Readers’ Responses to Our Question (1241)

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ALL KIND OF POSSIBLE QUESTIONS ASKED BY NON MUSLIMS ARE ANSWERED AT BELOW WEB SITE:

http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm

Most Common Questions asked by Non-Muslims

HEREAFTER - LIFE AFTER DEATH

Question

How can you prove the existence of hereafter, i.e. life after death?

Answer

1. Belief in the hereafter is not based on blind faith?

Many people wonder as to how a person with a scientific and logical temperament, can lend any credence to the belief of life after death. People assume that anyone believing in the hereafter is doing so on the basis of blind belief.

My belief in the hereafter is based on a logical argument.

2. Hereafter a logical belief

There are more than a thousand verses in the Glorious Qur’an, containing scientific facts (refer my book "Qur’an and Modern Science-Compatible or Incompatible?"). Many facts mentioned in the Qur’an have been discovered in the last few centuries. But science has not advanced to a level where it can confirm every statement of the Qur’an.

Suppose 80% of all that is mentioned in the Qur’an has been proved 100% correct. About the remaining 20%, science makes no categorical statement, since it has not advanced to a level, where it can either prove or disprove these statements. With the limited knowledge that we have, we cannot say for sure whether even a single percentage or a single verse of the Qur’an from this 20% portion is wrong. Thus when 80% of the Qur’an is 100% correct and the remaining 20% is not disproved, logic says that even the 20% portion is correct. The existence of the hereafter, which is mentioned in the Qur’an, falls in the 20% ambiguous portion which my logic says is correct.

3. Concept of peace and human values is useless without the concept of hereafter

Is robbing a good or an evil act? A normal balanced person would say it is evil. How would a person who does not believe in the hereafter convince a powerful and influential criminal that robbing is evil?

Suppose I am the most powerful and influential criminal in the world. At the same time I am an Intelligent and a logical person. I say that robbing is good because it helps me lead a luxurious life. Thus robbing is good for me.

If anybody can put forward a single logical argument as to why it is evil for me, I will stop immediately. People usually put forward the following arguments:

a. The person who is robbed will face difficulties

Some may say that the person who is robbed will face difficulties. I certainly agree that it is bad for the person who is robbed. But it is good for me. If I rob a thousand dollars, I can enjoy a good meal at a 5 star restaurant.

b. Someone may rob you

Some people argue that someday I may be robbed. No one can rob me because I am a very powerful criminal and I have hundreds of bodyguards. I can rob anybody but nobody can rob me. Robbing may be a risky profession for a common man but not for an influential person like me.

c. The police may arrest you

Some may say, if you rob, you can be arrested by the police. The police cannot arrest me because I have the police on my payroll. I have the ministers on my payroll. I agree that if a common man robs, he will be arrested and it will be bad for him, but I am an extraordinarily influential and powerful criminal.

Give me one logical reason why it is bad for me and I will stop robbing.

d. Its easy money

Some may say its easy money and not hard-earned money. I agree completely that it is easy money, and that is one of the main reasons why I rob. If a person has the option of earning money the easy as well as the hard way, any logical person would choose the easy way.

e. It is against humanity

Some may say it is against humanity and that a person should care for other human beings. I counter argue by asking as to who wrote this law called ‘humanity’ and why should I follow it?

This law may be good for the emotional and sentimental people but I am a logical person and I see no benefit in caring for other human beings.

f. It is a selfish act

Some may say that robbing is being selfish. It is true that robbing is a selfish act; but then why should I not be selfish? It helps me enjoy life.

1. No logical reason for robbing being an evil act

Hence all arguments that attempt to prove that robbing is an evil act are futile. These arguments may satisfy a common man but not a powerful and influential criminal like me. None of the arguments can be defended on the strength of reason and logic. It is no surprise that there are so many criminals in this world.

Similarly raping, cheating etc. can be justified as good for a person like me and there is no logical argument that can convince me that these things are bad.

2. A Muslim can convince a powerful and influential criminal

Now let us switch sides. Suppose you are the most powerful and influential criminal in the world, who has the police and the ministers on his payroll. You have army of thugs to protect you. I am a Muslim who will convince you that robbing, raping, cheating, etc. are evil acts.

Even if I put forth the same arguments to prove that robbing is evil the criminal will respond the same way as he did earlier.

I agree that the criminal is being logical and all his arguments are true only when he is the most powerful and influential criminal.

3. Every human being wants justice

Each and every human being desires justice. Even if he does not want justice for others he wants justice for himself. Some people are intoxicated by power and influence and inflict pain and suffering on others. The same people, however, would surely object if some injustice was done to them. The reason such people become insensitive to the suffering of others is that they worship power and influence. Power and influence, they feel, not only allows them to inflict injustice on others but also prevents others from doing likewise to them.

4. God is Most Powerful and Just

As a Muslim I would convince the criminal about the existence of Almighty God (refer to answer proving the existence of God). This God is more powerful than you and at the same time is also just. The Glorious Qur’an says:

"Allah is never unjust
In the least degree"

[Al-Qur’an 4:40]

5. Why does God not punish me?

The criminal, being a logical and scientific person, agrees that God exists, after being presented with scientific facts from the Qur’an. He may argue as to why God, if He is Powerful and Just, does not punish him.

6. The people who do injustice should be punished

Every person who has suffered injustice, irrespective of financial or social status, almost certainly wants the perpetrator of injustice to be punished. Every normal person would like the robber or the rapist to be taught a lesson. Though a large number of criminals are punished, many even go scot-free. They lead a pleasant, luxurious life, and even enjoy a peaceful existence. If injustice is done to a powerful and influential person, by someone more powerful and more influential than he, even such a person would want that person perpetrators of injustice to be punished.

7. This life is a test for the hereafter

This life is a test for the hereafter. The Glorious Qur’an says:

"He who created Death
And life that He
May try which of you
Is best in deed;
And He is the Exalted
In Might, Oft-Forgiving"
[Al-Qur’an 67:2]

8. Final justice on day of judgement

The Glorious Qur’an says:

"Every soul shall have
A taste of death:
And only on the Day
Of Judgement shall you
Be paid your full recompense.
Only he who is saved
Far from the Fire
And admitted to the Garden
Will have attained
The object (of life):
For the life of this world
Is but goods and chattels
Of deception."
[Al-Qur’an 3:185]

Final justice will be meted out on the Day of Judgement. After a person dies, he will be resurrected on the Day of Judgement along with the rest of mankind. It is possible that a person receives part of his punishment in this world. The final reward and punishment will only be in the hereafter. God Almighty may not punish a robber or a rapist in this world but he will surely be held accountable on the Day of Judgement and will be punished in the hereafter i.e. life after death.

9. What punishment can the human law give Hitler?

Hitler incinerated six million Jews during his reign of terror. Even if the police had arrested him, what punishment can the human law give Hitler for justice to prevail? The most they can do is to send Hitler to the gas chamber. But that will only be punishment for the killing of one Jew. What about the remaining five million, nine hundred and ninety nine thousand, nine hundred and ninety-nine Jews?

10. Allah can burn Hitler more than six million times in hellfire

Allah say in the Glorious Qur’an:

"Those who reject
Our signs, We shall soon
Cast into the Fire;
As often as their skins
Are roasted through,
We shall change them
For fresh skins,
That they may taste
The penalty: for Allah
Is Exalted in Power, Wise"
[Al-Qur’an 4:56]

If Allah wishes he can incinerate Hitler six million times in the hereafter in the hellfire.

11. No concept of human values or good and bad without concept of hereafter

It is clear that without convincing a person about the hereafter, i.e. life after death, the concept of human values and the good or evil nature of acts is impossible to prove to any person who is doing injustice especially when he is influential and powerful.

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What is hell? What is heaven? Who goes there? The Bible answers these questions.

The condition of the dead is made clear at Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10, where we read: "The dead know nothing . . . In the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom." Scripturally, death is a state of nonexistence. The dead have no awareness, no feelings, no thoughts.

Since the dead have no conscious existence, hell cannot be a fiery place of torment where the wicked suffer after death. Examining what happened to Jesus after he died helps to explain what is hell.

“he saw beforehand and spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in Ha´des (hell) nor did his flesh see corruption. This Jesus God resurrected, of which fact we are all witnesses.”
Acts 2:31-32

“I handed on to you…that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; and that he was buried, yes, that he has been raised up the third day according to the Scriptures.”
1 Corinthians 15:3,4

So Jesus was in hell, the grave, but he was not abandoned there;he was raised up, or resurrected. The Bible hell is the common grave of mankind where good people as well as bad ones go.

The fire of hell is symbolic of all-consuming, or thorough, destruction. Separating fire from Hades, or hell, the Scriptures say: "Death and Hades were hurled into the lake of fire."
Revelation 20:14

"The lake" mentioned here is symbolic, since death and hell (Hades) that are thrown into it cannot literally be burned. Those in God's memory who are in hell—the common grave of mankind—have a marvelous future.

The Bible says hell will be emptied.

"The sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Hades gave up those dead in them."
Revelation 20:13

Jesus promised, "the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear [Jesus'] voice and come out."
John 5:28, 29
Although no longer presently existing in any form, millions of dead ones who are in Jehovah God's memory will be resurrected, or brought back to life, in a restored earthly paradise.
“And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.””
Luke 23:43
“and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.”
Acts 24:15.
The Bible teaches that God resides in heaven along with millions of spirit creatures called angels. (Matthew 18:10; Revelation 5:11)

the Bible states that only a limited number of faithful Christians—namely, 144,000 of them—are raised as spirit creatures to live in heaven. Why are they given this wonderful reward? Because they make up the group that John saw in a vision who "came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years." (Revelation 14:1, 3; 20:4-6) Compared with the billions on earth, the 144,000 truly are a "little flock." (Luke 12:32) Moreover, having experienced the problems common to humankind, like Jesus they will be able to "sympathize with our weaknesses" as they supervise the rehabilitation of mankind and of the earth.—Hebrews 4:15.

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JEWISH MADE HELL!

HIPPOCRATIC BARBARIC CAPITALIST SECULAR ZIONIST WEST:

Look what they are doing to Palestinians?
Look at the news of Palestinians trying to flee at Egypt border. The whole nation is crushed by the Zionist Occupiers in every way, food, energy, medicine for the old, child and seriously ill. There army destroying there fields and homes, killing the infants, women and children EVERY DAY.

And then there is news of SHAMLESS ZIONIST ISRAELI wOmen with two small children giving an interview that they are terrorized by the Hamas rocket fires. There car was destroyed, house windows were shackled. There Media telling every day 200 to 300 rockets are fired in Israeli border areas and there businesses are badly effected…B.S.!!!!

Why don’t the ZIONEST SHAME OF THE HUMAN FACE show on media those 200 to 300 rocket attacked places?? INSTEAD showing there shameless alone wOmen and media jugglery as a counter news???

And when the WESTERN SECULAR ZIONEST CAPITALIST SHAME OF THE HUMAN FACE condemns AND STOP SUPPORTING such BARBARIC AND CRUEL actions????

And when does HIPPOCRATIC BARBARIC CAPALISTIST SECULAR ZIONIST WEST stop acting like Hippocratic Maniacs???

Does Washington Post DARE to make a link On Faith with heading “CAPALIST SECULAR ZIONIST WEST CRIME AND VIOLENCE”????

YOUR GOVERNMENTS SHAMELESS SUPPORT SHOWS THAT THEY ARE EQUALLY RESPONSIBLE… IN EVERY BARBARIC ACTIONS GOING ON ALL OVER THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!

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ED and Like wise,

By the way who are you? Does any body know you or verify you intelligence?

Below are the very few of the WORLD ACKNOWLEDGED references from where I quote in my simple words.

-www.islamicvoice.com/january.97/scie.htm
-www.jamaat.net/deedat.htm

-Keith L. Moore
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
This article does not cite any references or sources. (March 2007)
Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unverifiable material may be challenged and removed.

Keith L. Moore is a professor emeritus in the division of anatomy (department of surgery), former Chair of anatomy and associate dean for Basic Medical Sciences (Faculty of Medicine) at the University of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. He has also worked at the King Abdulaziz University in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. He is most known for his textbooks on the subjects of anatomy and human embryology.

He has co-written (with professor Arthur F. Dalley II) Clinically Oriented Anatomy, which is the most popular English-language anatomy textbook in the world, used by scientists, doctors, physiotherapists and students worldwide. The book is especially popular because of its 'blue boxes' - passages of text on blue background that relate the classical anatomy to real-world concepts in the diagnosis and treatment of human patients. The book now exists in multiple versions - one with American English spelling and one with British English spelling, and also a shorter version that is more suitable as a reference or revision guide.

Contents [hide]
1 Embryology and the Qur'an
2 See also
3 Books
4 External links

[edit] Embryology and the Qur'an
Moore has written some articles on "references to embryology in the Qur'an".

[edit] See also
The relation between Islam and science#Embryology

Moody, you are so full of hockey puck it's unbelievable. All cultures have just about the same infor the kuran has, and since the Koran is jsut about a good a copy from the bible, and other religious books, no wonder it has those things.

Just some items:

And your numbered items are rubbish. The "Big Bang" in the koran,, lol... you don't even know what it is and think the koran has any even remote idea what it is.

Human embryos being perfect, all mammal embryos go thru the same thing. The Human body is far from perfect, that's why we have prostrate trouble.

All plants and fruits don't have male and female attributes.

You koran is nonsense and ther is nothing of any scientific value in it, it's mostly wrong.

My favorite is after the earthquake that produced the tidal wave in 2004 in the Pacific.. The Muslim scientific scholars did a TV interview and said the scientific reason was that god caused it to punish the people. What a bunch of jugheads.

Muslim is just another way of spelling moron.

Perhaps George Carlin has the correct answer:
"When we die our souls go to a car wash in Detroit." Depressing for those who have visited there.

all i can say is that all God's judgments are just and that all men will be judged according to their works and circumstances and that their rewards will be deserved. There is no clear cut division of heaven and hell as some would presume,our God is far too just to make it that simple.

all i can say is that all God's judgments are just and that all men will be judged according to their works and circumstances and that their rewards will be deserved. There is no clear cut division of heaven and hell as some would presume,our God is far too just to make it that simple.

all i can say is that all God's judgments are just and that all men will be judged according to their works and circumstances and that their rewards will be deserved. There is no clear cut division of heaven and hell as some would presume,our God is far too just to make it that simple.

I do believe in both heaven and hell. Since I'm Christian, I believe the Bible to be the Word of God, as long as it is translated correctly. I also take Jesus as my personal Saviour, and look to him as the greatest mentor. In the Bible, we find the words of Jesus Christ himself as Truth.
Jesus states in Matthew, "Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as a little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." From Matthew to Revelation, Heaven is mentioned many times.

Hell, on the other hand, exists as well. There is Good and there is Evil. Just as we reward good behavior and punish bad, God punishes those who ignore, forget, or act directly against his will. In the New Testament, Hell is used mostly when Christ teaches the Pharisees and Saducees that their teachings and examples were worthy of no reward.

May those who live in our day see the reality of black vs. white. There is responsibility for our actions in this life and the life to come.

The question of the existence of heaven and/or hell may be addressed as a matter of subjective perception (such as is arguably the case from the point of view of the religious), or as a matter of objective interest. When I was young, I was prone to "believe", and assume as objectively real, that which was later demonstrated to have been merely a matter of perception. Most of us do this at some point or other, I think, and so we learn to do at least some cursory examination of the relevant facts. It's unclear that any such examination has been made by the posters here so far.

As far as I know, the Torah indicates that the first individual investigation of Heaven was made by Enoch, who "walked with God, and was not". Subsequently, there were apparently rumors that Enoch had indeed returned for a time and left a recounting of his experiences, adding his advice. It was only in the 18th century that copies of such a document were found in Ethiopia. It turns out that this document had been known for centuries; there were other versions of the same material in eastern Europe and in Russia.

The question, naturally enough, was/is whether or not the documents are valid as presented. We may suppose that they are not the original documents if indeed any such ever existed. But we can inspect the material to see if any internal evidence supports its genuineness. What can we find that might indicate that Enoch (obviously not his original name) may have been an historical character, and that his descriptions of Heaven might have some validity?

There is a section in the Ethiopian material, called 1Enoch, that is a straightforward description of observational systemic astronomy. Systemic astronomy deals with the Solar System; observational astronomy is that done by direct visual contact. Which means we're talking about the direct witnessing of the function of the Solar System. In specific, we're talking about measuring the movement of the Sun and Moon using some terrestrial viewpoint as a standard. On the face of it, this would seem to be good science, but done long ago before science was even a concept.

This is the Astronomical section beginning at (verse) 72 in the R. H. Charles edition.

It would appear that Enoch was taken to heaven by the Angel Uriel and shown the workings of the sun and moon and some planets. The protocols were straightforward and could be accomplished by one man in a place where the horizons could be observed, with the aid of two poles. Appropriate markers would be used to indicate observation pole positions, etc, etc, etc.

And this writing appears in the same context as the "Fallen Angels" and other "heavenly" events. This would seem to indicate that the whole business was intended to be taken as a single piece. That said, the subsequent interpretations (presumably by Enoch himself) can be assumed to be additions and not integral descriptions.

The point to all this is that, according to the Enochian material, Heaven can be placed on earth at a latitude of about 49 degrees north, at least at the Solstice point. It also would appear that such "heavenly" observatories existed at slightly more southern latitudes; Enochian descriptions of the relative length of day and night do not satisfy a single point of observation.

Now, what can we make of all this?

We can take the area of the "Garden of Eden" as a center point at the southern end of the Tigris-Euphrates flow and assume that Enoch was probably not far distant from the Mesopotamian plains. The nearest access to the latitude of observation at the Solstice would have been in the area just north of the Black Sea. Other observation points could have been east or west of the Black Sea, and in the northern part of Asia Minor (now Turkey) near the southern shore of the Black Sea.

Thus, Enoch would have been taken to the north to witness Heaven. Heaven, then, would have been the areas around the shores of the Black Sea. This implies that "above" means "north".

Some reasonable conjecture supports this conclusion. If the sky was indeed seen as Heaven, then that part of the skies that did not touch earth (rise and set) would have been the northern skies, where the constellations remain visible year around. Those stars, if indeed they were seen to represent deities, would thus be regarded as heavenly and apart from the earth. Again, this is only conjecture.

So much for Heaven.

The concept of Hell (and the Devil, et al) did not exist before the Medieval Period, and was specifically a Christian construct. Some elements of Jewish thought serve as possible precedents, but are not specific. So Hell exists as a matter of Roman Catholic decree.

So much for Hell.

Finally, one can argue subjective beliefs based on religious dicta and dogma as long as a forum for doing so exists. And nothing at all will be resolved; nothing meaningful accomplished. What will happen is that the arguers will reveal themselves as critically deficient and intellectually challenged, and will be thus regarded by anyone with some common sense.

Perhaps, the question might be: Why in the world do these question continue to persist, especially in our time of advanced knowledge? The answer, of course, is that individual "reality" is held to be as important as objective knowledge. Such a case might be argued for any given individual, but it cannot succeed for the community, where one man's vision of utopia may well be another man's vision of an earthly nightmare.

But, of course, we all prefer to expend human life and hard-won wealth in constant violence and warfare, lest our collective nightmares be successfully challenged by other such nightmares. Those who believe in Heaven and Hell, such that Heaven is an impossible place of attainment, consign themselves to the Hell of their own creation.

William D. Tallman

Dave, Deb, BPC, CCNL, Kafir and all non believers you keep your commentary on all the time criticizing Islam BUT never answer a single direct question raised by any Muslim OR reply DIRECTLY on there comments to your posts.

IF YOU GUYS ARE REALLY HONEST, NOT WITH MUSLIMS BUT ATLEAST WITH YOUR OWN SELVES,

THEN DARE TO ANSWER BELOW:

You can close your eyes or do not accept for what ever reasons you have….twist or lie
BUT YOU CAN'T DENY THE TRUTH:
THAT EVERY RATIONAL INTELLIGENT LOGICAL KNOWLEDGE & SICENCE IS TESTIFYING FOR QURAN....AFTER EVERY NEXT DISCOVERY AND AWARENESS!

MODREN SCIENCE AND QURAN (ISLAMIC DIVINE BOOK)

Quran is not a book of science BUT a book of signs. It has more than 6000 verses out of which more than 1000 verses giving CLEAR signs about the modern scientific proven facts in recent couple of hundred years. (THIS BY ANY POSSIBLE MEANS CANNOT BE SAID BY US HUMANS 1400 YEARS BACK. THE ONLY LOGIC IS THAT IT’S FROM SOMEONE WHO IS COMMUNICATING TO A HUMAN AND KNOWS BETTER THAN HUMANS)

- For some people ONE sign is enough to believe.
- For some people 10 signs are enough.
- But some people don't come to believe even after more than 1000 miraculous signs.

Verses about:

1- Big bang theory (in a nut shell).
2- Geo spherical Ostrich egg shaped earth (spherical which is the exact shape)
3- Cosmic dust (referred more perfectly as smoke).
4- How water seep into the earth and rain cycle through AIR.
5- Sweet and salt water of oceans and barrier between them.
6-Expanding sun, solar system and universe for given period of time
7- Earth, sun and stars revolving on their axis and path (orbits).
8- Sun and moon have different paths (orbits).
9- Sun and stars consuming there energy.
10- Reflected sun light of moon. In Arabic mooneer (moon) it self means reflected light.
11- Upper thin layer of earth, which is hold by mountains as nails (bigger in size deep in earth) from shacking.
12- Perfect shape and stages of human embryo.
13- All living being made out of water.
14- All plants and even fruits have male and female attributes.
15- The exact way of plants and animal’s behavior and how they communicate.

AND MANY MORE............

THESE ARE ALL RECENT DISCOVERIES AND SIGN FOR THOSE SINCERELY SEEKING TRUTH!!!!!! AND REMEMBER THAT IS NOT WHAT QURAN IS ALL ABOUT... THESE ARE JUST TESTIFYING SIGNS WITHOUT ANY FLAW OR FAULT.

Mandy:

Amen, Amen, and AMEN!!!! Spread the faith sweetheart!!!

For me, it helps to remember that there's no necessary connection between God and an afterlife.

It is easy to imagine God creating a world where living things do not persist in any way after death.

It's also possible to imagine a world without God in which life continues in some form (e.g., as "information") after death.

well im not strong in the faith but i do believe that God will save us all and it is written that every knee will bow and every tongue will confess and if you are the kind of person that dosent believe and you try to find excuses on everything about the bible and try to prove it wrong maybe you should die already and get your sinful life over with i know that dosent sound christian but im not hear to be nice...
but Im hear to pray for you
and soon you will see the
truth
-seeker of knowledge

I believe that when we die, our soul, in its non-time-bound, soul-state, watches over "what happens next" in this world, that has anything to do with what we did when we lived here.

As long as people remember us, or our lives continue to directly effect the lives that came after ours, we hang around, and see what is.

Heaven is when we are remembered for good things, and when the deeds of our life was a cause for good over time. We get to enjoy the Heaven of seeing how our life helped the future, and how it worked out for the good.

Hell is when we are remembered with hatred, when the deeds (or lack of deeds) in life caused needless sorrow or pain over time. Hell is having to see how our self-centered choices hurt others, and the trouble we caused over time.

There is no reason for there to be some grand overseer to "send us to Heaven or Hell" because after we die, freed from the ego and appetites of our bodies, we see the good and bad we did with complete clarity. We are able to forgive ourselves and others what ought to be forgiven, and able to see our true sins as they are, without shying away from the truth.

Very few people will find this experience to be ALL Heaven or Hell. And when the experience of seeing our lives for what they truly were, is over, then we come back to earth for another chance to live it right.

Acting and being good really are their own reward, which doesn't mean that this life will be easy or comfortable--just that this life is a lesson, and both the goal and the prize are to be truly good, even in the face of desire and opportunity to be bad.

Thank you for sharing your deepest feelings and thoughts

INTELLIGENT !

u just dont get it do you? everything just is.

period.

its perfect. always has been, all our wars and fueds are all imaginary, we made em up.....

find a war that was made by any God in any religion, or by some greedy God

no, greedy MEN and foolish MEN that thought they had something to argue about

tell me, what is an arguement? il tell you what it is sunshine, its a sound

it sounds like this

arrgguuument...

so if we go back and forth brother there is no reason because this difference we see
these beliefs

are sounds

sounds are sounds....

thats it, you have ears and you hear them....
that is the only thing that makes them exist...

so what is everyone argueing about? illusions....

my sound is more right than your sound...hahah cmon people hahah

i had this, i will be that, no neither is true, you are, all of you and that is all

the founders of these great religions get it, there followers dont, that is why they argue semantics like fools

PING

Rahmani,
AOA,

I'm only replying to your raised questions, so please forgive my hard way of expression. And one more thing I personally know Iranians and Iran is very close to my heart.

"You said that if you understand Islam then you have no reason to preach".

First of all what do you understand by Preaching?
-Preach means to inform(strive) about(for) Truth and knowledge against falsehood to perish it.
-Preach means your life the way you spend or practice it. WHICH DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY INFLUENCE YOUR SURROUNDINGS (GOOD WAY OR BAD WAY?)
- And finally Armani IF YOU REALLY KNOW ISLAM, then the Hadith of the Prophet(PBUH)says pass on the TRUE KNOWLEGE even if you know just a single hadith as your duty being muslim.

AND FOR YOUR INFORMATION AS EVERY MUSLIM KNOW, ISLAM IS NOT JUST A PHILOSOPHY LIKE ALL OTHER RELIGIONS, IT IS A COMPLETE PRATICAL WAY OF LIFE.

"Now come to your another question, you said relinquish the need of critisize and demean whom you know nothing. And further question your motives".

Well here you are implying some serious accusations towards me ABOUT WHOM YOU KNOW NOTHING? If you read my mails carefully I never get personal to anyone AND ALWAYS SPEAKS THROUGH REFERENCE. Only couple of times to two guys I commented to take some treatment. And thats the maximum personal I got so far while replying them.

"Further you said, if a man not humble enough to first acknowledge his mistake, he will never see his mistake and never imporve".

I WILL SUGGEST YOU IT APPLIES TO EVERY ONE INCLUDING YOU. SO BETTER START PRACTISING!!!!

"And lastly you asked me to come to you when I have true understanding of my faith".

I may have many weaknesses in me BUT I'M CLEARLY SURE, that you are not the right person for the guidence of my or any muslims Faith that is Islam. After reading your incorrect psychology confused speech.
As every muslim know the true source of guidence in Quran and Sunnah of our beloved Prophet(PBUH)and recognized Scholars of Islam.

With good intensions,
Moody.

moody-

thank you friend, first let me make clear, that it is the clarity of my mind which understands and speaks, the full name is Rahmani, and i know the meaning well, it should be known that i am a proud iranien american who has been of the Muslim faith for 26 years and have studied it thoroughly,

what you my friend have not understood, is that
my point is that there is indeed no point arguing faith, much less killing over it, it is personal
and beautiful so long as it is used for its intended purpose which is to unite....

perhaps you should question your own motives? some introspection perhaps? because brother
words, nor violance will change a mans beliefs,
the true believer seeks to unify, not to divide
from the trillions of individual cells which work in unison within your own body a wise man would know that it is unity in which we move forward as humanity.....

no friend, if you understand Islam you would have no reason to preach, instead you would live by the loving and compassionate example in which the Quaran speaks....

this is precisely the reason my faith is kept private, it is one of the few things in which my relationship with God is my own and none others

to bring devisive talk, ghiba or any thing of that nature is far from the truth in which you speak of....perhaps you should follow the example of
The Prophet Muhammad and spend time in meditation as i have, for only then Moody when you search within will you have any true understanding of Allah, for the wondorous Quran will not be understood by a man who has never sought the depths of himself first......

when you do you will understand why the Prophet Muhammad did not call himself Muslim, indeed it was only the imperfect and unenlightened men who named and divided its beautiful message....
the teaching was universal, this is the same fate that has likewise befallen all of the great religions...

please contact me when you have a true understanding of your own faith, and you have relinquished the need to critisize and demean others of whom you know nothing about...

that is not the characteristics of a real Muslim,

similarly, if a man is not humble enough to first acknowledge when he is mistaken he will never see his mistakes, if he never sees them he will never see need for change thus he will never improve..

my warmest regards brother...

Rahmani

No Christian heaven, no Christian hell.

Some people need groups. Groups need stories and rules.

There are hundreds of religious groups with hundreds of stories and sets of rules. Christianity is only one of these.

Heaven and hell are part of a story. The story is not a problem unless people kill or hurt others in its name. Which Christians have done repeatedly throughout their bloody time.

I don't believe any of it. I'd rather confront the mystery in the present moment. The Bible said it: this is heaven.

You can close your eyes or do not accept for what ever reasons you have….twist or lie
BUT YOU CAN'T DENY THE TRUTH:
THAT EVERY RATIONAL INTELLIGENT LOGICAL KNOWLEDGE & SICENCE IS TESTIFYING FOR QURAN....AFTER EVERY NEXT DISCOVERY AND AWARENESS!

MODREN SCIENCE AND QURAN (ISLAMIC DIVINE BOOK)

Al-Qur’an is not a book of science BUT a book of signs. It has more than 6000 verses out of which more than 1000 verses giving CLEAR signs about the modern scientific proven facts in recent couple of hundred years. (WHICH BY ANY POSSIBLE MEANS CANNOT BE SAID BY US HUMANS 1400 YEARS BACK. THE ONLY LOGIC IS THAT ITS FROM SOME "ONE" WHO IS COMMUNICATING TO A HUMAN AND KNOWS BETTER THAN HUMANS)

- For some people ONE sign is enough to believe.
- For some people 10 signs are enough.
- But some people don't come to believe even after more than 1000 miraculous signs.

Verses about:

1- Big bang theory (in a nut shell).
2- Geo spherical Ostrich egg shaped earth (spherical which is the exact shape)
3- Cosmic dust (referred more perfectly as smoke).
4- How water seep into the earth and rain cycle through AIR.
5- Sweet and salt water of oceans and barrier between them.
6-Expanding sun, solar system and universe for given period of time
7- Earth, sun and stars revolving on their axis and path (orbits).
8- Sun and moon have different paths (orbits).
9- Sun and stars consuming there energy.
10- Reflected sun light of moon. In Arabic mooneer (moon) it self means reflected light.
11- Upper thin layer of earth, which is hold by mountains as nails (bigger in size deep in earth) from shacking.
12- Perfect shape and stages of human embryo.
13- All living being made out of water.
14- All plants and even fruits have male and female atributes.
15- The exact way of plants and animals behaviour and how they communicate.

AND MANY MORE............

THESE ARE ALL RECENT DISCOVERIES AND SIGN FOR THOSE SINCERELY SEEKING TRUTH!!!!!! AND REMEMBER THAT IS NOT WHAT QURAN IS ALL ABOUT... THESE ARE JUST TESTIFYING SIGNS WITHOUT ANY FLAW OR FAULT.

K Rahman:

Dum and donkies also look BUT can't see or understand! Keep trying one day you will get your head clear.

By the way this is one of the most beautiful Name of Alllah you have used!

Rahman : the most Gracious, the most Merciful

unus_supra@yahoo.com

ps what i have doesnt contradict any religion or
philosophy, in the end it supports all of them because in theyre own way they are all perfectly correct....

well thank you Gaby...

i hope it did something to make your day better?
that is the only reason i write...

i never knew i was doin it but i was systimatically searching for the truth behind existance, from the lates sciences, to the most ancient philosophies, to all of the religions...

im about as normal as you get to, thats the funny thing

I saw something you know, in my minds eye for about a half second, and it was so profound, and so beutiful and so pure,

i thought i was about to die, like i wasnt supposed to know it or something, then as i tried to explain it i lost it so i realized its true beauty,

and i was so HAPPY i wanted to wake up the neighbors and tell them hey its all just fine, everything is okay theres nothing to worry about or argue about, its okay!
ofcourse at that point i would have looked like a lunatic...so

since i cant put it in words i just try to get people to look back and see reason,

once a man looks outside, and i mean really looks outside for the truth, becomes truly skeptical and i mean skeptical of everything like myself, they realize the truth cannot be found outside
so eventually they look inside
and

WHAMMY

if people want to know all they need to do is look....and i mean really care and really look and they will find it... no joke...

heres a clue, late at night if your laying in bed and the back of your neck hurts and your depressed because your mind is overactive attempting to process all of the information
that you have garnered

your close....

im not special or any better or worse than anyone else, we are all the same...

but i can tell you what i know if anyone whants to know whats goin on in all this...

id be honored, so if anyone is interested please dont hesitate to contact me via email...

i promise im not crazy, and when im done it will all make perfect sense, because i can only give pointers, its the person that must do the searching..but i got a hell of a good map...

love, peace and chicken grease....

krahman :

WOW!!! That was one heck of a trip! But I know you are right!

First and foremost for all Christians is getting into heaven. Evangelicals believe that their god will let them into heaven if they suck up to him while persecuting their "sinful" neighbors. (Apparently their god is powerless to do any of his own dirty work, so he outsources it to the most willing.)

Actually, the three finger law applies here. The Evangelicals are quick to point out the sliver in someone else's eye while ignoring the log in their own eye. The heart of the "Bible Belt" is adorned with churches and porn shops in equal numbers. The reason Jimmy Swaggart is still in business is that his entire congregation had seen him in the porn shops long before he got caught with a hooker's pants down. Whoo whoo. Those Evangelicals have all the fun.

The Evangelicals insist that true believers must have a personal relationship with their savior. Then they insist that this relationship has to be demonstrated continually in public and that their quest for heaven has to involve condemning and punishing all non-believers. Ooooh. There's a whole lotta guilt driving these people.

Personally, I think we humans have got this creator thing all wrong. With the Hubble Telescope we now know that the universe is much more than just the patch of earth we can see along with a couple of big things in the sky and lots of twinkly little lights with occasional fireworks like comets and meteors etc. It's clearly more than 6 days work for anyone, especially if it's supposed to have been well thought out.

Evangelicals credit Jehovah with "Intelligent design". Any intelligent designer would have done something to prevent the nearly constant warfare within the human species. It doesn't have to be the way it is. We should admit that our religions are just an enabling mechanism for whatever it is we really want to do in the first place.

The ancient Mesopotamian/Greco/Roman pagans had a different church for everything from farming to war to sex. An alchoholic worshipped Bacchus. A sex addict worshipped Ishtar and visited her temple often. Whoo Whoo. Those Babylonians had ALL the fun.

Evangelicals insist that the last creative thing Jehovah did was to come to this planet and create us, a special species unrelated to all other species, and that we are all obligated to spend eternity, 24/7, mollifying him. Sorry, but that's just way too human of him. He didn't go to all the trouble of creating the universe just to have us pay lip service to him and money to his reps.

HUMANS want to be revered. Jehovah, The Creator of the universe doesn't need it. He created the universe for his own pleasure. I do not believe he holds the creation against us like the mother who says "I carried your for nine months!" Every kid who ever heard that replied "Yeah? Well I didn't ask to be born!"

I do believe in the historical Jesus. I can picture his blood soaked crucifixion. He has to fight for every breath, and every breath only prolongs his agony. At the very end his Divinity gives him a flash of 20/20 foresight and, unheard, he whispers "Boy, this is gonna sell a lot of T shirts."

Any intelligent designer would have made sure the priestly class never arose in the first place. They have brought us to what we are today as a species; God's warriors riding the ragged edge of mass extinction.

I believe that heaven and hell can be best defined as connection with God and separation from God (respectively). I do not believe that God is interested in torturing any person for all eternity, not in the sense that man seems to rely on (i.e., a physical place of eternal demonic torment). Merely being aware that one is cut off from god is enough to torture a soul. Those who do His will can be "in His presence," that is, in Heaven (whatever that turns out to be - I have a few ideas), while those who do not (unrepentant criminals, abusers of self and others, etc.) must perish. I think that before they go, they must realize their fate. And if there was ever torture, that is it. And the thing is, those people will have no one to blame but themselves, and they'll know it.
Then, as the writer says, they will be no more, and be remembered no more, and all pain and suffering will pass away. (that's the gist, I'm not a Bible scholar who can quote you chapter and verse)
If we cut ourselves off from God, we perish. THAT is hell. Thanks for asking the question.

heres the kicker folks

you couldnt die if you wanted to...

at the moment of death and the cessation of physical function, decomposition begins...

during the lengthy process, like elements assimilate with like elements of the surrounding environment

the solid substances of your body assimilate with the solid substances, liquids with liquids, gasses with gasses...

now if your up keeping up with what is considered SCIENCE, you would be keenly aware of the fact that a perfect copy of all sensory experience is kept in the deep in the subconcious....

the very fact that it is so difficult to ascertain its existance is due to its extremely low energetic value...

this is in direct relation to the electromagnetic spectrum which is infinite in dimension...

another words this cannot assimilate with the environment for the simple fact that the particular frequencey is devoid of counterpart...

think oil and water folks, and those are both liquids let alone....

so heres the thing you can imagine there is nothing beyond cessation of physical function, thats fine, youl be alright in the long run..

but it simply is not the case

you know as a squad leader in the Marines i used to tell my boys, hey its what you dont prepare for that catches you with your pants down

if you prepare for nothing, you will be prepared for nothing.....

i have no external religion, my religion is my own, and i know this for certain, God,

doesnt care what you practice, God knows whats in your heart, for simply God is part and parcel of every heart, every thought...it bring to light the Islamic definition

omnipotent
omniscient
and so on and so forth, this is not a function in and of itself, it is not human althougt humans are part of its entirety

it is the sum total of all functions that have ever occured because as you know, time does not exist it is only a Human frame of reference to put our lives of events in sequence into perspective...

everything is has and will be happening right now...

heres a fun little excericese

il bet you think you know who you are?

close your eyes and try to find yourself...
as you watch each and EVERY thought, and sensation pass alone your awareness and you identify it, eventually your come to question, alright well then who in fact is the one IDENTIFYING?

go ahead, what are you afraid of? what youl find is that what you term YOU is simply a reflective aparatus devoid of any semblance of what you had really considered you after all....guess what, EVERYONE IS PRECISELY THE SAME..

this aparatus is the same on dogs, cats, rats and worms...

the only difference is the capabality of the host organsim...

you see, a man smells touches hears can see and think for the simple reason that he has skin nerves, ears eyes and a well developed brain. hahah
it has nothing to do with the sensations reflected from phenomenon in our surrouding environment

go ahead and debate, its futile unless you actully try to find yourself...

that is who we really are, all of us,
from the formation of our first sense (hearing)
this aparatus reflects the sound.
at this point the illusion of duality and the ego begin its formation.

the object is apprehended as causing pleasure or suffering to one degree or another

from that point on from the way you stand in line, to the way you drink your coffee to the
the way your telling yourself not to believe what your reading even tho it rings true
represents an attempt to increase pleasure, and decrease suffering to a greater or lesser degree.

yes even the one who dedicates theyre life to helping others for the purpose of the pleasures of heaven.......

to the multimillionaire to the deranged murderer
the only difference is in the length of time one is willing to wait for gratification....

the thing is the more you associate happiness with external phenomenon the further you get to the truth....you see all things rise and fall

your heart beat, your breath, the days, the months, the seasons, the mountains, that new car you just bought, so if you base happiness on something external you will be relegated to suffering in the long or short term..

of all the things you buy, did you ever wonder who it was that actually experianced the happiness? only you friend, the car cant do it for you...it resides in you....

now that you are enlightened go ahead and look for the real you, the one that is has been and always will be sitting right there waiting to be refound...then friend you will know true happiness..

skeptical? Maybe you see the correlation with pyschiatric illness and increased income as a coincidence?

go ahead friend get lost in the illusion, youl find your way out, its a given

in this lifetime or the next

you see, you cant die, you never could, and never can...

so youve read it, you can accept the truth and start clearing away the debris that is hindering you...or you can wait as many eons as you need to..

ya i procrastinate to bro i know what your dealin with.....

its like one man who on the edge of the cliff is paralyzed in fear, the other casually admires the view,

the cliff is not fear, the cliff is a cliff
fear is fearful, anxiety is anxious, depression is depressed,
and happiness is happy and the only place these things can be found studied or experianced is within

so for all the "objective" science talk, it is wise to kindly remember that from birth unto "death" ever 4 some odd billion human biengs, all that have come and all that will pass
spend the ENTIRE life in subjective experiance....

keep ignoring it
go ahead yell at yourself in the mirror, argue with your reflection, tell it its not your reflection, doesnt change the angry lad staring right back at you...

there is no duality in anything whatsoever...
there no cold, nor is there such a thing as dark...
only the absence of heat and the absence of cold

by the way this is "scientific" fact....

or maybe you are fond of Darwin, you see, i was confused about 4 months ago and i was searching for answers....

so i studied evolution..and i realized something...
the only people that believe in evolution are people who dont know SH#$T about it....

i share DNA with a Dandilion...
hmm i must have come from the same thing...
what people fail to realize is the random evolutionary process is apparent in absolutely
everything that mankind has ever or ever will create
from chinese calculators to pentium processors, to the chair your sitting on...

would you call that random?

even Darwin didnt believe it (this is "historical" fact)

i prefer to regard it as more hysterical tho..

or let this sit for a minute

there is a CAUSE for absolutely every EFFECT
except for the cause of all causes and effects, you see withing this swirling mass of apparent
separte entities is the fact that all is contained within the entiretey of all actions an reactions

one big old chunk of nothing that looks and smells like a whole lot of somethins for the simple reason that you got eyes and a nose that
can percieve and imagine something "external" hahah

go ahead try to find yourself..

if you argue this and you havnt tried your not fooling anyone....

you wont find anyone...then whos lookin right?

IM HERE...oh wait no thats only an itch....HERE...
no thats only memory...shoot.....where am i...

im gettin angry...oh no, anger is only a sensation......

and your going to believe some astrogenticbioquantumnologist who cant even touch his toes? you mean your going to accept the explanation of existance from a human being who hasnt even begun to master the existance the aggreates whom he identifies as his?

that could be likened to betting your life on the racer who can only turn the ignition of his car, has barely driven it and hasnt a clue what the track even looks like because hes been too busy studying how to turn the key...

take that literally....

all your answers are within, all you have to do is look,

how much better can that get? you know the truth, you always have....
who better to tell you the truth than yourself? is that not appealing? what can possibly be the problem?

you dont have to study any other mans text, or perform his rituals if you so choose (although each one will lead you to the same place)

or you can write back angry, barking up a tree that doesnt exist....

good luck on your journey, i hope its starts sooner rather than later but i know itl be alright..

im in the middle of mine, and being mister Male Chauvanist Kung Fu Master Ego Supreme Marine
Corp Sniper boy that i am

my plate is full....

good bye

<a href="http://fake-lipitor.salemega.info/

THE WORST WAY OF CALLING NAME TO THE ALMIGHTY CREATOR:
When Christians say that Jesus(A.S) was the only BEGOTTEN and not MADE like Adam (A.S) or like all other creatures or creations?
What are you insinuating??? That God Almighty Him self came down to perform the lowest form of animal act like dog, donkey or monkey,i.e., sexual reproduction?
And on top of it Jesus(A.S) was His begotten son not ligitimate!!!!!!!!!!
THAT IS THE WORST KIND OF ABUSE AND NAMING ANY BODY COULD HAVE DIRECTED TOWARDS THE GOD ALMIGHTY!!
Well down CHRISTIAN believers??
You are getting your rewards in this world and will definitely get infinitely here after!!!!!!

Live by Faith, Not by Sight.

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I've often wondered if belief in an afterlife is some kind of psychological defense mechanism against our own mortality. It's a basic fact of nature that all living things will eventually die, from the most primitive one-celled organism to human beings. Like all other animals, we try to avoid death. Yet, because of our intelligence we realize that we WILL eventually die. Therefore, it seems reasonable that we would create stories to reassure ourselves that our lives will extend beyond the inevitability of physical death. Of course there's no escaping the reality that we are living things, made up of the same matter and subject to the same physical processes as other mammals. There's little reason to think we should live forever simply because of our complex intelligence, anymore than a gorilla is more likely to live forever than a cockroach. This doesn't necessarily mean life is meaningless, as some believers seem to think. Something doesn't have to last forever to be meaningful, and I would argue that our lives are meaningful precisely BECAUSE they are limited. It's that sense of time that gives people a motivation to seize the day, to cherish the little things, and to appreciate time spent with loved ones.

In my life today im not sure what to believe in heaven or hell. But i do beliee in a heaven where you meet Jesus and God and be welcomed to a new life. In life in hell im not 100% doubting that there is a hell but if you were to go there and it is as bad as people describe it that would be life threating from what the stuff they would do to you. I hope if there is a heaven or hell i would hope i bring my life into heaven.

In my life today im not sure what to believe in heaven or hell. But i do beliee in a heaven where you meet Jesus and God and be welcomed to a new life. In life in hell im not 100% doubting that there is a hell but if you were to go there and it is as bad as people describe it that would be life threating from what the stuff they would do to you. I hope if there is a heaven or hell i would hope i bring my life into heaven.