Readers’ Responses to Our Question (265)

Who has time for this Internet foolishness?

Christians, if you are truly follwers of Jesus, get off the Internet and go find some poor people to feed.

Pagans, tear yourself away from the electronic device and go hug a tree!

As for the rest of you, surely there is something better to do. That's all I have to say about this page.

God promises to unite His people. How? By His word. He has not created false religions. They have come from not following the word God sent to the prophets.
Here are some scriptures needed for correction in all faiths:
** Bible: "if it is not according to the law and the prophets, it is because there is no light in them."

** Qur'an "say, O people of the scripture, you stand on nothing till you observe the Torah, Gospel and what God has sent down to you" "say, I believe in all books God has sent down."

** Qur'an "The religion ordained for you is the religion of Abraham,.. Moses and Jesus (Isa), be not divided therein."

** Bible-Torah (Law of Moses) "You shall not add to the word which I command you, neither shall you diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you." Deut.4:2

** For Hindu and Buddhists, they are to honor all holy books... and live by the law of God.

God foretold a time of great falling away from His word; we have gone through that. He also foretold a restoration of all He told the prophets, that is our choice now. Peace and all protections are tied to obedience to the word of the living God who revealed Himself for us to read and know what He requires of us.

He said not to seek after riches. The goal of life is not employment; it is retirement in a garden paradise which we can create. It overcomes pollution, energy crisis, global warming, diseases, social security problems and immigration disputes.

Pray to turn our life to the retirement lifestyle and that God will lift up the leader He has to bring it to pass. One God has one faith-obedience and faith in His word... a message of unity and peace.

I have a few legitimate questions for any adherent of Islam reading this? On multiple posts I have heard Muslims say that people like Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Magdi Allam are heretics or infidels or what-ever. Are all non-Muslims viewed this way, and these two just vocal enough to draw direct condemnations? Is it just these two because they are speaking out against Islam? Are the people posting it just crazy? Is someone who was once a Muslim and then converted worse than someone who never was? This is honest inquiry, not an attack.

I have a few legitimate questions for any adherent of Islam reading this? On multiple posts I have heard Muslims say that people like Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Magdi Allam are heretics or infidels or what-ever. Are all non-Muslims viewed this way, and these two just vocal enough to draw direct condemnations? Is it just these two because they are speaking out against Islam? Are the people posting it just crazy? Is someone who was once a Muslim and then converted worse than someone who never was? This is honest inquiry, not an attack.

I have a few legitimate questions for any adherent of Islam reading this? On multiple posts I have heard Muslims say that people like Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Magdi Allam are heretics or infidels or what-ever. Are all non-Muslims viewed this way, and these two just vocal enough to draw direct condemnations? Is it just these two because they are speaking out against Islam? Are the people posting it just crazy? Is someone who was once a Muslim and then converted worse than someone who never was? This is honest inquiry, not an attack.

Christie, @ March 20, 2008 8:23 PM, ou made the right choice by switching.

Choosing your own religion is not only healthy but it puts everyone on equal footing to receive everlasting life.
(John 17:3)
3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

The Pew survey reported that the Catholic Church in America has lost more adherents to other religions. This makes perfect sense. If you accept the Bible as the inspired word of God, it is difficult to remain Catholic. I was raised Catholic and thought the priests were teaching the Bible. When I finally studied the Bible I could plainly see the Church was teaching the doctrines of men based on human philosophy. (the trinity, hell fire, the immortality of the soul, all good people go to heaven, to name a few) These teachings are in direct opposition to what is stated in the Bible. Thus, the Church drew people away from God instead of helping people to develop a personal relationship with God. How personal a relationship can you have with someone when you don’t know or use their name? God has a personal name and the Church doesn’t teach it.
(Psalm 83:18)
18 That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You alone are the Most High over all the earth.

When I read 1Timothy 4:1-3, I asked my priest at that time to explain it to me.
(1 Timothy 4:1-3)1 However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, 2 by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron; 3 forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth.

The priest’s response, “Oh, we don’t use that book so much.”
That was enough for me, I switched.

Merry meet, Cricket.

Lovely - some (pagan) friend sent me here to read, and now I'm hooked. Is this a fairly typical conversation, or can I hope you'll all grow dull and boring and let me break loose?

As a pagan in the middle of a small extension of the Bible Belt, I'm horribly opinionated...

I wish it wasn't so but facts do not lie :
"Paganism is no help; it is a conduit to sexual perversion. Hence, their gods see no discord with the iniquity of human sacrifice or temple prostitutes. Under such a regime, truth becomes relative, subjective, and therefore meaningless since your truths may not be those of another."
___________________________________________

pa·gan:

1. One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
2. One who has no religion.
3. A non-Christian.
4. A hedonist.
5. A Neo-Pagan.
adj.
1. Not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish.
2. Professing no religion; heathen.
3. Neo-Pagan.
TheFreeDictionary by Farlex

--------------------------------------------------

I don't use a dictionary to define my beliefs,. but if you had gone a bit farther and looked up neo-Paganism,you would have found the following:

"Ne·o-Pa·gan·ism (n-pg-nzm)
n.
Any of various religious movements arising chiefly in the United Kingdom and the United States in the late 20th century that combine worship of pagan nature deities, particularly of the earth, with benign witchcraft."

The word Pagan comes from paganus, meaning rural - it originally simply referred to people's worship of local, mainly agricultrual gods. That's me - I believe that the Earth is a living being and that everything from slime molds to geraniums to blue whales to you and I are part of her and therefore part of each other. Because all are interconnected, when you do good for one, you do good for yourself, and when you do ill to one, you do ill to yourself.
I don't do blood sacrifices of any kind, and I don't serve my gods by boffing strangers.

"Paganism is no help; it is a conduit to sexual perversion. Hence, their gods see no discord with the iniquity of human sacrifice or temple prostitutes. Under such a regime, truth becomes relative, subjective, and therefore meaningless since your truths may not be those of another."
___________________________________________

pa·gan:

1. One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
2. One who has no religion.
3. A non-Christian.
4. A hedonist.
5. A Neo-Pagan.
adj.
1. Not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish.
2. Professing no religion; heathen.
3. Neo-Pagan.
TheFreeDictionary by Farlex

2 Corinthians 6:14-17, (14)“Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? (15) What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? (16) What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people." (17) Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord.” NIV

I was taught as a child that the Southern Baptist version of Christianity was the only true faith. As soon as I was old enough to refuse to go to church with my parents, I quit going. I had stopped believing in it long before that.

I encouraged my daughter to explore different spiritual paths and find the one, if any, that felt right to her. She has investigated Christianity from both a Catholic and Protestant perspective, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Wicca, Taoism, and Mahikari, among others. She now considers herslf an agnostic with a Buddhist twist.

Am I disappointed that she does not embrace my Pagan path? Not in the least. I would be disappointed if she tried to follow my path just to please me, when it isn't the right path for her. I'm proud of hr for having the courage to keep searching until she found what was right for her.

"Think DEVIL! Or your slimy brain is already filled with satanic thoughts you cant get rid off. And no space left???"

Your comment was uncalled for. Ironically though I am not bothered by your nonsense. I do not believe in the alah and satan cannot touch me because I have a brother that sticks closer to me then any friend.

-Satan (Personal name : Iblees) is real.
-He (they are) is from the race of Gin’s or Ginni. And humans who obey them also called Satans.
-Made of fire, like us humans are made of water and earth.
-Was made the leader of the Angels for his obedience and worship.
-Was punished for his DISOBEDIENCE & AROGANCE. And granted life until Judgment Day.

(Reminder to Christians who disobey and break one law will not enter the kingdom of Heavens; accept only by the Mercy of Most Merciful and Forgiving God (Allah in Arabic). But with all your sins “through out your life you have to PROVE CONTINUOUSLY” that you are inclined towards OBEYING & REPENTING TO GOD for every sin you do due to obeying Satan becoming under his trap). As human nature shows that you keep practicing what you want to master, e.g., sports, business, EVIL DEEDS / DISOBEDIENCE OR VIRTUE / GOOD / OBEDIENCE OF GOOD DEEDS.

***-The HEAVIEST ON SATAN IS PROSTRATION.***
BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT HE REFUSED TO DO.

***AND THAT IS WHAT EVERY APOSTLE (from Adam to Noah, Abraham to Moses, **JESUS** and Mohammed (P.B.U.T.)) OF GOD HAS DONE.****PROSTRATED IN FRONT OF THE ONLY GOD*** CAN ANY CHRISTIAN EVERY LIVED AND LIVING DENY IT THAT JESUS USE TO PROSTRATE WHILE PRAYING TO HIS GOD???????????????????????

***BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE MOST FAVOURITE WORSHIP OF GOD OF ALL CREATIONS (ALLAH IN ARABIC) IS. ***

NOW THE SECRET:

On every sin repent through PROSTRATION (Sajud – Sajdha - 2 Nawafil of forgiveness) other than compulsory prostrations in a day and ***that will hurt the Satan so bad*** that he will give up making you do the same sin, may be other but not the same. But you need to prostrate in front of THE ONLY GOD.
BECAUSE THE **ONLY UNFORGIVEABLE SIN** IS “SHIRK” CALLING / WORSHIPING SOMEBODY ELSE AS GOD WHICH IS USELESS BECAUSE YOU ARE PROSTRATING TO SOMEBODY ELSE AND NOT THE “ONE” THE “CREATOR” THE “SUSTAINER” THE “MOST MERCIFUL” THE “MOST FORGIVING” THE “ONLY” WORTHY OF PROSTRATION.

Now for your information:
-Humans can see Gins or Jinni’s (not everyone). Question is HOW?
-Jinni’s are also believers and non-believers (partners of satan like us humans).
-Gin’s have different abilities than human, e.g., they can reach from one place to another in less than a blink of an eye therefore you can say THEY CAN SEE AND KNOW THINGS that are not possible for humans. They have long life (not every one); therefore some are even from the age of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH), Jesus (A.S.) and even before like satan himself one of the oldest.

- Some of you must have experienced the humans whose bodies are OCCUPIED by some external force. You call it exorcism. Yes this is what non believing satan jinn’s some times also do which is VERY VISUAL other than there regular daily mischief’s with humans like interfering in your thoughts and decisions effecting your daily life making it sinful and making you humans one of the satans.

- Now, I also have some experience of persons with exorcism CURRED by the “Mufti” level of Higher degree in Islam. The one who can give “Fatwah” against any act whether it is acceptable or not in Islam.

MY EXPERIECNE:

I have been told that there are many different ways of experiencing Gin’s. But the experience I had so many times “at different places with that Mufti” is as follows:

At different occasions and different house I have the chance to accompany the Mufti due to one of my friend, at the place of PRESENCE an external force affecting a human body.

The Mufti called “An Innocent Child sinless” age 5 to 8 mostly of the house, if not then asked to bring any of the relatives. Family members and we all are present there at different occasions. ( Mufti told that a sinless adult if not then a child is needed to help, because only they can see certain things other than him).

The sinless person sits in front of the Mufti along with the affected one, if possible otherwise not necessary. Then the Mufti asked the sinless person to close his/her eyes and do not open until he tell them. Then at every different occasion he read some verses and blows at the face of the sinless person sitting in his front. After that every time Mufti started asking questions to that sinless person:
-With closed eyes do you see someone else than already present in the room.
Reply: Yes, Few people came and sat behind Mufti, some are weird looking different then humans. But every time child never gets afraid even after.
- Mufti always ask there names and send them greetings. (Mufti told us they are his friends and helpers – Gin’s).
- Then Mufti proceeds ask them, if it is possible for them to control and correct or diminish the other presence. The Mufti’s friends – Gin’s were also pious practicing believers, who checked around and on every occasion confirm back through the sinless innocent child that they can do it.
- Then Mufti and his friends finish there job – remove the presence either capture them or make them agree to leave immediately etc.
- Then the Mufti again read some verses and blows at the face of the sin less person and asked him/her to open there eyes.

Results are every time immediate and positive.

CCNL:

Now you have an idea that who is behind the CAUSE and what is the reason of your:
-Constant Headaches due to unnecessary continues thoughts.
-Continuous dissatisfaction and impatience in life making you take impulsive wrong decisions/acts.
-Unnecessary worry of coming time.
-Depression and heavy heart.
-Emptiness in life, not sure what you want from it.

You can heel the body temporarily with the medicine. But can you heel / control the continuous CAUSE, i.e., your thoughts OR in the words you understand your unnecessary worries????????

Think DEVIL! Or your slimy brain is already filled with satanic thoughts you can’t get rid off. And no space left???

J. Osbourn :

The Evolving Doctrine of Mary - The Progress of Error.

What truth you speak.

" Possum :

Anonymous:
"Not so, it is a good thing to expose children to spirituality"

Why?"

Why not??

It creates an awakening to the spiritual senses and helps the child later on in life to discern their choice of spiritual involvement. Keeping in mind the experience is a healthy one and the child is not forced into a cultish type of belief.

Forced is the operative word. Most children want to share the Christian beliefs of the parent; my daughter and I were the only one in our home to be Christians, so it was a joyful experience for both of us as we spent a lot of time together. We went many places together and I was always a part of her spiritual experience and shared in her growth as a youth group leader.

My daughter sings and dances to Christian rock, pop, and rap in the church youth group which reaches out to other youths in the community that tell them about Christ. She is involved in Human Videos, plays that act out scripture that really speak to the heart of other youths.

While we shared that time together it was good. It depends on how the child is introduced to it and how the parent is willing to allow the child to evolve throughout their childhood. At age 16 I presented to my daughter that I was going to look for another church, she had proven herself responsible in all other aspects of life such as school, work, and personal and emotional development so I said to her it is your decision now choose what you want to do, stay with this church or you can come with me to another church, she decided to stay.

I was very proud of her for making the decision to stand on her own belief and supported her always with it.

The Evolving Doctrine of Mary - The Progress of Error

Mary, the mother of Jesus, is one of the most interesting and important women found in Scripture. The Bible describes her magnificent faith from the time she becomes pregnant until she stands at the foot of the cross. Hers is a compelling story.

But Catholicism has developed the story of Mary over the centuries until today she is called sinless, “the gate of heaven,” and the mediatress between God and man. How did she evolve from the very holy woman of the Bible to a sinless, undying female mediator through whom men can approach God? The answer may help us understand how all error progresses.

Let’s start with reality. As a virgin Mary conceived the Christ child through the Holy Spirit, as prophesied 700 years before (Isaiah 7:14). This woman was God’s human instrument for bringing Jesus into the world in the flesh. Her strength is evidenced in the things she endured. Her story needs no mythological additions to make it wondrous, inspiring and faith-building.

But the fact that additions aren’t needed doesn’t prevent men from creating “cunningly devised fables” (2 Peter 1:16; 2 Timothy 4:1-4).

Fable Of The Immaculate Conception
Many presume the term “immaculate conception” refers to the fact Jesus was born without sin. But that is not the case. Catholic doctrine teaches Mary was born without sin. “When we say that Mary was conceived without sin we mean that from the very first moment of her existence she was free from original sin, she was full of grace” (Mary—Doctrine for Everyman, page 17).

We’re exploring how error evolves. So, did you catch in the Catholic explanation above about why they came to believe she was born without sin?

It’s because they believe another error—the idea that men are born in sin or inherit the sin of Adam through their parents.

But the birth and sinless nature of Jesus cast the doctrine of inherited depravity in grave doubt. If babies inherit the sinful nature of their parents, how did Jesus come to be born without sin? Why didn’t he “catch” or otherwise “pick up” all the sins of his ancestors through Mary?

So, Catholic scholars faced a choice. Repudiate the false notion of inherited sin or create an answer to the dilemma. They chose the latter route. On December 8, 1854, Pope Pius IX declared Mary had been born without sin. Thus, they explained Jesus’ sinless nature and held on to the doctrine of inherited sin.

But it makes one wonder. If Mary was sinless, why did she say, “my spirit has rejoiced in God my savior” (Luke 1:47-48)? Describing someone as your savior implies the need for salvation. Mary must have recognized she had sinned.

Fable Of Mary’s Perpetual Virginity
The Bible clearly states that Mary was a virgin who had never known a man sexually from the time she conceived until after the birth of Jesus (Matthew 1:18, 23-25; Luke 1:26-35). Thus, the birth of Jesus was absolutely unique. The manner of his birth helps depict the two-fold nature of our Lord, being man and God at once.

But why would the Catholic church contend that Mary remained a virgin for her entire life on earth? They contend she never had sexual relations with a man or had any other children. To quote their approved writings, “It is Catholic faith that Mary was a virgin before the divine birth; during it; and after it—Our Lady never had any other children” (Mary—Doctrine for Everyman, p. 14).

Like our first fable, this one is rooted in yet another false premise. The Catholic church teaches that abstinence from marriage and sexuality is a superior position spiritually. This is why priests, nuns and other church leaders take vows of celibacy.

But to maintain their doctrine on celibacy, the myth about Mary’s perpetual virginity runs headlong into conflict with the Bible. The Bible only declares that Joseph did not know his wife sexually “till she had brought forth her firstborn son” (Matthew 1:24-25). Jesus is declared to have had brothers and sisters (Mark 6:3; Matthew 12:46-50; Acts 1:14). And Hebrews 13:4 declares that marriage is honorable, including the sexual component (“the bed”).

The Apostle Paul taught that husbands and wives should not deprive or defraud one another of the sexual component of marriage (1 Corinthians 7:1-5) and the sexual union is a part of a man and woman becoming “one flesh” (Matthew 19:5-6).

It is interesting that the Catholic church will “annul” a marriage and say it never really existed if it isn’t sexually “consummated.” Did Mary’s marriage to Joseph never really exist?

What a tangled web is weaved when error is compounded by more error. But that is the nature of the evolution of false teaching.

Fable Of The Assumption Of Mary Into Heaven
Some books call this the “great assumption.” That’s a pretty good description. This Catholic doctrine teaches that Mary never died but was taken directly to heaven like Enoch and Elijah. “When the course of our Lady’s life on earth was ended she was taken up body and soul into heaven” (Mary—Doctrine for Everyman, p. 34).

The Bible says absolutely nothing about Mary after reporting her and Jesus’ brothers assembling with the disciples after the Lord’s ascension (Acts 1:14). So, why did Catholics feel a need to create this doctrine?

Remember, error leads to error. Remember how the doctrine of original sin led to the development of the doctrine of immaculate conception? That doctrine didn’t end the problems Catholics had with the idea that men inherit sin from their forefathers.

By declaring Mary sinless, they created a new dilemma. Everyone who has read the book of Romans knows the Bible declares “the wages of sin is death” (6:23). But, wait a minute. If Mary had no sin, why would she die? Why would she receive the wages of a sinner when she hadn’t earned them?

Catholic doctrine had created a clear conflict. So, the choice was to repudiate the doctrines of the immaculate conception and original sin or “fix” the conflict with an explanation. Catholics chose the latter course.

In 1950 it became official Catholic dogma that Mary didn’t die.

Fable Of Mary As Mediatress Or Mediatrix
If Mary was sinless and went straight to heaven without facing the judgment of our Lord, she certainly would be greater than the mighty lawgiver of old, Moses. She would be greater than Abraham, the model of faith. So, where does her “assumption” lead?

We really see how error evolves into complete and total blasphemy now. The Catholic church calls Mary a mediatress or mediatrix (feminine form of mediator). “The name mediatress is given her insofar as she exercises this influence in heaven” (Mary—Doctrine for Everyman, p. 40).

This is problematic because the Apostle Paul said, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5). If Mary is a mediator, that makes “two” of them.

So, the Catholic church had a choice. Back away from this doctrine or develop it further. They chose the latter.

Calling her the “mother of God,” they also described her as the “gate of heaven” because, they say, no one can enter the blessed kingdom without passing through her.

So, Catholics pray to Mary. They claim that Jesus, as judge, is too harsh, but that Mary will not refuse anyone. Wow! That makes Mary sound more full of grace and mercy than even our Lord. And he’s the one who died for our sins on the cross.

Jesus taught his disciples to pray to God “in my name” (John 14:13-14). Jesus declared, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6). Peter preached as the church first began, “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12). He was speaking of Jesus, not Mary.

Jesus declared that “all power” had been given to him “in heaven and on earth” (Matthew 28:18). That wouldn’t leave any for Mary.

So, the Catholic church had a choice. It could repudiate this error and worship Jesus as Lord and only mediator, or it could develop this doctrine further. It chose to develop its error.

And that latter course is pure blasphemy, assuming for Mary the prerogatives of deity. In the same Catholic document previously quoted, it reads, “All power is given to thee (Mary—rb) in heaven and on earth” and “at the command of Mary all obey—even God.”

What? Even God obeys Mary?

“The whole Trinity, O Mary, gave thee a name…above every other name, that at thy name, every knee should bow, of things in heaven, on earth, and under the earth,” says the same Catholic document.

All that leaves a Bible believer with mouth agape.

Why Opposing Error Is So Important
Perhaps you are seeing not only the errors of Catholicism about Mary but the more important issue—how error evolves into monstrous and blasphemous false doctrine that totally repudiates the teaching of Scripture and elevates the human to the level of divinity.

Beginning with the doctrine of original sin, the myths and fables about Mary have grown until now she is viewed as sinless and virtually equal with Jesus. There has been a move afoot for several years now to declare her a co-mediator with Christ.

Her supposed assumption into heaven and associated doctrines make her equal in glory with Jesus and her declared mediation makes it seem she actually has greater influence than the Lord himself.

We have explored the development of one area of false doctrine in one human denomination. If we believe and teach error and then refuse to repent when the Holy Spirit brings it to our attention by showing us how it conflicts with the clear teaching of Scripture, then we are helping the enemy of our souls with his lies that are meant to confuse and destroy us.

Anonymous:
"Not so, it is a good thing to expose children to spirituality"

Why?

" SqueakyRat :

"I think it's sick that children even have "religious affiliations." Proselytizing to children is child abuse. Let them be. If they're of a religious temperament, they'll find their way to some expression of it in their lives."

Not so, it is a good thing to expose children to spirituality, but give them room as an adult to find their own way. My daughter choose to stay in the Christian walk I had while she grew up and I grew out of the rigidness of that Christianity and left the church.

It worked for her and she is happy with it. My guess is that she will grow out of it too. I trust ed her judgment and let her pick her own way after I left our church when she was 16 years old and able to drive herself to continue her youth-group and human video dance club involvement.

She was angry at me for leaving though.

I think it's sick that children even have "religious affiliations." Proselytizing to children is child abuse. Let them be. If they're of a religious temperament, they'll find their way to some expression of it in their lives.

Thanks, Lepi, Terra, and others for debunking the myth that "Pagans aren't sophisticated". We actually tend to be more educated and well-read than our Christian counterparts.

My BA was in Communications, with a minor in Russian. I'm currently a few classes away from my MS in IT Systems Management. I know Pagans who are doctors, nurses, accountants, professors, lawyers, scientists, and (of course, in the DC area) government employees.

Before you think that ancient Pagans were unsophisticated, remember that they built Stonehenge and the Pyramids.

Muslims are not allowed to change their religion.
Death penalty and all that, don'tcha know.

Why is belief in God necessary to lead a moral life ?

The percentage of people that have changed their religious beliefs is healthy. Blind adherence to a religion one is born into, I don't believe can be considered a sincere religious belief. A belief, religious or otherwise, is meaningless if it is not one that is arrived at though a thoughtful process. I thought all religious belief's contained a universal principle of respect for life, particularly human life. However, as I grow older and as I read items like many of the posts contained herein, I have come be believe that this is not true. Many who purport to be strongly religious seem to only respect those who believe exactly as they do. This either means their religion does not respect individual life, or calls into question their individual ability to be as religious as they purport to be. It's a shame so many are unable to discuss topics like religion without personally attacking another's character and beliefs. More intelligent discussion of religion might be had if religious beliefs were bigger than egos.

The biggest problem with spirituality is the notion that it is somehow a separate domain from the material universe. This is not only about spirituality in the outer world but also in the inner world. Man is built with feet of clay; the very same dirt that ate and reproduced itself into what eventually became mankind. But that dirt is no less divine than man - not only as part of man, but also as part of the universe.
So while events in the world can connect meaningfully on a level different than simple cause and effect, i.e. they can be meaningful to the beholder (which is divine), one must be very careful not to ignore the basic eat-or-be-eaten nature of things and oneself, or to try to somehow circumvent it or jail it. Because if that happens, then the dirt flies in one's face with such force, that few would survive the impact.
This is not just the dirt that God breathed life into etc., this is also the dirt God made before making mankind, which is no less animated by God and natural laws than man is.
("divine" in this context doesn't mean "good". It means interconnected on a level different than cause and effect)

"Now you have an idea that who is behind the CAUSE and what is the reason of your:
-Constant Headaches due to unnecessary continues thoughts.
-Continuous dissatisfaction and impatience in life making you take impulsive wrong decisions/acts.
-Unnecessary worry of coming time.
-Depression and heavy heart.
-Emptiness in life, not sure what you want from it.

You can heel the body temporarily with the medicine. But can you heel / control the continuous CAUSE, i.e., your thoughts OR in the words you understand your unnecessary worries????????

Think DEVIL!!"

Suggestion made on presumption are offensive. Get all the facts first before making a judgment, please!

Questioning minds, are a plus in a society.I am one of those who has switched religions, I believe we need to learn about different spiritual practises, and then decide which philosophy your soul is drawn toward. Birth should not decide religious affiliation. Wisdom and knowledge and quest for answers to the BIG questions, should determine faith. I switched from hindusim to a buddhist spirituality. But I decided not to limit my teacher to Buddha alone, but include Jesus, lord krishna and their words of wisdom, the Bible and the Gita.

Switching religions is a sign of health. It proves that people are actively searching for a religion without mechanically following what their parents handed down to them.

People switching religions is a wake up call for parents and religious leaders. Something is going wrong in the way religion is being presented to children that makes them switch their faiths when they grow up. It is good news however. Everybody has a chance to ask themselves what is going on and undertake any changes that may be necessary.

If may well be that the person switching religions is choosing a different set of religious beliefs simply because it appeals more to them. That freedom should be allowed them. Anyone can do only so much in influencing another person. The right to worship God in any way one pleases is the most fundamental of all human freedoms, even more fundamental than freedom of speech. No human being, however noble and selfless has the right to dictate how another human being chooses to worship His creator, or not. Having done one's best to set a good example, having given the children the best education regarding religion/s, one must leave the rest in God's hands. It is He who leads each soul to Himself in anyway He chooses. Neither parents nor religious leaders should hold themselves responsible for the choices made by anyone. But they do have the responsibility to offer their own religious convictions with a life that matches what they preach.

If places of religious worship would be a place not only where God is worshipped as a community, where rituals are not looked upon as an end in itself, but merely as a way to express one's love for God, a place where a strong sense of community is fostered, real support is offered to the weak and vulnerable in the community, yes love as Jesus commanded...then there would be less and less reason for people to look elsewhere to be spiritually nourished.

Switching religions is a sign of health. It proves that people are actively searching for a religion without mechanically following what their parents handed down to them.

People switching religions is a wake up call for parents and religious leaders. Something is going wrong in the way religion is being presented to children that makes them switch their faiths when they grow up. It is good news however. Everybody has a chance to ask themselves what is going on and undertake any changes that may be necessary.

If may well be that the person switching religions is choosing a different set of religious beliefs simply because it appeals more to them. That freedom should be allowed them. Anyone can do only so much in influencing another person. The right to worship God in any way one pleases is the most fundamental of all human freedoms, even more fundamental than freedom of speech. No human being, however noble and selfless has the right to dictate how another human being chooses to worship His creator, or not. Having done one's best to set a good example, having given the children the best education regarding religion/s, one must leave the rest in God's hands. It is He who leads each soul to Himself in anyway He chooses. Neither parents nor religious leaders should hold themselves responsible for the choices made by anyone. But they do have the responsibility to offer their own religious convictions with a life that matches what they preach.

If places of religious worship would be a place not only where God is worshipped as a community, where rituals are not looked upon as an end in itself, but merely as a way to express one's love for God, a place where a strong sense of community is fostered, real support is offered to the weak and vulnerable in the community, yes love as Jesus commanded...then there would be less and less reason for people to look elsewhere to be spiritually nourished.

The RYR already had faith otherwise he would not have traveled so far to ask questions of this itinerant impoverished preacher from the sticks that he had likely already asked of every other Rabbi within arms reach. And being rich and a ruler that was likely a long reach for that time and place.

This may have been his first visit to Jesus but I doubt it was his last. Many in the 1st century church thought him to be none other than Nicodemus. Jesus, you see, takes you where you are at and then leads you to where you need to go.

Free will always operates in opposition to God for it is permeated with selfishness. Until God changes your heart you remain ever a natural man for whom the things of the spirit are foolish, which by the way is why every other religion in the world save reformation Christianity makes of man his own savior. The minute you say man chooses God you make Christ's death on the cross unnecessary.

CCNL:

Now you have an idea that who is behind the CAUSE and what is the reason of your:
-Constant Headaches due to unnecessary continues thoughts.
-Continuous dissatisfaction and impatience in life making you take impulsive wrong decisions/acts.
-Unnecessary worry of coming time.
-Depression and heavy heart.
-Emptiness in life, not sure what you want from it.

You can heel the body temporarily with the medicine. But can you heel / control the continuous CAUSE, i.e., your thoughts OR in the words you understand your unnecessary worries????????

Think DEVIL!!

Daniel,

"Modern pagans are not true pagans historically--they do not really believe in gods and goddesses behind things. And they are not sophisticated enough to think about morality without gods and goddesses. They are stuck somewhere in the middle with watered down gods and goddesses and morality. Modern paganism: ineffective religion, science and philosophy."

Watered down Gods and Goddesses..? LOL...
Ineffective religion? Well it is said that we are growing, between 1990 and 2001 there was a 1675% growth. (And we do not go door to door.)Part of the switching of religions...is to us.
Science- our science is better then some...we believe in evolution, Quantum Machanics, and the earth revolves around the sun.
Philosophy? The Goddess has it right...scroll down.

We are not sophisticated to think of morality without the gods?

Our Gods do not give us rules of behavior such as a 10 commandments writ in stone. We have what is called the Rede...which means guide. We have Principles...they are writ by man not gods. They are ways to live ethically in balance and harmony with others. The Goddess did say," for my law is love unto all beings. Keep pure you highest ideal; strive ever towards it, let naught stop you or turn you aside..." also, "And therefore let there be beauty and strength, power and compassion, honor and humility, mirth and reverence within you".

I would compare our morality against most other religions and we would win. Ethical behavior, being honest and acting honerable is part and parcel to who we are. Our practices depend on belief..and if you can not believe your own words and intentions...how can you succeed or have anyone else believe you? We have a saying...Give your word seldom, but when you do it must be like iron.

We also have what is called the Law of Return, "What you put out returns to you". We recieve what we give to others.

I would place our morals as as good as many and better then most.

You are right we are not as the old Pagans...We are not of 10,000 years ago..we are people of 2008. I can tell you know only surface of what we are...first off, capitalize Pagan.

The elements for us are associated with energies. That energy might be associated with a God, Goddess, or different of forms. As far as associateing things like water, or trees, or mountians with a Goddess or God...in some cultures yes that was true...in some they were associated with spirits. But it is also not so simple...We celebrate the seasons; the turning of the year, the connection between man and our environment, and man and universe.

We just happen to use poetry, Prose, creative imaginary and mythology...its a language for us.

There are different religions in Paganism. I happen to be Wiccan. I belong to a tradition (denomination), to a coven; what you all might think of as a church. In fact in Louisiana we are a legal church....signed and sealed by the State.

You call us unsophistacated, I find that funny. Is that because we are different or you just can not connect educated folks with our beliefs?

One of our Wiccan leaders...Patrick McCollum, Hp. is Director and Chair of the National Correctional Chaplaincy Directors Association; and the Chaplaincy Liaison for the American Academy of Religion. He is also National Coordinator for the Lady Liberty League; the National Chaplaincy Affairs Coordinator for Circle Sanctuary in Wisconsin; and Director of Chaplaincy at the Cherry Hill Seminary; a Pagan Seminary.
He is also a master goldsmith. As a jeweler he does custom designs and his work has appeared in many high-end stores, such as Fred Segal, Barneys New York, Ice Beverly, Rodeo Drive, and the Forum Shops at Caesar's Palace. McCollum has also designed for a number of movie stars, including, Larry Hagman, Meg Ryan, and Russell Crowe. As such, McCollum had the honor of designing a United States Presidential Belt Buckle for President Ronald Reagan.

Patrick just appeared before the US Commission on Civil Rights in Washington, DC. He was invited to give a presentation on Religious Discrimination and Prisoners' Rights.

I just spoke to Patrick this afternoon and there will be presentations to Congress in the near future.

Phyllis Curotte, a social, political and spiritual activist, is an attorney, Wiccan priestess and author of the critically acclaimed and best-selling BOOK OF SHADOWS, sold in 12 countries. She has been honored by Jane magazine, along with Hillary Clinton, as one of the Ten Gutsiest Women of the Year, and was a finalist for the 2000 Walter Cronkite Faith and Freedom Award. One of the Wiccan spiritual movement's most renowned and influential theologians, H.Ps. Curott lectures and teaches internationally and was described by New York Magazine as one of New York's hippest and most intellectually cutting edge speakers.

These are only two of the many Wiccans that have made a mark for themselves.

Daniel, Pagans probably are better read then the average person, we certainly have larger libraries with more diverse interests. Knowledge is the base of our cornerstone. Most of us are well educated and are professionals.

Do not look down your nose at us, its a sure way to fall on your butt.

terra

Moody, Moody, Moody,

Your hallucinations follow in the footsteps of the great hallucinator, the warmongering, illiterate, "stenchifying" greed and lust driven arab and his hallucination-based and therefore significantly flawed religion aka Islam.

BTW, jinn are better known as "demons of the demented".

-Satan (Personal name : Iblees) is real.
-He (they are) is from the race of Gin’s or Ginni. And humans who obey them also called Satans.
-Made of fire, like us humans are made of water and earth.
-Was made the leader of the Angels for his obedience and worship.
-Was punished for his DISOBEDIENCE & AROGANCE. And granted life until Judgment Day.

(Reminder to Christians who disobey and break one law will not enter the kingdom of Heavens; accept only by the Mercy of Most Merciful and Forgiving God (Allah in Arabic). But with all your sins “through out your life you have to PROVE CONTINUOUSLY” that you are inclined towards OBEYING & REPENTING TO GOD for every sin you do due to obeying Satan becoming under his trap). As human nature is you keep practicing what you want to master sport, business, EVIL / DISOBEDIENCE OR VIRTUE / GOOD / OBEDIENCE OF GOOD DEEDS.

***-The HEAVIEST ON SATAN IS PROSTRATION.***
BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT HE REFUSED TO DO.
AND THAT IS WHAT EVERY APOSTLE (from Adam to Noah to Moses, Jesus and Mohammed (p.b.u.t.)) OF GOD HAS DONE.
***BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE MOST FAVOURITE WORSHIP OF GOD OF ALL CREATIONS (ALLAH IN ARABIC) IS. ***

NOW THE SECRET:

On every sin repent through PROSTRATION other than compulsory prostrations in a day and ***that will hurt the Satan so badly*** that he will give up making you do the same sin may be other but not the same. But you need to prostrate in front of THE ONLY GOD. BECAUSE THE **ONLY UNFORGIVEABLE SIN** IS “SHIRK” CALLING / WORSHIPING SOMEBODY ELSE AS GOD WHICH IS USELESS BECAUSE YOU ARE PROSTRATING TO SOMEBODY ELSE AND NOT THE “ONE” THE “CREATOR” THE “SUSTAINER” THE “MOST MERCIFUL” THE “MOST FORGIVING” THE “ONLY” WORTHY OF PROSTRATION.

Now for your information:
-Humans can see Gins or Jinni’s (not everyone). Question is HOW?
-Jinni’s are also believers and non-believers (partners of satan like us humans).
-Gin’s have different abilities than human, e.g., they can reach from one place to another in less than a blink of an eye therefore you can say THEY CAN SEE AND KNOW THINGS that are not possible for humans. They have long life (not every one); therefore some are even from the age of Prophet Mohammed (PBUH), Jesus (A.S.) and even before like satan himself one of the oldest.

- Some of you must have experienced the humans whose bodies are OCCUPIED by some external force. You call it exorcism. Yes this is what non believing satan jinn’s some times also do which is VERY VISUAL other than there regular daily mischief’s with humans like interfering in your thoughts and decisions effecting your daily life making it sinful and making you humans one of the satans.

- Now, I also have some experience of persons with exorcism CURRED by the “Mufti” level of Higher degree in Islam. The one who can give “Fatwah” against any act whether it is acceptable or not in Islam.

MY EXPERIECNE:

I have been told that there are many different ways of experiencing Gin’s. But the experience I had so many times “at different places with that Mufti” is as follows:

At different occasions and different house I have the chance to accompany the Mufti due to one of my friend, at the place of PRESENCE an external force affecting a human body.

The Mufti called “An Innocent Child sinless” age 5 to 8 mostly of the house, if not then asked to bring any of the relatives. Family members and we all are present there at different occasions. ( Mufti told that a sinless adult if not then a child is needed to help, because only they can see certain things other than him).

The sinless person sits in front of the Mufti along with the affected one, if possible otherwise not necessary. Then the Mufti asked the sinless person to close his/her eyes and do not open until he tell them. Then at every different occasion he read some verses and blows at the face of the sinless person sitting in his front. After that every time Mufti started asking questions to that sinless person:
-With closed eyes do you see someone else than already present in the room.
Reply: Yes, Few people came and sat behind Mufti, some are weird looking different then humans. But every time child never gets afraid even after.
- Mufti always ask there names and send them greetings. (Mufti told us they are his friends and helpers – Gin’s).
- Then Mufti proceeds ask them, if it is possible for them to control and correct or diminish the other presence. The Mufti’s friends – Gin’s were also pious practicing believers, who checked around and on every occasion confirm back through the sinless innocent child that they can do it.
- Then Mufti and his friends finish there job – remove the presence either capture them or make them agree to live immediately etc.
- Then the Mufti again read some verses and blows at the face of the sin less person and asked him/her to open there eyes.

Results are every time immediate and positive.

And my degree is in Animal Science, by the way.

Gary:
**I remain of the opinion that your average modern pagan (Please note that average would undoubtedly imply that there were exceptions) is generally some sort of liberal arts major engaged in an over extension of role play.**

I assure you that the Pagans I know (and I'm willing to bet the farm that I know a lot more than you do) are quite serious about our beliefs.
You seem to think that in order to be a Pagan, one must make blood sacrifice of some sort - either animal or human. You do realize that even among ancients, blood sacrifices were not everyday occurences, right? I wonder if you question the sincerity of modern Jews who don't practice animal sacrifices.

My Paganism tells me that I am a part of the living Earth, and She of me - and by extension I am a part of every living thing, from the bacteria in my morning yogurt to the potted geranium on my back porch to the cat asleep on my husband's stomach to you - and every living thing is part of me as well. It tells me that everything I do affects every other thing in the world because we are all connected. That knowledge impacts everything I do, from composting/recycling to where I buy the food I eat (as much as possible at the local farmers' market) to the cleaning products I use (mostly white vinegar, baking soda, and hydrogen peroxide) to the route I plan for errands. My religion is not an elaborate RPG, it's how I live every minute of every day. Formal rituals are only a small part of it.

While BGLT people are most certainly welcome in Paganism, being BGLT is not a requirement. And I'm sure that every religion has its share of "dingy" folk.

Modern satanism is as rife with sects as any other theological structure. One Lavay Satanism if I recall correctly is little more than more than normally in your face atheism. Others groups are just kids acting out - a sort of fire for effect outrageousness. There are reputedly underground groups (and they are underground for rather obvious reason) that engage in human sacrifice. I say reputedly because the evidence for their existence nowadays is fairly scant. Beyond that there is little to say.

The few Wiccans I have known were almost all Lesbians but that amounts to a grand total of five so I wouldn't extend that to the whole group out of hand. I thought all five to be slightly dingy into the bargain and no not because they were lesbians but rather because they always behave as if they were about a brick short of a load. Again based on that small a sample I would not extend that to the whole group.

Near as I can see modern Pagans have little to nothing in common with their ancient forebears and that given the number of apparently sacrificial victims found in bogs all over Europe is likely a good thing. I remain of the opinion that your average modern pagan (Please note that average would undoubtedly imply that there were exceptions) is generally some sort of liberal arts major engaged in an over extension of role play.

Anthropoligist :
"What a wonder reading this thread! Philosophers, Theologians, Scientists and Bible Beaters. Eyes turned towards the mind, eyes turned towards nature, eyes turned towards scripture. What do they see?"

Ourselves.

terra

"I hope modern pagans in examining past paganism turn into classics scholars...."

It's funny you mention that. My husband who teaches mythologies from around the world in our little community has studied everything from Homer to Joyce to Shakespeare to Faulkner while working towards a Master's degree. There are a lot of Master's Degrees, PHDs, nurses, professionals, social workers and others in our community.

The first Pagan I ever met was my college roommate who last I heard was working on her PHD in anthropology in Peru somewhere in a place without running water or electricity. It was the best 'sorry i can't come to your wedding' letter I'd ever seen.

There is so much encouragement in Paganism to study and study some more- everything from Asimov to Carl Sagan to Aristotle to Jung to Joseph Campbell- which increases our understanding of the purposes of everything from the myth to the mind.
Philosophy, history, religion- it's all there.
We just love to learn and study- it uncovers so much. For me the fun is realizing that there is SO much I don't have a clue about and starting to fill in the gaps.

To Priver from Daniel. Decent reply. I was not aware of what exactly modern pagans are up to--I just winged an observation from intuitions of statements of some modern pagans and compared with what I know of paganism of the past. I hope modern pagans in examining past paganism turn into classics scholars....

Wow! I'm a Heathen! That's a compliment. Thank you, Anonymous. If memory serves, that would be more of a warrior-like path. Not sure though.

That's pretty cool.. but no. My path is more Celtic based. The Heathens are.. Norse? Asatru? If anybody knows the answer to that, please share.

I just wonder why Anonymous gets to pick and choose who responds to him/her and nobody else does.

Daniel,

Modern Pagans have a lot more morality than you give credit for. Our Rede includes ourselves within its words.. and just a few words says a lot.

And Paganism, like Christianity, is a WIDE umbrella term for lots of distinctions within. There are a lot of Pagan Reconstructionists that are working to revive those ancient traditions within the context of modern life. They adhere as closely as possible to the original teachings from original sources, which often means having to deconstruct original writings that have a decidedly Christian bent to them. It's a hard process for the best of scholars but it's well worth it if new information can be revealed. With those comes different associations of the forces of Nature that are embodied in the faces of the Gods/Goddesses.
Some take the approach you describe. Others do not and view the gods/goddesses as separate beings with personalities all their own.

Think of it sort of like the sects of Christianity that don't always agree on things about Jesus.

Blessed be.

On the subject of paganism, I would like to say first of all that the person who posted under the name "complexity" is a thoughtful person...

The problem with modern "pagans" as I see it is that they really are not pagans--have really little to do with paganism historically speaking. Paganism historically speaking was a variety of systems with a variety of personifications for forces of nature, etc. A stream would be closely associated with a goddess. Lightening with a particular god. A pagan religion could have a multiplicity of gods and goddesses--some good, some evil, some ambiguous as to morality. The monotheistic religions of course simplified things into a strict good/evil dichotomy. But such a dichotomy is not without origin in pagan religion.

Now what modern pagans do is...really not believe in any of the personifications of forces of nature at all! They say they believe in an earth goddess, stuff like that, but they are not pagans like the ancients. Of course this is not necessarily bad--in fact modern pagans are more scientific than mythical when it comes to contemplating a stream or a tree in the woods (there is no god or goddess behind this or that stream or tree) but in one particular sense modern pagans are on the wrong track: in not really believing in personifications behind things and not believing in strong trends toward good or evil emanating from such personifications, they remove themselves from a contemplation of good and evil,--are quite bankrupt when it comes to thinking about morality. Morality originated in clearly distinguishing right and wrongs and these right and wrongs were seen as embodied in things and emanating from forces behind nature--gods and goddesses, demons, etc. As man becomes more sophisticated he has to begin thinking about courses of action without suspecting they ultimately emanate from things behind nature, but in his sophistication he often just stops thinking about morality altogether. It is difficult to think about morality without postulating ultimate sources for good and evil, that good and evil emanate from sources behind nature. Modern pagans are not true pagans historically--they do not really believe in gods and goddesses behind things. And they are not sophisticated enough to think about morality without gods and goddesses. They are stuck somewhere in the middle with watered down gods and goddesses and morality. Modern paganism: ineffective religion, science and philosophy.

BYE BYYE:

**You libs are headed for a breakdown. "all tokanism asside, I just love my excessively black son-in-law,**

Please define "excessively black" - I was not aware that there was such a thing. I don't care if my daughter brings home a love who is white, black, or plaid, male, female, or hermaphrodite, as long as they make each other happy.

**but homophobes are unhealthy people, not that I'm remotely latent,**

Sorry to ruin your fantasy, but I'm just not into women. Just like you don't have to be black to know that Jim Crow was wrong, you don't have to be BGLT to know that discriminatory marriage laws are wrong.

**but god I'm phobic about religion in public so act as the centurion to defend..**

I'm not phobic about religion in public - I don't go ape-sh1t when I see a person wearing a crucifix or a WWJD bracelet. I do object to people trying to push certain items of specific religious dogma into secular law, and I do object to having Chick tracts thrust in my face as I'm walking through the park. I have twice been physically menaced by over-zealous evangelists when I politel;y refused their literature - one blocked my path and grabbed me and only let go when I threatened to relocate his genitalia to his throat with my knee, and the other put his foot in my door when I tried to close it, and limped away after I slammed it. Sorry if being attacked makes me seem phobic.

**I havent decided yet..., but Satanism is cool cause that pisses them off,**

I didn't say that Satanism was or wasn't cool - I said I didn't know anything about it.

**but antagonism shows an adult attachment to the earth-godess who is not a diety of any sort, but Zeuss id as valid as,,,,"**

I am not antagonistic toward Christianity - I object to attempts to evangelize me against my will, and I object to one religion being favored over others, as is currently the situation where I live, because certain of MY religious practices are illegal simply because they violate CHRISTIAN doctrine.

Good work Anonymous. Your check is in the mail and the little Thai boy will visit tonight.

Lepidopteryx, my invitation's still open if you ever want to reconsider.

Yours truly,

S.

"Born Again" Hammerhead,

From Professors Crossan and Reed's book, Excavating Jesus":

p. 245, "but the thousands of victims of crucifixion left no traces save one (The crucified Man of Givat Hamivtar.)

The norm was to let crucifieds rot on the cross or be cast aside of carrion. The point was to deter lower class violations of Roman law and order."......."

i.e. Jesus suffered the same fate as all lower class victims of crucifixion.

Professors Crossan and Reed then go into great detail about the scriptural details (or lack thereof) and archeological history of the Jesus' crucifixion. See pp 245-270.

Here, try this one out then, Popadopalyx:
"The Boy Who Couldn't Stop Washing"

You libs are headed for a breakdown. "all tokanism asside, I just love my excessively black son-in-law, but homophobes are unhealthy people, not that I'm remotely latent, but god I'm phobic about religion in public so act as the centurion to defend.. I havent decided yet..., but Satanism is cool cause that pisses them off, but antagonism shows an adult attachment to the earth-godess who is not a diety of any sort, but Zeuss id as valid as,,,,"

Too easy..
Did I mention I was outta here? :)

Mephostophelyx
"Satanism, as I understand it (and if there is a Satanist reading this who can provide more information, please do), is simply the flip side of Christianity. I have not studied Satanism, so I can't really say much beyond that."

Hey I'm a Satanist!! Can I play!?? I love "let's piss off the Christians!"

I'm so outta here. Washington Post attracts the same vast wannabe-intellectual A.D.D. mob as the beeb.
Liberals couldn't muster an original thought between them if they herded slugs into universities.

Paganplace, What a self-righteous pig you are after all the incidences of personal attacks made by you and you want to slam me over one time of by the way you heathen friend Priver caused the discord. Let me remind you that you do not own this site and I am free to say what I want and not accountable to anyone but the moderators, Got it.

If I am ever on this on any other site do not talk to me. I do not want anything to do with you at all. In fact. If you so much as personally attack like you and you gang did before I will contact the moderators and report it. Just because you are addicted to posting sites does not give you the right to dictate anything to me.

I do not like you.

The usual - doing my part to piss off the religious right, and recently with Terra and several others trying to get a fair shake down south for the religious left.
Got m'ija and her bf moved into their own place - she's excited about holding her 18th birthday celebration inher own home. She hasn't told her grandparents yet - we're not sure if they're going to be more upset over the fact that she's moved in with a man,or that she's moved in with a black man. They're going to have to getused to it, though - they're engaged and planning to be married in July 09, and I love my future son-in-law.
We're buying a house - my first ever after 30+ years of renting. I'm asking some Pagan friends to come over and join me in a blessing ritual after we close before we start moving our stuff in.
Stage managing a production of one of my all-time favorite plays - Dancing at Lughnasa.

Other than that, not much...

" Paganplace :

Anonymous:

"Enough said, I am not going to argue this issue with you. You have your beliefs and I have mine."

You're entitled to your own beliefs, ...you're not entitled to your own "facts," ...yes, many Christians teach certain loops of false logic to try and connect Pagans to your Satan, but it's simply not true.

You're responsible for what you say... your beliefs about us and defamations of us result in real harm to real people, as we find when anyone decides we're fair game to oppress when they decide a Maypole is "really" Satanic, regardless of the facts, and happen to have a badge."
````````````````````````````````

Perhaps you need a reminder from 2/24/08 which I called you on for defaming my character and personally attacking me.

Here is the deal, I have had enough of your arrogance and it is my choice not to come back here and post again. You are so full of yourself you really make me want to vomit.

There are only one or two people of your pagan friends that are worth taking the time to discuss anything with. No skin off my back there are plenty other places for me to blog.

MM, Lepi! :) Busy by my standards, I suppose. :)

Yourself? :)

Merry meet, PaganPlace. How have you been?

Anonymous:

"Enough said, I am not going to argue this issue with you. You have your beliefs and I have mine."

You're entitled to your own beliefs, ...you're not entitled to your own "facts," ...yes, many Christians teach certain loops of false logic to try and connect Pagans to your Satan, but it's simply not true.

You're responsible for what you say... your beliefs about us and defamations of us result in real harm to real people, as we find when anyone decides we're fair game to oppress when they decide a Maypole is "really" Satanic, regardless of the facts, and happen to have a badge.