Readers’ Responses to Our Question (11)

Oh there "Reality Challenged" and Obfuscating Jihadist,

All that commentary and still you cannot come to grips with the "pretty, wingie, talking, flying, fictional thingies and their ugly counterparts as being the foundation of Islam for you know that Islam crumbles without them. Ten years and counting to the final crash!!!

And Gabriel and his cohort on the side of the Sunnis or the Shiites?? You again failed to assign them to the "who is right side".

And being the "official" defender of Islam, there are the other flaws, errors, muck and stench of Islam you never address.

To wit:

Belief that an hallucinating, greed/lust driven, illiterate Arab actually talked to the "pretty Gabriel" in the hot "Gabe" cave and therein received the warmongering and anti-female words and resultant laws now listed in the koran (spell checked) with said words being used by the likes of OBL and his global network to terrorize all earthly non-believers.

That Islam is perfect and the koran inherently condones no sin even though the 24/7, 800 year-old blood feud between Sunnis and Shiites gives significant credence that greed, hate, suicides, assassinations, maiming, and murder are condoned by the koran. Male Islamics to include imams and clerics having multiple wives also gives significant credence to the sins of rape, adultery, lust and polygamy. The condoned treatment of these wives gives credence that the koran allows the sins of hatred, anger and greed.

And then there is the matter of what you know about Christianity. Somehow you have been brainwashed in the dark age, orthodox form of Christianity. The Christianity based on reality and history is summarized once again below:

Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/ simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics. earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

The pope is pretty well screwed with regard to what he can do about anything. There isn't any wiggle room in the church doctrine. There will never be approval for birth control, female priests, or any "progressive" ideas. They are proscribed by God and the Church has no authority to do otherwise.

This only leaves marketing tactics, like John Paul. Repair broken relationships in public. Make commitments that can be kept, and keep them.

And finally hand over criminal priests to the authorities in their respective countries--but, perhaps, give them a choice.

Recall them back to the Vatican, and offer them this:
-public emasculation and humiliation, i.e. neutering by the knife and a life of solitary monkdom in poverty in exile.
-or extradition to their host country in chains to face charges.

Hello pussycat,

Oh, I'm sure Islam and all other religions will crumble in the next ten years as you opined somewhere else.

Appalling is it not? That I know much more on Christianity than you do on Islam and Muslims. But, no reason for you to get all riled up about that.

"Low-life Shiites" you said? Which ones? All? That's a slur.

So, what are "you" going to do to sort out the Shiite-Sunni conflicts in Iraq as "you" 'own" that country?

After all, "you" went in to "liberate" them and to bring about the "birth pangs" of a new Middle East and had it all figured out beforehand before going in. It's the demons of hubris and greed, no?

Botton line - don't look at others for solutions when the opinions and views of others were dismissed or ignored when deciding to go into Iraq regardless.

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And now, to Islam and Muslims pre-101
(Part I, Paragraph 1.1.1)

Really very simple random questions related to your posts here and then some.

* How do you spell the Muslim holy book?

* How do Muslims regard satan?

* Is there a belief or theology on "demons of the demented" in Islam?

* Is there a practice of exorcising the devil among Muslims?

* Is there a Muslim belief on "limbo"?

* Can the Muslim clergy marry?

* Is there baptism in Islam upon conversion of a non-Muslim as Muslim?

* Is the "flying chariots" from the Muslim holy book and Hadiths or from the Bhagavad Gita, or from Erich Von Danniken's "Chariots of the Gods"?

* Do Muslims believe that Moses met God in the form of a "burning bush'?

* Do Muslims believe God parted the Red Sea for the Isrealites led by Moses escaping Pharoah's troops?

* Was it a dream or a reality that the Prophet PBUH got onto a steed to go to heaven?

* Was the "Night Journey" to Jerusalem or to heaven?

* What is the difference between an ayatollah and a mufti?

* How many Hadiths are there?

* Is there more on Mary in the Bible or the Muslim holy book?

* How many Suras are there in the Muslim holy book?

* What is the difference between Hudud and Shariah?

* What is the difference between a mufti, a kadi and an imam?

* Is there a difference between what a Sunni means by imam, and the Shiite defination?

* What is a mujahid?

* Who ordered the compilation of the Muslim holy book?

* In what order is the Suras?

* Why do Muslims speak of the "Right Path" instead of the "Truth"?

* Why is theology a more important pursuit for Christian clergy than for Muslim ulema?

.....and why do you like to quote from Thomas Aquinas on God who is apparently influenced by Imam Al Ghazali who is apparently influenced by the Greek philosophers?

Theology and philosophy. Uhhhhh.......

Oh there "Reality Challenged" and Obfuscating Jihadist,

One more time:

Of course you believe in "pretty, wingie, talking, flying, fictional thingies and their ugly counterparts. Islam crumbles without them. And is Gabriel and his cohort on the side of the Sunnis or the Shiites?? Being a good Sunni, we are sure you have relegated the "demons of the demented" to the low-life Shiites. Having a problem addressing this fundamental issue are we???

And that would include the angel/demon distribution to all your said diverse groups of full or part time terrorists.

Again, strange that you know so much about Christianity but know so little about Islam and the distribution of its major elements!!!

Apparently you must meet Gabriel on your flights through the heavenly clouds over Malaysia and the other Islamic countries. See any flying chariots with Mohammed directing the flying camels?

Which brings us again to the major religious and global issue of the last ten years, the continuing 800 year blood feud between said your Sunnis and the infidel Shiites. And your solution to this global scourge is?????

And OBL's global terror network vitiates your comment, "Muslims are very diversified, very decentralised and do not acknowledge nor recognise any global central authority, figurehead, or leader on Islam. It is country by country, group by group."

Concerned the Christian Now Liberated,

Pussycat!

"We" again? Who is "we"?

"We" as Queen Victoria likes to call herself?

Or "we" as in a bunch of students too lazy to look up on their own where Sunnis and Shiites are? Or to know who comprise Fatah and Hamas? Or that the Philippines is a Catholic country with a Sunni Muslim minority etc?

You seem to care more about what that Wahhabi Saudi cleric Abdullah Jabrain, said than Muslims outside of Iraq and Saudi Arabia.

Never heard of Abdullah Jabrain until you mentioned him in On Faith. He is right up there with Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson.

It is like a cool and considered Catholic Bishop (Sistani the Shiite) having an argument with a rabid Protestant Christian fundamentalist leader (Jabrain the Wahhabi).

Your question should be (for Sunni Muslims):

- Who is the Grand Mufti of (name a country that is not their own).

- Do you comply with all the fatwas of the Grand Mufti of your country?

- If not, why?

Your question for (Shiite Muslims):

- Do you comply with the fatwas of the Grand Ayatollah of (name the country that is not their own)?

- If not, why?

Muslims are very diversified, very decentralised and do not acknowledge nor recognise any global central authority, figurehead, or leader on Islam. It is country by country, group by group.

End of Islam and Muslims Pre-101
(Part one, Paragraph 1.1)

P.S. Go to Susan Jacoby's latest essay. There is enough there from me to get you going:)

Oh there "Reality Challenged" and Obfuscating Jihadist,

Of course you believe in "pretty, wingie, talking, flying, fictional thingies and their ugly counterparts. Islam crumbles without them. And is Gabriel and his cohort on the side of the Sunnis or the Shiites??

Which brings us again to the major religious and global issue of the last ten years, the continuing 800 year blood feud between said Sunnis and Shiites. Based on recent CNN coverage, one assumes you will assign satan and his cohort to the Shiites. e.g.

From CNN:
"Al-Sistani was apparently referring to Abdullah bin Jabrain, a key member of Saudi Arabia's clerical establishment, who last month joined a chorus of other senior figures from the hardline Wahhabi school of Sunni Islam that regards Shiites as infidels.

Bin Jabrain described Shiites as "the most vicious enemy of Muslims."

Very strong words but "the obfusing one" remains silent about such rhetoric??

And this Sunni-Shiite blood feud, hatred, genocide and terror activity continues to spread globally as noted before and below:

Iraq's civil war- Sunni minority, Shiite majority, 24/7 blood letting, 4000 American soldiers dead, 90,000 Iraqi civilians, dead.

Iran, Shiite theocracy, 24/7 support of global terror.

OBL, Sunni/"Wannabee"/Saudi madman and madmen, 24/7 support of global terror.

Fill in the answers below:

Hamas, Sunni or Shiite??

Fatah, Sunni or Shiite??

Pakistan, Sunni or Shiite? Which group assassinated Bhutto??

Malaysia, nearing a Sunni theocracy???

Bahrain, Sunni or Shiite???

Phillipines, Sunni or Shiite???

Taliban, Sunni or Shiite???

Somalia, Sunni or Shiite???

We await your condemnation of said blood feud and its hate via commentaries on this blog, in your mosque, in your city and country, with your imams/clerics and on every Islamic blog on the internet. Or do you still fear the dictates of the long-dead mad Arab named Mohammed?????

Concerned The Christian Now Liberated

Don't you ever sleep, or is there more than one of you by your constant reference to "we" in refering to yourself sometimes?

CCNL : What are the flaws and errors in the contemporary religions?

Moi : Obviously, it is humans who are flawed and commit errors in everything we think, say and do, including on religions.

CCNL : ...or Would the real Moses, Jesus and Mohammed please stand up?

Moi : I've met Jewish gentlemen named Moses, Latin Americans named Jesus, and Mohammed in various spellings is one of the most common names in the world. They will all rise up and say, they are the real Moses, Jesus and Mohammed.

Besides, the Moses, Jesus and Mohammed you are referring to are not physically with us for centuries and centuries and centuries and we can only argue what they really said and do. They are what we think of them at the personal level too, not what is said by our clergy. Want to resurrect them and ask? But you don't believe in physical resurrection.

I've been on too many flying thingies and taken care of by angels when on them not to believe they don't exist.

Angels and satan will not lay waste to the foundations of Judaism, Islam, Christianity and Mormonism. Angels, as the herald of the message of God to man, and satan as the usurper of God's message and tempter of man to stray are not the primary obsession of believers.

For centuries till now, it is the nature of God, what is the message of God, why are we here and what do we think and do about that that obsessed theistic believers.

The foundations of "organised" religions, as in institutionalised structures, hierarchies and articles of creed formulated and agreed up by the clergy can easily be laid to waste by ceasing to give financial contributions to the organised religious entity.

For theistic believers, the spiritual and fundamental belief that there is a God will remain regardless of whether there is a priest, monk, rabbi or imam to say so.

Belief in God is core and natural for some. The related to activities of organised religions, including rites, are like clothes and assessories to distinguish groups on specific beliefs on God, including on nature of God, angels and demons etc and what they meant theologically then as interpreted by classical scholars/thinkers and now by contemporary scholars/thinkers. As in, for you, "original sin" is argued to be really about our "sin of origin" and you gave a new understanding on resurrection, baptism too here.

You already know that twisted, abused and abusive theological notions on God, our fellow man and our purpose here on earth needs a lot of untwisting.

Victoria, Victoria, Victoria,

The better questions are: What are the flaws and errors in the contemporary religions?

or Would the real Moses, Jesus and Mohammed please stand up?

and last but not least,

What sayest thou about "pretty wingie, talking, flying, fictional thingies" aka angels and their ugly counterparts aka satans aka devils aka "demons of the demented" and does the non-existence of these fictional characters lay waste to the foundations of Judaism, Islam, Christianity and Mormonism ???

can sally and jon really not come up with an idea for a new question?
how about celebrations of seders related? or meaning of passover and its practice?
how about some of the interesting differences and similarities between catholics (if they insist on asking about it) and the orthodox christians, who celebrate easter this coming sunday?

can sally and jon really come up with an idea for a new question?
how about celebrations of seders related? or meaning of passover and its practice?
how about some of the interesting differences and similarities between catholics (if they insist on asking about it) and the orthodox christians, who celebrate easter this coming sunday?

Benedict needs to address all the crises in the Catholic Church:

Said Crises:

The inappropriate conduct of many priests, the emotional stress on the victims and the resultant billion dollars in lawsuits.

The lack of talent in the priesthood.

The lack of Vatican response to the historic Jesus movement.

The Church's continuing cling to original sin and the resulting subsets of crazy ideas like limbo.

The denial of priesthood to women.

The restriction of priesthood to single men (unless you are former Episcopalian priests),

The continued chain of Vatican "leadership" by old European white men.

Uncontrolled birth "control".

Uncontrolled sufferings and passings to the spirit worlds.