a passive victim mode focusing all their energy on what is wrong with the others.

Blacks have many positive role models starting with Senator Obama. Oprah, Woods etc are others.

Syphilis and AIDS are both diseases transmitted by blood and sexual contact. Rev Wright should have done his homework about the syphilis study and about the risk factors of both diseases before making his public comments even if it was to his church members . While AIDS continues to occur among homosexual males of all races its incidence has decreased dramatically due to the the practice of safe sex, not necessarily different sexual morality. AIDS among heterosexuals continues to be a problem and unsafe sex is one factor. The incidence HIV infection among black Americans is nine times higher than white Americans. It is atrocious for a Christian pastor to blame the US government for a disease that is spread by scientifically proven risk factors, and the US government is not one of them. It is irresponsible on the part of a pastor to carry his love for his people to the extent that he blames innocent parties for a disease that is spread with the involvement of the person who contracts the disease. The Christian pastor should have organized sex education instead, with instruction on safe sex. As a pastor he could have pleaded for the Christian sex moral of one partnetion r for life insteadr

HOLIMOSSES, Since Rev Wright is an American when he says "God damn America" he was including himself and the black Americans to whom he addressed his sermons in the privacy of his segregrated black church at segregrated eleven O'clock on a Sunday morning. It was not a speech at a political rally to pep up an armed black crowd which was setting off to lynch white Americans. That a Christian pastor who should be working towards peace and reconciliation of the races said it at a Sunday service is inappropriate but not un-patriotic when the meaning is understood in the context of the whole sermon.

When white politicians who worked hard to abolish slavery expressed their fear for the wrath of God for the crimes of white slave-owners they included themselves in the punishment that they feared God would inflict on their nation just as all Egyptians had to suffer for the wrongdoing of the few who misused their power against the Jews.

It is an emotional analogy meant to reflect however erraneously the OT prophets, but it is not un-patriotism. Blacks serve in the American army and die for the wars America fights. Rev Wright proved his patriotism by serving his nation in the army. Many blacks go off to die for the American cause as proud Americans serving their country. Maybe that is why as a black pastor Rev Wright would like black Americans to fight in wars that he believes are worth fighting for. Rev Wright is not the only one who objected to the invasion of Iraq. His cursing and rant and emphasis on and fanning of black vs white victim-hood is somewhat out of place in a Christian church but his love for his coun.try America should not be questioned. American blacks have no other country

Segregrated churches is a Christian issue white Christians need to pray about and act on. The deeply ingrained attitudes that make such a segregation necessary is a Christian issue. If blacks choose to worship separately because they are forced to or they are made to feel second class in a white church it requires white Christians to work on their Christianity.

For Victoria,

The statement by Wright was "...God damn America...". How many data points does it take?
A lot of us do not need but one of such significance. The Democratic Party "should hang its head in shame".

Satan misleads people through extreme pride of race and the worship of political organizations and he has influenced some to feel that their nation or race is better than others.
● "Man has dominated man to his injury." (Ecclesiastes 8:9) Whether those dominating are individuals or classes, when one group of people elevates itself over another, misery and suffering are the result.

God did not create man to rule over man. He created man to live in harmony with His standards.

● God is not partial. (Acts 10:34, 35)
● In God's eyes, one group of humans is not inherently superior to another group. (Acts 17:26)
● All humans are related, and before God all are born equal. (Job 34:19)

People look to political organizations and human governments to solve man's problems. By doing this, they are rejecting God's Kingdom. God’s Kingdom is the only solution for our problems. (Daniel 2:44)
● Jesus was not interested in or part of any political movement. When he was offered political power he refused it. (John 6:14&15)
● Jesus knows Jehovah God’s purpose for the earth will not be realized through human governments but through God’s heavenly government. (Matthew 6:10)
● Left on their own, imperfect humans simply cannot find the road to true peace and happiness. (Jeremiah 10:23)
So far, history has shown that humans are far from equal, and class distinctions are still a predominant feature of society. Such classes have not brought any benefits to society as a whole. Social class systems divide people, resulting in envy, hatred, heartache, and much bloodshed. The white-supremacy mentality in Africa, Australia, and North America brought misery to nonwhites—including the total genocide of the Aborigines in Tasmania. In Europe, classifying the Jews as inferior was a prelude to the Holocaust. The great wealth of the aristocracy and the dissatisfaction among the lower and middle classes were factors that led to the French Revolution of the 18th century and to the Bolshevik Revolution in 20th-century Russia.
Some day there will be a society among the living where social class will not be important. When Jesus was on the earth, he laid the groundwork for such a society.
● Jesus gave his life as a ransom sacrifice for all believing mankind so that "everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." (John 3:16).
In God's eyes, all of Jesus' true disciples are equal in the faith.
● To show that none of his followers should elevate themselves above fellow believers, Jesus said: "You, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your teacher, whereas all you are brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. Neither be called 'leaders,' for your Leader is one, the Christ. But the greatest one among you must be your minister. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled." (Matthew 23:8-12)
● The early Christians, who got the sense of Jesus' teaching, viewed themselves as equal. They viewed one another as equal in the faith and showed this by addressing one another as "brother." (Philemon 1, 7, 20)
● Nobody was encouraged to view himself as being better than others. (2 Peter 1:1) Peter had personally been instructed by Jesus, and as an apostle, he held an important position of responsibility. Yet, he considered himself to be a slave and recognized that other Christians held the faith in equal privilege with him.
Some may say that the fact that in pre-Christian times God made Israel his special nation is an example of racial superiority. (Exodus 19:5, 6) It is true that the Israelites, as descendants of Abraham, enjoyed a special relationship with God and were used as the channel for divine revelations. But the purpose of this was not to put them on a pedestal. (Romans 3:1) Rather, it was in order that 'all nations would be blessed.' (Genesis 22:18; Galatians 3:8).
● Most Israelites did not imitate the faith of Abraham, were unfaithful and rejected Jesus as the Messiah. Because of that, God rejected them. (Matthew 21:43)
● The meek among mankind did not lose out on the promised blessings. At Pentecost 33 C.E., the Christian congregation was born. This organization of Christians who were anointed by holy spirit was called "the Israel of God," and it proved to be the channel through which those blessings would come. (Galatians 6:16).
Some members of that congregation needed educating in the matter of equality. For example, the disciple James counseled those who were treating wealthy Christians with more honor than poorer ones. (James 2:1-4) The apostle Paul showed that Gentile Christians were in no way inferior to Jewish Christians, and female Christians were in no way inferior to males. He wrote: "You are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in union with Christ Jesus."(Galatians 3:26-28).
True Christians today try to live according to Scriptural principles. They recognize that social classes have no meaning in the eyes of God. They have no clergy/laity division, and they are not segregated according to skin color or wealth. Although some of them may be wealthy, they do not focus on "the showy display of one's means of life," for they realize that such things are only transitory. (1 John 2:15-17) They all are united by their worship of the Universal Sovereign, Jehovah God.
Every true Christian accepts the responsibility to share in the work of preaching the good news of the Kingdom to his or her fellowman. Like Jesus, they honor the downtrodden and neglected by visiting them in their homes, offering to teach them God's Word. Those with a humble status in life work side by side with those who may be viewed by some as upper class. It is spiritual qualities that count, not social class. As in the first century, all are brothers and sisters in the faith.
Equality does not mean total uniformity. Men and women, old and young, are all represented in the Christian organization that includes people from many racial, linguistic, national, and economic backgrounds. As individuals, they have different mental and physical abilities. But those differences do not make some superior or others inferior. Rather, such differences result in a delightful variety. Those Christians recognize that any talents they have are gifts from God and are no reason for feelings of superiority.
Class divisions are a result of man's trying to govern himself instead of following God's guidance. Soon, God's Kingdom will take over the day-to-day rulership of this earth, and the result will be an end to man-made class distinctions, along with all other things that have caused suffering through the ages. Then, in a real sense, 'the meek will inherit the earth.' (Psalm 37:11) All reasons for boasting about one's supposed superiority will be gone. Never again will social classes be allowed to divide the worldwide brotherhood of man.

What I want to know, is why the why white community doesn’t understand that the church meets the needs of the people it serves? Obama was entirely right in that Wright, and a large majority of the Black clergy and people, haven’t forgotten slavery, or post civil war terrorism by groups like the KKK, and Jim Crow America. It’s not easy for people who have been fighting the good fight for nearly all their lives, to accept a proclaimed truce as iterated by Senator Obama, just ask Chelsea Clinton. Where we haven’t had a place on school boards or seats of government, the church served as the sounding boards for politics and civil matters, not just spiritual matters. Therefore, black ministers have always been both a community leader and minister.

The Rev. Wright has more than enough documented injustice to base any argument on, without throwing in the kitchen sink theories, and inflammatory rhetoric. He is a Christian minister of the gospel, and that means bringing healing, insight, reconciliation, and resolution. That's where he went off the tracks. Obama has no choice but to reject divisive assertions like the AIDS comments, etc. There is ample proof that our government accepts and in no small way, allows tragedy to flourish in the Black community. But started the AIDS epidemic? There are ways in which he could have said what he believed, given it context and meaning, and started discussion, understanding.

"What I abhor is government growth. Obama and Hillary are going to increase government at a faster pace than will McCain."

How do you know this? Because Rush Limbaugh told you so? How about the fact that Reagan expanded the Federal Government by as much as 90% - mostly for Defense? And Bush increased government spending by 80%, not counting the costs of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars?

From the Libertarian site http://
www.independent.org/newsroom/news_detail.asp?newsID=31

can anyone tell me what exactly it was reverend wright said that started this firestorm?

i cannot accept as a given that what he said was racist because fox news and alot of bloggers say it is so-

what were the words that have people so up in arms?

no one here seems to have elaborated on the content- yet many seem to have some strong negative opinions about the man himself-

why?

Info relating to HIV/AIDS

View with h t t p and w w w

kff.org/hivaids/upload/3029-08.pdf

Sally; it is presuming - the sin of pride - for you to suggest the readers don't know what the so calledd "reverend" is saying and not saying. There are many reasons for the graduates of the Harvard Divinity School to be failures. Wright is only one of them.

HIV/AIDS

View link with h t t p and w w w

aegis.com/topics/timeline/

1981

On June 5th, the CDC reports that in the period October 1980-May 1981, 5 young men, all active homosexuals, were treated for biopsy-confirmed Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia at 3 different hospitals in Los Angeles, California. Two of the patients died. All 5 patients had laboratory-confirmed previous or current cytomegalovirus (CMV) infection and candidal mucosal infection.

On July 4th, the CDC reports that during the past 30 months, 26 cases of Kaposi Sarcoma have been reported among Gay males, and that eight have died, all within 24-months of diagnosis.

1982

CDC (USA) links the new disease to blood.

The term AIDS ("acquired immune dificiency syndrome") is used for the first time on July 27th.

The Gay Mens Health Crisis is founded in New York City.

1983

CDC (USA) warns blood banks of a possible problem with the blood supply.

Institut Pasteur (France) finds the virus (HIV).

1984

Dr. Robert Gallo (US) claims he discovered the virus that causes AIDS; however, this is about a year after the French discovery.

---------

Summary:

1981 The disease first diagnosed in white male homosexual men.

1983 The virus first found by the French.

1984 The virus confirmed by an American as cause of HIV.

The isolation of a virus in 1959 and symptoms of AIDS found in men in 1978 were only later to be considered relating to the same disease first described in 1981.

----------------
U.S. Public Health Service Syphilis Study at Tuskegee (Timeline)

View with h t t p and w w w

cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm

Ever wonder why Black people see this issue so differant than white people....Our struggles define the need to look for support in any man who takes the courage to bring our issues to the table...we not agree 100% with what is being said but under all that speaking what we do see is the desire for anyone to request a must needed change...white america and black america has deep insecure issues while just being played out in opposite ways.....Black people don't feel the security to get up and create change in their communities while white america don't feel the security to see us do it....

This deep rooted insecurity needs to be brought to the surface so we can effectivity deal with them.....

Peace

A republican thoroughbred will not be affected by facts when it comes to fiscal matters. I knew a fellow back when Nixon started his deficit spending for food stamps that would literally get exceedingly angry when it would be pointed out what the republicans and Nixon were doing. It was about the same with Reagan - nothing you can say or do will effect anything other than their emotional involvement and what comes back at ya. Human intelligence is apparently grossly over estimated.

It is right for Rev Wright to empower the blacks and seek to better their condition in every way. It should be done in a Christian spirit of forgiveness and love for enemies, without inculcating hatred in the blacks for the whites and without perpetuating a mentality of remaining stuck in the past of slavery and a feeling of victim-hood about the subtle and not so subtle discrimination today. Teaching the blacks to take responsibility for what they can change in themselves and their communities should be a part of the empowering process.

Rev Wright who lives a life of luxury is no Old Testament prophet. Even well established academics do not have access to such wealth. The blacks in the US do not live in slavery, so the symbolism of liberation is not so readily applicable. The blacks in the US do not suffer from the kind of government corruption and resulting poverty and oppression as people in Latin American countries where liberation theology was first formulated as answer to the political situation there.

Reading Noam Chomsky and others like him might be a good idea to understand Rev Wright better. Rev Wright's ideas seem to be a religious version of those thoughts, fashioned with Old Testament prophet symbolism, cut out for blacks in the US as answer to their experience of discrimination.

Rev Wright was careless about portraying some far fetched thoughts as facts which could be proved wrong. He was foolish to defend those errors so self-righteously. But as an intellectual he is no wacko. He is right there in the same league as Noam Chomsky and probably draws his political inspiration from such writing. He seems wacko only when he attributes that political style and content to the Old Testament prophets.

Rev Wright's social service conviction and work for the poor and marginalized in his community is Biblically based. Helping the poor with material goods was always a very important part of Christian ministry from its earliest days. It is ironic that something so fundamental to Christianity seems so communist in a capitalist democracy. Christianity is communist in that positive sense.

And being intimately connected with the government, I can tell you that the fiscal year begins on October 1.........

GARYD - no one expected you to change your mind.
There are plenty more where you came from.

Freeman sir is grossly out of touch with reality. Not uncommon for leftist economists assuming he is of course an economist and not just your usual leftist talking through hs hat Paul Krugman is an even a worse source for economic verite.

Freeman neglects to inform the reader that the Federal fiscal year doesn't begin until September which meant that the Reagan tax cuts did not even come into play until the year was mostly done. The full impact of the Tax cuts would not even be felt until '83.

The rest of the piece is not much more factual and scarcely deserving of the time to read it.

The article below is a reality check for GARYD - who seems to be devoted to GOP fiscal policy for some peculiar reason....read it and weep.

Don't blame it on the democrats. Presidents get the credit and the blame for everything that happens on their watch, and rightly so.

Bush's Tax Cuts
A Form of National Insanity
By ROBERT FREEMAN

Insanity, said Albert Einstein, is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results. By this measure, the latest Bush tax cuts qualify as certifiably insane.

Where have we seen this deranged fiscal strategy before? Remember Ronald Reagan and Supply Side Economics? In the early 1980s, Reagan promised the nation that if we lowered tax rates on the wealthy, the economy would grow so much the federal budget would be balanced "within three years, maybe even two."

Sober people were skeptical-and rightly so. Reagan's Republican opponent for the 1980 presidential election, George H.W. Bush called it "voodoo economics." His own Budget Director, David Stockman, called it a "Trojan horse," a scam intended really to funnel more money to the already rich. Stockman was quickly dismissed.

The results, we now know, were a disaster. In 1982, the first full year after the tax cuts were enacted, the economy actually shrank 2.2%, the worst performance since the Great Depression. And the effect on the federal budget was catastrophic.

Jimmy Carter's last budget deficit was $77 billion. Reagan's first deficit was $128 billion. His second deficit exploded to $208 billion. By the time the "Reagan Revolution" was over, George H.W. Bush was running an annual deficit of $290 billion per year.

Yearly deficits, of course, add up to national debt. When Reagan took office, the national debt stood at $994 billion. When Bush left office, it had reached $4.3 trillion. In other words, the national debt had taken 200 years to reach $1 trillion. Reagan's Supply Side experiment quadrupled it in the next 12 years.

Is there anything to compare this to? When Bill Clinton took office he intentionally reversed the Supply Side formula, raising taxes on the wealthy and reducing them on the lowest wage earners. Supply Side true believers predicted the arrival of the Apocalypse. Bob Dole said the stock market would collapse. Newt Gingrich said the world would fall into another Great Depression.

What actually happened?

Between 1992 and 2000, the U.S. economy produced the longest sustained economic expansion in U.S. history. It created more than 18 million new jobs, the highest level of job creation ever recorded. Inflation fell to 2.5% per year compared to the 4.7% average over the prior 12 years.

Real interest rates fell by over 40% producing the greatest housing boom ever. Overall economic growth averaged 4.0% per year compared to 2.8% average growth over the 12 years of the Reagan/Bush administrations. Most impressively, Clinton reversed the mammoth deficits of the Supply Side years, turning them into surpluses. He used these surpluses to begin paying down the national debt.

By virtually every meaningful measure-employment, growth, inflation, interest rates, investment, deficits and debt-the economy performed better once the Supply Side experiment was terminated and replaced with a more honest economic policy where we actually pay our bills as we go.

This might all be ancient history if the spectre of Supply Side economics had not reared its ugly head again once Bush II took office. In selling his $1.6 trillion tax cut-half of which went to the wealthiest 1% of Americans-Bush promised in 2001 that it would produce 800,000 new jobs. In fact, the economy has lost 2.7 million jobs since Bush took office, again, the worst economic performance since the Great Depression.

The effects of Bush's tax cut on the deficit and debt are exactly what we would expect having seen Reagan's results-only worse. Bush inherited from Clinton a fiscal surplus of $127 billion. In his first year he turned that into a deficit of $158 billion. In this, his second year, he will run a deficit of over $400 billion-a swing to the worse of over $600 billion in only two years.

Now Bush has sold us on still another megadose of this same Supply Side voodoo. Two thirds of his new $350 billion tax cut will go to the top 10% of income earners. Bush's Congressional ally, Tom DeLay, promises more such cuts for every year Bush is in office.

The long term effects of these policies are profoundly damaging. When Bush took office, the government's ten year surplus was forecast to total $5.6 trillion. This was critical to building fiscal soundness as the Baby Boomers begin to retire.

Now, the ten year forecast projects a cumulative deficit of $1.1 trillion, a net loss of $6.7 trillion in only two years. With the exception of World Wars, this is the greatest, most rapid destruction of public wealth in the history of the world.

This is $6.7 trillion that is not available to pay for an entire generation's retirement as we promised. It cannot rebuild the nation's schools or retrain the technologically unemployed. It cannot shore up a foundering Medicare system or provide insurance to the more than 40 million Americans without it. The interest costs of funding this debt will soon approach half a trillion dollars a year and will retard investment and, therefore, economic growth for decades to come.

All this torrent of debt does-and we shouldn't underestimate the prodigious potency of this feat-is line the pockets of Bush's already gorged campaign contributors.

Rarely in public affairs do we have the luxury of such starkly clear, empirically proven, historically sound contrasts. If Bush's tax cuts do not represent a fiscal process wildly out of control it is hard to imagine what does. And sadly, per Einstein's insanity dictum, we've seen it all before.

Bush wants people to believe these losses are due to a recession he inherited from Bill Clinton. But the economy has grown for seven of the last eight quarters Bush has been in office, hardly a recessionary environment. In truth, the losses owe to a reckless economic philosophy, the failings of which have been conclusively, and now repeatedly, demonstrated.

We need to wake up from our patriotism-besotted, war-induced stupor. Losses and debts of this magnitude threaten our nation's well being far more than do fictive weapons of mass destruction in the hands of a two bit, third world thug. Destroying our fiscal patrimony at the very moment we need it most-when history shows we should know better-is nothing short of national insanity.

MO - you want deluded?? Look in the mirror pal...

The national deficit grew by over 2 trillion under GWB all by his own self - with a majority republican congress aiding and abetting all the way.

There is nothing redeeming whatsoever about the present Bush administration - if you're an ordinary person, that is. Republicans always bow and scrape and pander to ordinary voters until they get elected. Then their true agenda comes to the forefront - Corporate America...how many ways can it be said?? McCain is a corporate suck-up....heart and soul, and now happily married to it.

And the fact is, democrats aren't much better .... however they're just liberal enough to occasionally pay attention to their real constituency - 'WE THE PEOPLE' ....and the recent restriction of and encroachment on personal and individual freedoms through overt and covert governmental means is generally far down the list on the democratic agenda - something that certainly can't be said about this administration, their congressional lackeys, and their deeply invasive policies - including warrantless wiretapping, the Patriot Act , and constitutional violations without number - and yes, many spineless democrats went right along with all of it.

Oh, and did I forget to mention our present devastating & budget busting war in Iraq? Not that we hear much about it lately unless a few of the enemy get blown away - then it's big news!

Lobbyists should be barred from Washington permanently - now there's a damn good start to real reform. Next, let's get rid of farm subsidies, and start de-constructing special interest legistation - including the dreaded pork barrel crap that costs taxpayers countless millions.

My problem recently with democrats is their aforementioned spineless, wishy washy ways - just too damn many rich folks crafting legislation in Washington if you ask me. Why would they vote against their own best interests, regardless of party??

We should think about that as we continue putting rich representatives back in both Houses time after time after time......

And to imagine that some folks want more of the same with McCain -

If there were a continuing organization somewhere that had/has no conscience, created the concept of one "God" which the organazation invented, and that intended to ultimately rule the world in perpetutity how would they continue their progress if they had created a nation such as the United States of America where the people believe they are in charge???????

Elimination of viable subsidiary governments (states) and bankruptcy of the consolidated government/organization would seem to be some of the "must do" actions. Creation of 'funny money' that can be created at will would also seem to be a major part of the process.

If government doesn't grow you don't have deficits.
The Democrats controlled the house of representatives for all of Reagan's 8 years and the Senate for all but 2 of Reagan's Terms as president.

The House of Representatives is where all spending bills must originate and since Gerald Ford the presidential Veto has been hamstrung by simply sending the president one big omnibus spending bill every year rather than several smaller ones. Giving the president the choice of closing down the government or holding hid nose and signing off on a Bill he really doesn't care for over all but which does contain a few of the things he wants.

Bush one cave to The democrats in all regards and the result was a flat economy and the Bill Clinton presidency whose first two years were as easily lackluster as Bush 1's last tow and GWB's 1st two.

In '95 the Republicans took over and Clinton vetoed their omnibus Bill relying on his media allies (the alphabet soup gang) to blame congress rather than him for the impasse, a hope no Republican president could ever depend on.

The ultimate result was that the wrong lesson was shown to the country which again the alphabet soup gang has been at great links to cover up. That lesson was that when the dead hand of government is remove from the economy's neck it promptly takes off. This however is the last thing the Dems and there alphabet soup gang want anyone to consider. They like government largely because they consider themselves to be the rightful and righteous wielders of such power. That they are neither of the two seems to never dawn on them.

The last time we tried Pay as you go socialism was the seventies and it all but ruined the country.

between the church of christ and the shrine of democracey.

for so god love the world,he gave up his only begotten son (it happen to be white skin ????????????).and the rest of mankind have to pay for it!

democracey died for the sin ,perfectness and safety of mankind????????????????????.

1-delusionism is the twin sister of colorism,if god would chose a son he could v chose adam the first son !

2-the creator god of this universe is the truth,the way and life.

3-the truth is one and the delusions are many.

GARYD - rather than growth of government I'd be worrying about a continued growth of the national deficit. Did you know that over 70% of our current debt was incurred during the administration of two Bushes and a Reagan??

What with McCain's proclivity for following in the footsteps of Bush, including America's current potential for starting wars at the drop of a hat, I'd be very concerned about McCain's negative effect on our already fragile economy.

You're suffering from the republican libertarian myth/delusion of runaway government growth under democrats - when in fact under Bush you've had simultaneous government growth and reduced government funding by virtue of the Bush tax breaks for the rich - which would continue under McCain in perpetuity. A complete lack of governmental oversight in the banking industry has helped put us where we are today with the mortgage and foreclosure crisis, etc. - with a wink and a nod from Bush/Cheney and company.

On the other hand, never has an administration implemented such control and micro-managerial manipulation over a host of governmental agencies whose findings and rulings portend a potential negative impact over corporate interests. Long story short, Corporate American has never been so protected or benefitted so richly as under our current White House administration. More of the same to be expected from McCain, to be sure - McCain is Corporate America's knight in shining armor. The utter lack of ethical behavior by Bushco is beyond appalling and is the stuff of future prosecutorial action, if there's any justice.......but we shouldn't hold our collective breath.

Going to war was bad enough, but the First Rule of war should always be ... never go to war and give tax breaks at the same time - don't you agree??

The Bush administration has fostered the worst and most destructive domestic and international policies in modern history - and there's every reason to believe that McCain and his GOP cronies (if there are any left after November) will continue those policies unabated.

And you're worried about Obama and Clinton???

Get real.........

My bad the last Anonymous post is mine it was supposed to be addressed to anonymous and i go in too much of a hurry.

Wright's comments don't mean much unless he knows something the rest of us don't know about Obama.

The fact that millions would put Obama in charge of the United States of America is certainly testimony to the malability of the human mind and makes the question of whether or not humans, or elements of humanity, are capable of self government a debatable issue. Those that would turn the Untied States over to Obama and his entourage should be considered highly suspect for self governement.

Sorry I'm not a big fan of McCain either I just see him as the least dangerous of the available alternatives.

What I abhor is government growth. Obama and Hillary are going to increase government at a faster pace than will McCain.

In Defence of Obama, previously posted on another thread:

There once was a preacher named Wright
Who was preaching with all of his might
So he lied with great glee
To stop Obama's candidacy
Let's all toss Wright out in the night

- Arminius

You can smear Obama all the live long day - but McCain remains our worst nightmare. He and his cronies are hiding out until the dust blows over.
At that point, McCain and his zombie controllers will rise from the dead and lead us into a hell on earth. If you thought Bush was the worst you ain't seen nothin' yet.......

Omaha how do you see with all that sand in your eyes? If Wright was the only glitch you might have a point. But with Obama you not only get the wright diatribes, But William Ayres the unrepentant weatherman terroist on the record as saying they didn't blow up enough stuff, Resco, and who knows what next week.

For a man with so little time in politics Obama has certainly managed to collect some interesting baggage.

All of this stuff sticks almost entirely because Obama has no track record to speak of outside of Chicago and the Illinois Assembly.

No comment. Question. Which member of any media outlet paper, network or cable t.v. acted like a Christian skewering Obama. Apparently he has shown more dignity and sanity than anyone who has lambasted him. As you listen to the maniacal ravings of Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Ingram and yes Hillary's camp you can tell that they sit on their religion. God bless and Save America.

Patrick D. Shannon :
Sally Quinn said on the Charley Rose Show that in the Tuskegee Experiment, the US government infected African-American men with syphilis. The researchers watched the development of infections that they did not cause. And the researchers lied by telling the men they were being treated for that disease.

______
I will add to this. There were 5 clinicians involved in the Tuskegee experiments. 2 were black! In fact, the head of the hospital that ran the program was black!

Forget not the good done by Rev Wright
One wrong does not cancel a right
Throw not the baby with the bathwater
Discard not the wheat with the chaff.

Turn not a deaf ear to the cries of the black
Who live in the richest country in the world
Many of whom are yet miserably poor
Trapped many a time for no fault of their own
Unable to pull themselves out
With the strap of their own boots.

Hidden beneath the wrong word of Wright
Are pearls of wisdom
The muted cry of a people in pain
Turn not away from your brothersB and sisters
Listen to their heart filled with dreams
Even if badly articulated wrongly by Wright.

But excuse me, is Rev Jeremiah Wright running for the President of the United States?

Does the pastor of every presidential candidate have to qualify for the candidacy as well?

If yes, what about Senator Obama's neighbor's dog? If the dog has a history of having bitten the postman at one time, surely that disqualifies Senator Obama. After all, Senator Obama should have reported the matter to the police instead of continuing to live as a neighbor to the owner of such a terribly spoiled and monstrous pet for twenty years.

A foreigner am I
The business with Rev Wright
Is political dynamite
This devil's advocate
May be right.

Senator Obama is gonna be damned if he does
And damned if he doesn't
O poor man, his dream turned nightmare
With friends like Rev Wright
Does Senator Obama need an enemy.

Is Rev Wright
Merely a man of his time,
Or is he a man who looked into his reflection
And fell in love with himself
Did power and money corrupt him,
Or is he the prophet
He claims to be.

Rev Wright could best have helped his cause
For liberation of his people
By helping Senator Obama
As best as he could.

But alas the man
His own agenda in mind
Now shoots himself in the leg
His people too.

Does a hero blame a whole people
His own
For his words of indiscretion
Driven by his illusion of prophethood.

Why does he not apologize
For misrepresented facts
AIDS by God was thought at first
To be a curse on white homosexual men
By religious folk.

Studying the natural course of a disease,
Syphilis, was bad science done in ignorance.
Ever since taught as warning against poor science
Long before Rev Wright ever heard of it.

Rev Wright is a Christian
Why does he remain in the Old Testament
Did not Jesus preach
Forgiveness and love for enemies.

Why does Rev Wright
Preach damnation and revenge
Instead of binding the wounds
And seeking reconciliation.

Why not learn from the Jews
Who take revenge by excelling
In everything they do
Too busy to be hating and cursing
Their oppressors of the past and present.

A poem by Kola Boof for the Rev. Wright and the Christian and Muslim readers of this blog to peruse and ponder-

"BINT IL NIL" (poetwomen.50megs.com/)

I want a new religion.
The one our mothers had in the river.

I am tired of Jesus and Mohammed.
I am tired of man's foot.
I am tired of the White man's mother.
I am weary...from doing nothing about it.

I want my own religion.
I want my real mother.

Africa, I want you.

Make me pregnant with God.
Our own perfect babies...Black as perfection.
Tall as the sky. Healthy as light sparkling on
clear water.

I want my own religion.
I want my own voice.
I want my own face.
I want my own hair.
I am Naima/the one who is victorious
the one"

I posted this on Dr. Carruther's blog, but it fits here as well!

You have to be kidding....

"The concept of community within the prophetic black church tradition is rooted in its African DNA and expressed in its African American being. Thousands of years before the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade, African culture and society have been and continues to be largely characterized as communal in nature. This means African societies have as core values the well-being of community interests, even at the subordination of one’s individual interests."

Do you read the same newspapers I do??? Africa is one of the violent continents in the world... What community are you talking about? The one in Zimbabwe, Liberia, Ivory Coast, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, etc, etc....!!! Core value????? Give me a break!

I wish you would look at this link about African slavery history: http://autocww.colorado.edu/~blackmon/E64ContentFiles/AfricanHistory/SlaveryInAfrica.html

I am not a racist, never have been. I take people at their core values, individually. But I would suggest that your "Black Church" preachers should highlight the problems of the African American community and attempt to put a stop to it instead of blaming everything on "Whitey" as you call Caucasians.

I am a European immigrant to this country so I don't carry a lot of the baggage that American's seem to have in regards to race. I don't see what you describe. I have had the opportunity to work in Washington DC for 3 years and here is what I observed. There are a lot of very well educated, nice, hard working African Americans whom I am proud to call a friend and a lot of sleazebags. In the inner city “ghettos“, there are a lot of unsavory characters that include both men and women. They are drug dealers and gang members, calling each other n*gg*rs and their women hos, are fascinated by gansta rap, the women screech at each other in a language that most people can't understand, become pregnant at very young ages and live a miserable live having absolutely no respect for themselves. The first time I heard that "Ebonics "should be taught in school, I thought that this is the most crazy country I have ever lived in. You all grew up with the same language, the same TV, the same schools, yet you insist on not speaking proper English. One does not aks a question, one asks a question. Maybe your black church pastors should address what is wrong within the black community instead of blaming everything on covert racism.

No different than the white community. Whites certainly have the same problems....there are many whom I don't want to meet in daylight, much less at night. We call those people trailer trash.

Both black and whites in this country choose what they want to be. That some Black Church pastors, and you, want to blame all of your ills on white America’s racism is more than unfortunate and, plainly, wrong.

And, yes, if Obama wins the nomination I intend to vote for him even though I have always voted Republican.....the man has class!

Why, Christie? There aren't enough liars firing for effect here already.

Sally,
Invite Jeremiah Wright to join your panel. I would like to hear his thoughts on a host of topics.

Happy May Day Pagans!
Happy Labor Day workers!
Happy whatever-day-you-thieved-from-the-Celts Christians!
Happy Loyalty Day nationalist zombies!

And speaking of a successful surge, the death toll for both Iraqis and Americans was at a 7 month high at the end of April.

I can well imagine some of the older posters here (you know who you are) being either dead themselves or at death's door by the time we exit Iraq if McCain were to get elected.

How could success be any more clear-cut than that?

'Death's Door'

Blood on the wall,
Broken glass scattered
The taste of gun powder
Sounds of sirens
Fighting darkness
Troubles no longer matter
No more pain
Only memories
That start to fade

Last seconds of repent
I quietly whisper
As the blood empties to the floor
A repeated sinner
Day after day
Now I look at my soul
Face to face
On the footsteps of death....

author unknown

The question should be why are so many in the Democratic party pushing someone for President of the United States that we know so little about when the Democratic candidate should have been able to win easily?? There is no reason to believe that Obama has the knowledge and administrative ability to bring about the "change" in Washington that he keeps talking about. Claiming an "outsider" can change Washington is a big joke and that is known to whoever is really behind Obama. The joke is on the good people of the United States of America.

An update on our War on Terror and Aggression:

An update (or how we are or how we have spent USA taxpayers’ money to eliminate global terror and aggression- as per yesterday, Iraq's oil profit windfall, $171 million, will be used for Iraq's reconstruction- we shall see!)

A Partial and Rather Recent Body Count

1) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto.

2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, 4056 US troops and 83,221 – 90,782 Iraqi civilians

4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.

5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

8) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

Other elements of our War on Terror:

1. Saddam, his sons and major henchmen have been deleted. Saddam's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes.

2. Iran is being been contained. (besides containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)

3. Libya has become almost civil. Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “crazies” as they recently threatened Libya. OBL sure is a disgrace to the world especially the Moslem world!!! (Or is he?)

4. North Korea is still uncivil but is contained. With the opening up of rail traffic between North and South Korea after 50 years and with the assistance of the US Navy in retrieving NK ships and personnel, a fresh sense of civility is afoot. One of the most eminent US cultural institutions, the New York Philharmonic Orchestra, has performed a landmark concert in North Korea.

The concert included music by Western composers and a Korean folk song, and was broadcast live on local television.

Unfortunately, North Korea’s apparent move toward peace did not last long as they fired test missiles and threatened South Korea with military action recently.

5. Northern Ireland is finally at peace.

6. The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords and the Annapolis Peace Conference is at least somewhat successful.

7. Bin Laden has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.

8. Fanatical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghahistan and Pakistan.

9.Timothy McVeigh was executed. Terry Nichols will follow soon.

10. Eric Rudolph is spending three life terms in prison with no parole.

11. Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.

12. Islamic Sudan, Darfur and Somalia are still terror hot spots. The US continues to target Islamic terrorists in Somalia via missile strikes.

13. The terror and torture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends.

14. And of course the bloody terror brought about the Japanese, Nazis and Communists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.

"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Well. Americans have loved God and guns for a long time. In fact, our founders wrote the right to cling to God and guns into the fabric of our government..

Forget the words of the former pastor. Its Obama's words that won't be forgotten by many voters.

Ahmed -

You make a number of cogent observations. In fact, the American public has been led by the nose through skewed and disingenuous media reporting for the last 7 going on 8 years.

True journalistic reporting has disappeared altogether, and instead we have had a rampant lack of truth telling all this time, with mainly positive spin about the progress in Iraq and Afghanistan - occasionally they do seem to be required to mention to growing number of dead (both good and bad guys, but the dead bad guys get more coverage).

Petraeus has become the media face of the Iraqi war, effectively replacing Bush as the front man. Nothing but positive news on John McCain and the surge, of course. And naturally he benefits from all this drawnout dissention among democrats. Hillary has new life as well.........

In any event, whether Obama's former preacher is Wright or wrong, he has probably done serious harm to Obama's presidential efforts - the media seems to relish this turn of events and feeds fuel to the fire. Surely anyone associated with Obama and his campaign would know that negative news will be capitalized on by forces antagonistic to his eventual nomination - if a white guy with genuine war credentials like John Kerry can be effectively swiftboated by the liars and dissembling aholes of the Republican National Committee, imagine how much more fragile and vulnerable Obama's position today.

So what we're perpetually stuck with is an uninformed but entertained general public that continues to be saturated with nothing but yellow 'journalism' by media figures turned tabloid gossip columnists. They have their marching orders - before long, Rupurt Murdoch should own much of what passes for mainstream media outlets, both printed and spoken - despite the anti-trust laws on the books that were designed to prevent monopolistic takeovers.

This is indeed an Alice in Wonderland world we're living in.........

A 2 part question.
part 1: Wright is an educated bigot. I really don't care what HE says, the man has a right to speak. It is the response of the man who wants to be president that is important.
Part 2: For 20 years Obama sat there and listened, he contributed big bucks Yet, he never heard a racist word or read the racist bulletin? This demonstrates an abysmal lack of judgement and spine. As for people up in arms about this, look if one follows the words of MLK, and judge by character and not color, both Obama and Wright come out on the short end. It's a shame.

If Sally is feeling so passionate about the racism of white America-

I suggest she fire all her servants- her drivers and maids and landscapers. If she believes in social equality and wants to see social justice in her own life. She can begin by driving herself, cleaning her own houses, and mowing her own lawns..

?

They want people to question Obama's interigity and they do not want him to win the nomination. I can not judge his style of preaching because I have never heard him in church. I have only heard parts of his sermond on television. But,I can say when he spoke I was educated on things I did not know. His question and answer session was a bit sarcastic, arrogant, and narcistic I think he could have found a better way of conveying his message to the people, maybe they would have accepted it better, because it was the truth.

Image this.......the end,....
..your games of munipulation have run its course........good-bye is in order.

Sally, you were so good on Charlie Rose. You are insightful and sensitive. I'm a 60 year old white lady and much or Rev. Wright's speech hit me as the truth, positive about bringing all of us together and an opportunity for all of America that is not familiar with a Black Church to learn a lot. We need more open minded folks out there like you on television. I read CNN's blogs right after Rev. Wright's speech and the positive comments outnumbered the negatives 2 to 1 and then the blog was closed. Where is that story? I truly don't get why people are so offended by REv. Wright. When he said GD America, he was quoting another person - those were not his own words. He didn't mock or speak hatefully of white people, he spoke the truth. The government did do the Tusgee experiment and I'd be suspicious of the government related to health issues if my 'race' had been targed in such an experiment. He was a marine and Bush and Chaney's military records can't touch that of Rev. Wright. Nothing happens in a vacuum - there are circumstances - even around the horrible event of 911. We are not loved in most of the world and it is not just envy of our fabulous life-style that creates criticism of the U.S. We need to take a hard look at our foreign policies and understand what these policies produce. No, of course, we did not deserve what occurred on Sept. 11 but we must not be in denial about our perception abroad. Keep up the good work.

Sally, you were so good on Charlie Rose. You are insightful and sensitive. I'm a 60 year old white lady and much or Rev. Wright's speech hit me as the truth, positive about bringing all of us together and an opportunity for all of America that is not familiar with a Black Church to learn a lot. We need more open minded folks out there like you on television. I read CNN's blogs right after Rev. Wright's speech and the positive comments outnumbered the negatives 2 to 1 and then the blog was closed. Where is that story? I truly don't get why people are so offended by REv. Wright. When he said GD America, he was quoting another person - those were not his own words. He didn't mock or speak hatefully of white people, he spoke the truth. The government did do the Tusgee experiment and I'd be suspicious of the government related to health issues if my 'race' had been targed in such an experiment. He was a marine and Bush and Chaney's military records can't touch that of Rev. Wright. Nothing happens in a vacuum - there are circumstances - even around the horrible event of 911. We are not loved in most of the world and it is not just envy of our fabulous life-style that creates criticism of the U.S. We need to take a hard look at our foreign policies and understand what these policies produce. No, of course, we did not deserve what occurred on Sept. 11 but we must not be in denial about our perception abroad. Keep up the good work.

Ahmed asks: "But do you have the will?"

Clearly, no. Nor do we have the collective intelligence needed to create that will.

>>

The above statement could not be more ridiculous.
Christ was nailed to the cross. The racist Wright is loving every minute, soaking up the adoration from his fellow leftist, racist, America-haters.

RP says-

"Black church was born in the days of slavery as Black folks were not allowed in the white church."

Who then shared the Good News with the slaves?

This "black church" "white church" mentality is a social construct and has nothing to do with the true Church- "spread out through all time and space and rooted in eternity, terrible as an army with banners". (C.S. Lewis)

If you are still attending a "black church"- you are sitting in the back of the bus because you chose the seating.

Rachel, the Black church was born in the days of slavery as Black folks were not allowed in the white church. My church in Washington DC, rose out of segregation and allowed blacks to attend, but they had to sit in the choir loft in the back of this huge building, not with their white brothers and sisters. Even then, it was too close for white folks' comfort. So the white folks left the church, leaving Black folks to have it. Today, this church sits in the heart of DC in the middle of affluent and poor multiracial communities, and anyone is welcome, but the church remains predominately Black. Sweetie, racism is alive and well in this country, even in the church. Speak from what you know. This is a racially divided country and always has been, especially in the church. Rev. Dr. Wright is preaching the truth according to the Word of God, but because he is a pastor of a Black Church and not afraid to bring the racism issue to the altar of God where it should be in order for us to rid our communities of the hatred that goes along with it, we question his motives. This is a sad day in America, that because a black man is running for President, Rev. Wright is being nailed to the cross.

I actually posted a response to Sally Quinn's apologetic post and it was never posted. Nevertheless, yes, I believe it's very left, liberal guilt. Again, I am African American and my parents grew up during the civil rights movement and of course, some African Americans are still dealing with the horrific experiences of our history. But as a chirstian, I trust that God will work out all things according to His plan. However, again, I believe Jeremiah Wright is a theologian but I do also believe, he's filled with pride and has put Obama in a position that he probably didn't deserve. Pastors are supposed to preach God's word for His glory not for the pastor's glory. Athena, I guess if you call those who believe the Bible to be verbally inspired of God and inerrant, and that they are of supreme and final authority in faith and life; then maybe I wouldn't mind being called a fundamentalist as certain belief are fundamental to Christianity. However, I do believe that you shouldn't generalize as when you say we believe every thing that comes from the pulpit; sure if it lines up w/scripture. I wouldn't stay in a church that doesn't preach the whole gospel, including, human depravity, sin, repentance, HOLINESS. That's what I want to hear about in church...

On Charlie Rose last night, Sally Quinn was a most eloquent and amiable white-bread apologist for the anti-white anti-American, ultra leftist Jeramiah Wright.
Smiling all the while, she so much as accused 90% of WHITE Church goers (I guess she has done extensive research somewhere to come up with that number) of being racists, presumably because we are all too simple to understand the "Black liberation Theology" that Wright so cleverly weaves into his hate-filled, antagonistic propaganda.
Either Quinn is stunningly naive, which I find hard to believe, or just another in a string of main stream media leftist lap dogs.

Sally Quinn's thoughtful report (Charlie Rose) on the Wright speech to the National Press Club is the only account I've heard or seen on the vast difference between the reaction of the press in the gallery and that of the audience seated below. She is also the only person I've heard comment on what I was struck with in Obama's rebuttal: how terribly sad Obama appeared.

Dear Sally, I enjoyed your commentary on Charlie's show no end. You were like a fresh breeze in a smelly world. I am glad to know that there a few soles in this country with insightfull, courageous, intellegent minds. Please thank Charlie for his intellegence in inviting you. Love you, Dave Oakhust, CA

Dear Sally, I enjoyed your commentary on Charlie's show no end. You were like a fresh breeze in a smelly world. I am glad to know that there a few soles in this country with insightfull, courageous, intellegent minds. Please thank Charlie for his intellegence in inviting you. Love you, Dave Oakhust, CA

I watched Sally Quinn on Charlie Rose last night. While I found her insights regarding Wright,etc. very thoughtful, I'm afraid she is misinformed regarding the Tuskegee Experiment. Those men were NOT inoculated with syphilis as she (and many) believe. These men HAD syphillis and were not treated, though made to think they were, which is a horror of its own, but very different in kind. Not only were they not treated, they were purposefully kept from being treated. It is important to note, as well, that this all took place under the watchful and knowing eye of a black university, black doctors and nurses over a 40 year period. There was a lot of blame to go around. Is Rev. Wright also misinformed ? It would seem so.

Only problem I have with Wright was I felt he had a gloating and haughty attitude in the National Press Club speech. I watched the piece with him on Bill Moyer. When the whole speechs were mapped out, not just snippets, you get a clearer picture of his message. Didn't see anything racist or bigoted about it. Didn't her 'white man' this or 'white man' that. Funny how some white people maybe be offended when he spoke about America's sins. I think it is just as haughty and arrogant to assume that when some one calls America's flaws to light, they are assume that it's directed solely to white people, like the different races and ethnicities have nothing to do with the country. What part of his speech when he spoke about native americans losing there land, declaration of independence and land of liberty in the constitution while we had slaves listed as 3/5ths of a person, anit-semitism, japanese imprisonment after the attack on pearl harbor, the bombing of innocent civilians in Japan in retribution, the numerous hands we have had negatively in Foreign countries?

If one doesn't like how he presents the message I can understand that, but the message is clear. Everyone praises Martin Luther King this days but white america overall, with some exceptions, didn't want to hear that same message delivered differently. You had 'Chirstian' politicians who didn't even want the King holiday (ie McCain). But oh, since he's running for president and wants the black vote he is now 'sincerely' sorry.

Let's flip the coin. Over our countries history their have been umpteen politicians who sat through sunday sermons that preached white supremacy, endorsing slavery, then segregation. Yet the media, who drug those corny snippets of Wright through the mud, want to crucify Obama. Though he is trying to unite. Fred Barnes calling a Wright a 'hater and divider' is ludacris. How can the racial issues ever get solved if the powers to be and the media jumps on anyone who brings up the past and present mistreatment and unequal conditions. Anmesia does not lead to healing the wounds, only to the one who inflicted the wounds, not to the one who received them. That lacks compassion and sensitivity and has led to backlash, and someone like Wright delivering that message harshly. Props to Marsha Quinn on the Charlie Rose show the other night.

I'm by no means stumping for Obama, Clinton or McCain. Funny how all this 'Christians' want to rule 'The Free World' when Christians should know who actually rules the world. Christians are followers of Christ, he refused man-made politics while all 3 of these embrace it.

Ahmed, Ahmed, Ahmed,

What gall you have with said commentary being a follower of that warmongering, illiterate, greed and lust driven, womanizing and hallucinating Arab named Mohammed.

Please address the other flaws, errors, muck and stench aka "the fems" of Islam in your next commentary.

The "fems" of Islam:

1. Belief in "pretty/ugly wingie thingies".

2. Belief that an hallucinating, illiterate Arab did actually talk to the "pretty Gabriel" in the hot "Gabe" cave and therein received the warmongering and anti-female words and resultant laws now listed in the koran.

3. That Shiites are less than human or Sunnis are less than human depending on what Islamic cult you belong to.

4. That Islam is perfect and the koran inherently condones no sin even though the 24/7, 800 year-old blood feud between Sunnis and Shiites gives significant credence that greed, hate, suicides, assassinations, maiming, and murder are condoned by the koran. Male Islamics to include imams and clerics having multiple wives also gives significant credence to the sins of rape, adultery, lust and polygamy. The condoned treatment of these wives gives credence that the koran allows the sins of hatred, anger and greed.

Wright is being fought by the media because the media hates truth and have been out there to hide the truth about Iran, Afghanistan and Palestine and now Iran. They seem tirelss about promoting war and use of brute force but the cabal in Washington.

Wright speaks the truth. pitty most of America hates the truth. Take a close look at what US foreign policy has been doing around the world and especially in Middle East. Your 5th Fleet is stationed in my home town, a small island of half a million people. None of us vote and US government loves the dictator.

So, stop preaching about freedom to me. REMOVE YOUR TROOPS from foreign lands. Use the money to help your own poor and dispossessed. Listen to people like Wright. He tells it the way it is. Truth is hard to swallow and pride is the downfall of all empires. America is no different. Hubris shall announce end of empire.

Even your woman first candidate has to bow down at the altar of Zionists and pledge her support to Israel by "obliterating" Iran.

Ask yourselves this: Has your ticket to presidency become so low that it depends on who can bomb Israel enemies the hardest? What kind of a mindset is this? Have you no domestic problems that your candidates can tackle and win election on such points???

Poor yanks. Wars, wars, wars. That is all you are interested in. You make war and talk about peace. You kill people and talk about freedom. You preach Christs love but follow god of Zion. You love the child but crucify the man. You want to go to Heaven but abhor death or even growing old.

Time to wake up and be part of ONE life. Change your anthem: instead of saying God bless America. try: God bless humanity. Then put your money where your mouth is. You have the money and the power to do so. But do you have the will?

Sally, I have just finished listening to you on the Charlie Rose show and want to thank you for your objective, empathetic observations of Rev. Jeremiah Wright's address at the National Press Club on Monday. It was especially telling for me that most of the official press (those folks we all depend on for our news) separated themselves from the audience which was largely made up of black theologians, and observed the proceedings from on high.

Not surprisingly, it appears that from their self imposed distance, they missed the opportunity to engage their humanity and have the visceral experience you had, that might have given them something more to say on the subject than essentially the same thing each of their similarly ensconced colleagues had to say: "Bad guy, worse."

It is not difficult for me to understand the impulse Rev. Wright must be feeling to speak up in an effort to be viewed in 3D after seeing himself and his life's work caricatured in the way he has been by Fox News and the others. To have been looped and looped and re-looped in those carefully edited seconds of sound bites which were designed to do just what they hope to have done----to distract the American public, and by the most tenuous of premises to discredit Barack Obama, in an attempt to derail his momentum toward the White House.

Why was it exactly that whatever Wright might have said so many years ago was "news"?

I have to say, I was disappointed in Charlie Rose tonight. He kept asking the black guests to reassure white America that most black people do not believe what Rev. Wright seems to believe.
How ludicrous!

It would make more sense to me for him to have some of the white (presumably Christian) voters from Pennsylvania who said without a hint of shame that they "would not vote for a Black candidate" come on the program and assure black Americans that in 2008 they are living in an America where they can expect to be judged for the quality of their accomplishments and the content of their character---that racial discrimination is a thing of the past, and we are operating on a level playing field now.

All Rev. Wright is really saying is that black people from the holds of those slave ships on have had to take anything white America says with a grain of salt. And, that the bible itself tells you that the dirt you do will come back to you. That's as American as apple pie. I'm sure your mama told you that, didn't she? Do unto others....

Now it's the AIDS comments that are being bandied about as further evidence of Wright's "fringe lunacy." I do not happen to believe this theory (but it is not the first time I have heard it). However, the Tuskegee Experiment Charlie flitted over happened right here in America just a little more than 50 years ago. How different are things now, really? What is going on at Guantanamo? Abu Ghraib? When we view some people as less than human, or just less than, all manner of hateful, inhumane things can(and do)happen.

What are the chances we're going to get back to a discussion of how to provide universal access to health care in America, strengthen our economy, fix social security, slow global warming, or work toward world peace in this election cycle???

We need to get over Rev. Wright(or whatever they come up with next week) and get focused on compelling the people we will have to choose among to lead us into the next decade to talk about what should really matter to all of us.

Robin Wood

Sally, I have just finished listening to you on the Charlie Rose show and want to thank you for your objective, empathetic observations of Rev. Jeremiah Wright's address at the National Press Club on Monday. It was especially telling for me that most of the official press (those folks we all depend on for our news) separated themselves from the audience which was largely made up of black theologians, and observed the proceedings from on high.

Not surprisingly, it appears that from their self imposed distance, they missed the opportunity to engage their humanity and have the visceral experience you had, that might have given them something more to say on the subject than essentially the same thing each of their similarly ensconced colleagues had to say: "Bad guy, worse."

It is not difficult for me to understand the impulse Rev. Wright must be feeling to speak up in an effort to be viewed in 3D after seeing himself and his life's work caricatured in the way he has been by Fox News and the others. To have been looped and looped and re-looped in those carefully edited seconds of sound bites which were designed to do just what they hope to have done----to distract the American public, and by the most tenuous of premises to discredit Barack Obama, in an attempt to derail his momentum toward the White House.

Why was it exactly that whatever Wright might have said so many years ago was "news"?

I have to say, I was disappointed in Charlie Rose tonight. He kept asking the black guests to reassure white America that most black people do not believe what Rev. Wright seems to believe.
How ludicrous!

It would make more sense to me for him to have some of the white (presumably Christian) voters from Pennsylvania who said without a hint of shame that they "would not vote for a Black candidate" come on the program and assure black Americans that in 2008 they are living in an America where they can expect to be judged for the quality of their accomplishments and the content of their character---that racial discrimination is a thing of the past, and we are operating on a level playing field now.

All Rev. Wright is really saying is that black people from the holds of those slave ships on have had to take anything white America says with a grain of salt. And, that the bible itself tells you that the dirt you do will come back to you. That's as American as apple pie. I'm sure your mama told you that, didn't she? Do unto others....

Now it's the AIDS comments that are being bandied about as further evidence of Wright's "fringe lunacy." I do not happen to believe this theory (but it is not the first time I have heard it). However, the Tuskegee Experiment Charlie flitted over happened right here in America just a little more than 50 years ago. How different are things now, really? What is going on at Guantanamo? Abu Ghraib? When we view some people as less than human, or just less than, all manner of hateful, inhumane things can(and do)happen.

What are the chances we're going to get back to a discussion of how to provide universal access to health care in America, strengthen our economy, fix social security, slow global warming, or work toward world peace in this election cycle???

We need to get over Rev. Wright(or whatever they come up with next week) and get focused on compelling the people we will have to choose among to lead us into the next decade to talk about what should really matter to all of us.

Robin Wood

Sally Quinn said on the Charley Rose Show that in the Tuskegee Experiment, the US government infected African-American men with syphilis. The researchers watched the development of infections that they did not cause. And the researchers lied by telling the men they were being treated for that disease.

Sally Quinn said on the Charley Rose Show that in the Tuskegee Experiment, the US government infected African-American men with syphilis. The researchers only watched the development of the infection. And the researchers lied by telling the men they were being treated for that disease.

Just read "The Anatomy of Wright's Disinvitation" at Tom Bevan at realclearpolitics.com

The lies of Obama on this issue are laid bare as transparently as can be. If the Obama and his acolytes think that this is resolved, they are sadly mistaken. The jig is up for Obama. I think he will likely lose NC next week, and that will make it crystal clear for anyone. If the dems still want to nominate him, then they will be doing it with eyes wide open.

What? Surely you jest. Wright's out and out lies don't even compare to Haggee's statement which is in point of fact tamer than what his leftist atheistic hypocrite critics have said.

Considering that Parsley's idea of destroying Islam is to peacefully convert all of it's followers to Christianity comparing that to Wright's impossible lie regarding AIDS is silly.

Now, let's be fair. Let's demand that Hillary distance herself from that 12% of the voters she got in Pennsylvania, who declared that they would not vote for a black American President. That's un-American and morally reprehensible. That's the vote she used to win there. Aside from that, this represents the additional stress and load that black Americans, who are fighting and dying in Iraq, have to shoulder in addition to the weight of their weapons.

As for John McCain, he embraced a minister (Hagee), who called Catholicism a whorish religion. Why isn't he being forced to wear the same cloak that has been thrown upon Farrakhan? It should be demanded that he refute not only Hagee but all of those who have not yet left Hagee's church. This is the same Hagee, who said that Katrina was, in effect, God's way of punishing those POOR people for sinning. The rich go free. That's the God Hagee serves folks!! If we are going to play slimy politics then let's be equal opportunity slimy.

Finally, isn’t it about time someone take those ministers to task, whose members from one generation after another exist with such animus in their hearts? What bible are the ministers using? Why aren’t those members, who are never healed of their hatred, leaving those churches because obviously they are not being helped? When are we going to have a discussion about why people can have such unabated virulent hatred against a people whom their ancestors enslaved? If there should be hatred in such a case, isn’t it flowing in the wrong direction? It is truly sad that no one jumped on that 12% for four or five days. The unspoken word must be that this attitude is acceptable.

Now, let's be fair. Let's demand that Hillary distance herself from that 12% of the voters she got in Pennsylvania, who declared that they would not vote for a black American President. That's un-American and morally reprehensible. That's the vote she used to win there. Aside from that, this represents the additional stress and load that black Americans, who are fighting and dying in Iraq, have to shoulder in addition to the weight of their weapons.

As for John McCain, he embraced a minister (Hagee), who called Catholicism a whorish religion. Why isn't he being forced to wear the same cloak that has been thrown upon Farrakhan? It should be demanded that he refute not only Hagee but all of those who have not yet left Hagee's church. This is the same Hagee, who said that Katrina was, in effect, God's way of punishing those POOR people for sinning. The rich go free. That's the God Hagee serves folks!! If we are going to play slimy politics then let's be equal opportunity slimy.

Finally, isn’t it about time someone take those ministers to task, whose members from one generation after another exist with such animus in their hearts? What bible are the ministers using? Why aren’t those members, who are never healed of their hatred, leaving those churches because obviously they are not being helped? When are we going to have a discussion about why people can have such unabated virulent hatred against a people whom their ancestors enslaved? If there should be hatred in such a case, isn’t it flowing in the wrong direction? It is truly sad that no one jumped on that 12% for four or five days. The unspoken word must be that this attitude is acceptable.

According to what I've read, Rev. Wright's intellectualism and social progressiveness that attracted Obama to Trinity. However, he did disagree politically with a lot of Rev. Wright's opinions. I would imagine that I would have the same reaction, if I was looking for a church. The pastor is not the entire church. You can like the people, the vibe, the social inclusiveness, etc., but sometimes disagree with the person in the pulpit.

Just because Fundamentalists believe everything that is said from the pulpit, doesn't meant that other Christian denominations are the same way.

Dear Sally,

Please, please don't go on Imus' radio show again. It makes for awful radio. Your flowery comments were disturbing and reveal you are a guilty white liberal.

The trouble in this world is usually based on religion and kooks who warp it, from Islam to Black Liberation Theology. Your comments today do nothing to make me feel differently.

To paraphrase Imus: "Get off my radio! No Mas!"

Pedro
A typical white guy

Dear Sally,

Please, please don't go on Imus' radio show again. It makes for awful radio. Your flowery comments were disturbing and reveal you are a guilty white liberal.

The trouble in this world is usually based on religion and kooks who warp it, from Islam to Black Liberation Theology. Your comments today do nothing to make me feel differently.

To paraphrase Imus: "Get off my radio! No Mas!"

Pedro
A typical white guy

Dear Sally,

Please, please don't go on Imus' radio show again. It makes for awful radio. Your flowery comments were disturbing and reveal you are a guilty white liberal.

The trouble in this world is usually based on religion and kooks who warp it, from Islam to Black Liberation Theology. Your comments today do nothing to make me feel differently.

To paraphrase Imus: "Get off my radio! No Mas!"

Pedro
A typical white guy

"The only thing that matters is why did Obama sit through that church for 20 years? Oprah had enough sense to leave the church, but Obama did not? How does one defend that? How does one explain that?"

It's simple, really. Obama, who was raised by a white mother and grandparents was examining his black heritage when he joined Wright's church. There were enough good things happening there - like HIV/AIDS ministry, keeping kids off of the streets, etc. to attract him and keep him coming back. Wright was also a father figure to a boy raised by a single mother. You don't leave your family when they say something really whacked. Well, most people don't. You just roll your eyes and ignore their ravings. What was he supposed to do - stand up in the middle of the sermon and should out "you're wrong"? I'd like to see someone try that in a "white" church! Clearly, what good he got out of the church and his relationship with Rev. Wright outweighed the bad.

Unfortunately, it sounds more like Rev. Wright is in love with the sound of his own voice. Instead of shutting up and supporting his parishioner, he's using this to boost his own popularity. Someone, not Obama, need to take him aside and tell him to "stop helping."

EXCELLENT OBSERVATIONS MR MARK

Rachel said:

"I'd like to ask why there is such a thing as a 'Black Church' anyhow!?"

Maybe Rachel should read a history book. White people kidnapped black people from Africa into slavery in America. I do not know the particulars about how black people came to Christianity during the 246 years of enslavement from 1629 to 1865, but I bet it had something to do with that.

I am not necesssarily blaming white people alive today for the things that our ancestors did; but the things that they did have caused and born all of the institutions that exist and operate today. Just reading a few books would help to understand these things.

Anonymous the Spiderman2 aka Canyon Shearer, Bible Thumper, Fortune Teller and Severely Brainwashed in that Old Time Religion,

Fools are those who have read only the bible. God cannot be proud of such lazy creations!!!!

And what "voodooer of the hoodoo" blessed you with such stupidity in the field of fortune telling and interpretations of said stupidity???

The reality of it all is that the "pew sitters" and "bowers" are coming to grips with the flaws in their religions and in ten years the religions of today will be unrecognizable or extinct as the "pretty and ugly wingie flying thingies" are finally buried in the piles of utter stupidity.

this is the beauty of a free press; they give you
enough rope (press space) until the public finally
realizes how ridiculous an egotist sounds. Wright
and all others who can somehow claim an attachment
to OBAMA, no matter how obscure or tenuous, let them
come forward now as opposed to later so the vetting
process can be as challenging as possible. Let the
fire be hot to forge a stronger steel.

I think that Wright is holding Obama accountable to a higher calling: If you are for REAL change, then mean it. Don't just walk the fine edge of pandering to those whom you have to (politician) but honor your statements for change, like Wright has called for (pastor). The media press are missing the point entirely. Wright's statements have nothing to do with hurting Obama, they are holding his feet to the fire for that change. Wright doesn't care what the press or opinion-makers think, he's keeping Obama to his mandate. A very smart guy.

Being one of the hottest topics in the news this weekend and the previous weeks, I think the pastor and his past sermon(s) are overrated. The media made a point of attacking his personal opinions for the sole reason that it was controversial to their own. Wanting God in his life and others' lives was his mission. The sermon may have been received in the wrong manor, in which case the media is to blame, forcing all the wrong opinions amongst the public.

To quote Mr. Wright, "I offered words of hope. I offered reconciliation. I offered restoration in that sermon, but nobody heard that sermon. They just heard this little sound bite of a sermon."

The tone of his voice has made a great impact upon those who listened only to bits and pieces of his sermon. He was extremely enthusiastic about his very opinionated sermon, leading his body and voice to be raised with excitement. The sound bites were only taken of parts that seemed controversial, not the inspiration and time that he put into the sermon to try to touch people. His words were twisted about him.

Thank you.

I heard sally quinn on Imus. I believe "do onto others..." was originally stated by King Solomon.

If Barack Obama is being judged by his relationshiop with REv. Wright, are we to assume that given the close relationship that Hillary Clinton has with Bill, that should she become President, then it is quite likely that she too will have a Marvin lewinsky, a blue suit and possible impeachment of her actions.

This morning I had the opportunity to listen to Sally Quinn on Imus, after dropping off my son to school a very expensive private school where everyttime he leaves the car I want to remind my little black child that he s fortunate because if this had been any other time in America/s history he would not be able to go to such a school even if we could have afforded it based on his color, sadly, I realized the fact that I have this feeling to tell him he is lucky in 2008, shows how far we have not come.

Sally Quinn's response to the Rev. Wrights, mindset and the Black Church was right on, I broke down in my car and could not stop crying I cried for the little girl who was allways on the outs because I was darker skinned, I cried for young woman at nineteen who was told for the first time in her life that she was beautiful coming off a bus at Madison avenue and 68th street one very humid tuesday afternoon in 1976, that she was beautiful by a white man, how ironic that this could happen to me that my own people could not see my beauty. I cried because I know that in 2008, athere are little black girls out there who have never been told just how beautiful they are because we still judge out own on the basis of color, hair and nostril size and that we as a people are still mired in the abuses and effects of slavery, it is everywhere, everytime a black athlete chooses a lighter skinned woman, we see it everytime a young black woman passes you with hair that does not belong to her, we see it when black children chooses lighter skinned dolls over the darker ones we see it in our families when the dark skinned relative is treated less than favorably we see it when black children at play will not play with their own because he or she may be darker=complexioned it happens (it happened to my child) fortunately, she has a mother who knew the right things to say to her and how to build her self= esteem. While I may not agree with REv. Wright's methods everything he says bear truth, sure there a few of us who feel that because we may now drive a lexus and live in a certain neighborhood, a and make a few dollars more that we no longer belong to the race of people scorned and denied think again everytime you listen to Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and their other cronies, if Barack Obama, with his ivy league education, professional wife, 2 kids, fancy neighborhood and a white mother cannot make it then you have not. That is why the Black Church responsibility of reminding us from where we came is so dnecessay and vitally important to the our community.

I'd like to ask why there is such a thing as a 'Black Church' anyhow!? The Church is the Body of Christ and involves all of Christ's followers, whether they be white, black, oriental, hispanic.....whatever the case may be. I have never understood 'barriers' such as ethnic/nationality 'churches' and/or this 'black' entity. It certainly creates disunity among Christians. We're all called to be 'one'..........not split by so MANY different criteria (race, culture, denomination...). We should not, as Christians, be distracted and fooled by such worldly things as 'nationalistic pride or racial pride/prejudice. Christianity is beyond that. Jesus called us to unity. He loves all of us, regardless of our skin color.

Nice picture Sally...it should be bigger.

CONCERNED THE CHRISTIAN NOW LIBERATED:

You have finally revealed yourself: you are an anti-theist. Why did you pretend to be a religious scholar who is interested in religious reform?

IF ... IF ... we gotta choose a president on accounta WITCH doctors??

I choose Obama's witch doctor-- we done HAD the other ones.

Considering the flaws, errors, stench and muck aka the "fems" of all religions, Haynes, Wright, their fellow preachers and also priests, imams, clerics and rabbis will be receiving their pink slips soon thereby there will be no more "pulpitfying" from these "mumbo jumboers" and we can get on with the political debate free at last from religion.

youtube.com/watch?v=F-HuSt6wwWc

It's impossible for the looney right wing to distance itself from its America-hating Gawd.

After all, everything lousy that happens to America is America's fault. And Gawd hates us for it.

So sayeth the swollen white fundie witch doctors. Want quotes?

No, ... do ya actually WANT quotes from these America-hating pigs? Really?

I'll SWAMP ya with'em. I'll BURY ya with'em.

C'mon. BEG for it.

I wish I understood why he needs to talk about his imaginary super best friend so much. It's creepy.

AKafir said:

okay, Johnny
_____

Has McSame disavowed Richard Quinn yet? Or would he appear weak to typical RWers, disavowing a white supremacist?

okay, Johnny. The NC vote is only 7 days away. That should start telling the most ardent Obama acolytes, which way the people at large are voting. Obama is ahead by about 15 points in NC. The black voters are 40% of the democratic voters there. That should give him a base of 36 to 38% of the vote cast. So see how far above the 50% mark he gets. It was 65-35 race couple of days ago, because he was splitting the white vote. If he drops below 55% that will be an unambiguous data that the whitys have fled.

Johnny,
Your statement answers itself. All you can say is Cheney McSame? Cheney McSame bleeds Red White and Blue by Comparison to Obama. If it comes down to Obama versus Cheney McSame, Many including myself will hold our noses and pull the lever of Cheney McSame rather than hand the White house to some one with a possibly utterly deficient judgment.

Akafir sez:

"Obama cannot win the general election."
_____

And John Cheney McSame, with his white-supremacist buddies -- RICHARD QUINN -- can.

Tell us HOW.

It is not Wright that is the issue. It is Obama and his judgment. He cannot say Wright is completely wrong for what it says about Obama's judgment. He cannot say that Wright is right for then Martin Luther King was wrong and Farrakan is right. 20 years of attending that church, writing that Wright was his spiritual guide, taking the title of his book Audacity of Hope from Wright's sermon, etc. etc. The only thing he can do is get up there and explain that What Wright said can be understood and is not hating America and not hating Whitys, and asians, and hispanics, and indians, and japanese, etc. And he opens the can of worms of Black liberation theology that basically says God of the Whites is evil.

What does it say about Obama, and that is why Obama cannot win now. If Obama loses the white vote in North Carolina, he is unelectable, and the democrats will have to decide whether they want to have a race conversation now or after the November election. Obama cannot win the general election.

What's truly funny about this is the looney religious right wing's attempt to portray Wright as an "America-hater."

THIS, after their fat white witch doctors' insistence that the right-wing white Gawd HATES America.

Natural disasters? Gawd hates America. Illness? Gawd hates America. Terr'ist attacks? Gawd hates America. ANYTHING bad? Gawd hates America.

Translation: I speak for Gawd, chumps. Gawd hates America. So do I. So should you.

Response? Fark you and the idiot's horse you rode in on, you creep.

Bro. Wright can preach the socks off and the sin out of any believer who listens with a tender heart and an open (and biblically formed and informed) mind. Not even God can get through to a heart and mind that are hardened toward God. God set before this Jeremiah a "teachable moment" for this nation, and God would not be pleased with this Jeremiah if he failed to preach God's truth at this moment, as God would not have been pleased if his namesake had run from God's call to him. That Jeremiah ended up persecuted and imprisoned for speaking truth to power, but God lifted him up and preserved him. God will do so for Jeremiah Wright, too.

Prudence Candlelight,

If you had seen the Bill Moyer's interview you would have seen the GodDamn America and his reason behind it.

When you have sermons any where from 6 to 12 years apart looped to make a statement, that statement negative, I would imagine that there is something behind it that was not to get a quick over view of Black theology.

Dirt is being played and mud thrown...personally I look at the Queen Bee.

terra

The real question for the country is what it says about Obama's judgment to belong for 20 years to a church that had it central tenet according to its own website an unapologetic embrace of Black Theology (really black supremacy).

The liberal can try to protect and cocoon Obama from the questioning and criticism, but the chances that the Americans at large will hand someone the presidency at a time when we are at war who has shown an incredibly bad judgment are practically nil. How can anyone feel at ease thinking that this man would be sitting dealing with Hamas, Ahmedinejad, or any of the other tyrants we are going to have to deal with over the coming years.

The only thing that matters is why did Obama sit through that church for 20 years? Oprah had enough sense to leave the church, but Obama did not? How does one defend that? How does one explain that?

Wright is an idiot, and his rhetoric exemplifies why some white people will be suspicious of Obama's attempt to run a post-racism race: as long as things are going well for a black man, it's due to his hard work and perseverence, good judgment blah blah blah and as soon as he does something stupid and gets called to account for it, he's up against a racist agenda. How conveeeeenient.

Spiderman2 said:
I don't usually comment on blacks since God intended them to live apart from the rest of humanity after the fall of Babel, .....

need there be anything more said? G-d help us!

Dear Daniel -

If Rev Wright's comments are hurting Obama's campaign, it certainly isn't due to anything that Rev Wright or Sen Obama have said or done.

No, I'm afraid you need look no further than to Southerner's "blame the victim" post that sits directly beneath your own to get an idea of who's making trouble for Sen Obama. It's those forces in this country who know how to whip up a frenzy of bigotry against just about anybody, and then to lay the blame for the frenzy at the feet of the person victimized.

Soon, the media will be saying "Obama brought it on himself," the same way everybody who challenges the status quo seems to bring it on themselves. It could be something as ridiculous as the "Dean scream," where a hot feed from a microphone was used to portray a presidential candidate as an absolute nut case screaming at the top of his lungs, even though the effect in the room was that almost no one could hear Gov Dean over the noise. At other times, it's the ability to take an important issue and reduce it to he said/she said status with a net gain of zero and the removal of the issue from serious debate.

One thing is certain - we haven't seen the last of these tactics.

When will the MSM (including, of course, the WaPo and Newsweek) spotlight McCain's close ties with white supremacist Richard Quinn?

My guess: never. What happens between us white guys stays between us white guys.

Wright is just another magical thinker, of course, but he's a black magical thinker -- caught up in the corporate media machine.

I know very little about the Reverend Wright. What I do know is that this on faith question has elicited some pretty articulate and intelligent remarks. I wish all on faith questions elicited such remarks. About the effect Wright is having on Obama, I would describe it as hurtful--especially because Wright seems to want to prolong the issue. He should have just explained that his words come out of the frustration of the African American experience and have left it at that. But no, he seems to want to talk and talk about it. Again, I know very little about Wright. But I believe he is hurting Obama's campaign.

Obama started going to Wright’s church when he was in his 20’s. He said he respected the man because he gave black people in the ghetto tough love. Maybe Wright was what Obama needed in his 20’s, I doubt it is today.

Rev. Wright is a left-over, he remembers the days of segregation when blacks couldn’t voice their anger at being put down. I understand his attitude. But I think it’s outdated.

Once, all dark skinned Negroes in this country were treated with contempt. I remember the days myself, I’m not young anymore. But times are different. People like Clarance Thomas got an education because a few were given preferential treatment back then, now it’s encouraged that all blacks go to college. Yet many don’t who could, not because they can’t, because they are contemptuous of anything that seems like white society’s standards.

Black society has been evolving from the society of The Color Purple to the society of Clarance Thomas & Condi Rice and Barak Obama. But it is also the society of drug dealing, prostitution, single-parent families, black men averaging 27 different sexual partners in a lifetime (CDC stats), high school dropouts. I don’t see a black society that has improved, I see a deteriorating society, a self-destructive society going downhill while a few dark-skinned people of African descent like Rice & Thomas & Obama rise above the rest.

Black society as a whole is deteriorating. Wright & people in his genre try to blame all that on white people. I disagree. Black people who fail are refusing to take responsibility for their own behavior. The hallmark of an adult is to be responsible. There is a lack of responsibility in black society. That is the problem. It’s childish behavior.

Black society won’t get any better until people like Wright stop blaming white people for everything. Wright is right that a lot of what happens to us is what we bring on our own selves. Now he just has to apply that lesson to his own people.

CCNL writes:

"On one side you have a bi-ch who is a lawyer and married to a lawyer opposing a lawyer who is married to a bi-ch who is also a lawyer.

On the other side you have a true war hero who is married to a beautiful woman with a huge chest who owns a beer distributorship."

And then we have CCNL, the bi-ch without whose wise pronouncements, all would be lost.

The black reverend hath spoken, and On Faith's largely white-bread panelists have responded, in most cases, telling the black man what he SHOULD have said, or how he should have said what he said differently.

In an ironic twist, they make Rev Wright's point for him.

Isn't there something in the Bible about removing the log from your own eye first?

Why would Rev. Wright say those things, that were hateful and hurtful to so many of us? As a white American, I hope that I am not damned, like he says. I was shocked to hear that kind of talk in a church. I am used to hearing a quiet, measured voice from the pulpit. Then I started thinking some pretty awkward thoughts. About what it means to be a Christian. Thoughts about responsibility, and my life of comfort.

We go to church and expect to be comfortable. Think of the absurdity! We say that we worship a God who demands that we meet his criteria, again and again, and yet we everyday fall short all the time. Often, when we don't follow his laws, we do it on purpose! We know what's right, and we still don't do it. That should make us uncomfortable in the pew already!

It gets worse from there! We go to church and not only do we hear again the things we *should* be doing, we hear that God became one of us, he lived with us, ate and drank with us, laughed and cried with us, and most importantly loved us. All the while, he was showing us how we should live-- with forgiveness, with thanksgiving, with hope, with faith, most importantly, with love for God and for each other.

Well, this isn't to be allowed at all. We can't be reminded all the time how we are treating each other so badly, destroying and diminishing ourselves at every chance, and then crying that we aren't given every advantage and favored wherever possible. So that man was executed. He may not have been a revolutionary, but you know, he was quite unsettling, and things being as they are, we're going to take security and our own way of living. Done, right? Those words he said were nice and all, but you know, we can't actually be expected to *do* what he said. That's not how life is, we know that.

Then the most uncomfortable thing. We go to church, we hear the laws that we break every day, we hear about the man who said we needed love above everything else, and that he loved us more than we knew, and that he died. Death is the ultimate scary thing to us, the bridge too far. After that, nothing. The most unsettling thing about this is that he came back across that bridge, and said, "I told you, I love you. You can't change that, no matter what you think you can do to me. My words are true, and you know they are, you feel it inside you. You were made to feel that truth, all the way down to your toes. Now love each other in this same way."

Ever notice how Christmas is the biggest holiday on the calendar? Easter is sort of shoe-horned in there. Anyone can deal with a baby being born. It happens all the time. We were all born, we've seen siblings and cousins and nephews and nieces and sons and daughters born. We all die, too. None of us come back. It's hard to make candy and presents for a holiday about someone dying and coming back from death. It makes people really, really uncomfortable. You have to listen when something like that happens, right?

That's my point. God got our attention, because he did something so huge it couldn't be ignored. And what is he telling us? His message is: I created the world to be right. I created you to be right. I created you to love, but to do that, you had to be able to choose love. Choosing is dangerous, because you can always choose wrong. Some of you chose wrong, and the world has followed you. I hope you choose right. If you choose love, you can start making this world right. Sometimes you're going to have to tell people things they don't want to hear. People don't want to be uncomfortable. Just remember, you can tell people what they want to hear and go back to living like you always did, or you can tell them the truth about the world and start changing it. Choose.

I'm not saying what Rev. Wright said was right or wrong. I can't start to understand the dehumanization black people in America have been subject to, much less how they feel about it now. I'm saying that we should be less scandalized to hear that kind of thing coming from a pulpit. How can we claim that our delicate sensibilities are shattered when children in this city-- *the capital of the free world!*-- are going to bed without food? To say nothing about children in other countries. This is just one of the thousands of things we should be more shocked about than what Wright said.

We need to remember that Sunday is not the day of comfort and relaxation for Christians. It's the day to remember, and be reminded (maybe in jolting terms), that we have a serious responsibility. Time is running out, wake up!

Jeremiah Wright's rhetorical skill and oratorical style would be much more impressive to me if he didn't have "Reverend" in front of his name and if he didn't do most of his public speaking in churches. The fact that he does have "Rev." in front of his name pretty instantly destroys any credibility that the content of his sermons and speeches might otherwise have for me. I really have to look hard and deeply in his sermons to see if he's gotten anything right (Sometimes he does, as much through pure chance or coincidence as from actually reasoning through a problem and dealing with evidence).

Rev. Wright may be a source of comfort and galvanizing inspiration to his congregation (past or future), but what he has practiced is, from my standpoint, a racket, pure and simple. He's just milked that racket for less money than, say, Creflo Dollar.

Wright believes that he is devoted to doing good but his new mansion reveals that he has done well spreading the never forget, never-forgive philosophy he preaches. No one alive remembers slavery nor has anyone alive ever experienced it, unless of course, he refers to the islamic world where slavery still exists, eg Darfur. For a grown man to preach his gospel of hate against whites because of what their ancestors did to his ancestors is truly bizarre. I am the son of immigrants to the US as millions of Americans are and the antics of such men as Wright are less than amusing. What good does it do black youth to be told year after year that their fate was decided before 1865 by whites who held their ancestors as slaves. That eliminates Colin Powell and Barack Obama. Think how much worse life could have treated Obama. His black father might have stayed in his life and taken the child to Kenya to live. Most black Americans, descendants of slaves, live better here than Africans whose ancestors never left Africa- count your blessings.

SHUT THIS GUY UP! Shut Rev. Wright up not because what he says is false or inflamatory, but because the media is too simple minded to cover this man, and the campaign of Sen. Obama in a way that is not sensationalized or broken into more pernicious sound bites.

Sen. Obama still has some explaining to do when it comes to his associations with the Rev., but in no way should Sen. Obama be responsible for everything that is coming out of the Rev.'s mouth, certainly not now! If that's the case, the media should be jumping all over Hillary for Bill Clinton; that guy won't shut up. The way I see HRC is going to be every night with a paid lobbyist, how come the media isn't covering that?

Already today the headlines from Rev. Wright's speech and Q&A at the Press Club are anything but flattering. Granted theReverend's huburis got the better of him, and he didn't help his case, but the simplistic news headlines only help to enflame a voting electorate.

Maybe the national media should take the words of Edward R. Murrow to heart and use the power of the pen and the electronic media to education the masses.

This country is at a tipping pointing of being able to discuss race & race relations in a meaningful way. A way that moves this country forward. A dialog that isn't based on fear, or sterotypes or ultra-political correctness.

Sen. Obama didn't answer all the questions and concerns people have about him when he gave his speech shortly after Rev. Wright's "soundbites" were aired, but it was probably the single most courageous political act of leadership in a genernation. Lately, the only politcal courage we as a country have been witness to is when a politician "acknowledges behavior that is contrary to their public responsibilities".

How hard would it be for the Post or any other national paper to take the lead and initiate a dialog on race? Simply partner with one of the networks, and take the show on the road.

Why is it that all the vitures that are imparted to us in school; civility, fairness, friendship, compassion, justice, equality, etc. are left at the school door?

The media can't sit back and simply say they are covering the car crash anymore. Especially, when the know the car wasn't safe to begin with.

Help move this country forward. Stop covering Rev. Wright.

first, i reject your assertion that Jeremiah Wright's sermons continue to be an issue in the presidential campaign!

this statement is based on your personal construction and characterization of this eloquent and supreme bible scholar and proponent of liberation theology! obviously, those outside the african-american experience cannot fully grasp nor understand his powerful message.

the problem for Obama is that he has held himself out to the american public in this presidential campaign as a "bargainer" in the words of an eminent social scientist; unfortunately for him, his trusted pastor, the master preacher, Jeremiah Wright, is quite the opposite; the pastor answers to a different call and he has a different audience; in this, he is clearly the "challenger" as defined by this social scientist!

a bargainer and challenger are at once diametrically opposed to each other! the pastor by definition can help or save Obama. this is Obama's burden! he will have to confront and reconcile with the preachings of the paster!

question: how can one reconcile the unreconcilable?

Mofi alKamudi
Washington, DC

a very intelligent person who knows exactly what he is talking about. i suspect that 99.9% of the news people who keep knocking him have no idea how someone other then themselves think. a lot of people willl be eating sacks of crow meat and it won't be rev. wright.

We are making nothing from nothing. That shows how low we Americans have gone. We have nothing better to do then to pick what a pastor has said and what he has not said. This shows the world that we are very ignorant people, very stupid people. If we are a democracy then the people regardless of what, must have their voices heard. What matters most is what the candidate says,not what the others have said. Just look at the mammy, J. McCAIN. HE IS HALF ALIVE AND HALF DEAD.HE HAS NEVER SAID ANY THING CONSTRUCTIVE YET, NOT A SINGLE WORD. HE IS TALKING ABOUT THIS ABOUT THAT, BUT HE IS SAYING NOTHING.
If we tell people you can not go here, you can not go there, that pastor is no good, this one is even worse, then we might as well stay home and pray to the walls.
I being born in Europe have never seen so much garbage in Americans politics then in the last two years . What on earth is wrong with our political system today. Where is the beef, not the bones.
No matter who wins from the democratic side, it is already a done deal, that the new president of the United States is going to be the Mummy called
John Mccain. He will win by stealing the elections, remember neck and neck but his neck will be juts a little longer then Mr. Obamas.
It is electronics you dummies, the electronic machines that will decide the fate of the elections, not the candidates. Candidates are chosen just to play with the peoples will,machines decide and those that control the machine win the elections . Where is the real American democracy these days . Gone with the wind.

i strongly agree with pat. you only have to read about james cone to see where rev. wright is coming from. he preaches the black theology written by cone. there is no one person that could set through this "preaching" for 20 yrs. and not know what the rev. is expounding. as the saying goes, "you can tell who a person is by the ones he hangs around with." wright is filled with hatred and doesn't mind talking about it. i am a avid church goer and an avid christian who goes to a racially mixed small church. i know exactly what my preachers sermon will be....from the BIBLE. no politics, no racism, no fanaticism, just the LORD, that is what a minister is required by GOD to do...

i strongly agree with pat. you only have to read about james cone to see where rev. wright is coming from. he preaches the black theology written by cone. there is no one person that could set through this "preaching" for 20 yrs. and not know what the rev. is expounding. as the saying goes, "you can tell who a person is by the ones he hangs around with." wright is filled with hatred and doesn't mind talking about it. i am a avid church goer and an avid christian who goes to a racially mixed small church. i know exactly what my preachers sermon will be....from the BIBLE. no politics, no racism, no fanaticism, just the LORD, that is what a minister is required by GOD to do...

Rev. Wright tells his congregation, "Forsake your eyes and you shall SEE! Confound your mind and you shall KNOW! Relinquish your wealth and you shall PROSPER! Sacrifice your life and you shall LIVE!"

On social issues I commend him, but let's not forget - he's a cleric, and his primary purpose is to instill ignorance and superstition in his congregation. That's the elephant in the room that no one will talk about.

All these panelists give Obama and Wright way too much credit. Obama is either a lying racist who agrees with Wright, or he's a coward and a hypocrite who doesn't walk his own much-vaunted talk. Wright is a vile racist who is loving every second of all this attention and seems not to realize, or perhaps not care, that he is hurting Obama with every syllable. I am white and do not feel the least bit guilty about it. And I will not accept a president who supports that kind of vitriol.

Apparently, the media has decided that every b'cast must lead with some religious-angled story.

My proof? What has been front-and-center for the past month?

* The Pope's Trip

* Polygamists in Texas

* Rev Wright's remarks

* Tibetan monks oppressed by China

In the meanwhile, the Iraq fiasco goes largely uncovered.

I think the only people that will really care about what Mr Wright has to say, will be:

1. Rush Limbaugh
2. Sean Hannity
3. Hillary Clinton
4. Media lusting to fill in air time.

The first two will scream bloody murder about the wright comments using the tried and true tactic of scaring the bejueezuz out of white americans. Knowing their party stands a snowball's chance in November and also knowing how the republican agenda has stuck it to the average working stiff, they really have little choice as far as what they can talk about.

Hillary will unfortunately act as despicably as number one and two will, since she is in the fight of her professional life. I dissaprove of the tactic if she does, which will turn me from a primary voter for Hillary to a general election voter for Obama.

The media? the media will do the nation a diservice and make a mountain out of a mole hill if it will fill airtime.

I'm not black, but see truth in what Wright has said. I think most people without an agenda will see the same: a man who says it like it is.

To understand Black Liberation theology is to understand the Rev Wright. Here is an interesting quote from James Cone one of Black Liberation theology's leading thinkers. Cone defines the theology as thus:
"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love."
A Black Theology of Liberation By James H. Cone 1990 ISBN-10: 0883446855 Page 27

This is not theology, this is Marxism, class warfare.

Jeremiah Wright's sermons continue to be an issue in the presidential campaign. Why?

because unimaginative journalists find it easier to sensationalize than to think of compelling questions.

What do you think of his preaching style?

i think he's a powerful and inpressive preacher who's been leading his flock for 4 decades.

but i'm not a part of his congregation- so it really really doesnt matter what i think at all-

What do you wish you understood better about it?
????????????
what?
kind
of
ridiculous question is that?

I found him quite surprising. His speaking voice is soft, he is charismatic, and presents well. Whatever is the problem with everyone? I am dispairing of Americans who jump so quickly on rumors and feed them continuously.

Jeremiah Wright is not about equality or the black view. He represents liberal blacks who hate whites and American. It's not about religion. He's running a political campaign, for himself.

I have an alternative solution to wright/obama/clinton debacle. Obama & Wright move themselves & families to Iran or Iraq. I'm sure they'd be welcomed w/open arms & then we could read what they both honestly believe. Clinton would fit in w/China, both Clintons appear to very comfortable w/communism & they really like the monies the Chinese deposit in their bank/campaign accts.
With research I've done & some very interesting posts(by both conservative & libs)both of these candidates are not only elitists they are prejudiced by each others' race. One thing is for sure, both can look anyone square in the eye & lie about any & all subjects. Maybe that is really what the newly registered voters wan. I sure understand the old saying"Be careful what you wish for". If they both respected America for what the founding fathers' started with, neither would be on the ticket. Hypocrites, both.

I believe we have to remember that Rev. Wright is also a politician. He also has a constituency and has to speak with the voice of that group or he would not retain his position. His group is obviously demanding that he speak strongly to their values and, I believe, those values are ones that the most moral of Americans would approve, even if provocative. I believe Obama shares those views, even if he disapproves of the rhetoric. Unfortunately, the majority of Americans may be prejudiced against Obama because they are not sufficiently moral.

Pat

Boring, boring, boring, indeed. We do not need Wright to discuss racism.

Racism in religion, agnosticism, atheism, Pat, that I could see.

And, racism cuts all ways along the divide.

The media is going to make this man rich. He will not lose the support of the Black Church which has and will continue to sustain him. It is too bad that we live in a country of followers, because a leader would recognize the divide and conquer tactics that are being used to tear down a man who speaks a truth that those that are guilty or do not like to be reminded of their prejudices, do not want to hear.

The media is going to make this man rich. He will not lose the support of the Black Church which has and will continue to sustain him. It is too bad that we live in a country of followers, because a leader would recognize the divide and conquer tactics that are being used to tear down a man who speaks a truth that those that are guilty or do not like to be reminded of their prejudices, do not want to hear.

The media is going to make this man rich. He will not lose the support of the Black Church which has and will continue to sustain him. It is too bad that we live in a country of followers, because a leader would recognize the divide and conquer tactics that are being used to tear down a man who speaks a truth that those that are guilty or do not like to be reminded of their prejudices, do not want to hear.

B O R I N G

Enough, please, enough. Time to move on.

Religion does not domestic and international policy make, not entirely, in this country.

Leave Obama and his church affiliations alone, and let's, please, give both a well-deserved rest.

Religion, atheism, agnosticism are the supposed topics of this blog. How about giving them a try, for once?

All the critics comments on Rev. Wright's remarks boil down the time-honored position of White America not truly wanting Black American to sit at the table as equals. Wonder Why? I think it might have something to do with what the Latin phrase "ante tubam trepidat" suggests; someone who becomes frightened before a battle begins. We as whites are afraid of being equal with others and that runs counter to our culture where it has been preached time and again that Americans are the most powerful and "unequaled" in the world. Because of our historical past, this theme resonates as though there is ownership on the part of White America. I am afraid that this polical election season is nothing but a mockery of what many in this country have believed to be racial harmony. I hope that by the time these primary and general elections are completed black and white America will not be further divided and we can look upon the events of these past few weeks as stepping stones in continuing a dialogue that needs to be held.

I guess America is shocked to hear the perspective of an African American male, who is also a minister, who also has a PhD in Religion and Social Change, and who is speaking of his experiences and the experiences of the Black community in general in this country. White Americans need to make an effort to understand what it is like to be Black in America. To become informed about what Black America thinks about life in America. To try to deny, and worse to silence the voice of Reverand Wright and others like him, because you don't like what he says is unacceptable to me. African Americans, immigrants and others are forced to learn about the majority culture in this country. It is past time for the majority culture to get off their complacent behinds and learn about others.

For some reason, the media think that just because you hear something (i.e. Wright's speeches) for a while, you are expected to put forth the actions that those speeches command you to put forth.

Ergo, Obama listened to Wright for 24 years he is expected to act light Wright says he should act. This negating all Obama's intelligence, schooling, other friends, family members etc.

People talk about a "spiritual advisor" what the heck is that? And what the heck does it have to do with how a person, as brilliant and intelligent, as Obama is acts in their daily life.

(The spiritual advisors of Tom DeLay, Enron, and Rick Santorum sure had no effect on those guys and corporations actions.)

I love his preaching style, because he challenges you to think in a different way about society, heaven, and yourself. Not that you HAVE to agree and do what he says, but Wright gets the point across with vigor and style. (like his whole sermon about blacks in modern day society, yeah he's right about them bring 2nd class citizens, with blacks in jail more than anyone else, with their incomes lower, and with more one parent families, yeah, there is the theory -- there are not second class souls in Heaven, and under the constitution. But there sure as hell are blacks as second class souls here on earth. And you can see that by the lack of blacks as role models on the evening news (no black newscasters), in corporations (very few black CEOs), in political office (how many black Governors, Senators, Vice Presidents and Presidents -- Harding aside -- have we had?) But 1 in 5 black men have been in prison. Does not say much for our record as a country, does it.

And Wright says these things so that at least one can ponder them over. (I watched WF Buckley for years as a kid and I learned not necessarily what to think but how to construct arguments, and went to church for years and have rejected everything they had to say. I also say Caesar Chavez several times, and while I appreciated and to agree with what he had to say, I thought his presentations were rather passé` in style.) And you are not required to agree.

I saw Wright on Bill Moyers program, Wright is well educated (Harvard Divinity School) and has done much to bring a small church up to the point where it is a major contributor to the community. If I had lots of money like Obama, I would contribute to it too, despite what the preacher says. Perhaps I wish I could sit down with him and ask what the Hellfire and Damnation style of preaching in the context of politics brings to the church? It is just because it's dramatic, lets loose passion in the audience so they can change their way of thinking, or is it just theatre?

I'd also like to discuss with him comparative theology, but that's outside the scope of this missive.

So that's for the question. It made me think. Which I like.

XXXXXX

Kurt

PS. Also posted a Keats anti-clerical poem and another posted ancient Chinese poetry (no organized religion)

Moyer's interview of Wright revealed Wright to be 'thoughtful'; but what,exactly, is meaning of 'god damn America'? and, of what value was it?

Wright, claims to be a pastor rather than a politician. Make no mistake; Wright is a politician in the Chicago tradition.

He is using Obama to achieve '15 minutes of fame'.

Thank you for reading,
Prudence

love the man , tells truth

Black churches, white churches.

Methodists, Lutherans.

Protestant, Catholic.

Muslim, Christian.

I'd say the prospects for religious-based reconciliation and agreement on the important issues in life haven't a prayer.

With divisions like these among "the faithful," who needs outside-the-flock adversaries?

Better to chuck the whole superstitious lot and get down to REAL solutions for a REAL world.

I think Mr. Wright is phenomenal. I wish there were more honest people like him

Never having been a member of his congregation, I confine my focus to poetry, which, I now believe should be a "talking point" in every political campaign.

For those of the poetic persuasion, click on "the panel," and go to Susan Jacoby's last thread. And thanks to all who posted more poems there.

Perspective, do you know Yeats's "Lapis Lazuli"? I posted it. Note the influence.

Farnaz