The Archbishop of Canterbury has suggested that English law must accommodate some aspects of Islamic law, or shariah. Do you agree? Should U.S. law make room for shariah?
Posted by Sally Quinn and Jon Meacham on February 13, 2008 5:30 AM
Readers’ Responses to Our Question (368)
stephen :
Moody-
"He who breaks one "law of God"(Sharia in Arabic) does not enter the kingdom of heaven."
How old are you? If you are over 10 yrs, you should know there is no man who follows God's law to perfection (though many have died trying).
Are you telling us you are perfect in submitting to and obeying God's laws? And you have never sinned?
Dave- In the spirit of Sharia, the imams of hate who inspire, equip, and send the young naive jihadists to suicide and the death of many innocents should also have their tongues cut out.
My question is why can't mullahs who preach violence against humanity and sponsor/encourage/preach terrorism be flooged or their hands cut off? That would be one positive contribution of Sharia. After all the hate-inspiring mullahs have been flooged out of existence or their hands cuts off, we can talk about how beautiful Sharia is.
You wrote, "In return you try to put in every bodies throat that" WHO DENIES AND DISOBEYS EVERY THING JESUS SAID LOVES HIM MORE AND HE LOOK IN TO THE HEARTS AND NOT ALL THE EVIL DEEDS"."
This is not what I wrote, they are your words, are they not?
If you wish to comment about something that I wrote, that is fine, but to twist what I write and then to say that I wrote it, what would you call that?
I am not trying to tell anyone what to say or do, I am just saying that we have free will and we can either take personal responsibility for what we do or we don't, that is everyone's choice.
If it is forced on anyone than the free will that God gave to everyone is being denied to that person and that is not God's Way.
- Disobedience to God is main and major form (reason) of Evil leading to all evil deeds.
– Disobedience to Lord-God-Allah (in Arabic) means becoming partner to Satan-Devil-Evil. (So who is making partners the one who follow all the commandments or the one who break them all????)
MAKE A CHOICE NOW THOMAS WHO YOU WANT TO BE BEFORE YOU DIES?? BECAUSE AFTER THAT YOU WON'T BE GRANTED THE CHOICE OR ANY TIME FOR REPENTANCE!!
- He who breaks one "law of God"(Sharia in Arabic) does not enter the kingdom of heaven.
DOES ANY PRESENT DAY CHRISTIAN TRY TO UNDERSTAND OR REMEMBER IT??
I say and quote from Bible and Quran that "THE ONE WHO FOLLOW HIM BELIEVE MORE IN JESUS(a.s)"-
What’s so difficult in it to understand??
You don't believe in Qu'ran, you don't believe what Jesus(a.s.) said in Bible, then what do you believe???????????
In return you try to put in every bodies throat that" WHO DENIES AND DISOBEYS EVERY THING JESUS SAID LOVES HIM MORE AND HE LOOK IN TO THE HEARTS AND NOT ALL THE EVIL DEEDS".
What kind of logic is it??? Are you insane?
And further ask me I'm sorry to say stupid questions.
Like Sharia? Father? etc...
Doesn't Jesus say that he how broke a single law of Lord doesn't enter the heaven? We Muslims gave those laws a name i.e. Sharia, DO YOU HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO IT???
Your twisted meanings are repeatedly answered like Einstein is the Father of Physics, CREATOR of that subject and same way every body knows that word father is used in same manner in English language (It is your English translation). Same way Jesus referred towards Lord as God, Creator as well Father many times in the Bible.
YOU BETTER STOP FOOLING YOUR SELVES AND STOP PLAYING WITH WORDS BEFORE YOU DIE (IT IS NOT A PLAY IT IS LIE THAT WILL COST YOU A VERY HEAVY PRICE).
BECAUSE THE JUDGEMENT DAY IS REAL AND VERY CLOSE NOW!!!!
Dave & Deb Chat,
You both are O.K. with any law and every law until it allows your "yellowish slimy filthy mid but stuck homo brains" practice the s.h.i.t. bash party.
UNFORTUNATELY SHARIA DOESN'T ALLOW ANY FILTY DICEASED "BY CHOICE BAD UNHYGENIC HABIT" to even prevail as personal human right which ultimately effects the over all society. Because that single act can't be personal which is effecting the whole society good or bad way!
The Shariah laws, as many bloggers have pointed out, is the ultimate expression of mental derangement/disease. Muslims (aka "Mohammedans","Quranists") have always upheld the sanctity of the Shariah. Why ? Because Shariah is derived from the Quran. Allah glorifies the Shariah. In fact in the Quran [005:048] one finds:
YUSUFALI: "To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. TO EACH AMONG YOU HAVE WE PRESCRIBED A LAW AND AN OPEN WAY. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;" [Quran(005:048)]
The lines in CAPS above, form the moral basis of the Shariah. Shariah, which was not a revelation, was thus founded. It began as the Charter of Madinah. Then later, based on sunnah, Quran and authentic hadiths (Bukhari, Muslim), the Shariah was embodied.
However, what if tne Quran itself may not have been divine ? What if its divine origins were in suspect ? What would then be the status of Shariah ? How can one reconcile the status of the Shariah in this case ?
These are hard questions. To explore the Divine origins of the Quran, I came across the following article published in The Atlantic Monthly (January 1999). This article was written by Toby E. Lester. His article contends that the Quran, as we know today (i.e. from where Abdullah Yusuf Ali translated it into English, and has been quoted above), could have been very well a fabrication. He states that the present Quran has been rewritten on the original Quran, which was in Hijazi Arabic script. X-ray diffraction studies have revealed of some old manuscripts about 1000 years old, discovered in Yemen in 1972. One needs to read the fascinating history of the Quran, which challenges the divine origins of the Arabic revelation. In fact, it is argued that Quran was rewritten several times.
The Lester article appearing in The Atlantic Monthly can be read at the link
It is in 3 parts, and requires careful reading. One cazn make up one's mind after that regading the divinity of the Quran, and hence the sanctity of the Shariah, derived from it.
There is a rebuttal by one Dr. Azizah Y. al-Hibri and that is linked here too. However the rebuttal, in my view, fails to make an argument against the original Lester article. The Azizah article is simply contemptuous, without much logical substance. The link is as below:
Both the articles appeared before 9/11. My question is if we are not sure about the Divine origins of the Quran, why should we (non-Muslkms in the West) pay so much homage to the Shariah ?
Well said. I have not met any moderate cyber-Muslims here. Staunch defenders of everything Islam, including the Sharia, most of them qualify as fanatics really.
If Muslims here in the West are fanatics in their outlook, what hope is there for their brethen back in Islamic countries? Yet, my own experience show that there is a sizable group of moderate Muslims who question some of the Islamic laws, rituals, and customs (particularly if they belong to sects that are themselves persecuted by mainstream Islam). Nothing works like a taste of narrow-mindedness in bringing home the message to at least those Muslims at the receiving end that it is hurting Islamic societies.
Most of the Western Muslim establishment is comprised of Islamist groups claiming to be moderates. True moderate Muslims reject Islamic supremacy and Sharia; embrace religious equality and democracy.
What is a moderate Muslim? According to a dictionary, a moderate is a person who is opposed to radical or extreme views or measures, especially in politics or religion. Yet, majority of the public seem to be struggling with the definition of a moderate Muslim. Perhaps we can make this task easier by defining a radical Muslim and then defining the moderate as an opposite of the radical.
Muslims Against Sharia compiled a list of issues that differentiate moderate Muslims from Islamic radicals. Hopefully you can help us grow this list.
You wrote, "If Christian is a person who follows the teachings of Christ (pbuh) and not one who worships Christ (pbuh). (We Muslims are more Christian than the Christians themselves).", when you write "We Muslims" are you speaking for everyone in the world that calls themselves Muslim?
Not all people that call themselves "Christian" believe that Jesus is Who He Is and that is God-Incarnate.
Not all people that call themselves "Christian" are "Christian" only God can look into someone's heart, I can't, I am not God, I am just a messenger.
I, by the way am not speaking for "Christians", I am speaking for God, the Trinity, Our Father, Our Brother and Our Knitting Buddy, the One that, as the bible says, knit us together in our mother's womb.
Christ, by the way, is not His Name, His Name is Jesus, Christ is a title.
You quoted various places in the bible when Jesus referred to the Father, but do you believe that God is our Father?
Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life no one comes to the Father except thru Me", He did not say no one comes to God except thru Me, did He?
You also quoted various places in the bible where it says, "God is One", Jesus also said, "I and the Father are One", does He not?
Jesus basically boiled the ten commandments down to one word and that word is LOVE, which God happens to be, a Being of Pure Love.
Jesus said to, "Love your enemies", did He not?
Is this what the being that spoke to Mohammed also taught or it it something else that he changed?
You seem to be very good at not thinking for yourself and quoting various books such as the bible and the koran rather than at least attempting to answer a question but another one: How come if the koran supposedly speaks highly of the "People of the Book" that the "Book" is outlawed in countries with strict sharia law???
If the bible is True and it is, then the distortions and outright contradictions in the koran concerning the bible can't be true.
I don't know what everything in the bible exactly means but I don't have to, that is not what God has chosen me for.
A lot of people are hiding behind the koran and a lot of people are hiding behind the bible or various other "holy books" but there is nowhere to hide, God is a searcher of hearts and minds not of labels, religious affiliations or lack of a religious affiliation.
God is not an egomaniac but is Love, Pure Love and He cares for ALL of His creation and that is why He has a Plan and has had a Plan since before creation and His Plan will come to Fruition.
Jesus also said, "My Kingdom is not of this world", but as should be obvious "sharia law" is to set up a worldly kingdom.
You didn't answer any of the other questions so I don't expect any here to be answered but I asked them anyway.
Take care, be ready, see you and the REST OF HUMANITY IN THE KINGDOM.
All possible kind of questions asked by non Muslims about Islam answered on below web sites:
ALL MISCONCEPTIONS AND FALSE MEANINGS ARE ANSWERED:
1-www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm (on this site you will get all answers about Islam, CHRISTIANITY, JESUS, JUDAISM , ETHEISIM, HINDUISM and all other religions).
Most of the Western Muslim establishment is comprised of Islamist groups claiming to be moderates. True moderate Muslims reject Islamic supremacy and Sharia; embrace religious equality and democracy.
What is a moderate Muslim? According to a dictionary, a moderate is a person who is opposed to radical or extreme views or measures, especially in politics or religion. Yet, majority of the public seem to be struggling with the definition of a moderate Muslim. Perhaps we can make this task easier by defining a radical Muslim and then defining the moderate as an opposite of the radical.
Muslims Against Sharia compiled a list of issues that differentiate moderate Muslims from Islamic radicals. Hopefully you can help us grow this list.
"when you found out I wasnt too far from the truth?"
You reveal to every reader here that you are an untrustworthy poster who knows nothing of the truth.
Truth is not relative. When you miss telling the truth- you are speaking falsely and you are a liar.
In the same way you are fooled by Islam. Mohammed plagiarized from the already-extant religions of Judaism and Christianity. If you have any ability to think independently- consider your faith may be not "too far from the truth".
You are arguing with a mouthpiece, whose job is to recycle what it was fed with/told to do. I cannot see the rationale for the argument with Moody who - for all his honesty can only recite what he knows, without any understanding of what he says. Moody and rationality are poles apart.
I have a theory: I believe that Quran maybe a way by which God/Devil/Fatbird wants the world to end. The Quran contains strictures for bloodbath against those who will disbelieve. What more can that diety want in order to recycle creation again and again ?
You wrote, " He sealed (finalized) the Messengers with Prophet Muhammed and abrogated all previous books with the Qur'an.", seems to me that this god of islam has some problems, considering that he says things for awhile and then changes them or is he just a liar?
You also wrote, "The Belief in Preordainment (Qadar) means to believe that everything — good or bad — happens or takes place according to what Allah has ordained for it. He has created everything in due proportion.", by this statement we have absolutely no FREE WILL, is that correct?
I would like to make a comment about something called PREDESTINATION in the bible, this means that God knows what we will do but it does not mean that we are preprogramed to do it as per PREORDAINMENT in the koran.
Since God knew some would never repent this side of breath, He came up with His Plan which is for the salvation of ALL OF THE PEOPLE that He created, which happens to be ALL OF HUMANITY.
God happens to be a Being of Pure Love and He is a Trinity and God-Incarnate, Jesus of Nazareth, was a Jew, a member of the Chosen People and they are the Chosen People for the simple reason that God chose and formed them.
I have met God, the Trinity, and I have met satan and if you think that God is such an egomaniac that it is more important that you know His Name than how we treat each other then a god such as that is not worthy of any kind of respect much less obedience.
God, the True, Living, Triune, Triumphant God, has a Plan and has had His Plan since before creation and His Plan will come to Fruition.
By the way God is not a He, a She or an It but, and I repeat myself, a Being of PURE LOVE.
We will all be judged since we have FREE WILL, but guess what God's Plan contains a total and unconditional pardon and that will be compliments of God Himself since He won the keys to hell and death by enduring both and winning the keys to both.
If PREORDAINMENT was true, how could anyone be rewarded or punished for something that they had no control over?
Like I have said before, I do not hold it against Mohammad that he was deceived and I have also said that God is a searcher of hearts and minds not of religious affiliations or lack thereof.
Also, that it is important what you do and WHY you do it and what you know.
Take care, see you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.
The Arch-bishop of Canterbury was very naive in making his suggestion. If laws and constitutions are to meet religious tests, we are turning over a legal system which is designed to respect the rights of all, in favor of the particular religious maxims of various religions. Would those that posited this question suggest that Catholic principles govern our laws, thus forbidding abortion? How about Jewish law? That would close down the pig farms, and end ham and bacon for many of us. Mormon law? Close down Starbucks and liquor stores. Would Moslem law permitting polygamy be included? Why pick some laws and exclude others? This is a totally crazy suggestion, encouraging the "Taliban" ideologues of every denomination to push, lobby, buycott, maybe even get violent, in promoting their all or nothing positions. Politics is gray, not black and white. Religions generally are all or nothing, and do not respect middle grounds.
Were you mad when you found out I wasnt too far from the truth? :-)
I love it when I am right...
"The divorce rate in America for first marriage, vs second or third marriage 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second and 74% of third marriages end in divorce."
Did I hurt your feelings when I said that? Were you upset? Did you cry? How sorry do you think I am at this point?
AN INFLUENTIAL GROUP OF MUSLIM THEOLOGIANS IN INDIA HAVE DENOUNCED TERRORISM, SAYING IT IS COMPLETELY AGAINST THE TEACHINGS OF ISLAM.
Monday February 25, 2008
Their statements were made at a meeting held at the Darul-Uloom Deoband, a powerful Islamic school more than 150 years old.
Scholars from 6,000 religious schools attended the meeting.
The Deoband school promotes a brand of Islam which some say was an inspiration to Afghanistan's Taleban.
The school has always denied this.
Opening the conclave the head of the Deoband school, Maulana Marghoobur Rahman, described terrorism as a thoughtless act which is against the teachings of Islam.
He said that the killing of innocent people of any religion was prohibited by the Koran, the Muslim Holy Book.
Many participants said they want to change popular perceptions in which, they say, terrorism is being equated with Islam.
Others said that while Muslims should not be harassed because of anti-terrorism operations, the community also needed to be more introspective.
Many Islamic seminaries across India have come under the scanner of the federal authorities in the wake of recent terror attacks.
Set up in 1866 in north India the Darul-Uloom Deoband is the most influential Muslim religious school in south and south-east Asia.
"Every marriage is a risk. ***65% of all marriages in America end up in divorce*** What is your point Scumbag?"
Everyone reading here-
Please make a mental note that
MISCHKA IS A LIAR. SHE"S JUST MAKING THINGS UP TO DEFEND ISLAM INSTEAD OF SEARCHING FOR THE TRUTH. DON"T TRUST ANYTHING SHE CLAIMS POSTS. TRUTH MATTERS. CHECK IT OUT:
Here's the truth-
"What is the current divorce rate in America?
It is frequently reported that the divorce rate in America is 50%. This data is not accurately correct, however, it is reasonably close to actual. The Americans for Divorce Reform estimates that "Probably, 40 or possibly even 50 percent of marriages will end in divorce if current trends continue.", which is actually a projection.
The divorce rate in America for first marriage, vs second or third marriage 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second and 74% of third marriages end in divorce."
Jihadis will assuredly target the one hundred fifty years plus Dar-ul-Uloom Seminary in Deoband, India, for their attempts to delink Islam from violence. The Times of India (ToI) link is:
Does anybody fathom to probe, why, if there are isolated groups of Muslims who want to promote peace, communal harmony, their efforts fail or are doomed to failure like that of the reformer Sir Syed Ahmed Khan ? Someone wrote that Ahmed Deedat and Zakir Naik are trying the same. But, why are their efforts failing or has produced no impact with the Jihadists ?
I believe that Islam being violent and intolerant to its core, presents unsurmountable obstacles for those sane and rational Muslims who want to delink Islam and present a progressive plan for its superior evolution. It is the problem with the dogma: Quranic strictures such as Quran[009:029],[004:095],[009:005],[047:004],[005:033] etc., and their likes that pose the severest of all headaches.
Here in America - IF you even live in America - you would know that you have dog lovers and people who just dont like dogs. Not everyone is a dog lover you buffoon. My advice to you is seriously consider who you are TRYING to ally yourself with - a murderer. A gender-troubled moron who wants to kill Muslims simply because we are Muslim. He deserves to be called every low and vile word in every language.
Deb - grow up would you? Are you a man? Do you have anything close to courage? Or are these sniveling little asinine come backs all you have got?
"Well, Suzanne has the best description for you and your ilk: PIG (P-erverted I-slamic G-rowth)."
I dont want to post my description for you here. It might reduce you to tears to know what you really are worth.
"However, you don't sound credulous. You must have problems in your marriage. This gorilla bragging shows such. If your marriage was happy you wouldn't be fishing around for jollies on this and other forums."
ON the contrary - YOU were the one who brought up my marriage for some odd reason. It seems a little odd that you would attack my marriage out of the blue like that. But then again - it doesnt - you are after all a vile and putrid thing and that is to be expected from you. A single, lonely, jealous and depressed little man who has never had a steady relationship and never will. Did you just get dumped for the millionth time? Are you SO pathetic now that you need to go out of your way to find a problem with other people? Lowly, miserable coward. Anyway, you see me on these boards if Im at work or working at home. Thats it. Its you who is posting here every five minutes and shows the world you have NO life - forget a social circle. People hate you and you know it. Scumbag.
"Your marriage could get "talaqued" - its that unstable. That's a very common Muslim phenomenon. All would it take is to up the ante."
Is that supposed to scare me? It doesnt. Talaq means divorce. Every marriage is a risk. ***65% of all marriages in America end up in divorce*** What is your point Scumbag? Are you not allowed to get a divorce if you want in your cult? Why would you want to force someone to be with you who doesnt? If there is a day when he doesnt want to be married - let him go. If there is a day when I dont want to be married to him - I will go. I would ask for a Khula. Simple. Why would you drag it out and make life worse for both people??? Who cares for that kind of a life?
I am assuming you are with someone who doesnt want to be with you (surprise surprise)...let them go. You will be much happier Deb.
OH and my sympathies for your break-up...its pretty obvious that you have just been dumped...
Stupidity of US foreign policy is always the main reason for disaster. US has gleefully alloweed diplomatic recognition of Kosovo. Well, if US Muslims where they have ghettoed, and are in numerical majority claim a Muslim majority state will US Govt. keep quiet ? By recognizing Kosovo as an independent country, implicitly, US has recognized the supremacy if the Shariah laws. This can work against all other secular countries and including USA. Already Kashniri separatists are emboldened and empowered by the Kosovo liberation. The full news is at the Pakistan's Daily Dawn Newspaper:
The recent elections in Pakistan, a hotbed of radical Islam, elects Nawaz Sharif and Asif Ali Zardari parties. However, according to ToI these parties have support from the militant groups and does not exercise tight control.
The Indian sleuths (dhotiwallahs) fear that now the intelligence is that these groups work in tandem and often cooperate. This could destabilize the subcontinent, and its ripples may spread globally. USA can get affected, due to its significant FDI and BPO in the IT sector in India.
This Koranic fascination of micro-managing the lives of Muslims in order to make them so pious and holy is not working because it is based on a stupid concept. There is no way, anyone can legislate morality. Forget the Koran, even God cannot (rather does not) interfere in the exercise of our free will. The only caveat is--exercise your free will but be prepared to reap the consequences of your actions. This whole cycle --free will, action, consequences or karma is on autopilot. And this climb out of the moral rut, like our inner struggle to rectify our human flaws, is a slow painstaking process. The sharia is not only barbaric, it is a based on a stupid concept. We as human beings must do everything in our power to eradicate sharia from every civilized nation on earth.
Thank you for your support and kind words. Well, all I need to state is that I am not offended or troubled by such scurrilous epithets. I know what I am supposed to do, and hence I do not suffer from the problem of fragile identity. Many however do. They get sensitive and offended. But, with such barbaric attitudes, one needs to be resolute. That's what I am trying to hold onto.
Anyway, I would suggest that if you really want to know about Islam [Quran, Sunnah, Shariah, Jihad, Hadiths] a very authentic source on the Internet is the University of Southern California Muslim Student Association website.
This site contains a very good compilation, but of the Jammat-i-Islam variety. It does not whitewash Islamic interpretatioins in order to make Islam look nice. What Muslims here and on similar blogs try to do is to paint a very nice picture of Islam, which just contradicts with what we read and hear in the major news outlets.
In addition I would recommend the following website of Dr. Ali Sina
"You really think MY married life could be screwed up? If you knew me and my husband - you would know how wrong you are. We are an awesome couple and will stay that way. Call me egotistical - but I got one of the few good ones and I am happy. OH and now you have him laughing at you too!"
:-). Well, Suzanne has the best description for you and your ilk: PIG (P-erverted I-slamic G-rowth). However, you don't sound credulous. You must have problems in your marriage. This gorilla bragging shows such. If your marriage was happy you wouldn't be fishing around for jollies on this and other forums. Your marriage could get "talaqued" - its that unstable. That's a very common Muslim phenomenon. All would it take is to up the ante.
"Anyway, you can take your jealousy and put it where the sun doesnt shine...lol"
Yes, Quran was first revealed in a place where the sun didn't shine. You have shown affinity for such dark places and you may have and seen them in plenty. What's more ?
Don't mess around; you might get caught and repent.
Well, guess what ? This is my last rebuttal to your infantile chest-beating.
Thank you for your posts here. They are very informative to me and the other people who read here who have very little knowledge of Islam or Muslims.
I am sorry you have to take so much verbal abuse from the Muslim posters. Just consider it an affirmation that you have scored points by revealing the truth and they have no way to counter but call names.
I know I speak for dog lovers when I say Mischka calling you a dog is over the top. In America- we love our dogs. I own two and they are the most loving and loyal companions. So she has mistakenly given you a high compliment- that all American dog owners will recognise.
I had read on this board how Muhammed had a hatred for dogs. Dog owners can be arrested in Saudi for walking their dogs (sharia law again).
Your post affirms that "dog hatred". As a person born in America- you should know that will never sell here. We are animal lovers in general and dog lovers in particular.
How ugly and hateful of you to use such degrading language against a human and dogs. You only degrade yourself to the reader's here.
I would close by saying-
YOU ARE A PIG
But pigs are actually loving and intelligent- and you obviously aren't..
A bitter, racist and bigoted non-Muslim whose knowledge is limited to his/her own imagination - is not a good source of information for anyone. His loyalties are to NO ONE. He lives in the slums and still dreams of India.
You people want to know about Sharia - look at the Qur'an. The Qur'an is the holy book of the Muslims. My question is that if I have a book that I was given as my 411 for all my questions...what good is it if I am still asking other people for answers?
You are the one in need of help Deblubber - you like that dont you? Sicko.
Anyway - the idiot wrote below -
"Mischka, your ignorance has been exposed. I would speculate that your married life, you stated you are married, is indeed screwed up. Get some medical help."
Hmmm...this is coming from a gender confused terrorist who is trying to kill American Muslims. LOL! This nasty little pervert is a joke! WHATS WORSE IS THAT HE IS NOT EVEN AN AMERICAN!!!!!!!
You really think MY married life could be screwed up? If you knew me and my husband - you would know how wrong you are. We are an awesome couple and will stay that way. Call me egotistical - but I got one of the few good ones and I am happy. OH and now you have him laughing at you too! Anyway, you can take your jealousy and put it where the sun doesnt shine...lol
My ignorant, ugly, mangy little mutt - you are the one in need of medical help and you KNOW it all too well. You are jealous. Thats all it is. You are probably as lonely as the rest of your kin at the dog pound. I suggest you join them and even though you sound VERY desperate for attention - try not to reproduce. It would be a curse on humanity to see what comes out of you. Nothing but more ugly mangy rats to deal with and find homes for...we are having a hard enough time finding a place for you. We certainly dont want to be responsible for your dirty litter.
Dave provides an opportunity to refute misconceptions.
since you find islam ridiculous dave- it is unlikely that you would go to an islamic arbiter for any reconciliation.
so, it would not affect your life if others chose to utilize some service of their own volition.
since they deal primarily with social issues- bodily emissions, while distasteful -would not fall under any category one could think of.
your statement-
"This entire legislative approach to morality is dumb. I had a running debate with Victoria sometime back. She does not see it either. And neither do any Muslims for that matter--the simple fact that you cannot attain morality or character through legislation."
possibly you have forgotten what our debate was about- but leglislating morality (or my assumed {incorrectly} support of such a concept) was not one of our discussions-
however- since it's pertinent to this topic-
if muslims decide to use mediators from a sharia standpoint, one would assume that they do have some degree of self determination in deciding their own fates- (as do all americans)
so, again- it would not be affecting you, nor really your decision to control what others choose to do, or in what fashion they choose to do it.
but it is all moot anyway- as the discussion is about england- and to my knowledge- no one has petitioned the american legal system for such inclusion at this point.
but it's an emotionally evocative word for some, especially when paired with the USA- so i assume quinn and meacham wanted to create some conflict as that seems to be their modus operandi as journalsits.
You comment on farting and the Sharia is an excellent one. The Sharia may actually condemn someone to be stoned because of farting. I would not be surprised.
I find the entire Muslim/Koranic philosophy to be so ridiculous as be worthy of the butt of jokes world-wide. But the skins of mullahs are so think they don't get it.
This entire legislative approach to morality is dumb. I had a running debate with Victoria sometime back. She does not see it either. And neither do any Muslims for that matter--the simple fact that you cannot attain morality or character through legislation. Do this, don't do this (otherwise you will be flogged or stoned or your hand will be cut off). Dumb philosophy leading to a dumb outlook on life. This "God" through a supposedly religious book is attempting to control peoples' lives and make them more holy. But this philosophy is exactly having the opposite effect--making Muslims more bloody-minded against the whole world, more and more narrow-minded and insular, and more and more "holier-then-thou" in their attitude. These fellows think they are so holy that the rest of world in their view is corrupt and degenerate.
But you will never find a more intolerant people like Muslims, a people who have an extremely poor track record of granting non-Muslims freedom of their right to practice religion. Muslims tend to be defenders of everything Muslim and Islamic, and vehemently opposed to anyone trying to capture "heroes" like Osama and the Taliban. What a contradition.
And none of them question anything. The entire Koran is God's word it seems. It is a hopeless situation even if sharia turns out to be somewhat tolerant of farting.
"Sharia is NOT *Islamic Law*. If it were a law - it would come straight from the Qur'an. Since it doesnt, it isnt."
Well, that's a misleading baloney. The USC-MSA has the following information:
" The Arabic word shari`ah refers to the laws and way of life prescribed by Allah (SWT) for his servants. The shari`ah deals with the ideology and faith; behavior and manners; and practical daily matters. "To each among you, we have prescribed a law and a clear way. (Qur 'an 5:48) Shari`ah includes the Qur'an and the sunnah of the Prophet (saas)."
This quote from USC-MSA, who I think is more credible than your blabber, directly contradicts what you haved written about Shariah not being from Quran. Shariah is not a revelation, but it is a legal system and is "derived" from the Quran. Hence it is Allah's law, and by that extension it is divine.
Mischka, your ignorance has been exposed. I would speculate that your married life, you stated you are married, is indeed screwed up. Get some medical help.
ANY RELATIONS BETWEEN THE SEXES OUTSIDE MARRIAGE IS AGAINST THE LAW:
Prosecutors in Saudi Arabia have begun investigating 57 young men who were arrested on Thursday for flirting with girls at shopping centres in Mecca.
The men are accused of wearing indecent clothes, playing loud music and dancing in order to attract the attention of girls, the Saudi Gazette reported.
They were arrested following a request of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice.
The mutaween enforce Saudi Arabia's conservative brand of Islam, Wahhabism.
Earlier in the month, the authorities enforced a ban on the sale of red roses and other symbols used in many countries to mark Valentine's Day.
The ban is partly because of the connection with a "pagan Christian holiday", and also because the festival itself is seen as encouraging relations between the sexes outside marriage, punishable by law in the kingdom.
The Prosecution and Investigation Commission said it had received reports of such "bad" behaviour by 57 young men at a number of shopping centres in the holy city of Mecca, the Saudi Gazette said.
The guardians of some of the men defended their actions, however, saying they would regularly get together on the weekend to have fun without ever violating laws governing the segregation of the sexes, it added.
Re: It's possible that Shariah courts have a place here-
Douglas Todd writes that the belief that a multicultural society is socially divisive verges on being "shocking." Shocking perhaps to him, but not to me, and I would suggest, to many other Canadians, very few of whom are "hysterical," "Islamophobic" or "dumbed down."
I would suggest that we are concerned that multiculturalism is being used as a cloak to cover the nurturing of decidedly un-Canadian values as embodied in Shariah law.
The Archbishop of Canterbury ignited a firestorm by saying Shariah law would likely be adopted in Britain.
It is true that other religions have had their own courts for many years, but what Todd ignores is that those religions are content for their judicial decisions to be wholly within and subservient to Canadian law. The people advocating Shariah have no interest in democracy or civilization. Their beliefs are rooted in the primitive misogyny of the seventh century. Any official recognition of Shariah law would be viewed by its advocates as a step towards their ultimate goal of legal ascendency over us all.
That nightmare scenario is only "inevitable" if the views of people like Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, and Todd are given any credence. Hopefully, in this instance, they will receive the disdain and rejection they deserve.
All possible kind of questions asked by non Muslims about Islam answered on below web sites:
ALL MISCONCEPTIONS AND FALSE MEANINGS ARE ANSWERED:
1-www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm
2-www.islamalways.com/
3-www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
4-www.jamaat.net/deedat.htm
5-www.islamtomorrow.com/yusuf.asp
6-www.justaskislam.com/index.php (on this site you will get answer of every question you have and ask with in a day or by next day - IT’S A CHALLENGE)
hi wiccan-
ive stayed away for the very reason you state-
good question-
1) because you are a reasonable poster here- never descending to ugliness and always with a very understanding nature-
so ill assume your intentions are very good, as theyve been so in the past-
(also, im hanafi (an islamic school of thought) and am personally compelled to always look for the good intentions in peoples hearts first-
2) it brings to light an understanding (for me) of why people are so opposed to sharia, without knowing what it is.
first-
the question was based on a response to the archbishop in england- about a model of sharia law there-
quinn and meachem threw in the US aspect- i guess to generate conflict which is a tactic they seem to fall back on mostly in their questions-
personally- i find it kind of intellectually lazy- but it keeps people coming to their blog so i guess it works for their careers-
(ive suggested many questions geared more to conflict resolution myself- but it is not as sensational- also it requirres a great deal more thought and intelligence and effort)
the assumption is that muslims find sharia superior to or preferable to civil law.
current laws are not superceded by te model in britain-
no one that i know has suggested an overthrow of- or replacement of our justice system except a few nuts in the extreme and a few nutty accusers in the other extreme-
lets forget about them for now-
theyre positions are boringly predictable.
it is the implementation of sharia as a tool for mediation and arbitration
one example (please, im no scholar- this is simply an idea i had) i can give is that in islamic business dealings- 2 witnesses are required who can be recalled to verify all contracts and transactions.
this is how i operate al the time, and its a bother- and even most muslims dont want to go to the trouble-
but even being awareof the witnesses seems to keep deals straighter- as they encourage accountibility.
imagine if this were adopted in all business deals in america- all of the nuisance litigation that would disappear-
for family law and social matters- its hard to imagine an american judge demanding that a husband and wife go to reconciliation arbitration before deciding on the finality of their divorce, or ordering a husband to pay up his entire maher (a gift to the wife by the husband, agreed upon contractually at the entrance to the marriage, and without which the marriage is not considered valid)
but alot of guy dont pay in a timely fashion-
also the husband has to support the wife for 3 months after the divorce is finalized to help her get on her feet-
yes- it does seem kind of unfair from the man's perspective, doesnt it?
criminal law isnt an issue, as it is not generally decided by islamic courts-
the setup in england is that if the law of england decides a decision made is unreasonable- it is not to be followed.
but the big difference is that these cases are voluntarily entered upon by the parties involved.
and are a finer tool for arbitrating decision where some of the subtleties may not be recognized or even known by civil courts.
the jewish people have utuilized the BETH DIN system in britain for some time.
these decisions do not overule, supercede or have any primacy or take precedence over existing laws.
i think its pretty important that is understood.
actually- since the archbishop has made his comment-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"There's a place for finding what would be a constructive accommodation with some aspects of Muslim law, as we already do with some other aspects of religious law," he said. "What we don't want either, is I think, a stand-off, where the law squares up to people's religious consciences."
Reasonable and considered sentiments, until Williams added that some aspect of sharia in Britain "seems unavoidable." For the tabloids and the Anglican church, those were fighting words. Calls have been made for the Archbishop to resign from within and outside the Church (he has refused) and the story has remained front page news ever since. Considering the latent (and occasionally explicit) hostility, it is ironic that British Muslims didn't bring this subject up in the first place.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
muslim blogs, which i frequent- are all abuzz with it- and ive learned alot about it when i had no real knowledge or interest before-
so- when people hear the word 'sharia'- they automatically conjure up images of judge, jury and executioner all rolled into one.
what has been played out in england has been marriage, divorce, and business decisions-
the criminal cases deferred to the criminal courts-
well- i hope my poor attmept has brouhgt a bit of sense-
most muslims in britain (for example, and canada too) are actually more vociferous in their condemnation of and disassociation with sharia law than many in the general non-muslim population-
just being a muslim, on these boards-
is reason enough to be suspect here-
but, i amsk what i amsk and that's all that i amsk.
Again with the stupidity - I am losing patience and dont have the kind of time you people do. I DO have a life and repeating myself is a waste of my time.
Sharia is NOT *Islamic Law*. If it were a law - it would come straight from the Qur'an. Since it doesnt, it isnt. To put it bluntly - governments following their interpretations of Sharia are NOT necessarily Islamic. Its a system, not a law. Just like you have systems in America and all over the world. If you are going to argue with me - get it right.
"Insolent= Presumptuous and insulting in manner or speech; arrogant. Audaciously rude or disrespectful; impertinent."
I am arrogant, insulting, audaciously rude, disrespectful to murderers and terrorists like Deborah Chatterjee and religious bigots who are out to hurt Muslims. My family and friends consist of Muslims and non-Muslims. You want me to smile while you plot of ways to hurt me??? Deb is planning his own version of the Holocaust in America and you want to join him. Is that supposed to make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside???
"Impudent= Characterized by offensive boldness; insolent or impertinent. Shameless.Obsolete. Immodest."
I am completely shameless in insulting a murderer and terrorist like Deb. I am also perfectly willing to be as offensive as posssible to him.
According to Deb - hate speech is okay - thats why I love giving him a dose of his medicine. You should ask that nutcase and see all of his posts under Islam and Violence...how hateful he is. I started out being very nice to him but soon found it to be useless because he is a mentally ill individual. I THINK he also admitted it on one of the posts - you should check that out too.
He is beneath decent people and after he called for the killing of American Muslims - he became nothing more then a perverted and grotesque looking mutt.
"I have read all these posts, and it's all people screaming past each other, not talking, not communicating. I was hoping to find out why some people would prefer Sharia to our civil and secular laws. That's all, and not one post has addressed this. But if I'm patient, maybe someone will."
Try reading the extreme (literalist/fundamengtalist) interpretation of Shariah/Islam in the two following books:
1. Maulana Syed Abul Ala Maududi, JIHAD IN ISLAM.
2. Sayyid Qutb, MILESTONES.
These should not be hard to locate in the local public library nearest you. These two concern the non-Muslims most.
Reader, I am well aware of the abuses Saudi Arabia commits in the name of Islam, and I do not condone them, because these abuses violate the law "Harm None". But I was asking what elements of Sharia law would be an improvement on Western civil law. I have read all these posts, and it's all people screaming past each other, not talking, not communicating. I was hoping to find out why some people would prefer Sharia to our civil and secular laws. That's all, and not one post has addressed this. But if I'm patient, maybe someone will.
I have never advocated Sharia law on these blogs ever. Why? Because a VERY small part of Sharia is actually based on the Quran.
Sharia can be considered a system but I dont think its really Islamic law because more then half of it does not come from the Quran and that is what a law would be based on.
Also Reader -
If you think you have found a kindred spirit in Deb - dont be a fool. He could just as easily turn on you as easily he turned on his own in India.
Deborah - lol
Do what you have to do Debby - you wont get anywhere. How do I know this? Because your arguments are warmongering and will never see light. :-) Americans are sick of war, anyone who advocates war and absolutely DONE with religious terrorism. Ask the people who are ACTUALLY fighting these wars and then go off with your nasty mouth about persecuting Muslims.
Reader - you are right - if Wiccan was in Saudi - he would probably have to deal with a lot of hatred. Im not so sure about the death sentence just because he is not a Muslim. But I know life would be hard for him. Muslim countries are FAR from perfect and I have never defended their harsh or extreme actions.
You seem to think that I am defending Saudi Arabia and terrorism here. That would be a mistake. I have tried to clarify misconceptions about Muslims and Islam...things that people "think" are true but are not. I have not advocated Sharia law here - ever.
That is why Deb seems to be such a nuisance and a waste of life. He seems to be desperately looking for friends - never to find any.
Actually, Reader, I agree with your position that it is pointless to argue on this thread. Muslims, who post here seem to have this dysfunctional 'rectal-cranial inversion'. In your words "...got a smarty mouth and her butt on her shoulders.", which is similar to how I have characterized.
In reality we (Shariah haters) should cohesively work on the excellent forums such as WP, to advance the compelling argument, with facts, that ISLAM IS A BARBARIC RELIGION.
I hope Wiccan knows- if she/he were in Saudi and was caught practicing the Wiccan beliefs- she/he would be tried by the religious police and sentenced to death..
"If Mischka wants to advocate for Shariah- she should go live for several years in a country under Shariah law. Then she will be qualified to speak to us about the glories of Islamic law.
She seems to be a young person (at least in thought) and raised in the USA by Muslim parents. She's got a smarty mouth and her butt on her shoulders. But the other Muslim posters seem to be the same, so maybe that's the fallback for having no argument."
Where do you see in my posts that I am advocating Sharia law?
If you are going to post - at least prove to us that you have more then a 3rd grader's wits.
There arent many posters here - so why dont you point out who else is a "smarty mouth" (what the heck is that?) since you seem to have all the answers.
Also, if you dont like what I have to say - leave.
Stop acting like the idiot mule you are and get on with your life. Nothing you say makes a difference to anyone. I think we have done our duty by you by letting you into the USA. Now, why cant you behave like a human being and not like a mutt foaming at the mouth all the time??? The least you can do is be respectful towards the citizens that let you in.
This monster wants to have his cake and eat it too. Lets look at Deb's demands from the USA:
He/she wants the USA to grant him entrance into this country.
He/she wants to go to his country to visit and be able to come back here too.
He/she wants to eat the food here, wear the clothes, shop, etc.
He/she wants to be treated just like the citizens of the USA.
He/she is NOT a Christian.
He/she is NOT a Jew.
He/she is NOT a Muslim.
He/she wants to be treated better then any of the above and also wants to slaughter ALL American Muslims in the process.
He/she does not want to respect ANY other law in the Constitution EXCEPT the first amendment because it allows him to vomit as he wishes.
He/she does not wish to respect any of our rights to pursue our lives the way we wish - he wants to put an end to being able to choose to be a Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc.
How? Simple. According to this sick, perverted and black hearted monster - we deport anyone who is Muslim or kill them in cold blood.
These and MUCH more are the demands that immigrants like Deb are making of our government. Now, we have to filter out people according to religion. Isnt this the very foundation of America? Religious freedom?
Yet...here he is...urging us to fight another religion based war when the world has seen enough of it and HE certainly WONT be the one fighting it. It WONT be his son or daughter - it will be OURS.
People like Deb are poisonous and should not only be deported but spend their lives in prison for trying to kill our future. Instead of a solution, this murderer wants more bloodshed.
If Mischka wants to advocate for Shariah- she should go live for several years in a country under Shariah law. Then she will be qualified to speak to us about the glories of Islamic law.
She seems to be a young person (at least in thought) and raised in the USA by Muslim parents. She's got a smarty mouth and her butt on her shoulders. But the other Muslim posters seem to be the same, so maybe that's the fallback for having no argument.
In other words- she speaks like she has no experience of the dangers of true Islam- like the poor American-raised "Muslim" girl who ran afoul of the Saudi religious police by having the audacity to go out for coffee at Starbucks with a male co-worker. She's on anti-anxiety drugs now and being treated for PTSD. She's lucky she was not beaten. All she really had to do was sign a forced confession. She was naive and it must have made her realise how little she knows of Islam.
Mischka should be thankful she's an American and hope she never has to live under Shariah Law.
"What aspects of Sharia law are superior to Western civil law? To you, what is lacking in Western civil law that could be improved by Sharia?"
Nothing is lacking in Western civil law. If you are truly a "Wiccan" (pagan) you would be slaughtered in Islamic laws, as the whole objective of Islam is to eliminate paganism, and if necessary by most bestial/brutal methods. So, you (if you are of true Wiccan beliefs and practices) would be a casualty if Sharia flourishes in USA/West. From Sharia's point of view Western civil laws are too lax allowing paganism (idol worship etc. and Wiccan faiths) to get equal respect as that of other faiths. Islam boils with hatred for such permissiveness in Western civil/secular laws.
Mischka, perhaps you are the one who can answer this. What aspects of Sharia law are superior to Western civil law? To you, what is lacking in Western civil law that could be improved by Sharia?
I have no axe to grind, and am asking with respect. Thank you for your time.
Coming from you - thats almost funny. You are the supreme EXAMPLE of "pedestrian stupidity". Nut case.
Like I said - majority of us have encountered each other before.
Deb has actually called for the killing of Muslims multiple times on the blogs. Agreeing with this wierdo is like agreeing with OBL. Deb is desperately groping for a friend right now and you seem to be it! Congratulations!
You want me to be civil to someone who wants to shoot my family and friends? I cannot do that. You want me to be nice to someone who is an immigrant but wants to kill other immigrants? I cannot do that.
Ive met this buffoon before by the name of Deb Chatterjee. He is nothing more then an outcast looking for some place he can call home. He has no home and for some odd reason he is territorial over the USA when he is not even an American!
He has called my comments shameful - you should see the disgusting posts this idiot has written.
So YES, when I come across bloodthirsty hounds like Deb - I WILL lash out at him. When I come across a warmongering terrorist like Deb - I WILL retalia
Readers’ Responses to Our Question (368)
Moody-
"He who breaks one "law of God"(Sharia in Arabic) does not enter the kingdom of heaven."
How old are you? If you are over 10 yrs, you should know there is no man who follows God's law to perfection (though many have died trying).
Are you telling us you are perfect in submitting to and obeying God's laws? And you have never sinned?
February 28, 2008 11:18 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Thomas Baum,
Its not me, its you yourself with whom you are playing with words.
AND IT IS NOT A PLAY, IT IS A LIE THAT WILL COST YOU A VERY HEAVY PRICE AFTER YOU DIE.
Submit to obey and repent HONESTLY and He will show you the way befor you die.
Or choose the LIE as you are granted the power to choose ONLY UNTIL YOU LIVE i.e., YOUR PRECIOUS FREE WILL!
Obedience or Disobedience to God????????????????
February 28, 2008 9:26 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Dave- In the spirit of Sharia, the imams of hate who inspire, equip, and send the young naive jihadists to suicide and the death of many innocents should also have their tongues cut out.
February 27, 2008 8:34 PM | Report Offensive Comments
My question is why can't mullahs who preach violence against humanity and sponsor/encourage/preach terrorism be flooged or their hands cut off? That would be one positive contribution of Sharia. After all the hate-inspiring mullahs have been flooged out of existence or their hands cuts off, we can talk about how beautiful Sharia is.
February 27, 2008 4:43 PM | Report Offensive Comments
TO MASOOD:
You wrote, "- He who breaks one "law of God"(Sharia in Arabic) does not enter the kingdom of heaven.".
Interesting statement here, does this mean that the kingdom of heaven is completely empty?
If not completely empty then it probably only has people in it that died really young!
Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.
February 27, 2008 12:07 PM | Report Offensive Comments
TO MOODY:
You wrote, "In return you try to put in every bodies throat that" WHO DENIES AND DISOBEYS EVERY THING JESUS SAID LOVES HIM MORE AND HE LOOK IN TO THE HEARTS AND NOT ALL THE EVIL DEEDS"."
This is not what I wrote, they are your words, are they not?
If you wish to comment about something that I wrote, that is fine, but to twist what I write and then to say that I wrote it, what would you call that?
I am not trying to tell anyone what to say or do, I am just saying that we have free will and we can either take personal responsibility for what we do or we don't, that is everyone's choice.
If it is forced on anyone than the free will that God gave to everyone is being denied to that person and that is not God's Way.
God wins, satan loses, a tie is unacceptable.
Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum
February 27, 2008 11:55 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Thomas Baum:
WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT IT?????
- Disobedience to God is main and major form (reason) of Evil leading to all evil deeds.
– Disobedience to Lord-God-Allah (in Arabic) means becoming partner to Satan-Devil-Evil. (So who is making partners the one who follow all the commandments or the one who break them all????)
MAKE A CHOICE NOW THOMAS WHO YOU WANT TO BE BEFORE YOU DIES?? BECAUSE AFTER THAT YOU WON'T BE GRANTED THE CHOICE OR ANY TIME FOR REPENTANCE!!
- He who breaks one "law of God"(Sharia in Arabic) does not enter the kingdom of heaven.
DOES ANY PRESENT DAY CHRISTIAN TRY TO UNDERSTAND OR REMEMBER IT??
February 27, 2008 12:26 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Thomas Baum:
I don't understand your logic.
I say and quote from Bible and Quran that "THE ONE WHO FOLLOW HIM BELIEVE MORE IN JESUS(a.s)"-
What’s so difficult in it to understand??
You don't believe in Qu'ran, you don't believe what Jesus(a.s.) said in Bible, then what do you believe???????????
In return you try to put in every bodies throat that" WHO DENIES AND DISOBEYS EVERY THING JESUS SAID LOVES HIM MORE AND HE LOOK IN TO THE HEARTS AND NOT ALL THE EVIL DEEDS".
What kind of logic is it??? Are you insane?
And further ask me I'm sorry to say stupid questions.
Like Sharia? Father? etc...
Doesn't Jesus say that he how broke a single law of Lord doesn't enter the heaven? We Muslims gave those laws a name i.e. Sharia, DO YOU HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO IT???
Your twisted meanings are repeatedly answered like Einstein is the Father of Physics, CREATOR of that subject and same way every body knows that word father is used in same manner in English language (It is your English translation). Same way Jesus referred towards Lord as God, Creator as well Father many times in the Bible.
YOU BETTER STOP FOOLING YOUR SELVES AND STOP PLAYING WITH WORDS BEFORE YOU DIE (IT IS NOT A PLAY IT IS LIE THAT WILL COST YOU A VERY HEAVY PRICE).
BECAUSE THE JUDGEMENT DAY IS REAL AND VERY CLOSE NOW!!!!
Dave & Deb Chat,
You both are O.K. with any law and every law until it allows your "yellowish slimy filthy mid but stuck homo brains" practice the s.h.i.t. bash party.
UNFORTUNATELY SHARIA DOESN'T ALLOW ANY FILTY DICEASED "BY CHOICE BAD UNHYGENIC HABIT" to even prevail as personal human right which ultimately effects the over all society. Because that single act can't be personal which is effecting the whole society good or bad way!
February 26, 2008 11:07 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The Shariah laws, as many bloggers have pointed out, is the ultimate expression of mental derangement/disease. Muslims (aka "Mohammedans","Quranists") have always upheld the sanctity of the Shariah. Why ? Because Shariah is derived from the Quran. Allah glorifies the Shariah. In fact in the Quran [005:048] one finds:
YUSUFALI: "To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. TO EACH AMONG YOU HAVE WE PRESCRIBED A LAW AND AN OPEN WAY. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;" [Quran(005:048)]
The lines in CAPS above, form the moral basis of the Shariah. Shariah, which was not a revelation, was thus founded. It began as the Charter of Madinah. Then later, based on sunnah, Quran and authentic hadiths (Bukhari, Muslim), the Shariah was embodied.
However, what if tne Quran itself may not have been divine ? What if its divine origins were in suspect ? What would then be the status of Shariah ? How can one reconcile the status of the Shariah in this case ?
These are hard questions. To explore the Divine origins of the Quran, I came across the following article published in The Atlantic Monthly (January 1999). This article was written by Toby E. Lester. His article contends that the Quran, as we know today (i.e. from where Abdullah Yusuf Ali translated it into English, and has been quoted above), could have been very well a fabrication. He states that the present Quran has been rewritten on the original Quran, which was in Hijazi Arabic script. X-ray diffraction studies have revealed of some old manuscripts about 1000 years old, discovered in Yemen in 1972. One needs to read the fascinating history of the Quran, which challenges the divine origins of the Arabic revelation. In fact, it is argued that Quran was rewritten several times.
The Lester article appearing in The Atlantic Monthly can be read at the link
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/199901/
It is in 3 parts, and requires careful reading. One cazn make up one's mind after that regading the divinity of the Quran, and hence the sanctity of the Shariah, derived from it.
There is a rebuttal by one Dr. Azizah Y. al-Hibri and that is linked here too. However the rebuttal, in my view, fails to make an argument against the original Lester article. The Azizah article is simply contemptuous, without much logical substance. The link is as below:
http://www.alhewar.com/AzizahAtlantic.htm
Both the articles appeared before 9/11. My question is if we are not sure about the Divine origins of the Quran, why should we (non-Muslkms in the West) pay so much homage to the Shariah ?
February 26, 2008 9:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
REPOST:
Well said. I have not met any moderate cyber-Muslims here. Staunch defenders of everything Islam, including the Sharia, most of them qualify as fanatics really.
If Muslims here in the West are fanatics in their outlook, what hope is there for their brethen back in Islamic countries? Yet, my own experience show that there is a sizable group of moderate Muslims who question some of the Islamic laws, rituals, and customs (particularly if they belong to sects that are themselves persecuted by mainstream Islam). Nothing works like a taste of narrow-mindedness in bringing home the message to at least those Muslims at the receiving end that it is hurting Islamic societies.
February 26, 2008 4:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Most of the Western Muslim establishment is comprised of Islamist groups claiming to be moderates. True moderate Muslims reject Islamic supremacy and Sharia; embrace religious equality and democracy.
What is a moderate Muslim? According to a dictionary, a moderate is a person who is opposed to radical or extreme views or measures, especially in politics or religion. Yet, majority of the public seem to be struggling with the definition of a moderate Muslim. Perhaps we can make this task easier by defining a radical Muslim and then defining the moderate as an opposite of the radical.
Muslims Against Sharia compiled a list of issues that differentiate moderate Muslims from Islamic radicals. Hopefully you can help us grow this list.
http://muslimsagainstsharia.blogspot.com/2008/01/what-is-moderate-muslim.html
Poll: Who is a moderate Muslim?
http://muslimsagainstsharia.blogspot.com/2008/01/poll-who-is-moderate-muslim.html
February 26, 2008 1:19 PM | Report Offensive Comments
TO MOODY:
You wrote, "If Christian is a person who follows the teachings of Christ (pbuh) and not one who worships Christ (pbuh). (We Muslims are more Christian than the Christians themselves).", when you write "We Muslims" are you speaking for everyone in the world that calls themselves Muslim?
Not all people that call themselves "Christian" believe that Jesus is Who He Is and that is God-Incarnate.
Not all people that call themselves "Christian" are "Christian" only God can look into someone's heart, I can't, I am not God, I am just a messenger.
I, by the way am not speaking for "Christians", I am speaking for God, the Trinity, Our Father, Our Brother and Our Knitting Buddy, the One that, as the bible says, knit us together in our mother's womb.
Christ, by the way, is not His Name, His Name is Jesus, Christ is a title.
You quoted various places in the bible when Jesus referred to the Father, but do you believe that God is our Father?
Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life no one comes to the Father except thru Me", He did not say no one comes to God except thru Me, did He?
You also quoted various places in the bible where it says, "God is One", Jesus also said, "I and the Father are One", does He not?
Jesus basically boiled the ten commandments down to one word and that word is LOVE, which God happens to be, a Being of Pure Love.
Jesus said to, "Love your enemies", did He not?
Is this what the being that spoke to Mohammed also taught or it it something else that he changed?
You seem to be very good at not thinking for yourself and quoting various books such as the bible and the koran rather than at least attempting to answer a question but another one: How come if the koran supposedly speaks highly of the "People of the Book" that the "Book" is outlawed in countries with strict sharia law???
If the bible is True and it is, then the distortions and outright contradictions in the koran concerning the bible can't be true.
I don't know what everything in the bible exactly means but I don't have to, that is not what God has chosen me for.
A lot of people are hiding behind the koran and a lot of people are hiding behind the bible or various other "holy books" but there is nowhere to hide, God is a searcher of hearts and minds not of labels, religious affiliations or lack of a religious affiliation.
God is not an egomaniac but is Love, Pure Love and He cares for ALL of His creation and that is why He has a Plan and has had a Plan since before creation and His Plan will come to Fruition.
Jesus also said, "My Kingdom is not of this world", but as should be obvious "sharia law" is to set up a worldly kingdom.
You didn't answer any of the other questions so I don't expect any here to be answered but I asked them anyway.
Take care, be ready, see you and the REST OF HUMANITY IN THE KINGDOM.
Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.
February 26, 2008 12:50 PM | Report Offensive Comments
All possible kind of questions asked by non Muslims about Islam answered on below web sites:
ALL MISCONCEPTIONS AND FALSE MEANINGS ARE ANSWERED:
1-www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm (on this site you will get all answers about Islam, CHRISTIANITY, JESUS, JUDAISM , ETHEISIM, HINDUISM and all other religions).
2-www.islamalways.com/
3-www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
4-www.jamaat.net/deedat.htm
5-www.islamtomorrow.com/yusuf.asp
6-www.justaskislam.com/index.php
7-www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/Q_LP/ (The Lawful and Prohibited in Islam)
February 26, 2008 3:11 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Most of the Western Muslim establishment is comprised of Islamist groups claiming to be moderates. True moderate Muslims reject Islamic supremacy and Sharia; embrace religious equality and democracy.
What is a moderate Muslim? According to a dictionary, a moderate is a person who is opposed to radical or extreme views or measures, especially in politics or religion. Yet, majority of the public seem to be struggling with the definition of a moderate Muslim. Perhaps we can make this task easier by defining a radical Muslim and then defining the moderate as an opposite of the radical.
Muslims Against Sharia compiled a list of issues that differentiate moderate Muslims from Islamic radicals. Hopefully you can help us grow this list.
http://muslimsagainstsharia.blogspot.com/ 2008/01/what-is-moderate-muslim.html
Poll: Who is a moderate Muslim?
http://muslimsagainstsharia.blogspot.com/ 2008/01/poll-who-is-moderate-muslim.html
February 26, 2008 1:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Mischka when you say:
"when you found out I wasnt too far from the truth?"
You reveal to every reader here that you are an untrustworthy poster who knows nothing of the truth.
Truth is not relative. When you miss telling the truth- you are speaking falsely and you are a liar.
In the same way you are fooled by Islam. Mohammed plagiarized from the already-extant religions of Judaism and Christianity. If you have any ability to think independently- consider your faith may be not "too far from the truth".
Or just continue to ESABATM..
February 26, 2008 12:19 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Thomas Paul Moses Baum,
You are arguing with a mouthpiece, whose job is to recycle what it was fed with/told to do. I cannot see the rationale for the argument with Moody who - for all his honesty can only recite what he knows, without any understanding of what he says. Moody and rationality are poles apart.
I have a theory: I believe that Quran maybe a way by which God/Devil/Fatbird wants the world to end. The Quran contains strictures for bloodbath against those who will disbelieve. What more can that diety want in order to recycle creation again and again ?
February 25, 2008 9:01 PM | Report Offensive Comments
TO MOODY:
You wrote, " He sealed (finalized) the Messengers with Prophet Muhammed and abrogated all previous books with the Qur'an.", seems to me that this god of islam has some problems, considering that he says things for awhile and then changes them or is he just a liar?
You also wrote, "The Belief in Preordainment (Qadar) means to believe that everything — good or bad — happens or takes place according to what Allah has ordained for it. He has created everything in due proportion.", by this statement we have absolutely no FREE WILL, is that correct?
I would like to make a comment about something called PREDESTINATION in the bible, this means that God knows what we will do but it does not mean that we are preprogramed to do it as per PREORDAINMENT in the koran.
Since God knew some would never repent this side of breath, He came up with His Plan which is for the salvation of ALL OF THE PEOPLE that He created, which happens to be ALL OF HUMANITY.
God happens to be a Being of Pure Love and He is a Trinity and God-Incarnate, Jesus of Nazareth, was a Jew, a member of the Chosen People and they are the Chosen People for the simple reason that God chose and formed them.
I have met God, the Trinity, and I have met satan and if you think that God is such an egomaniac that it is more important that you know His Name than how we treat each other then a god such as that is not worthy of any kind of respect much less obedience.
God, the True, Living, Triune, Triumphant God, has a Plan and has had His Plan since before creation and His Plan will come to Fruition.
By the way God is not a He, a She or an It but, and I repeat myself, a Being of PURE LOVE.
We will all be judged since we have FREE WILL, but guess what God's Plan contains a total and unconditional pardon and that will be compliments of God Himself since He won the keys to hell and death by enduring both and winning the keys to both.
If PREORDAINMENT was true, how could anyone be rewarded or punished for something that they had no control over?
Like I have said before, I do not hold it against Mohammad that he was deceived and I have also said that God is a searcher of hearts and minds not of religious affiliations or lack thereof.
Also, that it is important what you do and WHY you do it and what you know.
Take care, see you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.
Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.
February 25, 2008 5:49 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The Arch-bishop of Canterbury was very naive in making his suggestion. If laws and constitutions are to meet religious tests, we are turning over a legal system which is designed to respect the rights of all, in favor of the particular religious maxims of various religions. Would those that posited this question suggest that Catholic principles govern our laws, thus forbidding abortion? How about Jewish law? That would close down the pig farms, and end ham and bacon for many of us. Mormon law? Close down Starbucks and liquor stores. Would Moslem law permitting polygamy be included? Why pick some laws and exclude others? This is a totally crazy suggestion, encouraging the "Taliban" ideologues of every denomination to push, lobby, buycott, maybe even get violent, in promoting their all or nothing positions. Politics is gray, not black and white. Religions generally are all or nothing, and do not respect middle grounds.
February 25, 2008 5:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Hey Anonymous -
Were you mad when you found out I wasnt too far from the truth? :-)
I love it when I am right...
"The divorce rate in America for first marriage, vs second or third marriage 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second and 74% of third marriages end in divorce."
Did I hurt your feelings when I said that? Were you upset? Did you cry? How sorry do you think I am at this point?
Idiot.
February 25, 2008 5:37 PM | Report Offensive Comments
AN INFLUENTIAL GROUP OF MUSLIM THEOLOGIANS IN INDIA HAVE DENOUNCED TERRORISM, SAYING IT IS COMPLETELY AGAINST THE TEACHINGS OF ISLAM.
Monday February 25, 2008
Their statements were made at a meeting held at the Darul-Uloom Deoband, a powerful Islamic school more than 150 years old.
Scholars from 6,000 religious schools attended the meeting.
The Deoband school promotes a brand of Islam which some say was an inspiration to Afghanistan's Taleban.
The school has always denied this.
Opening the conclave the head of the Deoband school, Maulana Marghoobur Rahman, described terrorism as a thoughtless act which is against the teachings of Islam.
He said that the killing of innocent people of any religion was prohibited by the Koran, the Muslim Holy Book.
Many participants said they want to change popular perceptions in which, they say, terrorism is being equated with Islam.
Others said that while Muslims should not be harassed because of anti-terrorism operations, the community also needed to be more introspective.
Many Islamic seminaries across India have come under the scanner of the federal authorities in the wake of recent terror attacks.
Set up in 1866 in north India the Darul-Uloom Deoband is the most influential Muslim religious school in south and south-east Asia.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7262283.stm
February 25, 2008 5:09 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Mischka says-
"Every marriage is a risk. ***65% of all marriages in America end up in divorce*** What is your point Scumbag?"
Everyone reading here-
Please make a mental note that
MISCHKA IS A LIAR. SHE"S JUST MAKING THINGS UP TO DEFEND ISLAM INSTEAD OF SEARCHING FOR THE TRUTH. DON"T TRUST ANYTHING SHE CLAIMS POSTS. TRUTH MATTERS. CHECK IT OUT:
Here's the truth-
"What is the current divorce rate in America?
It is frequently reported that the divorce rate in America is 50%. This data is not accurately correct, however, it is reasonably close to actual. The Americans for Divorce Reform estimates that "Probably, 40 or possibly even 50 percent of marriages will end in divorce if current trends continue.", which is actually a projection.
The divorce rate in America for first marriage, vs second or third marriage 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second and 74% of third marriages end in divorce."
http://www.divorcerate.org/
February 25, 2008 5:04 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Jihadis will assuredly target the one hundred fifty years plus Dar-ul-Uloom Seminary in Deoband, India, for their attempts to delink Islam from violence. The Times of India (ToI) link is:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Muslim_clerics_declare_terror_un-slamic/articleshow/2813375.cms
Does anybody fathom to probe, why, if there are isolated groups of Muslims who want to promote peace, communal harmony, their efforts fail or are doomed to failure like that of the reformer Sir Syed Ahmed Khan ? Someone wrote that Ahmed Deedat and Zakir Naik are trying the same. But, why are their efforts failing or has produced no impact with the Jihadists ?
I believe that Islam being violent and intolerant to its core, presents unsurmountable obstacles for those sane and rational Muslims who want to delink Islam and present a progressive plan for its superior evolution. It is the problem with the dogma: Quranic strictures such as Quran[009:029],[004:095],[009:005],[047:004],[005:033] etc., and their likes that pose the severest of all headaches.
February 25, 2008 3:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Deb and Suzanne -
Here in America - IF you even live in America - you would know that you have dog lovers and people who just dont like dogs. Not everyone is a dog lover you buffoon. My advice to you is seriously consider who you are TRYING to ally yourself with - a murderer. A gender-troubled moron who wants to kill Muslims simply because we are Muslim. He deserves to be called every low and vile word in every language.
Deb - grow up would you? Are you a man? Do you have anything close to courage? Or are these sniveling little asinine come backs all you have got?
"Well, Suzanne has the best description for you and your ilk: PIG (P-erverted I-slamic G-rowth)."
I dont want to post my description for you here. It might reduce you to tears to know what you really are worth.
"However, you don't sound credulous. You must have problems in your marriage. This gorilla bragging shows such. If your marriage was happy you wouldn't be fishing around for jollies on this and other forums."
ON the contrary - YOU were the one who brought up my marriage for some odd reason. It seems a little odd that you would attack my marriage out of the blue like that. But then again - it doesnt - you are after all a vile and putrid thing and that is to be expected from you. A single, lonely, jealous and depressed little man who has never had a steady relationship and never will. Did you just get dumped for the millionth time? Are you SO pathetic now that you need to go out of your way to find a problem with other people? Lowly, miserable coward. Anyway, you see me on these boards if Im at work or working at home. Thats it. Its you who is posting here every five minutes and shows the world you have NO life - forget a social circle. People hate you and you know it. Scumbag.
"Your marriage could get "talaqued" - its that unstable. That's a very common Muslim phenomenon. All would it take is to up the ante."
Is that supposed to scare me? It doesnt. Talaq means divorce. Every marriage is a risk. ***65% of all marriages in America end up in divorce*** What is your point Scumbag? Are you not allowed to get a divorce if you want in your cult? Why would you want to force someone to be with you who doesnt? If there is a day when he doesnt want to be married - let him go. If there is a day when I dont want to be married to him - I will go. I would ask for a Khula. Simple. Why would you drag it out and make life worse for both people??? Who cares for that kind of a life?
I am assuming you are with someone who doesnt want to be with you (surprise surprise)...let them go. You will be much happier Deb.
OH and my sympathies for your break-up...its pretty obvious that you have just been dumped...
KUDOS to the man/woman who is better off!
February 25, 2008 12:05 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Stupidity of US foreign policy is always the main reason for disaster. US has gleefully alloweed diplomatic recognition of Kosovo. Well, if US Muslims where they have ghettoed, and are in numerical majority claim a Muslim majority state will US Govt. keep quiet ? By recognizing Kosovo as an independent country, implicitly, US has recognized the supremacy if the Shariah laws. This can work against all other secular countries and including USA. Already Kashniri separatists are emboldened and empowered by the Kosovo liberation. The full news is at the Pakistan's Daily Dawn Newspaper:
http://www.dawn.com/2008/02/24/top9.htm
February 24, 2008 10:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
The recent elections in Pakistan, a hotbed of radical Islam, elects Nawaz Sharif and Asif Ali Zardari parties. However, according to ToI these parties have support from the militant groups and does not exercise tight control.
The Indian sleuths (dhotiwallahs) fear that now the intelligence is that these groups work in tandem and often cooperate. This could destabilize the subcontinent, and its ripples may spread globally. USA can get affected, due to its significant FDI and BPO in the IT sector in India.
The bad news is available at the ToI link:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Joint_ops_by_Pak_terror_groups_worry_India/articleshow/2810526.cms
February 24, 2008 7:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments
This Koranic fascination of micro-managing the lives of Muslims in order to make them so pious and holy is not working because it is based on a stupid concept. There is no way, anyone can legislate morality. Forget the Koran, even God cannot (rather does not) interfere in the exercise of our free will. The only caveat is--exercise your free will but be prepared to reap the consequences of your actions. This whole cycle --free will, action, consequences or karma is on autopilot. And this climb out of the moral rut, like our inner struggle to rectify our human flaws, is a slow painstaking process. The sharia is not only barbaric, it is a based on a stupid concept. We as human beings must do everything in our power to eradicate sharia from every civilized nation on earth.
February 24, 2008 11:50 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Suzanne,
Thank you for your support and kind words. Well, all I need to state is that I am not offended or troubled by such scurrilous epithets. I know what I am supposed to do, and hence I do not suffer from the problem of fragile identity. Many however do. They get sensitive and offended. But, with such barbaric attitudes, one needs to be resolute. That's what I am trying to hold onto.
Anyway, I would suggest that if you really want to know about Islam [Quran, Sunnah, Shariah, Jihad, Hadiths] a very authentic source on the Internet is the University of Southern California Muslim Student Association website.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/
This site contains a very good compilation, but of the Jammat-i-Islam variety. It does not whitewash Islamic interpretatioins in order to make Islam look nice. What Muslims here and on similar blogs try to do is to paint a very nice picture of Islam, which just contradicts with what we read and hear in the major news outlets.
In addition I would recommend the following website of Dr. Ali Sina
http://www.faithfreedom.org/
The above two links have been cited by Sam Harris in his bestseller book: END OF REASON ...
Chapter 4 of Sam Harris's book makes it clear why Islam can be reckoned as a barbaric religion.
Thanks again to you and others for support.
February 23, 2008 8:48 PM | Report Offensive Comments
"You really think MY married life could be screwed up? If you knew me and my husband - you would know how wrong you are. We are an awesome couple and will stay that way. Call me egotistical - but I got one of the few good ones and I am happy. OH and now you have him laughing at you too!"
:-). Well, Suzanne has the best description for you and your ilk: PIG (P-erverted I-slamic G-rowth). However, you don't sound credulous. You must have problems in your marriage. This gorilla bragging shows such. If your marriage was happy you wouldn't be fishing around for jollies on this and other forums. Your marriage could get "talaqued" - its that unstable. That's a very common Muslim phenomenon. All would it take is to up the ante.
"Anyway, you can take your jealousy and put it where the sun doesnt shine...lol"
Yes, Quran was first revealed in a place where the sun didn't shine. You have shown affinity for such dark places and you may have and seen them in plenty. What's more ?
Don't mess around; you might get caught and repent.
Well, guess what ? This is my last rebuttal to your infantile chest-beating.
Get a life !
February 23, 2008 8:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Deb-
Thank you for your posts here. They are very informative to me and the other people who read here who have very little knowledge of Islam or Muslims.
I am sorry you have to take so much verbal abuse from the Muslim posters. Just consider it an affirmation that you have scored points by revealing the truth and they have no way to counter but call names.
I know I speak for dog lovers when I say Mischka calling you a dog is over the top. In America- we love our dogs. I own two and they are the most loving and loyal companions. So she has mistakenly given you a high compliment- that all American dog owners will recognise.
Thank you again.
February 23, 2008 8:31 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Mischka-
I had read on this board how Muhammed had a hatred for dogs. Dog owners can be arrested in Saudi for walking their dogs (sharia law again).
Your post affirms that "dog hatred". As a person born in America- you should know that will never sell here. We are animal lovers in general and dog lovers in particular.
How ugly and hateful of you to use such degrading language against a human and dogs. You only degrade yourself to the reader's here.
I would close by saying-
YOU ARE A PIG
But pigs are actually loving and intelligent- and you obviously aren't..
February 23, 2008 8:07 PM | Report Offensive Comments
About Deb -
A bitter, racist and bigoted non-Muslim whose knowledge is limited to his/her own imagination - is not a good source of information for anyone. His loyalties are to NO ONE. He lives in the slums and still dreams of India.
You people want to know about Sharia - look at the Qur'an. The Qur'an is the holy book of the Muslims. My question is that if I have a book that I was given as my 411 for all my questions...what good is it if I am still asking other people for answers?
You are the one in need of help Deblubber - you like that dont you? Sicko.
Anyway - the idiot wrote below -
"Mischka, your ignorance has been exposed. I would speculate that your married life, you stated you are married, is indeed screwed up. Get some medical help."
Hmmm...this is coming from a gender confused terrorist who is trying to kill American Muslims. LOL! This nasty little pervert is a joke! WHATS WORSE IS THAT HE IS NOT EVEN AN AMERICAN!!!!!!!
You really think MY married life could be screwed up? If you knew me and my husband - you would know how wrong you are. We are an awesome couple and will stay that way. Call me egotistical - but I got one of the few good ones and I am happy. OH and now you have him laughing at you too! Anyway, you can take your jealousy and put it where the sun doesnt shine...lol
My ignorant, ugly, mangy little mutt - you are the one in need of medical help and you KNOW it all too well. You are jealous. Thats all it is. You are probably as lonely as the rest of your kin at the dog pound. I suggest you join them and even though you sound VERY desperate for attention - try not to reproduce. It would be a curse on humanity to see what comes out of you. Nothing but more ugly mangy rats to deal with and find homes for...we are having a hard enough time finding a place for you. We certainly dont want to be responsible for your dirty litter.
God rid us of this filthy dog.
February 23, 2008 7:29 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Dave provides an opportunity to refute misconceptions.
since you find islam ridiculous dave- it is unlikely that you would go to an islamic arbiter for any reconciliation.
so, it would not affect your life if others chose to utilize some service of their own volition.
since they deal primarily with social issues- bodily emissions, while distasteful -would not fall under any category one could think of.
your statement-
"This entire legislative approach to morality is dumb. I had a running debate with Victoria sometime back. She does not see it either. And neither do any Muslims for that matter--the simple fact that you cannot attain morality or character through legislation."
possibly you have forgotten what our debate was about- but leglislating morality (or my assumed {incorrectly} support of such a concept) was not one of our discussions-
however- since it's pertinent to this topic-
if muslims decide to use mediators from a sharia standpoint, one would assume that they do have some degree of self determination in deciding their own fates- (as do all americans)
so, again- it would not be affecting you, nor really your decision to control what others choose to do, or in what fashion they choose to do it.
but it is all moot anyway- as the discussion is about england- and to my knowledge- no one has petitioned the american legal system for such inclusion at this point.
but it's an emotionally evocative word for some, especially when paired with the USA- so i assume quinn and meacham wanted to create some conflict as that seems to be their modus operandi as journalsits.
you are most welcome wiccan-
peace all
February 23, 2008 3:57 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Harold:
You comment on farting and the Sharia is an excellent one. The Sharia may actually condemn someone to be stoned because of farting. I would not be surprised.
I find the entire Muslim/Koranic philosophy to be so ridiculous as be worthy of the butt of jokes world-wide. But the skins of mullahs are so think they don't get it.
This entire legislative approach to morality is dumb. I had a running debate with Victoria sometime back. She does not see it either. And neither do any Muslims for that matter--the simple fact that you cannot attain morality or character through legislation. Do this, don't do this (otherwise you will be flogged or stoned or your hand will be cut off). Dumb philosophy leading to a dumb outlook on life. This "God" through a supposedly religious book is attempting to control peoples' lives and make them more holy. But this philosophy is exactly having the opposite effect--making Muslims more bloody-minded against the whole world, more and more narrow-minded and insular, and more and more "holier-then-thou" in their attitude. These fellows think they are so holy that the rest of world in their view is corrupt and degenerate.
But you will never find a more intolerant people like Muslims, a people who have an extremely poor track record of granting non-Muslims freedom of their right to practice religion. Muslims tend to be defenders of everything Muslim and Islamic, and vehemently opposed to anyone trying to capture "heroes" like Osama and the Taliban. What a contradition.
And none of them question anything. The entire Koran is God's word it seems. It is a hopeless situation even if sharia turns out to be somewhat tolerant of farting.
February 23, 2008 2:33 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Victoria,
Thank you for your reply and your kind words. I thought there might be a middle way through the extremes posted here. Blessed Be.
Moody,
Your use of "homo" defames yourself, not the people you hurl it at. There are better ways to argue your point.
February 23, 2008 2:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
"Sharia is NOT *Islamic Law*. If it were a law - it would come straight from the Qur'an. Since it doesnt, it isnt."
Well, that's a misleading baloney. The USC-MSA has the following information:
" The Arabic word shari`ah refers to the laws and way of life prescribed by Allah (SWT) for his servants. The shari`ah deals with the ideology and faith; behavior and manners; and practical daily matters. "To each among you, we have prescribed a law and a clear way. (Qur 'an 5:48) Shari`ah includes the Qur'an and the sunnah of the Prophet (saas)."
This quote from USC-MSA, who I think is more credible than your blabber, directly contradicts what you haved written about Shariah not being from Quran. Shariah is not a revelation, but it is a legal system and is "derived" from the Quran. Hence it is Allah's law, and by that extension it is divine.
The link is:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/law/shariahintroduction.html
Mischka, your ignorance has been exposed. I would speculate that your married life, you stated you are married, is indeed screwed up. Get some medical help.
February 23, 2008 2:00 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Do they have a penalty for farting too. I think stoning would probably be appropriate depending on how long the sound lasts.
February 23, 2008 11:28 AM | Report Offensive Comments
SAUDI MEN ARRESTED FOR "FLIRTING"
ANY RELATIONS BETWEEN THE SEXES OUTSIDE MARRIAGE IS AGAINST THE LAW:
Prosecutors in Saudi Arabia have begun investigating 57 young men who were arrested on Thursday for flirting with girls at shopping centres in Mecca.
The men are accused of wearing indecent clothes, playing loud music and dancing in order to attract the attention of girls, the Saudi Gazette reported.
They were arrested following a request of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice.
The mutaween enforce Saudi Arabia's conservative brand of Islam, Wahhabism.
Earlier in the month, the authorities enforced a ban on the sale of red roses and other symbols used in many countries to mark Valentine's Day.
The ban is partly because of the connection with a "pagan Christian holiday", and also because the festival itself is seen as encouraging relations between the sexes outside marriage, punishable by law in the kingdom.
The Prosecution and Investigation Commission said it had received reports of such "bad" behaviour by 57 young men at a number of shopping centres in the holy city of Mecca, the Saudi Gazette said.
The guardians of some of the men defended their actions, however, saying they would regularly get together on the weekend to have fun without ever violating laws governing the segregation of the sexes, it added.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7260314.stm
February 23, 2008 7:04 AM | Report Offensive Comments
FROM THE VANCOUVER SUN:
Re: It's possible that Shariah courts have a place here-
Douglas Todd writes that the belief that a multicultural society is socially divisive verges on being "shocking." Shocking perhaps to him, but not to me, and I would suggest, to many other Canadians, very few of whom are "hysterical," "Islamophobic" or "dumbed down."
I would suggest that we are concerned that multiculturalism is being used as a cloak to cover the nurturing of decidedly un-Canadian values as embodied in Shariah law.
The Archbishop of Canterbury ignited a firestorm by saying Shariah law would likely be adopted in Britain.
It is true that other religions have had their own courts for many years, but what Todd ignores is that those religions are content for their judicial decisions to be wholly within and subservient to Canadian law. The people advocating Shariah have no interest in democracy or civilization. Their beliefs are rooted in the primitive misogyny of the seventh century. Any official recognition of Shariah law would be viewed by its advocates as a step towards their ultimate goal of legal ascendency over us all.
That nightmare scenario is only "inevitable" if the views of people like Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, and Todd are given any credence. Hopefully, in this instance, they will receive the disdain and rejection they deserve.
John Plummer
New Westminster
February 23, 2008 6:47 AM | Report Offensive Comments
Deb Chat,
From your reaction to my post regarding GAYS, I realised that you are too
"yellow slimy mid but stuck HOMO brain", like A. Kafir and many others.
NO WONDER WHY you keep on vomiting s.h.i.t. with out any try to reason or communication.
Afraid of Islamic Law, BY CHOICE HOMO'S(medically proven)???
Islam doesn't permit staright out of marriage adultary or fornication,FORGET ABOUT homo diseased filthy s.h.i.t. bashing.
February 23, 2008 5:07 AM | Report Offensive Comments
All possible kind of questions asked by non Muslims about Islam answered on below web sites:
ALL MISCONCEPTIONS AND FALSE MEANINGS ARE ANSWERED:
1-www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm
2-www.islamalways.com/
3-www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
4-www.jamaat.net/deedat.htm
5-www.islamtomorrow.com/yusuf.asp
6-www.justaskislam.com/index.php (on this site you will get answer of every question you have and ask with in a day or by next day - IT’S A CHALLENGE)
February 23, 2008 4:48 AM | Report Offensive Comments
No need to find, waste time or energy!
JUST ASK ISLAM at below web site.
And you will get answer of EVERY question you have.
DON'T FALL PRAY TO THE MISCONCEPTIONS AND FALSE TWISTED EVIL MEANINGS:
1-www.justaskislam.com/index.php?option=com_joomlaboard&Itemid=26
Every question you will get answer same day or maximum by next day!
February 23, 2008 4:41 AM | Report Offensive Comments
hi wiccan-
ive stayed away for the very reason you state-
good question-
1) because you are a reasonable poster here- never descending to ugliness and always with a very understanding nature-
so ill assume your intentions are very good, as theyve been so in the past-
(also, im hanafi (an islamic school of thought) and am personally compelled to always look for the good intentions in peoples hearts first-
2) it brings to light an understanding (for me) of why people are so opposed to sharia, without knowing what it is.
first-
the question was based on a response to the archbishop in england- about a model of sharia law there-
quinn and meachem threw in the US aspect- i guess to generate conflict which is a tactic they seem to fall back on mostly in their questions-
personally- i find it kind of intellectually lazy- but it keeps people coming to their blog so i guess it works for their careers-
(ive suggested many questions geared more to conflict resolution myself- but it is not as sensational- also it requirres a great deal more thought and intelligence and effort)
the assumption is that muslims find sharia superior to or preferable to civil law.
current laws are not superceded by te model in britain-
no one that i know has suggested an overthrow of- or replacement of our justice system except a few nuts in the extreme and a few nutty accusers in the other extreme-
lets forget about them for now-
theyre positions are boringly predictable.
it is the implementation of sharia as a tool for mediation and arbitration
one example (please, im no scholar- this is simply an idea i had) i can give is that in islamic business dealings- 2 witnesses are required who can be recalled to verify all contracts and transactions.
this is how i operate al the time, and its a bother- and even most muslims dont want to go to the trouble-
but even being awareof the witnesses seems to keep deals straighter- as they encourage accountibility.
imagine if this were adopted in all business deals in america- all of the nuisance litigation that would disappear-
for family law and social matters- its hard to imagine an american judge demanding that a husband and wife go to reconciliation arbitration before deciding on the finality of their divorce, or ordering a husband to pay up his entire maher (a gift to the wife by the husband, agreed upon contractually at the entrance to the marriage, and without which the marriage is not considered valid)
but alot of guy dont pay in a timely fashion-
also the husband has to support the wife for 3 months after the divorce is finalized to help her get on her feet-
yes- it does seem kind of unfair from the man's perspective, doesnt it?
criminal law isnt an issue, as it is not generally decided by islamic courts-
the setup in england is that if the law of england decides a decision made is unreasonable- it is not to be followed.
but the big difference is that these cases are voluntarily entered upon by the parties involved.
and are a finer tool for arbitrating decision where some of the subtleties may not be recognized or even known by civil courts.
the jewish people have utuilized the BETH DIN system in britain for some time.
these decisions do not overule, supercede or have any primacy or take precedence over existing laws.
i think its pretty important that is understood.
actually- since the archbishop has made his comment-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"There's a place for finding what would be a constructive accommodation with some aspects of Muslim law, as we already do with some other aspects of religious law," he said. "What we don't want either, is I think, a stand-off, where the law squares up to people's religious consciences."
Reasonable and considered sentiments, until Williams added that some aspect of sharia in Britain "seems unavoidable." For the tabloids and the Anglican church, those were fighting words. Calls have been made for the Archbishop to resign from within and outside the Church (he has refused) and the story has remained front page news ever since. Considering the latent (and occasionally explicit) hostility, it is ironic that British Muslims didn't bring this subject up in the first place.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
muslim blogs, which i frequent- are all abuzz with it- and ive learned alot about it when i had no real knowledge or interest before-
so- when people hear the word 'sharia'- they automatically conjure up images of judge, jury and executioner all rolled into one.
what has been played out in england has been marriage, divorce, and business decisions-
the criminal cases deferred to the criminal courts-
well- i hope my poor attmept has brouhgt a bit of sense-
most muslims in britain (for example, and canada too) are actually more vociferous in their condemnation of and disassociation with sharia law than many in the general non-muslim population-
just being a muslim, on these boards-
is reason enough to be suspect here-
but, i amsk what i amsk and that's all that i amsk.
peace of the god to you and blessed be your path
February 22, 2008 11:51 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Reader -
Again with the stupidity - I am losing patience and dont have the kind of time you people do. I DO have a life and repeating myself is a waste of my time.
Sharia is NOT *Islamic Law*. If it were a law - it would come straight from the Qur'an. Since it doesnt, it isnt. To put it bluntly - governments following their interpretations of Sharia are NOT necessarily Islamic. Its a system, not a law. Just like you have systems in America and all over the world. If you are going to argue with me - get it right.
"Insolent= Presumptuous and insulting in manner or speech; arrogant. Audaciously rude or disrespectful; impertinent."
I am arrogant, insulting, audaciously rude, disrespectful to murderers and terrorists like Deborah Chatterjee and religious bigots who are out to hurt Muslims. My family and friends consist of Muslims and non-Muslims. You want me to smile while you plot of ways to hurt me??? Deb is planning his own version of the Holocaust in America and you want to join him. Is that supposed to make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside???
"Impudent= Characterized by offensive boldness; insolent or impertinent. Shameless.Obsolete. Immodest."
I am completely shameless in insulting a murderer and terrorist like Deb. I am also perfectly willing to be as offensive as posssible to him.
According to Deb - hate speech is okay - thats why I love giving him a dose of his medicine. You should ask that nutcase and see all of his posts under Islam and Violence...how hateful he is. I started out being very nice to him but soon found it to be useless because he is a mentally ill individual. I THINK he also admitted it on one of the posts - you should check that out too.
He is beneath decent people and after he called for the killing of American Muslims - he became nothing more then a perverted and grotesque looking mutt.
February 22, 2008 11:49 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Hate Crimes are against the law in America.
Hatred is the law under Sharia- and if you have practices or beliefs that Muslims are taught to hate- you will pay with your life.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/article3432260.ece
February 22, 2008 7:21 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Wiccan wrote:
"I have read all these posts, and it's all people screaming past each other, not talking, not communicating. I was hoping to find out why some people would prefer Sharia to our civil and secular laws. That's all, and not one post has addressed this. But if I'm patient, maybe someone will."
Try reading the extreme (literalist/fundamengtalist) interpretation of Shariah/Islam in the two following books:
1. Maulana Syed Abul Ala Maududi, JIHAD IN ISLAM.
2. Sayyid Qutb, MILESTONES.
These should not be hard to locate in the local public library nearest you. These two concern the non-Muslims most.
February 22, 2008 7:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Reader, I am well aware of the abuses Saudi Arabia commits in the name of Islam, and I do not condone them, because these abuses violate the law "Harm None". But I was asking what elements of Sharia law would be an improvement on Western civil law. I have read all these posts, and it's all people screaming past each other, not talking, not communicating. I was hoping to find out why some people would prefer Sharia to our civil and secular laws. That's all, and not one post has addressed this. But if I'm patient, maybe someone will.
February 22, 2008 6:53 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Smarty mouth means
INSOLENT and IMPUDENT
ie: "if you dont like what I have to say - leave."
Insolent= Presumptuous and insulting in manner or speech; arrogant. Audaciously rude or disrespectful; impertinent.
Impudent= Characterized by offensive boldness; insolent or impertinent. Shameless.Obsolete. Immodest.
Mischka is an example of the confusion and contempt that the dictates of Islam breeds.
February 22, 2008 6:46 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Wiccan -
I have never advocated Sharia law on these blogs ever. Why? Because a VERY small part of Sharia is actually based on the Quran.
Sharia can be considered a system but I dont think its really Islamic law because more then half of it does not come from the Quran and that is what a law would be based on.
Also Reader -
If you think you have found a kindred spirit in Deb - dont be a fool. He could just as easily turn on you as easily he turned on his own in India.
Deborah - lol
Do what you have to do Debby - you wont get anywhere. How do I know this? Because your arguments are warmongering and will never see light. :-) Americans are sick of war, anyone who advocates war and absolutely DONE with religious terrorism. Ask the people who are ACTUALLY fighting these wars and then go off with your nasty mouth about persecuting Muslims.
Reader - you are right - if Wiccan was in Saudi - he would probably have to deal with a lot of hatred. Im not so sure about the death sentence just because he is not a Muslim. But I know life would be hard for him. Muslim countries are FAR from perfect and I have never defended their harsh or extreme actions.
You seem to think that I am defending Saudi Arabia and terrorism here. That would be a mistake. I have tried to clarify misconceptions about Muslims and Islam...things that people "think" are true but are not. I have not advocated Sharia law here - ever.
That is why Deb seems to be such a nuisance and a waste of life. He seems to be desperately looking for friends - never to find any.
February 22, 2008 6:45 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Actually, Reader, I agree with your position that it is pointless to argue on this thread. Muslims, who post here seem to have this dysfunctional 'rectal-cranial inversion'. In your words "...got a smarty mouth and her butt on her shoulders.", which is similar to how I have characterized.
In reality we (Shariah haters) should cohesively work on the excellent forums such as WP, to advance the compelling argument, with facts, that ISLAM IS A BARBARIC RELIGION.
February 22, 2008 6:16 PM | Report Offensive Comments
I hope Wiccan knows- if she/he were in Saudi and was caught practicing the Wiccan beliefs- she/he would be tried by the religious police and sentenced to death..
February 22, 2008 6:13 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Reader -
"If Mischka wants to advocate for Shariah- she should go live for several years in a country under Shariah law. Then she will be qualified to speak to us about the glories of Islamic law.
She seems to be a young person (at least in thought) and raised in the USA by Muslim parents. She's got a smarty mouth and her butt on her shoulders. But the other Muslim posters seem to be the same, so maybe that's the fallback for having no argument."
Where do you see in my posts that I am advocating Sharia law?
If you are going to post - at least prove to us that you have more then a 3rd grader's wits.
There arent many posters here - so why dont you point out who else is a "smarty mouth" (what the heck is that?) since you seem to have all the answers.
Also, if you dont like what I have to say - leave.
February 22, 2008 6:10 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Deb Chatterjee -
Stop acting like the idiot mule you are and get on with your life. Nothing you say makes a difference to anyone. I think we have done our duty by you by letting you into the USA. Now, why cant you behave like a human being and not like a mutt foaming at the mouth all the time??? The least you can do is be respectful towards the citizens that let you in.
This monster wants to have his cake and eat it too. Lets look at Deb's demands from the USA:
He/she wants the USA to grant him entrance into this country.
He/she wants to go to his country to visit and be able to come back here too.
He/she wants to eat the food here, wear the clothes, shop, etc.
He/she wants to be treated just like the citizens of the USA.
He/she is NOT a Christian.
He/she is NOT a Jew.
He/she is NOT a Muslim.
He/she wants to be treated better then any of the above and also wants to slaughter ALL American Muslims in the process.
He/she does not want to respect ANY other law in the Constitution EXCEPT the first amendment because it allows him to vomit as he wishes.
He/she does not wish to respect any of our rights to pursue our lives the way we wish - he wants to put an end to being able to choose to be a Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc.
How? Simple. According to this sick, perverted and black hearted monster - we deport anyone who is Muslim or kill them in cold blood.
These and MUCH more are the demands that immigrants like Deb are making of our government. Now, we have to filter out people according to religion. Isnt this the very foundation of America? Religious freedom?
Yet...here he is...urging us to fight another religion based war when the world has seen enough of it and HE certainly WONT be the one fighting it. It WONT be his son or daughter - it will be OURS.
People like Deb are poisonous and should not only be deported but spend their lives in prison for trying to kill our future. Instead of a solution, this murderer wants more bloodshed.
February 22, 2008 6:00 PM | Report Offensive Comments
If Mischka wants to advocate for Shariah- she should go live for several years in a country under Shariah law. Then she will be qualified to speak to us about the glories of Islamic law.
She seems to be a young person (at least in thought) and raised in the USA by Muslim parents. She's got a smarty mouth and her butt on her shoulders. But the other Muslim posters seem to be the same, so maybe that's the fallback for having no argument.
In other words- she speaks like she has no experience of the dangers of true Islam- like the poor American-raised "Muslim" girl who ran afoul of the Saudi religious police by having the audacity to go out for coffee at Starbucks with a male co-worker. She's on anti-anxiety drugs now and being treated for PTSD. She's lucky she was not beaten. All she really had to do was sign a forced confession. She was naive and it must have made her realise how little she knows of Islam.
Mischka should be thankful she's an American and hope she never has to live under Shariah Law.
February 22, 2008 5:56 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Thank you for your viewpoint, Mr. Chatterjee. But I would really like to read Mischka's response.
February 22, 2008 5:44 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Wiccan wrote:
"What aspects of Sharia law are superior to Western civil law? To you, what is lacking in Western civil law that could be improved by Sharia?"
Nothing is lacking in Western civil law. If you are truly a "Wiccan" (pagan) you would be slaughtered in Islamic laws, as the whole objective of Islam is to eliminate paganism, and if necessary by most bestial/brutal methods. So, you (if you are of true Wiccan beliefs and practices) would be a casualty if Sharia flourishes in USA/West. From Sharia's point of view Western civil laws are too lax allowing paganism (idol worship etc. and Wiccan faiths) to get equal respect as that of other faiths. Islam boils with hatred for such permissiveness in Western civil/secular laws.
Declare that ISLAM IS A BARBARIC RELIGION.
February 22, 2008 5:15 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Mischka, perhaps you are the one who can answer this. What aspects of Sharia law are superior to Western civil law? To you, what is lacking in Western civil law that could be improved by Sharia?
I have no axe to grind, and am asking with respect. Thank you for your time.
February 22, 2008 4:34 PM | Report Offensive Comments
Deb -
Coming from you - thats almost funny. You are the supreme EXAMPLE of "pedestrian stupidity". Nut case.
Like I said - majority of us have encountered each other before.
Deb has actually called for the killing of Muslims multiple times on the blogs. Agreeing with this wierdo is like agreeing with OBL. Deb is desperately groping for a friend right now and you seem to be it! Congratulations!
You want me to be civil to someone who wants to shoot my family and friends? I cannot do that. You want me to be nice to someone who is an immigrant but wants to kill other immigrants? I cannot do that.
Ive met this buffoon before by the name of Deb Chatterjee. He is nothing more then an outcast looking for some place he can call home. He has no home and for some odd reason he is territorial over the USA when he is not even an American!
He has called my comments shameful - you should see the disgusting posts this idiot has written.
So YES, when I come across bloodthirsty hounds like Deb - I WILL lash out at him. When I come across a warmongering terrorist like Deb - I WILL retalia